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Who are we even trying to build around?

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Who should we build around?

Randle
6
16%
Barrett
10
27%
Obi and iq
3
8%
Elfrid Payton
8
22%
Other
10
27%
 
Total votes: 37

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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#41 » by F N 11 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

DaGawd wrote:
F N 11 wrote:RJ is partially looking bad as a spot up shooter out of sync with This being Payton’s and Randle team. Another year same old Knicks different toilet because the coach is better.

A player who thrives with ball in his hands don’t have the ball in his hands. Go figure we can try to mask it with wins but It’s either RJ and co or Payton/Randle and co. Choose one and ride with it.

He has the ball plenty.. he just doesn’t do **** with it half the time

Oh you mean the few sequences after Payton and Randle done getting theirs in? It’s a bad fit. Choose rebuilding or win now with your vets. Can’t have it both ways. Been doing it the past 4 years.
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amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#42 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:42 pm

F N 11 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
F N 11 wrote:RJ is partially looking bad as a spot up shooter out of sync with This being Payton’s and Randle team. Another year same old Knicks different toilet because the coach is better.

A player who thrives with ball in his hands don’t have the ball in his hands. Go figure we can try to mask it with wins but It’s either RJ and co or Payton/Randle and co. Choose one and ride with it.

He has the ball plenty.. he just doesn’t do **** with it half the time

Oh you mean the few sequences after Payton and Randle done getting theirs in? It’s a bad fit. Choose rebuilding or win now with your vets. Can’t have it both ways. Been doing it the past 4 years.

That’s cap. He’s getting 17 shots per game. You want him to shoot 30 times?
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#43 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Not surprising the same people who’s making excuses for RJ being garbage are the same ones who made excuses for Frank sucking. I’ve seen this story already.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#44 » by F N 11 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:46 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:He has the ball plenty.. he just doesn’t do **** with it half the time

Oh you mean the few sequences after Payton and Randle done getting theirs in? It’s a bad fit. Choose rebuilding or win now with your vets. Can’t have it both ways. Been doing it the past 4 years.

That’s cap. He’s getting 17 shots per game. You want him to shoot 30 times?

I want him to get touches even if he’s just moving the ball. Payton pounding it for 20 seconds does not help anyone. The one consistent since Payton has been thrown in there is ball movement has not been as good since preseason. Payton is an issue for everyone on this team.
Ntilikina/Knox/Mitch/RJ ARMY
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#45 » by DaGawd » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pm

F N 11 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Oh you mean the few sequences after Payton and Randle done getting theirs in? It’s a bad fit. Choose rebuilding or win now with your vets. Can’t have it both ways. Been doing it the past 4 years.

That’s cap. He’s getting 17 shots per game. You want him to shoot 30 times?

I want him to get touches even if he’s just moving the ball. Payton pounding it for 20 seconds does not help anyone. The one consistent since Payton has been thrown in there is ball movement has not been as good since preseason. Payton is an issue for everyone on this team.

Every year the fans choose somebody to scapegoat.. then that scapegoat leaves and we still suck we move on to another scapegoat. I’m not a Payton fan.. but he isn’t the reason R sucks
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#46 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:53 pm

F N 11 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Oh you mean the few sequences after Payton and Randle done getting theirs in? It’s a bad fit. Choose rebuilding or win now with your vets. Can’t have it both ways. Been doing it the past 4 years.

That’s cap. He’s getting 17 shots per game. You want him to shoot 30 times?

I want him to get touches even if he’s just moving the ball. Payton pounding it for 20 seconds does not help anyone. The one consistent since Payton has been thrown in there is ball movement has not been as good since preseason. Payton is an issue for everyone on this team.

Payton isn’t holding back RJ and I hate Payton the most. You’re basically saying RJ should ball hog more and continue to chuck up shots.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#47 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:06 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:That’s cap. He’s getting 17 shots per game. You want him to shoot 30 times?

