What is Thibs Obsession With Elfrid Payton?

[NYKAL]

who would guys rather see play. DSJ and Frank aren't ready for prime time, Rivers is just as bad as they are except against Utah, and Quickly is the closer and, he's playing more minutes than Payton. Also, IQ hasn't figured out how to deal with being pressed on the court, He almost always picks up his dribble and still needs to learn NOT to jump while passing. He still has a ways to go.

[thebuzzardman]

who would guys rather see play. DSJ and Frank aren't ready for prime time, Rivers is just as bad as they are except against Utah, and Quickly is the closer and, he's playing more minutes than Payton. Also, IQ hasn't figured out how to deal with being pressed on the court, He almost always picks up his dribble and still needs to learn NOT to jump while passing. He still has a ways to go.

Quickley isn't playing more minutes than Payton. It's about 2:1, Payton.

Then again, I'm not sure IQ is ready for an inversion of that, and of course, with DRose, it's definitely not happening.

I think posters just want the young guy to play more minutes - like 25 mpg.
I guess there are those that think IQ should start.
I wouldn't mind him starting, but I can see reasons why they might not do it, so I'm in the "play the kid 25 mpg" group.

I doubt either group gets their wish this year

[DOT]

who would guys rather see play. DSJ and Frank aren't ready for prime time, Rivers is just as bad as they are except against Utah, and Quickly is the closer and, he's playing more minutes than Payton. Also, IQ hasn't figured out how to deal with being pressed on the court, He almost always picks up his dribble and still needs to learn NOT to jump while passing. He still has a ways to go.

Quickley isn't playing more minutes than Payton. It's about 2:1, Payton.

Then again, I'm not sure IQ is ready for an inversion of that, and of course, with DRose, it's definitely not happening.

I think posters just want the young guy to play more minutes - like 25 mpg.
I guess there are those that think IQ should start.
I wouldn't mind him starting, but I can see reasons why they might not do it, so I'm in the "play the kid 25 mpg" group.

I doubt either group gets their wish this year

There have been 5 games this season where Quick has played more minutes than Elfrid, out of 21 Quick has played in

Meaning 75% of the time, Elfrid gets more minutes than him. I don't know where this narrative that Quick gets more minutes than Elfrid came from, but it's super easy to disprove. There was a 4 game stretch the last week of January where Quick got more minutes than Elfrid every game, but even then it was 26 for Quick, 21 for Elfrid on average for those games

Outside that 4 game stretch, there's only been one game

I think Quick just is a better fit with the starters and they play better with him (and can prove it with numbers), so I think he should start and get around 30 mpg. It also helps if he's gonna close out games because this way he gets a rest to start the 4th instead of playing the last 12-15 minutes straight.

[GONYK]

who would guys rather see play. DSJ and Frank aren't ready for prime time, Rivers is just as bad as they are except against Utah, and Quickly is the closer and, he's playing more minutes than Payton. Also, IQ hasn't figured out how to deal with being pressed on the court, He almost always picks up his dribble and still needs to learn NOT to jump while passing. He still has a ways to go.

Quickley isn't playing more minutes than Payton. It's about 2:1, Payton.

Then again, I'm not sure IQ is ready for an inversion of that, and of course, with DRose, it's definitely not happening.

I think posters just want the young guy to play more minutes - like 25 mpg.
I guess there are those that think IQ should start.
I wouldn't mind him starting, but I can see reasons why they might not do it, so I'm in the "play the kid 25 mpg" group.

I doubt either group gets their wish this year

There have been 5 games this season where Quick has played more minutes than Elfrid, out of 21 Quick has played in

Meaning 75% of the time, Elfrid gets more minutes than him. I don't know where this narrative that Quick gets more minutes than Elfrid came from, but it's super easy to disprove. There was a 4 game stretch the last week of January where Quick got more minutes than Elfrid every game, but even then it was 26 for Quick, 21 for Elfrid on average for those games

Outside that 4 game stretch, there's only been one game

I think Quick just is a better fit with the starters and they play better with him (and can prove it with numbers), so I think he should start and get around 30 mpg. It also helps if he's gonna close out games because this way he gets a rest to start the 4th instead of playing the last 12-15 minutes straight.

Not only do the starters play better with IQ, the numbers say he plays even better with them.

[SelbyCobra]

I have this weird, unfounded bias with Elfrid - just by looking at him, something about his face, something about him being a point guard, something maybe just about his overall appearance, whatever it is, I think of him as a really intelligent guy - I default to him as being really intelligent for some reason.

Then he plays horribly over and over again, and I subconsciously attach that to him being exceptionally intelligent and arrive at the place I do with the QBs in the NFL who went to Ivy League schools, like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jay Fiedler - their bodies are just not physically capable of keeping up with their minds at an elite level. They might hang around because of their natural smarts, but they're not ever going to be actively good in their sports.

