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2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1601 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:39 pm

El Poochio wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Suggs is going to be special. I know that's not groundbreaking analysis, but he's got all the skill, athleticism, and mental makeup to be great. You can tell the kid only wants to win as well. He was crying bigtime after that game.

At this point I'm taking Suggs over Cade. Not that Cade won't be great, I think he will, but Suggs is my #1. If you listen to his interviews, he seems like a really bright kid as well. And I doubt there will be any drama following him either. Seems like a great kid.

For me:

1. Suggs
2. Cade
3. Mobley
4. Green
5. Kominga
6. Scottie Barnes

Even though Kispert could have played better in this game, I still think he's going to be a Duncan Robinson type player. He's got surprisingly good hops, plays solid D, and seems like he also really wants to win. In today's NBA, Kispert type players are invaluable with the ability to shoot the lights out of the gym. He might make it into the top 10 before it's all said and done. Wouldn't surprise me at all.



What do you see in Scottie Barnes? I don't really get his appeal TBH cuz he's a complete 0 when it comes to scoring the ball.


So Barnes = Draymond??


I didn't say that, but I see where he's coming from with that comparison.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1602 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:45 pm

RHODEY wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Let's get him! Kid has all the skills to be a good PG in the league, and he puts in the work and wants to be great. I don't think the spotlight in NYC is going to bother him either. He has extreme confidence in his abilities.

Get in the conversation for Barnes/Kispert/Johnson, and then draft Ayo with the second #1.

Most will downplay Kispert, but he's the best shooter in a great draft. He's exactly what the non-shooting Knicks need.


I was high on Kispert until watching him in the TOurnament. Now Im not that excited about him. I see the flaws that others have pointed out and have concerns on whether he'll be able to take advantage of his shooting skills in the NBA. I'd rather take Ayo first.


He played pretty damn well in the tourney until Baylor came along. He's the best pure shooter in the draft, so if we want someone who we can really on to knock down jumpers, he's the guy. Duncan Robinson is a great comparison.

In regards to Ayo, I doubt he's going to climb that high. I think we'll have a chance to get him with our second #1. If we need to move up to get him, that's fine with me. But don't take him with that first pick.

Glad to hear others are high on Ayo, though. He has all the skills to be a quality PG in the league. I'm excited about his future, and hope we get him one way or another.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1603 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:48 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

You should really reformat this post cuz it's really tough to see your responses but I'll do my best to respond to everything. I'm sorry I just don't really see Barnes as a wing and don't really like the williams comp either. I think he's way more raw than Williams. There was lots of time I saw Williams create a shot for himself and I haven't really seen Barnes do anything of that kinda stuff, but maybe I'm wrong. Is there specific game I should try to track down and find highlights?

Vonleh wasn't really a post big either that's why I made the comp to Barnes. He was a pretty good playmaker the year he was in New York specifically in transition too. I don't need Barnes to shoot 80% from the line but 69% would be nice. (joke intended). 62.1% from the line and 27.5% from three is like really bad. Who knows RJ has been able to turn it around but it's usually pretty tough to do. I don't really like appealing Most draft evaluators thought Obi was a shoe-in for rookie of the year and had Killian Hayes as a top 5 prospect. So I don't really take the appeal to their authority as gospel.


Barnes is definitely going to be a wing in the NBA. He has all the skills to get there. I apologize but I can't get too deep this post. I already posted all the skills that I believe will transfer and make him a really good NBA player. He has a 7'2" wingspan, plays above the rim, has great handles, can run the court, plays elite defense, and is a great shot blocker for his size.

I'm not going to say a player is going to be a bad shooter in the league just because his free throw % isn't great. He's very young, and could easily get better. To say a 19 year old doesn't have much chance to improve is not the right way to evaluate future potential.

I like him a lot, you don't. And that's cool. There isn't one talent evaluator out there that you don't respect? How about Mike Schmitz from ESPN?

I'll post a few vids and you can decide to watch them or not, but again, most evaluators agree with me that he has one of the highest ceilings in this upcoming draft. Obi was a stiff on D on Dayton, Barnes is an elite defender in college. Killian Hayes is a terrible comparison. I thought Killian was too slow and unathletic to make in the NBA. Barnes is fast and super athletic, and a great passer.

