PG- Game of Zones Part Deux

[dakomish23]

Just be happy we have RJB. He's 20. Enjoy the ride.

[Fat Kat]

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[Cookies4Life]

I wish we were tanking this year. We're in that weird spot where best case scenario this team will be exiting in the 1st round.

We have a good amount of depth on this squad but we're devoid of upper-tier talent outside of Randle at this point. You can't become a perennial contender in this league with the team as constructed.

Cunningham would be the top prize IMO, Jalen Suggs looks terrific, Green looks like he has some Westbrook in him and I think Kuminga has such high potential- he looks like he can turn into a Paul George type.

I'm glad this team is above .500 but realistically we're going to get obliterated by the top teams. If there was any season to suck, this would be it. Well hopefully the Mavs keep around .500 and we can parlay their pick and ours to move up in the draft. One more talented rookie to add to the core of RJ and Randle would make this squad look very enticing to FA's in 2022.

[mpharris36]

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[HEZI]

RJ will be fine. He's shown plenty flashes throughout the year that shine light on how good he can be. It's going to take time for him to pull it all together as he sharpens his tools and adds more to his bag and then brings it all together. We've seen step backs, floaters, finishing in the paint through contact, getting to the line, catch and shoot jumpers, etc. Plenty of ways he's been able to score but still needs to become more consistent and that will come. He needs more offseason work to really get comfortable with using some moves. Not worried about him at all, we just need to keep finding the right pieces to put around him.

[spree2kawhi]

Randle is the best player out of that group IMO. RJ will get to where Jimmy is soon enough .

Jimmy Butler is by far the best player in that conversation and it's not close at all. RJ probably won't ever get there. Sorry.

Really? So if we replaced Randle with Jimmy this season, we'd have a better record?

I think we'd be in the lottery.

Randle is not even in his league. What are you even talking about? Of course Butler could carry this team too. You know, like last year, when he carried a bunch of nobodies to the NBA Finals. That counts, man.

[RHODEY]

Jimmy Butler is by far the best player in that conversation and it's not close at all. RJ probably won't ever get there. Sorry.

Really? So if we replaced Randle with Jimmy this season, we'd have a better record?

I think we'd be in the lottery.

Randle is not even in his league. What are you even talking about? Of course Butler could carry this team too. You know, like last year, when he carried a bunch of nobodies to the NBA Finals. That counts, man.

LOL. BAM is a nobody? Dragic is a nobody?...What are you even talking about?

[spree2kawhi]

Really? So if we replaced Randle with Jimmy this season, we'd have a better record?

I think we'd be in the lottery.

Randle is not even in his league. What are you even talking about? Of course Butler could carry this team too. You know, like last year, when he carried a bunch of nobodies to the NBA Finals. That counts, man.

LOL. BAM is a nobody? Dragic is a nobody?...What are you even talking about?

You know that's true. Bam was a nobody two years ago, yes in 2019, and Dragic was almost out of the league and that isn't even hyperbole.

[RHODEY]

Randle is not even in his league. What are you even talking about? Of course Butler could carry this team too. You know, like last year, when he carried a bunch of nobodies to the NBA Finals. That counts, man.

LOL. BAM is a nobody? Dragic is a nobody?...What are you even talking about?

You know that's true. Bam was a nobody two years ago, yes in 2019, and Dragic was almost out of the league and that isn't even hyperbole.

What does 2 years ago have to do with last year when they went to the Finals?

Last year Bam was an Allstar, and Dragic good - lethal. Their depth was also great. Butler has more talent around him. You know that's true.

[BugginOut]

I don’t think Randle is a #1 option either. seems like a high end second option. but Randle also destroyed Bam earlier this season and last season as well.
difference between Randle and RJ is that Randle can hit shots off the dribble, and has a variety of moves to counter defenses. RJ’s game is pretty much 70% just driving to the rim and 30% catch and shoot. it’s easier to shut him down cause his game is predictable.

It can take some time to develop that kind of game. Randle could never do that before this year, so still a lot of time for RJ to develop a midrange game. Even Tatum took some time to get to where he is at. Don't know if RJ will ever be a legit #1 option, but still has plenty of room to get better.

RJ can definitely improve and I just want it to be clear that I’m pretty happy with RJ. i just don’t know if I ever see him getting to that level where we can call ISO’s for him and let him go to work. usually players who end up being those great high end scorers flash those skills early on. Tatum definitely did since high school and Randle showed flashes but never did it on a consistent basis cause his jumper was inconsistent. it’s really about seeing how they create their own shots and their handle ability. RJ’s handle is pretty mediocre right now. he is able to still score a lot of points just because of how strong he is as a finisher and he’s been hitting catch and shoot 3’s. but he can’t really score on his own. i think the Knicks just need another shot creator to take this team to the next level. as much as I like Randle, I don’t see him as a #1 option

I just want to point out that RJ’s ability to get to the rim IS shot creation and is a better shot than an iso mid range jumper. You point out ISO ability but both Tatum and Randle are more assisted on their shot attempts compared to RJ

RJ is assisted on:
35% of 2PT makes and 98% of 3PT makes

In year 2 Tatum was assisted on:
50% of 2PT makes and 86% of 3PT makes

Shoot even Tatum’s All-NBA season he was assisted on:
45% of 2PT makes and 56% of 3PT makes

Randle for his was basically assisted on 100% of his 3PT shot and over 50% on his 2PT shots. This year he’s assisted on:
35% of 2PT makes and 80% of 3PT makes.