I want him to get touches even if he’s just moving the ball. Payton pounding it for 20 seconds does not help anyone. The one consistent since Payton has been thrown in there is ball movement has not been as good since preseason. Payton is an issue for everyone on this team.

Payton isn’t holding back RJ and I hate Payton the most. You’re basically saying RJ should ball hog more and continue to chuck up shots.

Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#48 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
F N 11 wrote:I want him to get touches even if he’s just moving the ball. Payton pounding it for 20 seconds does not help anyone. The one consistent since Payton has been thrown in there is ball movement has not been as good since preseason. Payton is an issue for everyone on this team.

Payton isn’t holding back RJ and I hate Payton the most. You’re basically saying RJ should ball hog more and continue to chuck up shots.

Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.

If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#49 » by cgf » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:29 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Payton isn’t holding back RJ and I hate Payton the most. You’re basically saying RJ should ball hog more and continue to chuck up shots.

Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.

If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.


Randle also has a lot more experience than RJ and having a better understanding of the league & how the game is played in this league, makes it easier to adapt to suboptimal situations...especially when you've previously gotten to figure out what you can do in a better environment before having to figure out how to transfer that to a worse one.

RJ's struggling with his 3ball regardless of all that, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be handling this situation as well as Randle. Barrett was the right pick at #3 in that class...despite my having been very high on Hunter, Garland & Little...but he's not a generational prospect. He came with some assembly required.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#50 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:30 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Payton isn’t holding back RJ and I hate Payton the most. You’re basically saying RJ should ball hog more and continue to chuck up shots.

Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.

If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.

I know you're not defending Payton, but I think you're underestimating the negative impact that he has on some of the players on the team.

Randle is more skilled and more efficient than Payton and RJ, he's getting his but how this line-up is set up with all 3 on the court is simply not conducive to winning. Credit to Randle for being productive. Just because RJ can't doesn't mean that Payton isn't hurting him (and vice versa but who is our priority).

I'm not saying that Payton is what's preventing RJ from hitting wide open jumpshots or missing bunnies at the rim. That's on him 100%. But RJ would be more efficient playing with a point guard who can shoot and who can play within the flow of an offense. I'm not saying he would be efficient, but he would be more efficient.

It's not limited to RJ. Mitch also suffers from having a point guard who's not a threat to shoot from 3 out the PNR. Payton highlights their limitations, and these limitations belong to them, but these limitations could be minimized with a professional point guard while they work on improving their game.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#51 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:32 pm

cgf wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.

If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.


Randle also has a lot more experience than RJ and having a better understanding of the league & how the game is played in this league, makes it easier to adapt to suboptimal situations...especially when you've previously gotten to figure out what you can do in a better environment before having to figure out how to transfer that to a worse environment.

RJ's struggling with his 3ball regardless of all that, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be handling this situation as well as Randle. Barrett was the right pick at #3 in that class...despite my having been very high on Hunter, Garland & Little...but he's not a generational prospect. He came with some assembly required.

He needs to come off the bench. Him playing a bunch of minutes and chucking up shots isn’t doing him any good.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#52 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:35 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Payton is absolutely holding back RJ (and Mitch too). To some extent at least.

He's not what's preventing RJ from being a good player, as RJ's struggles as a young player are mostly on RJ, but he's definitely making life more difficult for RJ.

Payton is ball-dominant which limits RJ's opportunities to run pick-and-roll (his best attribute coming out of Duke), and when RJ does run plays the spacing is the worst in the entire NBA, which means less space for drives, more congested lanes and fewer kick-out options.

At the end of the day, their skill sets are repetitive. They both hurt the team with their inability to make jumpshots. They simply can't play together, so the Knicks need to make a choice.

If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.

I know you're not defending Payton, but I think you're underestimating the negative impact that he has on some of the players on the team.

Randle is more skilled and more efficient than Payton and RJ, he's getting his but how this line-up is set up with all 3 on the court is simply not conducive to winning. Credit to Randle for being productive. Just because RJ can't doesn't mean that Payton isn't hurting him (and vice versa but who is our priority).