Barnes also has won his whole life, and was the main reason FSU was good this year. He's a glue guy that does everything well. He would fit in great with this organization as well, bringing a winning attitude and hard nosed D. Thibs would LOVE him. :lol:









See you disagreed about what a lot of talent evaluators thought of Obi and Hayes! How persuasive would you have been by me just saying well Kevin O Conner thinks Hayes is the best prospect in this draft? Or Zach Lowe thinking Obi's offense is good enough for him to go 1st? It's not a super compelling argument cuz these guys get things wrong all the time. That's why I mentioned those two guys. It's not that Barnes plays anything like them.

Just like how you had legitimate questions about Obi's lateral quickness and Hayes athleticism. I've got questions about Barnes ability to create and the half court, his shooting, and if he has any positionality versatility. Mike Schmitz basically said all the same negative things I said about him and expects Barnes to be a 4 or a small ball 5, that's a bad shooter that struggles in the half court. With that being said, he could easily end up turning into Giannis if he can figure out his offensive game. He's got a great first step and had a sick poster in one of those videos you linked. He's definitely super toolsy but I'm just not sure he's going to figure it out.


Of course talent evaluators get things wrong evaluating players. That goes without saying. If you don't trust any of them, that's fine. The only reason I bring it up, is because MOST of them are high on Barnes. Not just one or two guys. But if you think they all suck, that's fine too. I base his evaluation on my eyes, not what they say.

He's going to be drafted in the top 10 (maybe as high as 6), so NBA GM's obviously are high on the kid as well. If you don't trust any of them, that's okay.

I like him and think the sky's the limit, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1604 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:55 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Barnes is definitely going to be a wing in the NBA. He has all the skills to get there. I apologize but I can't get too deep this post. I already posted all the skills that I believe will transfer and make him a really good NBA player. He has a 7'2" wingspan, plays above the rim, has great handles, can run the court, plays elite defense, and is a great shot blocker for his size.

I'm not going to say a player is going to be a bad shooter in the league just because his free throw % isn't great. He's very young, and could easily get better. To say a 19 year old doesn't have much chance to improve is not the right way to evaluate future potential.

I like him a lot, you don't. And that's cool. There isn't one talent evaluator out there that you don't respect? How about Mike Schmitz from ESPN?

I'll post a few vids and you can decide to watch them or not, but again, most evaluators agree with me that he has one of the highest ceilings in this upcoming draft. Obi was a stiff on D on Dayton, Barnes is an elite defender in college. Killian Hayes is a terrible comparison. I thought Killian was too slow and unathletic to make in the NBA. Barnes is fast and super athletic, and a great passer.

Barnes also has won his whole life, and was the main reason FSU was good this year. He's a glue guy that does everything well. He would fit in great with this organization as well, bringing a winning attitude and hard nosed D. Thibs would LOVE him. :lol:









See you disagreed about what a lot of talent evaluators thought of Obi and Hayes! How persuasive would you have been by me just saying well Kevin O Conner thinks Hayes is the best prospect in this draft? Or Zach Lowe thinking Obi's offense is good enough for him to go 1st? It's not a super compelling argument cuz these guys get things wrong all the time. That's why I mentioned those two guys. It's not that Barnes plays anything like them.

Just like how you had legitimate questions about Obi's lateral quickness and Hayes athleticism. I've got questions about Barnes ability to create and the half court, his shooting, and if he has any positionality versatility. Mike Schmitz basically said all the same negative things I said about him and expects Barnes to be a 4 or a small ball 5, that's a bad shooter that struggles in the half court. With that being said, he could easily end up turning into Giannis if he can figure out his offensive game. He's got a great first step and had a sick poster in one of those videos you linked. He's definitely super toolsy but I'm just not sure he's going to figure it out.


Of course talent evaluators get things wrong evaluating players. That goes without saying. If you don't trust any of them, that's fine. The only reason I bring it up, is because MOST of them are high on Barnes. Not just one or two guys. But if you think they all suck, that's fine too. I base his evaluation on my eyes, not what they say.

He's going to be drafted in the top 10 (maybe as high as 6), so NBA GM's obviously are high on the kid as well. If you don't trust any of them, that's okay.