Very comparable to RJ THIS year.

This really just shows me that RJ is great at getting his own shot and he probably needs to be getting easier shots since with his cutting, transition and finishing ability he should be getting assisted on a greater percentage of his 2PT shots. The problem is he plays with a point guard who has barely given him 20 assists in over 80 games.

[br7knicks]

Just be happy we have RJB. He's 20. Enjoy the ride.

exactly. dude has only been in the league for 1.5 years and he's doing a great job of improving already.


one bad game does not mean we should overreact. overall, he's been great this year and we should be happy.

[spree2kawhi]

LOL. BAM is a nobody? Dragic is a nobody?...What are you even talking about?

You know that's true. Bam was a nobody two years ago, yes in 2019, and Dragic was almost out of the league and that isn't even hyperbole.

What does 2 years ago have to do with last year when they went to the Finals?

Last year Bam was an Allstar, and Dragic good - lethal. Their depth was also great. Butler has more talent around him. You know that's true.

It was a team of nobodies throughout the particular offseason before they went to the Finals. There was no supporting cast and Dragic was literally looking at Europe because he had been so bad for what I believe were two years. He was also bashed on this board as if he was the worst scrub ever and posters revealed how little they understand intangibles. Bam Adebayo burst onto the scene out of nowhere after averaging sth like 5 and 8 points in his first two years. He had been an athletic backup center to an underwhelming Hassan Whiteside, drafted just outside the lottery two years earlier - nothing else. Nobody knew Nunn, we didn't consider drafting Herro and Duncan Robinson was another guy nobody even considered an NBA talent really. Nobody considered Miami any good, then Butler signed there and took a team of nobodies - literally that is - to the Finals. It's a fact.

[RHODEY]

You know that's true. Bam was a nobody two years ago, yes in 2019, and Dragic was almost out of the league and that isn't even hyperbole.

What does 2 years ago have to do with last year when they went to the Finals?

Last year Bam was an Allstar, and Dragic good - lethal. Their depth was also great. Butler has more talent around him. You know that's true.

It was a team of nobodies throughout the particular offseason before they went to the Finals. There was no supporting cast and Dragic was literally looking at Europe because he had been so bad for what I believe were two years. He was also bashed on this board as if he was the worst scrub ever and posters revealed how little they understand intangibles. Bam Adebayo burst onto the scene out of nowhere after averaging sth like 5 and 8 points in his first two years. He had been an athletic backup center to an underwhelming Hassan Whiteside, drafted just outside the lottery two years earlier - nothing else. Nobody knew Nunn, we didn't consider drafting Herro and Duncan Robinson was another guy nobody even considered an NBA talent really. Nobody considered Miami any good, then Butler signed there and took a team of nobodies - literally that is - to the Finals. It's a fact.

Last year Butler played on a team with Bam Adebayo who was an Allstar, and a host of other talented players. The year before that Bam was already garnering praise...Dragic was known to be one of the better Tier 2 PG's in the league.

I'm sorry you didn't know about them.

Butler didn't make Bam an Allstar, Bam did that himself,nor did he make Dragic a stud..etc and Butler wouldn't carry this Knicks team the way Randle has.

[spree2kawhi]

What does 2 years ago have to do with last year when they went to the Finals?

Last year Bam was an Allstar, and Dragic good - lethal. Their depth was also great. Butler has more talent around him. You know that's true.

It was a team of nobodies throughout the particular offseason before they went to the Finals. There was no supporting cast and Dragic was literally looking at Europe because he had been so bad for what I believe were two years. He was also bashed on this board as if he was the worst scrub ever and posters revealed how little they understand intangibles. Bam Adebayo burst onto the scene out of nowhere after averaging sth like 5 and 8 points in his first two years. He had been an athletic backup center to an underwhelming Hassan Whiteside, drafted just outside the lottery two years earlier - nothing else. Nobody knew Nunn, we didn't consider drafting Herro and Duncan Robinson was another guy nobody even considered an NBA talent really. Nobody considered Miami any good, then Butler signed there and took a team of nobodies - literally that is - to the Finals. It's a fact.

Last year Butler played on a team with Bam Adebayo who was an Allstar, and a host of other talented players. The year before that Bam was already garnering praise...Dragic was known to be one of the better Tier 2 PG's in the league.

I'm sorry you didn't know about them.

