ImageImageImageImageImage

2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

Moderators: K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK

User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 49,938
And1: 55,033
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1581 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:16 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
If it's mental how can we be sure that won't bleed down to his jumpshot? It's not like he's been a great shooter his entire college career, he had a great shooting year this season. Could it be real, sure, but what if it's not? That is why I'd be worried about drafting him, if we had a team loaded with shooters I'd think differently.

You already know my suggestion is for us to fall out of this range and end up in the lottery :lol: But, if that best case scenario isn't met, I like Bouknight and I think some of his selfish play could be reigned in. He's also more in line with what the Knicks seem to want from their 2 guard, which is shot creation above anything else.

You can't be sure. There is also tons of players who shot great at the college level and ended up being poor shooters in the pros. So the risk is there with all these players. Personally for me, his poor free throw shooting isn't stopping me from taking him.

Bouknight is my #1 target. I don't know if he'll be available in our range though



Poor freethrow shooting doesn't worry me too much if it's a really young guy, in this case I'd be careful because of his age and our spacing issues already amplifying the risk.


I like Bouknight, we usually agree on draft prospects overall.

If we pick Mitchell, hopefully I am right on him lol
Bubble Champions
CavsNation
PG: Murray/Schroder
SG: Lavine/Dunn
SF: Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam/ Tate
C: Ayton/Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records,If it ain't directed directly at me,I don't respect it
User avatar
NoDopeOnSundays
General Manager
Posts: 8,644
And1: 14,753
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1582 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:18 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:You can't be sure. There is also tons of players who shot great at the college level and ended up being poor shooters in the pros. So the risk is there with all these players. Personally for me, his poor free throw shooting isn't stopping me from taking him.

Bouknight is my #1 target. I don't know if he'll be available in our range though



Poor freethrow shooting doesn't worry me too much if it's a really young guy, in this case I'd be careful because of his age and our spacing issues already amplifying the risk.


I like Bouknight, we usually agree on draft prospects overall.

If we pick Mitchell, hopefully I am right on him lol



I wont root against him, and I'd be happy to be wrong about. At the end of the day I'll support the Knicks like a battered wife who believes this time will be different.

Even with all my Randle slander you'll notice I don't actively root against him :lol:
jvsimonetti0514
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,092
And1: 4,320
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1583 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:25 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

He's at 64.1% on ESPN, I know being right is very important when there's less than a 2% difference and both numbers are equally poor. How about I just say "He's not a good freethrow shooter" or do I need to quantify what "good" is?

This is rich, the first post you responded to me in here was me mentioning Mitchell's age, now you're questioning me about why I would bring up Lonzo and Markelle's ages?



Just in case you forgot, which you clearly did. Pointing out Lonzo and Fultz's ages is a pretty obvious next step when my concern about Mitchell and his freethrow shooting at 22 is what led me to post in the first place. You brought up several younger examples, I pointed out their ages, you scream foul :lol: Mitchell will be 23 at the start of the season, his freethrow percentage went down every season of his college career, he is older than the players you mentioned at the same stages and I'm not willing to trust his shot being real because of this, anything else?



So I'm guessing you don't have any examples of an older college player that's a good shooter and not having it translate then right? Unless you've got a good example of this I fail to see why him being older makes his shooting less likely to translate.




Come on man, the post I was responding to posted an entire list of older picks not panning out and I added on what concerned me about Mitchell. Go back and re-read what you were responding to.


Obviously there are older ones who panned out, but the list of duds is shockingly large.


There's inherent risk of drafting any player cuz most of them end up bad. But it when it comes to the olds, for every Wesley Johnson or Obi Toppin drafted too high, there's a FVV, Malcolm Brogdan, and Pascal Siakam that falls cuz they're old. I'm way more worried about Mitchell's height than I am about his age and his free throw shooting. Apparently in 2009, the average free throw % in the NCAA was 69%(nice) but it's the only data I could find on the subject.
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
NewKnicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,009
And1: 470
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1584 » by NewKnicks » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:29 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

What do you see in Scottie Barnes? I don't really get his appeal TBH cuz he's a complete 0 when it comes to scoring the ball.


