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Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him?

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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#381 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Tue May 4, 2021 7:46 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
He has talent but his drive scares me. Does he even care?



What are the alternatives, are you fine with going into next season with Payton still starting?


Outside of trying to trade for Sexton, I don't see any avenues to getting much better at PG. We're not going to start a rookie point guard next season and IQ is not a PG. Nobody we get is going to be this perfect player some of you are holding out for and the 2022 free agent pool of PGs isn't that great either.


I'm not gonna stop you from liking Lonzo cuz I do too but there are many options. Even if we were only looking at FA there's Schroeder, I liked someone's idea of giving Lowry sort of a mini max one yr deal or 1-1option. You still got trades. I know the Knicks have liked scary Terry for a while. Teams may look to go in different directions. And then lastly there's the draft and inner development.



There aren't many options, that is the problem here, is the assumption there's more when in fact there isn't. Lowry is most likely going to Miami, Schroeder is going to be resigned by the Lakers since they can't afford to lose him, and the Hornets love Rozier. The free agency market is dry this year and next year for PGs, we can't keep kicking the can down the road without a solution at that position.

The reason why I'd sign Lonzo is because he's malleable, he can play the Payton-esque role but with 3 point shooting, or you can turn him into a SG in the future if you land a PG, you can also experiment with him and IQ starting together.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#382 » by sol537 » Tue May 4, 2021 7:51 pm

If we really want Lonzo, I'm confident we can get him with the support of Lavar in a S&T. The Pels have 2 PG's on the roster already that need mins and our staff can help Lonzo get to the next level. Lonzo can also play off the ball at times when/if Rose comes off the bench for his 25-30 mins. It's quite a good fit, actually, as long as the money works.

Lavar 100% wants Lonzo on the Knicks IMO.

We'd still have assets to package together for an all-star either this off-season or in-season next year.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#383 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Tue May 4, 2021 7:53 pm

Kampuchea wrote:Rose > Lonzo - particularly at the likely cost. Guess we can use both but with Rose improved play I would say it is a priority to improve over Payton but not important to get one of the top PGs out there. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/point-guard/

Who are decent mid-level options to split PG duties with Rose? Reggie Jackson? Mcconnell?





Games played

2017-2018 - 25
2018-2019 - 51
2019-2020 - 50


Rose misses games, he's turning 33 this year, passing on PGs because of Rose would be a monumental mistake. He should be kept in the 6th man role.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#384 » by stuporman » Tue May 4, 2021 8:16 pm

I'm certain Rose is coming back but he will be one more year closer to the end of his career and still really better suited for the role he is in right now off the bench. The Knicks HAVE to upgrade the starting PG spot and IQ may or may not be ready to do it but he still might be better suited for at least one more season to the role he is currently in as an off the bench microwave scorer.

I'm on and off with the idea of Lonzo as the option to plug into the starting spot but I don't doubt the Knicks FO communication with Thibs, if he wants him they will try to get him. His ability to run the break, make the extra pass and shoot the ball fits what the Knicks need at the 1 and if it's one of those games his shot isn't falling the Knicks have options to close out the 4th quarter with off the bench.

Just how much in salary slot are the Knicks willing to tie up in Lonzo is the question. Will they want to commit 4yrs/$80mil at $17/$19/$21/$23? Will that be enough to pry him away from NO or outbid the Bulls? Is that even worth it in % of cap for him if he isn't a 'star' and only a super glue guy? I'm still not sure which way I'm leaning on it, I could see it go either way.

Although, I don't want the Knicks trading anything for him, just money, no assets out.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#385 » by Nazrmohamed » Tue May 4, 2021 9:12 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

What are the alternatives, are you fine with going into next season with Payton still starting?


Outside of trying to trade for Sexton, I don't see any avenues to getting much better at PG. We're not going to start a rookie point guard next season and IQ is not a PG. Nobody we get is going to be this perfect player some of you are holding out for and the 2022 free agent pool of PGs isn't that great either.


I'm not gonna stop you from liking Lonzo cuz I do too but there are many options. Even if we were only looking at FA there's Schroeder, I liked someone's idea of giving Lowry sort of a mini max one yr deal or 1-1option. You still got trades. I know the Knicks have liked scary Terry for a while. Teams may look to go in different directions. And then lastly there's the draft and inner development.



There aren't many options, that is the problem here, is the assumption there's more when in fact there isn't. Lowry is most likely going to Miami, Schroeder is going to be resigned by the Lakers since they can't afford to lose him, and the Hornets love Rozier. The free agency market is dry this year and next year for PGs, we can't keep kicking the can down the road without a solution at that position.