Butler didn't make Bam an Allstar, Bam did that himself,nor did he make Dragic a stud..etc and Butler wouldn't carry this Knicks team the way Randle has.

Oh boy, you really want to be right. Again, in the summer going into that season Miami was a still bunch of nobodies and Randle simply isn't in Butler's league. End of story. Relax.

[moocow007]

I wish we were tanking this year. We're in that weird spot where best case scenario this team will be exiting in the 1st round.

We have a good amount of depth on this squad but we're devoid of upper-tier talent outside of Randle at this point. You can't become a perennial contender in this league with the team as constructed.

Cunningham would be the top prize IMO, Jalen Suggs looks terrific, Green looks like he has some Westbrook in him and I think Kuminga has such high potential- he looks like he can turn into a Paul George type.

I'm glad this team is above .500 but realistically we're going to get obliterated by the top teams. If there was any season to suck, this would be it. Well hopefully the Mavs keep around .500 and we can parlay their pick and ours to move up in the draft. One more talented rookie to add to the core of RJ and Randle would make this squad look very enticing to FA's in 2022.

The Knicks aren't bad enough to be remotely able to guarantee anything more than YET ANOTHER 8th or 9th overall pick. How many Franks, Knox's and Obi's do you think this team needs? They need to move forward and try to build a winning team not keep fantasizing about getting lucky and maybe finding something that can in 2, 3 or 4 years MAY be able to do something for them. They have Randle who is in his prime. They have Barrett who appears to be taking the express into his prime. They have a new front office that actually looks competent and a new head coach that is helping to build a positive identity. Tanking is not the answer.

[RHODEY]

It was a team of nobodies throughout the particular offseason before they went to the Finals. There was no supporting cast and Dragic was literally looking at Europe because he had been so bad for what I believe were two years. He was also bashed on this board as if he was the worst scrub ever and posters revealed how little they understand intangibles. Bam Adebayo burst onto the scene out of nowhere after averaging sth like 5 and 8 points in his first two years. He had been an athletic backup center to an underwhelming Hassan Whiteside, drafted just outside the lottery two years earlier - nothing else. Nobody knew Nunn, we didn't consider drafting Herro and Duncan Robinson was another guy nobody even considered an NBA talent really. Nobody considered Miami any good, then Butler signed there and took a team of nobodies - literally that is - to the Finals. It's a fact.

Last year Butler played on a team with Bam Adebayo who was an Allstar, and a host of other talented players. The year before that Bam was already garnering praise...Dragic was known to be one of the better Tier 2 PG's in the league.

I'm sorry you didn't know about them.

Butler didn't make Bam an Allstar, Bam did that himself,nor did he make Dragic a stud..etc and Butler wouldn't carry this Knicks team the way Randle has.

Oh boy, you really want to be right. Again, in the summer going into that season Miami was a still bunch of nobodies and Randle simply isn't in Butler's league. End of story. Relax.

[Clyde_Style]

RJ will be fine. He's shown plenty flashes throughout the year that shine light on how good he can be. It's going to take time for him to pull it all together as he sharpens his tools and adds more to his bag and then brings it all together. We've seen step backs, floaters, finishing in the paint through contact, getting to the line, catch and shoot jumpers, etc. Plenty of ways he's been able to score but still needs to become more consistent and that will come. He needs more offseason work to really get comfortable with using some moves. Not worried about him at all, we just need to keep finding the right pieces to put around him.

In his prime, RJ will be the Swiss Army Knife of NBA players. He'll have whatever tool you need to get the job done.

Guy is methodical, both in terms of drilling his skills and in his execution. He will not overwhelm with talent alone, but by how he pieces together his moves to outfox you.

What was once kind of boring to watch (for me personally) has become kind of fascinating as I see him continually expand his toolkit and watch him mix them up into winning moves.

Recently he has been dribbling from the side perimeter, backing his man down in the paint and then stepping back for an uncontested mid-range jumper. He just started doing this.

Once he breaks down all of the sequences he seeks to master, he'll have a set of variables that give him more options than 95% of the players in the league who usually depend on one or two patented moves tailored to their particular brand of athletic ability.

RJ is a different breed. Watch him grow and become something special.

[booyaka_jones]

Once again - the most recent "Generational" gotta have em talents in Ja and Zion - what are they doing with their current teams? They winning games? they getting to playoffs and winning chips? Terms like "loaded draft" and "Generation talent" are just meaningless buzzwords. This draft has potential like every draft does. I would love to have a top 5 pick, but what I refuse to do is pin my hopes and dreams on 19 year olds that point blank Thibs probably won't play more than 13 minutes anyway, let's be real. A true generational talent is a Lebron James, and true to the word, it really is once in a generation. Luka may be the closest to the next one (in terms of lottery picks) and I don't see him winning a championship on that team ever. We just need to stop putting all this pressure on 19 year olds cuz it's not fair to them as players.