He already has an NBA body, and is really versatile (he can play point forward in certain situations). He's coming out of a program that produces talent at the next level, and that definitely counts for something. Whatever Leonard Hamilton does down there is working. His players adjust quickly to the NBA game, and are some of the most NBA ready players. He can do it all.. Has the height, incredible wingspan, and athletic ability to compete at the next level. I think his jumpshot is good enough now that with a little coaching could be great (even out to 3 in the NBA) He's 19, and the sky is the limit (in my opinion). He's going to be scary in a few years of good coaching in the NBA.

What can't he do? Serious question if you've seen him play a lot. He's a playmaker with the ball, gets his teammates involved and makes the team better because of it. In my opinion he has one the better all-around games in the whole draft, as I don't see many holes in his game. Plus, his ceiling is limitless at this point.

He's up there at the 6th slot in a lot of mocks (in one of the better drafts in a while) that I see out there, so I'm not the only one who thinks the kid has a bright future.

I would love to get your thoughts breaking down his game, and why you don't think he's been that impressive.


Honestly, it's probably because he kinda reminds me of Noah Vonleh. :lol: No real disagreements about his measurements cuz he's definitely got an NBA body already but I feel like he's super raw offensively. I don't completely disagree with NoDope about free throw shooting having some correlation with a player improving their 3pt% but he's not good at either. I'm also kinda worry that he's just a 4 and nothing else cuz he's only 6'9" and he's not a shot blocker. Don't get more wrong I think he's got a lot to build on but it's going to take a lot of time cuz he's gonna be a major project.

No doubt he's going to be a project, but which 19 year old prospect isn't a project? Look at Patrick Williams. He's definitely still a project, but the Bulls are almost playing him 30 minutes a game as a starter, and he's already having an impact and playing a solid all-around game.

Barnes is definitely not just another 4. How many 4's can play point forward in the league? Randle is one. :lol:

But you're thinking of him differently than his game has suggested. He's a SF at the next level because of his ball-handling and passing ability. He's not going to be a big like Vonleh, where you're expecting him to bang bodies down low with the bigs in the NBA. He's much more skilled at this point than Vonleh ever was. He's actually pretty similar to Patrick Williams, with a better passing game than Williams.

I get your concern with his free throw %, but not every single player out of each draft has to shoot 80% at the line to be an effective shooter out to the 3. If that's the only measurement tool for every prospect, teams are going to be missing out on a lot of talent.

We all have our preferences, but this kid has potential to be a star at the next level. He does everything well already (for a prospect), and the ceiling is the limit. If you check around and look into other evaluators of the draft, I think you'll hear similar things that I've suggest. He's 19 so of course he's not that polished.

I haven't seen him a ton but I have notice that he does most of his damage on the break and I'm not really sure what his role would be in the half court. He was pretty ineffective during the tourney for that exact reason.

I think ideally, his ceiling is draymond green but we all know that Draymonds ability to play the 5 was what made him so special. Since Barnes doesn't have that shot blocking, I'm not sure you can get away with him playing as a center. The only way I can see that working defensively is if he's such a good switcher that rim protection doesn't matter as much. Plus on top of all of that you gotta fix the jumper too.
User avatar
knickstape4ever
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,239
And1: 4,664
Joined: Jul 09, 2014
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1585 » by knickstape4ever » Tue Apr 6, 2021 8:43 pm

-Trade Obi + the Mavs picks to move up
-Draft Bouknight and Mitchell
-Sign Lonzo
-Re-sign Burks, Noel

Lonzo
Bouknight
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Burks
Mitchell
IQ
Noel
Image
User avatar
Knicksfan1992
RealGM
Posts: 11,760
And1: 10,790
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1586 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:14 pm

Barnes is intriguing. He is definitely a project but I think if you're looking in that tier you're better off taking Jalen Johnson. I think he's got a better chance to be a shooter down the line. His high school tape is better. Same type of physique with more rim protection flashes. Obviously you have the character concerns you have to vet out but if you feel confident in the kid as a personality than he's a top 5 talent IMO.
OKC
1. Ben Simmons
2. Blake Griffin
3. Goran Dragic
4. Tim Hardaway Jr.
5. Justise Winslow
6. Delon Wright
7. Cedi Osman
8. DeAndre Bembry
9. Edmond Sumner
10. Donte Divincenzo
11. Jordan Poole
12. Gerald Green
jvsimonetti0514
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,092
And1: 4,320
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1587 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:32 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
He already has an NBA body, and is really versatile (he can play point forward in certain situations). He's coming out of a program that produces talent at the next level, and that definitely counts for something. Whatever Leonard Hamilton does down there is working. His players adjust quickly to the NBA game, and are some of the most NBA ready players. He can do it all.. Has the height, incredible wingspan, and athletic ability to compete at the next level. I think his jumpshot is good enough now that with a little coaching could be great (even out to 3 in the NBA) He's 19, and the sky is the limit (in my opinion). He's going to be scary in a few years of good coaching in the NBA.