I'm not saying that Payton is what's preventing RJ from hitting wide open jumpshots or missing bunnies at the rim. That's on him 100%. But RJ would be more efficient playing with a point guard who can shoot and who can play within the flow of an offense. I'm not saying he would be efficient, but he would be more efficient.

It's not limited to RJ. Mitch also suffers from having a point guard who's not a threat to shoot from 3 out the PNR. Payton highlights their limitations, and these limitations belong to them, but these limitations could be minimized with a professional point guard while they work on improving their game.

RJ is even struggling next to guys like Quickley and Rivers. Guy who are threats to shoot from 3. I just think RJ needs to come off the bench... he sucks all around. I don’t think a better point guard is going to drastically improve his performance.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#53 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:41 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Why are we selling on a young all star though? If it was Jokic or KP would you still trade them? Considering they’re in the same age group and similar production.


If the goal is to build a contender, then I think its going to be even more difficult to build that kind of team around Randle as a top 2 or 3 option. He's not really an easy guy to fit around. If we make that commitment its just gonna be tough to bring in the right fitting pieces and we will also have to pay him in 1 1/2 years. Just seems like we would be spinning our wheels and treading water at best.

As good as Randle is playing he is still nowhere in Jokic's league. KP? It really depends if he can stay healthy and get better. But his skill set is easier to build around since he protects the rim and spaces the floor better. Don't really want to defend KP right now and he may prove not worthy of the contract.

As far as Randle, he does look much better and on the right team can win. But from what we are starting with its gonna be real hard to do and think long term we are better off going in another direction

Don’t see why he can’t fit on a contender. The guy is a scoring machine, plays defense now, and a great facilitator. If guys like Sabonis and Jokic can have big roles on playoffs teams then so can Randle. He basically does the same things as them.

Randle still isn't a good defender. He's neutral at best, with some overly theatrical defensive plays that I believe give the impression that he's become more invested on that side of the ball. His effort is lackadaisical at times.

Randle would probably be a 6th man on a contender.

He's a scoring machine but he gets his points in a way that slows the offense down. He needs to be featured to have an impact. Now how many playoff teams would make space for him and run plays through him as a first or second option? How many playoff teams would give him the usage that his production seems to demand? I don't think too many.

Randle is in that Boogie, Vucevic, David Lee tier in my opinion. Unfortunately, because of the way the team is set up with three additional non-shooters in the starting line-up, it's impossible to know how Randle would function in a healthier system, which makes imperative that we bench Payton asap and then possibly RJ as well depending on how things go.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#54 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:44 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.

I know you're not defending Payton, but I think you're underestimating the negative impact that he has on some of the players on the team.

Randle is more skilled and more efficient than Payton and RJ, he's getting his but how this line-up is set up with all 3 on the court is simply not conducive to winning. Credit to Randle for being productive. Just because RJ can't doesn't mean that Payton isn't hurting him (and vice versa but who is our priority).

I'm not saying that Payton is what's preventing RJ from hitting wide open jumpshots or missing bunnies at the rim. That's on him 100%. But RJ would be more efficient playing with a point guard who can shoot and who can play within the flow of an offense. I'm not saying he would be efficient, but he would be more efficient.

It's not limited to RJ. Mitch also suffers from having a point guard who's not a threat to shoot from 3 out the PNR. Payton highlights their limitations, and these limitations belong to them, but these limitations could be minimized with a professional point guard while they work on improving their game.

RJ is even struggling next to guys like Quickley and Rivers. Guy who are threats to shoot from 3. I just think RJ needs to come off the bench... he sucks all around. I don’t think a better point guard is going to drastically improve his performance.

I agree that no point guard will drastically improve his level of play. A professional point guard who can shoot would however help him help the team more is my point.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#55 » by cgf » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:45 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
cgf wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:If Randle can figure it out next to RJ and Payton then RJ should be able to as well. Good players always figure it out. RJ is getting a lot of great looks at the rim, mid range shots and wide open 3’s. He simply can’t make anything. It’s really on him bro. You know I hate Payton. I agree spacing would be better without him in the lineup, but we’d even seen plenty of occasions where RJ is out there with the bench unit and he’s still struggling like crazy.