The reason why I'd sign Lonzo is because he's malleable, he can play the Payton-esque role but with 3 point shooting, or you can turn him into a SG in the future if you land a PG, you can also experiment with him and IQ starting together.


I hear you about Ball, all I'm saying is let's not be one trick ponies this offseason. 3specially when doing nothing still puts Quickley and Rose at PG. I could let Peyton go and still have good reason to sign a wing instead of a PG. Obviously our system produces wins without a dominant PG.

But again, that's not to say I wouldn't want Ball but if his price tag gets obnoxious and I can walk away is all
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#386 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 4, 2021 9:16 pm

He looked like crapola when we played them. I’m good with Quickley and Rose going into next season.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#387 » by RHODEY » Tue May 4, 2021 9:27 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:He looked like crapola when we played them. I’m good with Quickley and Rise going into next season.


and he looked like crapola last night...seems like he's disappears at times...but then other times he looks somewhat studly.. Its a tough call I want to see how he wraps up the season.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#388 » by stuporman » Tue May 4, 2021 9:59 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:He looked like crapola when we played them. I’m good with Quickley and Rise going into next season.


Yea, because the Knicks track record of getting players because they played well against them is stellar in it's results. We have a hall of fame of SOTN to choose from... :lol:

I would think someone with as much experience as you wouldn't fall for the banana in the tailpipe trick of coming to a conclusion based on the small sample size of one game. I don't know if he is the answer or not but I prefer not to base my opinion on small sample size.

We don't know why he had a bad showing against the Knicks but he had just returned off injury so is it rust, or Knicks are just so good defensively or who knows.

I'm not saying he is the missing piece or if he'll just be an overpriced role player or another anchor on the offensive efficiency of the starting unit, I'm undecided....just don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#389 » by cgf » Tue May 4, 2021 10:04 pm

stuporman wrote:I'm certain Rose is coming back but he will be one more year closer to the end of his career and still really better suited for the role he is in right now off the bench. The Knicks HAVE to upgrade the starting PG spot and IQ may or may not be ready to do it but he still might be better suited for at least one more season to the role he is currently in as an off the bench microwave scorer.

I'm on and off with the idea of Lonzo as the option to plug into the starting spot but I don't doubt the Knicks FO communication with Thibs, if he wants him they will try to get him. His ability to run the break, make the extra pass and shoot the ball fits what the Knicks need at the 1 and if it's one of those games his shot isn't falling the Knicks have options to close out the 4th quarter with off the bench.

Just how much in salary slot are the Knicks willing to tie up in Lonzo is the question. Will they want to commit 4yrs/$80mil at $17/$19/$21/$23? Will that be enough to pry him away from NO or outbid the Bulls? Is that even worth it in % of cap for him if he isn't a 'star' and only a super glue guy? I'm still not sure which way I'm leaning on it, I could see it go either way.

Although, I don't want the Knicks trading anything for him, just money, no assets out.

I wonder how much it would cost to S&T him from the Pels to ensure we can get on him on a reasonable contract & not need to overpay badly...I'm thinking something like a frontloaded 3yr deal starting around 20M. Lonzo on a contract like that, that he'd still have positive value on, would make him a much more appealing option to replace Elf in the starting lineup next season.

Feels like we could sucker them into taking Knox & a SRP.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#390 » by stuporman » Tue May 4, 2021 10:14 pm

cgf wrote:
stuporman wrote:I'm certain Rose is coming back but he will be one more year closer to the end of his career and still really better suited for the role he is in right now off the bench. The Knicks HAVE to upgrade the starting PG spot and IQ may or may not be ready to do it but he still might be better suited for at least one more season to the role he is currently in as an off the bench microwave scorer.

I'm on and off with the idea of Lonzo as the option to plug into the starting spot but I don't doubt the Knicks FO communication with Thibs, if he wants him they will try to get him. His ability to run the break, make the extra pass and shoot the ball fits what the Knicks need at the 1 and if it's one of those games his shot isn't falling the Knicks have options to close out the 4th quarter with off the bench.

Just how much in salary slot are the Knicks willing to tie up in Lonzo is the question. Will they want to commit 4yrs/$80mil at $17/$19/$21/$23? Will that be enough to pry him away from NO or outbid the Bulls? Is that even worth it in % of cap for him if he isn't a 'star' and only a super glue guy? I'm still not sure which way I'm leaning on it, I could see it go either way.

Although, I don't want the Knicks trading anything for him, just money, no assets out.

