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Who are we even trying to build around?

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Who should we build around?

Randle
6
15%
Barrett
10
24%
Obi and iq
4
10%
Elfrid Payton
8
20%
Other
13
32%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#21 » by Im Coming Home » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:07 am

just trolling not having a Big Meech option.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#22 » by DowNY » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:52 am

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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#23 » by Davis18 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:09 am

There is nobody to build around at the moment.
I hoped RJ would show improvements to become center piece of initial rebuild stage.
We should just implement defense and ball moving offense system if any until we either draft or trade for one.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#24 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:29 am

Mitch is the only player I can see having an impact as a starter on a winning team, and he's so very limited offensively. Our best player would probably be the worst offensive talent on a playoff team.

I think Randle is a 6th man on a good team. He's a difficult player to build around, and he's not conducive to having an offense that flows. He needs to be featured, and he's just not dynamic enough to carry a team to the playoffs imo.

RJ hasn't played well but I'll reserve judgement until year 3. He reworked his shot this past off-season so I want to see what it looks like after a year of reps. His scoring has been abysmal but he's contributing in other facets of the game. Still, not looking like someone you build around right now.

The Knicks are going absolutely nowhere. We don't target the right players in the draft, and as if that wasn't enough, we then put them in a position to fail by having them play alongside career-loser veterans with duplicate skill sets, meaning they cannot co-exist.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#25 » by vallen » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 am

K-DOT wrote:The plan isn't to build around Randle, clearly. That's why we drafted Obi, whose main thing was being so good right out the gates he didn't need to develop

The plan also isn't to build around RJ, as we've done nothing to fix the spacing issues and continued to bring back Payton, who is the absolute worst possible fit for him at PG

We're not trying to build around anyone. We're not trying to tank and draft a top tier guy, either. We're in a sort of limbo where our young guys aren't good enough to justify building around, and our vets have never been core pieces on good teams. So we're sort of just meandering through life. Kind of like Kings East, with our ceiling being Magic North.



Who says Obi doesnt need to be developed? We saw Ball coming off the Bench just last night. Thats what real development is. People love to compare RJ to Jimmy Butler. Butler came off the bench. Development isnt drafting Lottery pics and throwing them in the pool to learn how to swim. Such a 2K mentality. Having depth is part of building a cohesive team.

RJ needs to take the blame for his own poor performances. Payton isnt out there blocking his wide open shots and crappy fade aways. No PG is going to help that. RJ needs to fix RJ.

A trade to get Randle real help would be better than meandering through life like the Kings and having a ceiling like the Magic. Beause those are 2 of a handful of teams in the Lotto for decades without anything to show for it. We have pieces, the mecca, and a coach to be better than that.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#26 » by prophet_of_rage » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:30 am

vallen wrote:
K-DOT wrote:The plan isn't to build around Randle, clearly. That's why we drafted Obi, whose main thing was being so good right out the gates he didn't need to develop

The plan also isn't to build around RJ, as we've done nothing to fix the spacing issues and continued to bring back Payton, who is the absolute worst possible fit for him at PG

We're not trying to build around anyone. We're not trying to tank and draft a top tier guy, either. We're in a sort of limbo where our young guys aren't good enough to justify building around, and our vets have never been core pieces on good teams. So we're sort of just meandering through life. Kind of like Kings East, with our ceiling being Magic North.



Who says Obi doesnt need to be developed? We saw Ball coming off the Bench just last night. Thats what real development is. People love to compare RJ to Jimmy Butler. Butler came off the bench. Development isnt drafting Lottery pics and throwing them in the pool to learn how to swim. Such a 2K mentality. Having depth is part of building a cohesive team.

RJ needs to take the blame for his own poor performances. Payton isnt out there blocking his wide open shots and crappy fade aways. No PG is going to help that. RJ needs to fix RJ.

A trade to get Randle real help would be better than meandering through life like the Kings and having a ceiling like the Magic. Beause those are 2 of a handful of teams in the Lotto for decades without anything to show for it. We have pieces, the mecca, and a coach to be better than that.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#27 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:40 am

vallen wrote:
K-DOT wrote:The plan isn't to build around Randle, clearly. That's why we drafted Obi, whose main thing was being so good right out the gates he didn't need to develop

The plan also isn't to build around RJ, as we've done nothing to fix the spacing issues and continued to bring back Payton, who is the absolute worst possible fit for him at PG

We're not trying to build around anyone. We're not trying to tank and draft a top tier guy, either. We're in a sort of limbo where our young guys aren't good enough to justify building around, and our vets have never been core pieces on good teams. So we're sort of just meandering through life. Kind of like Kings East, with our ceiling being Magic North.