What can't he do? Serious question if you've seen him play a lot. He's a playmaker with the ball, gets his teammates involved and makes the team better because of it. In my opinion he has one the better all-around games in the whole draft, as I don't see many holes in his game. Plus, his ceiling is limitless at this point.

He's up there at the 6th slot in a lot of mocks (in one of the better drafts in a while) that I see out there, so I'm not the only one who thinks the kid has a bright future.

I would love to get your thoughts breaking down his game, and why you don't think he's been that impressive.


Honestly, it's probably because he kinda reminds me of Noah Vonleh. :lol: No real disagreements about his measurements cuz he's definitely got an NBA body already but I feel like he's super raw offensively. I don't completely disagree with NoDope about free throw shooting having some correlation with a player improving their 3pt% but he's not good at either. I'm also kinda worry that he's just a 4 and nothing else cuz he's only 6'9" and he's not a shot blocker. Don't get more wrong I think he's got a lot to build on but it's going to take a lot of time cuz he's gonna be a major project.

No doubt he's going to be a project, but which 19 year old prospect isn't a project? Look at Patrick Williams. He's definitely still a project, but the Bulls are almost playing him 30 minutes a game as a starter, and he's already having an impact and playing a solid all-around game.

Barnes is definitely not just another 4. How many 4's can play point forward in the league? Randle is one. :lol:

But you're thinking of him differently than his game has suggested. He's a SF at the next level because of his ball-handling and passing ability. He's not going to be a big like Vonleh, where you're expecting him to bang bodies down low with the bigs in the NBA. He's much more skilled at this point than Vonleh ever was. He's actually pretty similar to Patrick Williams, with a better passing game than Williams.

I get your concern with his free throw %, but not every single player out of each draft has to shoot 80% at the line to be an effective shooter out to the 3. If that's the only measurement tool for every prospect, teams are going to be missing out on a lot of talent.

We all have our preferences, but this kid has potential to be a star at the next level. He does everything well already (for a prospect), and the ceiling is the limit. If you check around and look into other evaluators of the draft, I think you'll hear similar things that I've suggest. He's 19 so of course he's not that polished.

I haven't seen him a ton but I have notice that he does most of his damage on the break and I'm not really sure what his role would be in the half court. He was pretty ineffective during the tourney for that exact reason.

I think ideally, his ceiling is draymond green but we all know that Draymonds ability to play the 5 was what made him so special. Since Barnes doesn't have that shot blocking, I'm not sure you can get away with him playing as a center. The only way I can see that working defensively is if he's such a good switcher that rim protection doesn't matter as much. Plus on top of all of that you gotta fix the jumper too.



You should really reformat this post cuz it's really tough to see your responses but I'll do my best to respond to everything. I'm sorry I just don't really see Barnes as a wing and don't really like the williams comp either. I think he's way more raw than Williams. There was lots of time I saw Williams create a shot for himself and I haven't really seen Barnes do anything of that kinda stuff, but maybe I'm wrong. Is there specific game I should try to track down and find highlights?

Vonleh wasn't really a post big either that's why I made the comp to Barnes. He was a pretty good playmaker the year he was in New York specifically in transition too. I don't need Barnes to shoot 80% from the line but 69% would be nice. (joke intended). 62.1% from the line and 27.5% from three is like really bad. Who knows RJ has been able to turn it around but it's usually pretty tough to do. I don't really like appealing Most draft evaluators thought Obi was a shoe-in for rookie of the year and had Killian Hayes as a top 5 prospect. So I don't really take the appeal to their authority as gospel.
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
jvsimonetti0514
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,092
And1: 4,320
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1588 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:37 pm

Read on Twitter


Not sure if anyone has posted Wasserman's big board yet but here it is
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
8516knicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,028
And1: 521
Joined: May 18, 2017
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1589 » by 8516knicks » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:50 pm