Randle also has a lot more experience than RJ and having a better understanding of the league & how the game is played in this league, makes it easier to adapt to suboptimal situations...especially when you've previously gotten to figure out what you can do in a better environment before having to figure out how to transfer that to a worse environment.

RJ's struggling with his 3ball regardless of all that, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be handling this situation as well as Randle. Barrett was the right pick at #3 in that class...despite my having been very high on Hunter, Garland & Little...but he's not a generational prospect. He came with some assembly required.

He needs to come off the bench. Him playing a bunch of minutes and chucking up shots isn’t doing him any good.


Not sure I agree that it's not doing him any good. He's still showing progress this season defensively, as a rebounder, as a midrange shooter and as a decision-maker with the ball (turnover rate down substantially & assist rate has also increased)...despite the huge minutes, which we've seen causing even Magic to make some tired-decisions...despite struggling with his outside shot & finishing at the rim. So I'm not sure I buy that he isn't gaining valuable experience, even with all of the bricks.

Sharing the court with Elf is a problem, but that's a problem that I think is better solved by sending Elf to the bench...so that Julius & RJ can run the offense with Burks & Rivers/Quickley in the backcourt to keep teams honest...and unfortunately, injuries have forced our hand on this front, else Elf may already be leading the 2nd unit with Quickley/Rivers, Knox, Obi & Noel/Bullock/Frank.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#56 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:52 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
If the goal is to build a contender, then I think its going to be even more difficult to build that kind of team around Randle as a top 2 or 3 option. He's not really an easy guy to fit around. If we make that commitment its just gonna be tough to bring in the right fitting pieces and we will also have to pay him in 1 1/2 years. Just seems like we would be spinning our wheels and treading water at best.

As good as Randle is playing he is still nowhere in Jokic's league. KP? It really depends if he can stay healthy and get better. But his skill set is easier to build around since he protects the rim and spaces the floor better. Don't really want to defend KP right now and he may prove not worthy of the contract.

As far as Randle, he does look much better and on the right team can win. But from what we are starting with its gonna be real hard to do and think long term we are better off going in another direction

Don’t see why he can’t fit on a contender. The guy is a scoring machine, plays defense now, and a great facilitator. If guys like Sabonis and Jokic can have big roles on playoffs teams then so can Randle. He basically does the same things as them.

Randle still isn't a good defender. He's neutral at best, with some overly theatrical defensive plays that I believe give the impression that he's become more invested on that side of the ball. His effort is lackadaisical at times.

Randle would probably be a 6th man on a contender.

He's a scoring machine but he gets his points in a way that slows the offense down. He needs to be featured to have an impact. Now how many playoff teams would make space for him and run plays through him as a first or second option? How many playoff teams would give him the usage that his production seems to demand? I don't think too many.

Randle is in that Boogie, Vucevic, David Lee tier in my opinion. Unfortunately, because of the way the team is set up with three additional non-shooters in the starting line-up, it's impossible to know how Randle would function in a healthier system, which makes imperative that we bench Payton asap and then possibly RJ as well depending on how things go.

If he’s a neutral defender then what does that make Jokic? Horrible? :D

Randle’s usage is being exaggerated. His usage rate is ranked 31 among all the players in the league. Pretty much around the same for his whole career. But the only reason why he’s our #1 option is cause we have nobody else on our team who can create offense. You guys keep ignoring that.

I agree we should still bench Payton and RJ though.

My starting lineup would be

Rivers
Burks
Knox
Randle
Mitch

Got 3 shooters in there and 1 average shooter (Randle).
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SG: Lavine/Dunn
SF: Tatum/TBJ
PF: Bam/ Hart
C: Ayton/Randle


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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#57 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:56 pm

cgf wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
cgf wrote:
Randle also has a lot more experience than RJ and having a better understanding of the league & how the game is played in this league, makes it easier to adapt to suboptimal situations...especially when you've previously gotten to figure out what you can do in a better environment before having to figure out how to transfer that to a worse environment.