Who says Obi doesnt need to be developed? We saw Ball coming off the Bench just last night. Thats what real development is. People love to compare RJ to Jimmy Butler. Butler came off the bench. Development isnt drafting Lottery pics and throwing them in the pool to learn how to swim. Such a 2K mentality. Having depth is part of building a cohesive team.

RJ needs to take the blame for his own poor performances. Payton isnt out there blocking his wide open shots and crappy fade aways. No PG is going to help that. RJ needs to fix RJ.

A trade to get Randle real help would be better than meandering through life like the Kings and having a ceiling like the Magic. Beause those are 2 of a handful of teams in the Lotto for decades without anything to show for it. We have pieces, the mecca, and a coach to be better than that.

Building around Randle is exactly how you finish like the Kings or the Magic.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#28 » by Are We Ther Yet » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:07 am

Another Scott Perry roster. Poor fitting pieces. Vets no one else wants. Draft picks rotting on the bench to play those vets. A coach who runs players into the ground. No shooting anywhere on the roster. Just a shyt show.

Randle is playing well...and it benefits who exactly? No one but him. Running the offense through a poor shooting PF who is a bench player on a good team. Great plan.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#29 » by Sark » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:14 am

K-DOT wrote:The plan isn't to build around Randle, clearly. That's why we drafted Obi, whose main thing was being so good right out the gates he didn't need to develop

The plan also isn't to build around RJ, as we've done nothing to fix the spacing issues and continued to bring back Payton, who is the absolute worst possible fit for him at PG

We're not trying to build around anyone. We're not trying to tank and draft a top tier guy, either. We're in a sort of limbo where our young guys aren't good enough to justify building around, and our vets have never been core pieces on good teams. So we're sort of just meandering through life. Kind of like Kings East, with our ceiling being Magic North.



Basically this

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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#30 » by Dubious Handles » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:00 am

I don't know which direction the team is heading, but for me personally im just enjoying Julius' play. He has been stellar and dazzling fans wolrdwide with his offensive prowess and improved play.

ps. Its blatantly obvious that RJ has to come off the bench for this unit. Julius is miles ahead any player on the team and we should rightfully cater to him. The logical conclusion is to send RJ to the bench and cater to his strengths. He tends to play well with the bench guys. That way, Julius mans the starting unit while inserting an extra shooter (Knox?) to the lineup while RJ has the freedom to play his style off the bench.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#31 » by cgf » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:19 pm

vallen wrote:
K-DOT wrote:The plan isn't to build around Randle, clearly. That's why we drafted Obi, whose main thing was being so good right out the gates he didn't need to develop

The plan also isn't to build around RJ, as we've done nothing to fix the spacing issues and continued to bring back Payton, who is the absolute worst possible fit for him at PG

We're not trying to build around anyone. We're not trying to tank and draft a top tier guy, either. We're in a sort of limbo where our young guys aren't good enough to justify building around, and our vets have never been core pieces on good teams. So we're sort of just meandering through life. Kind of like Kings East, with our ceiling being Magic North.



Who says Obi doesnt need to be developed? We saw Ball coming off the Bench just last night. Thats what real development is. People love to compare RJ to Jimmy Butler. Butler came off the bench. Development isnt drafting Lottery pics and throwing them in the pool to learn how to swim. Such a 2K mentality. Having depth is part of building a cohesive team.

RJ needs to take the blame for his own poor performances. Payton isnt out there blocking his wide open shots and crappy fade aways. No PG is going to help that. RJ needs to fix RJ.

A trade to get Randle real help would be better than meandering through life like the Kings and having a ceiling like the Magic. Beause those are 2 of a handful of teams in the Lotto for decades without anything to show for it. We have pieces, the mecca, and a coach to be better than that.


If a prospect needs to be developed, what's even the point? Might as well just trade all of our picks if all we're going to do is waste them on bums who can't even make the Allstar game as rookies.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#32 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#33 » by K-DOT » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:36 pm

vallen wrote:Who says Obi doesnt need to be developed?

Lot of people, actually

It was a pretty common refrain from when it was just a rumor we were looking at him to go "we should take him cause he's older and more polished, no waiting 2-3 years before he's ready" and people were saying he was gonna be the clear RotY because he would be so much better right away due to being more developed

vallen wrote:We saw Ball coming off the Bench just last night.

I'm sorry for not automatically assuming the Hornets are a model of player development?