I like him and think the sky's the limit, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that.


Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1605 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:06 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:

See you disagreed about what a lot of talent evaluators thought of Obi and Hayes! How persuasive would you have been by me just saying well Kevin O Conner thinks Hayes is the best prospect in this draft? Or Zach Lowe thinking Obi's offense is good enough for him to go 1st? It's not a super compelling argument cuz these guys get things wrong all the time. That's why I mentioned those two guys. It's not that Barnes plays anything like them.

Just like how you had legitimate questions about Obi's lateral quickness and Hayes athleticism. I've got questions about Barnes ability to create and the half court, his shooting, and if he has any positionality versatility. Mike Schmitz basically said all the same negative things I said about him and expects Barnes to be a 4 or a small ball 5, that's a bad shooter that struggles in the half court. With that being said, he could easily end up turning into Giannis if he can figure out his offensive game. He's got a great first step and had a sick poster in one of those videos you linked. He's definitely super toolsy but I'm just not sure he's going to figure it out.


Of course talent evaluators get things wrong evaluating players. That goes without saying. If you don't trust any of them, that's fine. The only reason I bring it up, is because MOST of them are high on Barnes. Not just one or two guys. But if you think they all suck, that's fine too. I base his evaluation on my eyes, not what they say.

He's going to be drafted in the top 10 (maybe as high as 6), so NBA GM's obviously are high on the kid as well. If you don't trust any of them, that's okay.

I like him and think the sky's the limit, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that.


Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.


And they would say you're wrong about Barnes. You're just one person evaluating, and so am I, and so are the 'draft experts'.

Who do you trust then? Give me some names, and let's find out what they say about Barnes.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1606 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:12 pm

if true, welp. hopefully this means bouknight drops to us
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1607 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:17 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Of course talent evaluators get things wrong evaluating players. That goes without saying. If you don't trust any of them, that's fine. The only reason I bring it up, is because MOST of them are high on Barnes. Not just one or two guys. But if you think they all suck, that's fine too. I base his evaluation on my eyes, not what they say.

He's going to be drafted in the top 10 (maybe as high as 6), so NBA GM's obviously are high on the kid as well. If you don't trust any of them, that's okay.

I like him and think the sky's the limit, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that.


Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.


And they would say you're wrong about Barnes. You're just one person evaluating, and so am I, and so are the 'draft experts'.

Who do you trust then? Give me some names, and let's find out what they say about Barnes.


Mike Schmitz obviously likes him. He's got him in his top 7 in a stacked draft. Even with the points he made that perceive as 'negative'.

Another point I'd like to make is if we were able to draft Barnes, we could trade Randle. We could build around RJ, Barnes, Ayo (just speculating), Mitch and IQ. With Obi backing up Barnes.

Ayo/Rose
Burks (add another shooting guard with one of the 1sts for Randle)
RJ/Bullocks
Barnes/Obi
Mitch/Noel
IQ

Give IQ some minutes as a 2 as well. With a solid PG in Ayo, he'll open it up for IQ to get more open looks.

That's a roster I would love to see.

Plus the assets we could get for Randle. Maybe another first rounder this year, plus add another 1st next year? Wouldn't that be sweet. We could stack some serious talent fast.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1608 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:19 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.


And they would say you're wrong about Barnes. You're just one person evaluating, and so am I, and so are the 'draft experts'.

Who do you trust then? Give me some names, and let's find out what they say about Barnes.


Mike Schmitz obviously likes him. He's got him in his top 7 in a stacked draft.

Another point I'd like to make is if we were able to draft Barnes, we could trade Randle. We could build around RJ, Barnes, Ayo (just speculating), Mitch and IQ. With Obi backing up Barnes.

Ayo/Rose
Burks (add another shooting guard with one of the 1sts for Randle)
RJ/Bullocks
Barnes/Obi
Mitch/Noel
IQ

Give IQ some minutes as a 2 as well. With a solid PG in Ayo, he'll open it up for IQ to get more open looks.

That's a roster I would love to see.