For those who were down on Mikal Bridges in the draft, ESPN has a new poll on top 25 under 25 years of age from Bobby Marks and two others that have him #17. Others of note: Halliburton #21; Lonzo Ball #24; Ayton #20; Edwards #19; Morant #15; and as you probably guessed Doncik #1; Zion #2. Anyone still for Kevin Knox or that other Bridges?
8516knicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,028
And1: 521
Joined: May 18, 2017
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1590 » by 8516knicks » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:53 pm

Pelton had IQ at #24.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 12,381
And1: 7,392
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1591 » by RHODEY » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:55 pm

NewKnicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,009
And1: 470
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1592 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:52 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Honestly, it's probably because he kinda reminds me of Noah Vonleh. :lol: No real disagreements about his measurements cuz he's definitely got an NBA body already but I feel like he's super raw offensively. I don't completely disagree with NoDope about free throw shooting having some correlation with a player improving their 3pt% but he's not good at either. I'm also kinda worry that he's just a 4 and nothing else cuz he's only 6'9" and he's not a shot blocker. Don't get more wrong I think he's got a lot to build on but it's going to take a lot of time cuz he's gonna be a major project.

No doubt he's going to be a project, but which 19 year old prospect isn't a project? Look at Patrick Williams. He's definitely still a project, but the Bulls are almost playing him 30 minutes a game as a starter, and he's already having an impact and playing a solid all-around game.

Barnes is definitely not just another 4. How many 4's can play point forward in the league? Randle is one. :lol:

But you're thinking of him differently than his game has suggested. He's a SF at the next level because of his ball-handling and passing ability. He's not going to be a big like Vonleh, where you're expecting him to bang bodies down low with the bigs in the NBA. He's much more skilled at this point than Vonleh ever was. He's actually pretty similar to Patrick Williams, with a better passing game than Williams.

I get your concern with his free throw %, but not every single player out of each draft has to shoot 80% at the line to be an effective shooter out to the 3. If that's the only measurement tool for every prospect, teams are going to be missing out on a lot of talent.

We all have our preferences, but this kid has potential to be a star at the next level. He does everything well already (for a prospect), and the ceiling is the limit. If you check around and look into other evaluators of the draft, I think you'll hear similar things that I've suggest. He's 19 so of course he's not that polished.

I haven't seen him a ton but I have notice that he does most of his damage on the break and I'm not really sure what his role would be in the half court. He was pretty ineffective during the tourney for that exact reason.

I think ideally, his ceiling is draymond green but we all know that Draymonds ability to play the 5 was what made him so special. Since Barnes doesn't have that shot blocking, I'm not sure you can get away with him playing as a center. The only way I can see that working defensively is if he's such a good switcher that rim protection doesn't matter as much. Plus on top of all of that you gotta fix the jumper too.



You should really reformat this post cuz it's really tough to see your responses but I'll do my best to respond to everything. I'm sorry I just don't really see Barnes as a wing and don't really like the williams comp either. I think he's way more raw than Williams. There was lots of time I saw Williams create a shot for himself and I haven't really seen Barnes do anything of that kinda stuff, but maybe I'm wrong. Is there specific game I should try to track down and find highlights?

Vonleh wasn't really a post big either that's why I made the comp to Barnes. He was a pretty good playmaker the year he was in New York specifically in transition too. I don't need Barnes to shoot 80% from the line but 69% would be nice. (joke intended). 62.1% from the line and 27.5% from three is like really bad. Who knows RJ has been able to turn it around but it's usually pretty tough to do. I don't really like appealing Most draft evaluators thought Obi was a shoe-in for rookie of the year and had Killian Hayes as a top 5 prospect. So I don't really take the appeal to their authority as gospel.


Barnes is definitely going to be a wing in the NBA. He has all the skills to get there. I apologize but I can't get too deep this post. I already posted all the skills that I believe will transfer and make him a really good NBA player. He has a 7'2" wingspan, plays above the rim, has great handles, can run the court, plays elite defense, and is a great shot blocker for his size.

I'm not going to say a player is going to be a bad shooter in the league just because his free throw % isn't great. He's very young, and could easily get better. To say a 19 year old doesn't have much chance to improve is not the right way to evaluate future potential.

I like him a lot, you don't. And that's cool. There isn't one talent evaluator out there that you don't respect? How about Mike Schmitz from ESPN?