I wonder how much it would cost to S&T him from the Pels to ensure we can get on him on a reasonable contract & not need to overpay badly...I'm thinking something like a frontloaded 3yr deal starting around 20M. Lonzo on a contract like that, that he'd still have positive value on, would make him a much more appealing option to replace Elf in the starting lineup next season.

Feels like we could sucker them into taking Knox & a SRP.


If that's all it took to get him on something like a 3yr/$56mil deal whether declining or not I'd be ok with it but I doubt that's all they'd want. You know Griffin would be angling for a 1st and/or Mitch and I surely don't want to see the Knicks strong armed into giving up assets for a question mark they could sign outright.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#391 » by cgf » Tue May 4, 2021 10:16 pm

stuporman wrote:
cgf wrote:
stuporman wrote:I'm certain Rose is coming back but he will be one more year closer to the end of his career and still really better suited for the role he is in right now off the bench. The Knicks HAVE to upgrade the starting PG spot and IQ may or may not be ready to do it but he still might be better suited for at least one more season to the role he is currently in as an off the bench microwave scorer.

I'm on and off with the idea of Lonzo as the option to plug into the starting spot but I don't doubt the Knicks FO communication with Thibs, if he wants him they will try to get him. His ability to run the break, make the extra pass and shoot the ball fits what the Knicks need at the 1 and if it's one of those games his shot isn't falling the Knicks have options to close out the 4th quarter with off the bench.

Just how much in salary slot are the Knicks willing to tie up in Lonzo is the question. Will they want to commit 4yrs/$80mil at $17/$19/$21/$23? Will that be enough to pry him away from NO or outbid the Bulls? Is that even worth it in % of cap for him if he isn't a 'star' and only a super glue guy? I'm still not sure which way I'm leaning on it, I could see it go either way.

Although, I don't want the Knicks trading anything for him, just money, no assets out.

I wonder how much it would cost to S&T him from the Pels to ensure we can get on him on a reasonable contract & not need to overpay badly...I'm thinking something like a frontloaded 3yr deal starting around 20M. Lonzo on a contract like that, that he'd still have positive value on, would make him a much more appealing option to replace Elf in the starting lineup next season.

Feels like we could sucker them into taking Knox & a SRP.


If that's all it took to get him on something like a 3yr/$56mil deal whether declining or not I'd be ok with it but I doubt that's all they'd want. You know Griffin would be angling for a 1st and/or Mitch and I surely don't want to see the Knicks string armed into giving up assets for a question mark they could sign outright.

Yeah, but Griffin is an idiot. I'm sure Leon could convince him that Knox is hots***.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#392 » by vallen » Tue May 4, 2021 10:27 pm

After KP and his family I always had concerns with the Ball's. A lot of people in the players ear that shouldnt be. Agents conducting business for their clients is great. Family performing services for their sons or brothers can get complicated. Too many chefs creating different meals. With that said these are still the types of players we should be targeting. The PG's of the future, not the ones of old.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#393 » by Chanel Bomber » Tue May 4, 2021 11:53 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Meat wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Last point.

Randle is like Zion
RJ isn't really like Ingram
Ball is like Ball.

If the Pels are kinda/sorta having some issues with a Ball/Ingram/Zion lineup where Ingram is a more advanced "get his own shot" guy vs RJ right now, why would the Knicks be that much better with a similar set of players, only RJ isn't as good as Ingram - yet.

Other than RJ is a more team oriented player than Ingram, but I don't think that changes the equation.

Again, I'd be fine with the Knicks getting him. It depends who the other wing is for next 2 years of RJ's development.
you think the pel's problems are on the offensive end?
Zion is the worst defending pf in the league. point blank period.
Ingram is a trash defender


My point is, you add Lonzo and at best you duplicate a lesser version of the Pels offense, which while it plays at tempo, isn't THAT great. And that's with Ingram being much better in the role of creative wing than RJ is now and for the next probably two seasons after that.

And that's if the Knicks decided to play at tempo, which Thibs doesn't seem to do.

This isn't knocking Lonzo or RJ. It's more, that if the Knicks DO decide to get Lonzo (and I sort of doubt they'll pursue him) then it doesn't make sense unless there's a creative wing added that's better at it than current RJ.

I want to emphasize I say "Current RJ" because I think RJ will become a wing who can get his shot anytime from anywhere but that that player is three seasons away. Where RJ will be the super old age of 23.

See my other posts on this.

If Lonzo starts, there is only Randle who is capable of getting his shot off at will. Rose stays on the bench.

If Rose starts and Lonzo starts, then Bullocks goes to the bench, and is Lonzo really, in totality, better than Bullocks, but he'll cost at least 2X more.