Plus the assets we could get for Randle. Maybe another first rounder this year, plus add another 1st next year? Wouldn't that be sweet. We could stack some serious talent fast.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1609 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:21 pm

scottie barnes is sorta like a poor mans igoudala. his upside depends on if he can hit jumpers. if he can't improve his jumper he's not that great of a prospect. doesn't help us cause it's obvious we need guards who can shoot more than anything. i'll pass on barnes. too risky
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1610 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:27 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Of course talent evaluators get things wrong evaluating players. That goes without saying. If you don't trust any of them, that's fine. The only reason I bring it up, is because MOST of them are high on Barnes. Not just one or two guys. But if you think they all suck, that's fine too. I base his evaluation on my eyes, not what they say.

He's going to be drafted in the top 10 (maybe as high as 6), so NBA GM's obviously are high on the kid as well. If you don't trust any of them, that's okay.

I like him and think the sky's the limit, and you don't. Nothing wrong with that.


Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.


And they would say you're wrong about Barnes. You're just one person evaluating, and so am I, and so are the 'draft experts'.

Who do you trust then? Give me some names, and let's find out what they say about Barnes.


You already posted Mike Schmitz breakdown of Barnes and that video mentions the same exact red flags as I do. Jonathan Wasserman is my personal favorite and he's saying the same thing as me as well. Here's the latest about Barnes from his latest big board.

Spoiler:
What to do with Scottie Barnes

How much value does a 6'9" forward have when he can't shoot, create much or rebound? He totaled just 18 points and six rebounds through three NCAA tournament games.

Ranking Barnes in the lottery comes from the idea that he defies typical scouting traditions. Buying his stock means expecting he'll make an impact in his own unconventional way, similar to how Draymond Green makes things work for the Golden State Warriors without needing to score.

Barnes legitimately has the physical tools, feet and desire to guard all five positions. His passing is also a significant strength that's guaranteed to carry over.

Combine the defense and passing, throw in A-plus intangibles and ridiculous length for finishing plays around the key, and that should be enough for Barnes to establish himself as a unique, out-of-the-box role player. Improving his shooting to just average, which doesn't seem impossible based on the look of his 11 made threes, could get him to reach that top-shelf role-player level.


So what are you exactly disputing with my analysis? Cuz they seem to agree with me about his flaws. The only place I depart with them is on whether he's worth of such a high pick cuz otherwise we're in lock step.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1611 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:37 pm

We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1612 » by NewKnicks » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:45 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Where did I say I didn't trust them? You clearly don't understand my point and I don't like you putting words in my mouth. I just think they're wrong about Barnes.


And they would say you're wrong about Barnes. You're just one person evaluating, and so am I, and so are the 'draft experts'.

Who do you trust then? Give me some names, and let's find out what they say about Barnes.


You already posted Mike Schmitz breakdown of Barnes and that video mentions the same exact red flags as I do. Jonathan Wasserman is my personal favorite and he's saying the same thing as me as well. Here's the latest about Barnes from his latest big board.

Spoiler:
What to do with Scottie Barnes

How much value does a 6'9" forward have when he can't shoot, create much or rebound? He totaled just 18 points and six rebounds through three NCAA tournament games.

Ranking Barnes in the lottery comes from the idea that he defies typical scouting traditions. Buying his stock means expecting he'll make an impact in his own unconventional way, similar to how Draymond Green makes things work for the Golden State Warriors without needing to score.

Barnes legitimately has the physical tools, feet and desire to guard all five positions. His passing is also a significant strength that's guaranteed to carry over.

Combine the defense and passing, throw in A-plus intangibles and ridiculous length for finishing plays around the key, and that should be enough for Barnes to establish himself as a unique, out-of-the-box role player. Improving his shooting to just average, which doesn't seem impossible based on the look of his 11 made threes, could get him to reach that top-shelf role-player level.


So what are you exactly disputing with my analysis? Cuz they seem to agree with me about his flaws. The only place I depart with them is on whether he's worth of such a high pick cuz otherwise we're in lock step.


I've never said he's a sure fire pick and can't miss. I also never said he DEFINITELY will become a great shooter in the league. He has holes just like every other prospect outside of the top 5. They all have flaws. I could give you a summary for every single player being considered outside of the top 5, and there will be many flaws listed.