I'll post a few vids and you can decide to watch them or not, but again, most evaluators agree with me that he has one of the highest ceilings in this upcoming draft. Obi was a stiff on D on Dayton, Barnes is an elite defender in college. Killian Hayes is a terrible comparison. I thought Killian was too slow and unathletic to make in the NBA. Barnes is fast and super athletic, and a great passer.

Barnes also has won his whole life, and was the main reason FSU was good this year. He's a glue guy that does everything well. He would fit in great with this organization as well, bringing a winning attitude and hard nosed D. Thibs would LOVE him. :lol:








NewKnicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,009
And1: 470
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1593 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:59 pm

RHODEY wrote:


Let's get him! Kid has all the skills the be a good PG in the league, and he puts in the work and wants to be great. I don't think the spotlight in NYC is going to bother him either. He has extreme confidence in his abilities.

Get in the conversation for Barnes/Kispert/Johnson, and then draft Ayo with the second #1.

Most will downplay Kispert, but he's the best shooter in a great draft. He's exactly what the non-shooting Knicks need.
Richard4444
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,276
And1: 2,493
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1594 » by Richard4444 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:06 pm

If you study the past drafts, it's easy to come to the conclusion that drafting a guy named Mitchell is always a wise choice.
NewKnicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,009
And1: 470
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1595 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:13 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
RHODEY wrote:


Let's get him! Kid has all the skills to be a good PG in the league, and he puts in the work and wants to be great. I don't think the spotlight in NYC is going to bother him either. He has extreme confidence in his abilities.

Get in the conversation for Barnes/Kispert/Johnson, and then draft Ayo with the second #1.

Most will downplay Kispert, but he's the best shooter in a great draft. He's exactly what the non-shooting Knicks need.
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 28,877
And1: 17,998
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1596 » by El Poochio » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:15 pm

Jared "Maledon" Butler
New Orleans Pelicans

B: T. Young | G. Hill | J. Harper
B: D. Robinson | G. Trent | B. McLemore
B: P. George | OG Anunoby | J. Holiday
B: J. Crowder | D. Bertans | PJ Tucker
B: A. Davis | D. Theis | A. Baynes

HC: Sim Van Gundy

O: Isolation
D: Social Distancing
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 28,877
And1: 17,998
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1597 » by El Poochio » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:18 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
HEZI wrote:As good as the guard play is in this game, there is no doubt the best player is Suggs and he's just a freshman


Suggs is going to be special. I know that's not groundbreaking analysis, but he's got all the skill, athleticism, and mental makeup to be great. You can tell the kid only wants to win as well. He was crying bigtime after that game.

At this point I'm taking Suggs over Cade. Not that Cade won't be great, I think he will, but Suggs is my #1. If you listen to his interviews, he seems like a really bright kid as well. And I doubt there will be any drama following him either. Seems like a great kid.

For me:

1. Suggs
2. Cade
3. Mobley
4. Green
5. Kominga
6. Scottie Barnes

Even though Kispert could have played better in this game, I still think he's going to be a Duncan Robinson type player. He's got surprisingly good hops, plays solid D, and seems like he also really wants to win. In today's NBA, Kispert type players are invaluable with the ability to shoot the lights out of the gym. He might make it into the top 10 before it's all said and done. Wouldn't surprise me at all.



What do you see in Scottie Barnes? I don't really get his appeal TBH cuz he's a complete 0 when it comes to scoring the ball.


So Barnes = Draymond??
New Orleans Pelicans

B: T. Young | G. Hill | J. Harper
B: D. Robinson | G. Trent | B. McLemore
B: P. George | OG Anunoby | J. Holiday
B: J. Crowder | D. Bertans | PJ Tucker
B: A. Davis | D. Theis | A. Baynes

HC: Sim Van Gundy

O: Isolation
D: Social Distancing
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 12,381
And1: 7,392
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1598 » by RHODEY » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:24 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
RHODEY wrote:


Let's get him! Kid has all the skills to be a good PG in the league, and he puts in the work and wants to be great. I don't think the spotlight in NYC is going to bother him either. He has extreme confidence in his abilities.

Get in the conversation for Barnes/Kispert/Johnson, and then draft Ayo with the second #1.

Most will downplay Kispert, but he's the best shooter in a great draft. He's exactly what the non-shooting Knicks need.