RJ's struggling with his 3ball regardless of all that, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be handling this situation as well as Randle. Barrett was the right pick at #3 in that class...despite my having been very high on Hunter, Garland & Little...but he's not a generational prospect. He came with some assembly required.

He needs to come off the bench. Him playing a bunch of minutes and chucking up shots isn’t doing him any good.


Not sure I agree that it's not doing him any good. He's still showing progress this season defensively, as a rebounder, as a midrange shooter and as a decision-maker with the ball (turnover rate down substantially & assist rate has also increased)...despite the huge minutes, which we've seen causing even Magic to make some tired-decisions...despite struggling with his outside shot & finishing at the rim. So I'm not sure I buy that he isn't gaining valuable experience, even with all of the bricks.

Sharing the court with Elf is a problem, but that's a problem that I think is better solved by sending Elf to the bench...so that Julius & RJ can run the offense with Burks & Rivers/Quickley in the backcourt to keep teams honest...and unfortunately, injuries have forced our hand on this front, else Elf may already be leading the 2nd unit with Quickley/Rivers, Knox, Obi & Noel/Bullock/Frank.

I mean literally every stat shows he’s killing our team on both ends. He’s just been awful.

I agree we should still bench Payton regardless, but I’m just saying I don’t think Payton is holding him back in some major way.
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PG: Murray/Schroder
SG: Lavine/Dunn
SF: Tatum/TBJ
PF: Bam/ Hart
C: Ayton/Randle


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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#58 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:01 pm

The Knicks don't have a cornerstone to build around.
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PF: DFS Bjelica Eubanks
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#59 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:05 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Don’t see why he can’t fit on a contender. The guy is a scoring machine, plays defense now, and a great facilitator. If guys like Sabonis and Jokic can have big roles on playoffs teams then so can Randle. He basically does the same things as them.

Randle still isn't a good defender. He's neutral at best, with some overly theatrical defensive plays that I believe give the impression that he's become more invested on that side of the ball. His effort is lackadaisical at times.

Randle would probably be a 6th man on a contender.

He's a scoring machine but he gets his points in a way that slows the offense down. He needs to be featured to have an impact. Now how many playoff teams would make space for him and run plays through him as a first or second option? How many playoff teams would give him the usage that his production seems to demand? I don't think too many.

Randle is in that Boogie, Vucevic, David Lee tier in my opinion. Unfortunately, because of the way the team is set up with three additional non-shooters in the starting line-up, it's impossible to know how Randle would function in a healthier system, which makes imperative that we bench Payton asap and then possibly RJ as well depending on how things go.

If he’s a neutral defender then what does that make Jokic? Horrible? :D

Randle’s usage is being exaggerated. His usage rate is ranked 31 among all the players in the league. Pretty much around the same for his whole career. But the only reason why he’s our #1 option is cause we have nobody else on our team who can create offense. You guys keep ignoring that.

I agree we should still bench Payton and RJ though.

My starting lineup would be

Rivers
Burks
Knox
Randle
Mitch

Got 3 shooters in there and 1 average shooter (Randle).

I didn't mean to say that Randle is a ball-hog. One can definitely justify his usage on this team with the way he's been playing. I'm just not sure which playoff teams would give a player like him this much usage, and I'm not sure how impactful he can be with a lower usage %.

The way he scores his points (most of them anyway) requires usage. He's improved a lot in terms of making quicker reads and quicker decisions but he's still fundamentally a slow player and a methodical scorer. He likes to take his time, take a few dribbles and play bully ball. He's not a catch-and-shoot player, he's not exactly a good cutter, so he needs the ball to put up numbers (at this stage in this career at least).

I'd be fine with moving progressively towards that line-up you mentioned.
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Re: Who are we even trying to build around? 

Post#60 » by dakomish23 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:08 pm

This shouldn't be a question. Time to have some patience for once. Pointless attempt at trying to unlock your cells.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128

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