Also, Lamelo will still be younger than Obi is right now when he's finished with his 4th season. Let me know if he's still coming off the bench to develop then.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#34 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:43 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#35 » by god shammgod » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:50 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


at the very least he's playing as well as sabonis. people are saying he can't keep this up basically and are willing to take whatever right now on the chance they're right. i look at it as the opposite, i would rather keep him and see what happens than cash in for a non-lotterry pick that likely won't be sh*t. if i'm wrong i miss out on less than i would if i was right.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#36 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:58 pm

god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


at the very least he's playing as well as sabonis. people are saying he can't keep this up basically and are willing to take whatever right now on the chance they're right. i look at it as the opposite, i would rather keep him and see what happens than cash in for a non-lotterry pick that likely won't be sh*t. if i'm wrong i miss out on less than i would if i was right.

Pretty much. I think we had enough of Frank’s and Knox’s.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#37 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


If the goal is to build a contender, then I think its going to be even more difficult to build that kind of team around Randle as a top 2 or 3 option. He's not really an easy guy to fit around. If we make that commitment its just gonna be tough to bring in the right fitting pieces and we will also have to pay him in 1 1/2 years. Just seems like we would be spinning our wheels and treading water at best.

As good as Randle is playing he is still nowhere in Jokic's league. KP? It really depends if he can stay healthy and get better. But his skill set is easier to build around since he protects the rim and spaces the floor better. Don't really want to defend KP right now and he may prove not worthy of the contract.

As far as Randle, he does look much better and on the right team can win. But from what we are starting with its gonna be real hard to do and think long term we are better off going in another direction
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#38 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:10 pm

god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


at the very least he's playing as well as sabonis. people are saying he can't keep this up basically and are willing to take whatever right now on the chance they're right. i look at it as the opposite, i would rather keep him and see what happens than cash in for a non-lotterry pick that likely won't be sh*t. if i'm wrong i miss out on less than i would if i was right.


Granted we are not gonna be trading Randle anytime soon. But 1 1/2 years from now is it gonna be a good decision to throw the bag at Randle? We will probably wait it out and see what happens, but I am just looking ahead to that point. At the least we probably do keep Randle as a bridge/gap. That does have some positives and negatives though.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#39 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:22 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Yea, we really don’t have anyone to build around but maybe some players to build with. Everyone should available for the right deal. One major issue is we have players that require specific types of lineups built around them, but together it just doesn’t work right.

Keep...for now:
-Mitch (elite defender that can be very valuable and is plug and play…lock him up for the right price)
-RJ (shooting is a concern, but give him time to see if he can improve)
-Quickley (promising signs and should be a shooter which we need)

Wait and see:
-Obi (didn’t like the pick but lets see what he can do)

Value so low might as well hold:
-Frank (maybe can be a 3D guy)
-Knox (showing signs here and there)

Sell:
-Randle (he's playing great no doubt. But we are probably better off cashing in if we can and moving on)
-everyone else.

Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


If the goal is to build a contender, then I think its going to be even more difficult to build that kind of team around Randle as a top 2 or 3 option. He's not really an easy guy to fit around. If we make that commitment its just gonna be tough to bring in the right fitting pieces and we will also have to pay him in 1 1/2 years. Just seems like we would be spinning our wheels and treading water at best.

As good as Randle is playing he is still nowhere in Jokic's league. KP? It really depends if he can stay healthy and get better. But his skill set is easier to build around since he protects the rim and spaces the floor better. Don't really want to defend KP right now and he may prove not worthy of the contract.

As far as Randle, he does look much better and on the right team can win. But from what we are starting with its gonna be real hard to do and think long term we are better off going in another direction

Don’t see why he can’t fit on a contender. The guy is a scoring machine, plays defense now, and a great facilitator. If guys like Sabonis and Jokic can have big roles on playoffs teams then so can Randle. He basically does the same things as them.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#40 » by cgf » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:26 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


at the very least he's playing as well as sabonis. people are saying he can't keep this up basically and are willing to take whatever right now on the chance they're right. i look at it as the opposite, i would rather keep him and see what happens than cash in for a non-lotterry pick that likely won't be sh*t. if i'm wrong i miss out on less than i would if i was right.

Pretty much. I think we had enough of Frank’s and Knox’s.

Why not both? It's not like we're overflowing with talent to put around Julius that isn't getting PT because we're forcing kids onto the floor. So why not develop what kids we do have to see if we can't build a supporting cast for him while keeping Julius unless the combination of Toppin's development & a genuinely enticing offer for him, make trading him the better option?

Feels like a lot people on both sides of this one are in a hurry to solve problems that a) we don't even know for sure are problems yet, and that b) we don't have to solve right-the-f***-now.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.

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