I was high on Kispert until watching him in the TOurnament. Now Im not that excited about him. I see the flaws that others have pointed out and have concerns on whether he'll be able to take advantage of his shooting skills in the NBA. I'd rather take Ayo first.
User avatar
El Poochio
Knicks Forum Jose Cuervo Man
Posts: 28,877
And1: 17,998
Joined: May 19, 2015
Location: Where The Wild Things Are
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1599 » by El Poochio » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:25 pm

Mitchell is billed as a defensive specialist but he has a pretty short wingspan, sure he can lock up his guy but how much is he gonna be a factor in help defense

I guess he can be a Marcus Smart type player for us next to RJ - Randle where you can assign him to defend smaller players

If you think he can reach Donovan Mitchell levels on offense draft him yesterday
New Orleans Pelicans

B: T. Young | G. Hill | J. Harper
B: D. Robinson | G. Trent | B. McLemore
B: P. George | OG Anunoby | J. Holiday
B: J. Crowder | D. Bertans | PJ Tucker
B: A. Davis | D. Theis | A. Baynes

HC: Sim Van Gundy

O: Isolation
D: Social Distancing
jvsimonetti0514
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,092
And1: 4,320
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1600 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:52 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:



You should really reformat this post cuz it's really tough to see your responses but I'll do my best to respond to everything. I'm sorry I just don't really see Barnes as a wing and don't really like the williams comp either. I think he's way more raw than Williams. There was lots of time I saw Williams create a shot for himself and I haven't really seen Barnes do anything of that kinda stuff, but maybe I'm wrong. Is there specific game I should try to track down and find highlights?

Vonleh wasn't really a post big either that's why I made the comp to Barnes. He was a pretty good playmaker the year he was in New York specifically in transition too. I don't need Barnes to shoot 80% from the line but 69% would be nice. (joke intended). 62.1% from the line and 27.5% from three is like really bad. Who knows RJ has been able to turn it around but it's usually pretty tough to do. I don't really like appealing Most draft evaluators thought Obi was a shoe-in for rookie of the year and had Killian Hayes as a top 5 prospect. So I don't really take the appeal to their authority as gospel.


Barnes is definitely going to be a wing in the NBA. He has all the skills to get there. I apologize but I can't get too deep this post. I already posted all the skills that I believe will transfer and make him a really good NBA player. He has a 7'2" wingspan, plays above the rim, has great handles, can run the court, plays elite defense, and is a great shot blocker for his size.

I'm not going to say a player is going to be a bad shooter in the league just because his free throw % isn't great. He's very young, and could easily get better. To say a 19 year old doesn't have much chance to improve is not the right way to evaluate future potential.

I like him a lot, you don't. And that's cool. There isn't one talent evaluator out there that you don't respect? How about Mike Schmitz from ESPN?

I'll post a few vids and you can decide to watch them or not, but again, most evaluators agree with me that he has one of the highest ceilings in this upcoming draft. Obi was a stiff on D on Dayton, Barnes is an elite defender in college. Killian Hayes is a terrible comparison. I thought Killian was too slow and unathletic to make in the NBA. Barnes is fast and super athletic, and a great passer.

Barnes also has won his whole life, and was the main reason FSU was good this year. He's a glue guy that does everything well. He would fit in great with this organization as well, bringing a winning attitude and hard nosed D. Thibs would LOVE him. :lol:









See you disagreed about what a lot of talent evaluators thought of Obi and Hayes! How persuasive would you have been by me just saying well Kevin O Conner thinks Hayes is the best prospect in this draft? Or Zach Lowe thinking Obi's offense is good enough for him to go 1st? It's not a super compelling argument cuz these guys get things wrong all the time. That's why I mentioned those two guys. It's not that Barnes plays anything like them.

Just like how you had legitimate questions about Obi's lateral quickness and Hayes athleticism. I've got questions about Barnes ability to create and the half court, his shooting, and if he has any positionality versatility. Mike Schmitz basically said all the same negative things I said about him and expects Barnes to be a 4 or a small ball 5, that's a bad shooter that struggles in the half court. With that being said, he could easily end up turning into Giannis if he can figure out his offensive game. He's got a great first step and had a sick poster in one of those videos you linked. He's definitely super toolsy but I'm just not sure he's going to figure it out.
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w

Return to New York Knicks