He's been top 10 in every mock I've seen. There might be one I've missed, but most have him at 5-9. Yahoo just came out with a new mock and has his at 5 (over Kominga). Unless everyone is wrong, he will be drafted that high. What you're saying is all of them are wrong, and he won't excel at the next level. And you have that right to say that. But there's obviously many reasons every single evaluator out there has him going in the top 10. He's not like Kispert, for example, who I've seen in the top 10 in some, but dropping down to 15-19 in some others. Same with both Johnsons, and Moody. All of them are moved all over the place on mocks. The one steady player, who is in every mock in the top 10 is Barnes. That alone says a lot.

I'm not saying he's gonna be a great shooter out of the gate. But neither is RJ. Do you like RJ?

You have the right to say he won't pan out, and I have the right to say he will. Not sure what you're arguing about either.

You say they agree with your flaws assessment, but they also all put him in the top 10. I wonder why that is? If they're so concerned about his 'flaws', why do they still mock him so high?
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1613 » by El Poochio » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:04 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.


You mean the Detroit pick
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B: D. Robinson | G. Trent | B. McLemore
B: P. George | OG Anunoby | J. Holiday
B: J. Crowder | D. Bertans | PJ Tucker
B: A. Davis | D. Theis | A. Baynes

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O: Isolation
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1614 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:08 pm

El Poochio wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.


You mean the Detroit pick


Oh no, I mean the Mavs pick, prepare yourself for this.

"We really loved Brandon at 21, we feel he has lottery talent so getting him here was a must, we had a lot of intel on him so we felt comfortable taking him here"
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1615 » by El Poochio » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:14 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.


You mean the Detroit pick


Oh no, I mean the Mavs pick, prepare yourself for this.

"We really loved Brandon at 21, we feel he has lottery talent so getting him here was a must, we had a lot of intel on him so we felt comfortable taking him here"


"We feared Boston would trade in the draft for Boston"
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B: D. Robinson | G. Trent | B. McLemore
B: P. George | OG Anunoby | J. Holiday
B: J. Crowder | D. Bertans | PJ Tucker
B: A. Davis | D. Theis | A. Baynes

HC: Sim Van Gundy

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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1616 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:22 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.



I think we need to be on the look out for us drafting Isiah Jackson with the mavs pick. I still have a feeling we're gonna look for a big cuz we don't want to pay mitch.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1617 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:10 pm

El Poochio wrote:Mitchell is billed as a defensive specialist but he has a pretty short wingspan, sure he can lock up his guy but how much is he gonna be a factor in help defense

I guess he can be a Marcus Smart type player for us next to RJ - Randle where you can assign him to defend smaller players

If you think he can reach Donovan Mitchell levels on offense draft him yesterday


his wingspan is reportedly 6-5, which would be +3. enough to guard both backcourt positions. he's got great feet defensively and does well avoiding screens
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1618 » by bleedblue3303 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:14 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:We're obviously drafting Boston with the Mavs pick, right? We all know this deep down.


You mean the Detroit pick


Oh no, I mean the Mavs pick, prepare yourself for this.

"We really loved Brandon at 21, we feel he has lottery talent so getting him here was a must, we had a lot of intel on him so we felt comfortable taking him here"


When are we going to learn. If the Knicks take Boston higher than expected. We should all jump for joy. That means they have the inside track on player that is being overlooked. What's the point of all these Kentucky connections and insight if we don't use them?
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sol537
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1619 » by sol537 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:22 pm

I like the two Baylor guards. Great defense, winners, shooters. Sign me up for those types of guys, any day.
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Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2 

Post#1620 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:27 pm

bleedblue3303 wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
El Poochio wrote:
You mean the Detroit pick


Oh no, I mean the Mavs pick, prepare yourself for this.

"We really loved Brandon at 21, we feel he has lottery talent so getting him here was a must, we had a lot of intel on him so we felt comfortable taking him here"


When are we going to learn. If the Knicks take Boston higher than expected. We should all jump for joy. That means they have the inside track on player that is being overlooked. What's the point of all these Kentucky connections and insight if we don't use them?


so you're cool drafting any Kentucky player over players that may be better just b/c of the connection factor? connections work both ways, they can also be detrimental due to lack of objectivity
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