And then I see a post game interview with him and get reminded that in fact, no, SelbyCobra, you're dead wrong.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I have this weird, unfounded bias with Elfrid - just by looking at him, something about his face, something about him being a point guard, something maybe just about his overall appearance, whatever it is, I think of him as a really intelligent guy - I default to him as being really intelligent for some reason.

Then he plays horribly over and over again, and I subconsciously attach that to him being exceptionally intelligent and arrive at the place I do with the QBs in the NFL who went to Ivy League schools, like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jay Fiedler - their bodies are just not physically capable of keeping up with their minds at an elite level. They might hang around because of their natural smarts, but they're not ever going to be actively good in their sports.

And then I see a post game interview with him and get reminded that in fact, no, SelbyCobra, you're dead wrong.

Q. What do you call a Payton-Quickley backcourt?

A. A Flock of Sméagols

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

who would guys rather see play. DSJ and Frank aren't ready for prime time, Rivers is just as bad as they are except against Utah, and Quickly is the closer and, he's playing more minutes than Payton. Also, IQ hasn't figured out how to deal with being pressed on the court, He almost always picks up his dribble and still needs to learn NOT to jump while passing. He still has a ways to go.

Quickley isn't playing more minutes than Payton. It's about 2:1, Payton.

Then again, I'm not sure IQ is ready for an inversion of that, and of course, with DRose, it's definitely not happening.

I think posters just want the young guy to play more minutes - like 25 mpg.
I guess there are those that think IQ should start.
I wouldn't mind him starting, but I can see reasons why they might not do it, so I'm in the "play the kid 25 mpg" group.

I doubt either group gets their wish this year

Hmmm. I quoted the wrong person - nothing wrong with Selby's post. Lemme try here:

Q. What do you call a Payton-Quickley backcourt?

A. A Flock of Sméagols

[Strick]

Read on Twitter

[nedleeds]

This was what I was saying. It's not hyperbole to say Elbrick is the worst guard who plays real minutes in the league. A random g league player can simply do no worse, certainly Frank can't.

[KnicksGod]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2071775

[3toheadmelo]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2071775

Seems like their fan base misses Thibs greatly. Some of them even said our Knicks teams reminds them of their old bulls teams. So happy we have one of the best coaches in the league

[Nazrmohamed]

Thibs values Experience > Potential, it is what it is ...

As long as we’re winning, and IQ plays down the stretch, I’m good with it... what bothers me is Obi can’t get 15 minutes but Randle is getting run into the ground

Exactly, and I can see the argument that the Knicks could've or should've prioritized PG in the draft or via FA. I definitely feel there are PGs I rather have but as long as we're talking about this roster...........yeah sure, I bash Peyton and I've wished other guys got the job but can I say with any level of certainty that simply reshuffling this roster depth chart would've made any difference, positively that is? I mean, its possible but I can't say definitively. Rose is great in spurts d/t his mileage, Quickley can be awesome but you never know what you're gonna get from one night to the next or if he's really a PG at all and Frank is lucky to be in the league most nights.


All my alternate solutions involve guys not on the team so....maybe by now it's just best to accept that Elfrid is Thibs guy with this roster as presently constructed.

[Spot31]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2071775

You don't know a good thing until it's gone. Monty Williams and Quin Snyder have talented players. Tom Thibodeau is winning with scrubs!

[Capn'O]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2071775

Seems like their fan base misses Thibs greatly. Some of them even said our Knicks teams reminds them of their old bulls teams. So happy we have one of the best coaches in the league

The majority of Bulls fans have always loved Thibs. It's those Wolves fans.

[KnicksGod]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2071775

You don't know a good thing until it's gone. Monty Williams and Quin Snyder have talented players. Tom Thibodeau is winning with scrubs!

He’s able to cover for guys with only decent defensive players. Also his O is def underrated. It’s much better than JVG’s. Those guys are much poorer versions.

[vallen]

I am not positive about this, but I heard the MP in mpharris's name stands for More Payton.

[CharlesOakley]

Elfrid if proof that you can stick in the nba with both bad shooting and passing.

[KnicksGadfly]

Thibs wants to win coach of the year and style on people. It's like winning a basketball game with one hand tied behind your back. You just look more badass if you're able to handicap yourself.

[Adelheid]

I woudnt be reading too much on Thib's preferential treatments. Hornacek has shown favoritism towards vets (esp. Jarrett Jack). There really wasnt a HC that catered towards rookies here in NY in recent times. Rookies are rookies at the end of the day. Once they are out of the rookie scale contract, perspectives might change for them.

Being treated badly as a rookie is just a rite of passage in my opinion.