Lonzo at PG with RJ and another wing who can create, while retaining Rose & Bullocks for the bench, now THAT makes sense.

Also, the Knicks could acquire Lonzo and kind of juggle the lineup the way they do now with Payton, where Lonzo plays 18 mpg at PG, Rose gets more minutes at PG, and then Lonzo gets moved over to Bullocks spot for his other 15-18 minutes, while waiting to get that other wing

Yeah I agree, I think Lonzo might create more issues instead of solving the ones we already have.

He's not a point guard in my view (let alone a Thibs point guard) and he's obviously not taking RJ's spot. So that leaves Bullock on the wings. But is he as good a shooter as Bullock? Can he navigate screens and catch-and-shoot on the move like Bullock? Can he screen for Randle the way Bullock does? I don't think that's his game. Bullock is a shooter, Lonzo is a ball-mover who can shoot albeit inconsistently. So replacing Bullock with Lonzo in the line-up would probably be a downgrade.

If he doesn't help the starting unit, then that relegates him to a bench role. But we already have a two-guard rotation coming off the bench in Rose and Quickley.

So I'm a little confused what exactly Lonzo would bring to this team. In my opinion there isn't a role for him on this team, unless you want him to be your point guard based on the rationale that he's an upgrade over Payton, which is absolutely true but doesn't really mean much since Payton is probably one of the 5 worst rotation point guards in the NBA.

Would he be a bad signing? Probably not. But would he be a good signing? I'm not sure either, and probably lean towards no at the end of the day.

PS: Just realized I only focused on the offensive side of the ball. Ball could definitely help us take another step defensively.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#394 » by cgf » Wed May 5, 2021 12:16 am

The thinking is that Elf still starts because of Thibs' focus-on/obsession-with defense from the starting lineup, and as a big defensive PG Lonzo could help our defense get even better while improving the spacing for Julius & RJ. Plus he'd be a good fit if/when we eventually make a move for a "third star" to join RJ & Julius...be it Booker, Mitchell, Fox, Lavine or Sexton.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#395 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed May 5, 2021 12:27 am

cgf wrote:The thinking is that Elf still starts because of Thibs' focus-on/obsession-with defense from the starting lineup, and as a big defensive PG Lonzo could help our defense get even better while improving the spacing for Julius & RJ. Plus he'd be a good fit if/when we eventually make a move for a "third star" to join RJ & Julius...be it Booker, Mitchell, Fox, Lavine or Sexton.


Yep!!

Target lonzo this off-season and than go for Lavine the following off-season!!!!

Lonzo/Drose
Rj/IQ
Bullock/Burks
Randle/Obi
Mitch/taj

Then.....

Lonzo/Drose
Lavine/IQ
Rj/bullock
Randle/Obi
Mitch/taj

Let’s roll!!!!!
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#396 » by robillionaire » Wed May 5, 2021 2:22 am

33 pts, 7-13 from 3, took over in the 4th

Cut that check
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#397 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 5, 2021 4:08 am

RHODEY wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:He looked like crapola when we played them. I’m good with Quickley and Rise going into next season.


and he looked like crapola last night...seems like he's disappears at times...but then other times he looks somewhat studly.. Its a tough call I want to see how he wraps up the season.


Yeah, he does have those games occasionally. He possesses passing abilities that IQ doesn’t. Plus, he has the size and better defensive abilities than him too. I would prefer a PG who is more consistent and stable even if it means parting with draft picks.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#398 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed May 5, 2021 4:21 am

robillionaire wrote:33 pts, 7-13 from 3, took over in the 4th

Cut that check





A couple nice drives to the hoop in this game too. Maybe there’s more to see from his off the dribble game than meets the eye.
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#399 » by stuporman » Wed May 5, 2021 5:01 am

You know Lonzo can produce while he coexists with a ball handling PF and a play creating wing even if the team isn't as cohesive and effective as the one coached by Thibs so there's that....
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Re: Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him? 

Post#400 » by RHODEY » Wed May 5, 2021 5:07 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:He looked like crapola when we played them. I’m good with Quickley and Rise going into next season.


and he looked like crapola last night...seems like he's disappears at times...but then other times he looks somewhat studly.. Its a tough call I want to see how he wraps up the season.


Yeah, he does have those games occasionally. He possesses passing abilities that IQ doesn’t. Plus, he has the size and better defensive abilities than him too. I would prefer a PG who is more consistent and stable even if it means parting with draft picks.


I prefer those things too...perhaps Payne and Thibs could get that out of Lonzo..maybe...

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