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I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback

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I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#1 » by Nbabrothers » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:08 pm

I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback
I would start:
Noel
Randle
Burks
RJ
Rose

Then Quickley
Obi
Bullock
Yah

And waive Payton already. He SUCKS!!!
Who would be your starters a d bench players?
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#2 » by nedleeds » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:13 pm

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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#3 » by moocow007 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:14 pm

I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be (problem on the Knicks is that he's the starter).

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#4 » by mpharris36 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:16 pm

moocow007 wrote:I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be.

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).



I agree, I do think the knicks would be better off playing lineups that better compliment each other to combat there lack of talent compared to a lot of teams...but you are right Randle and RJ with Mitch out are the only 2 sure fire starters in the NBA.

IQ/Burks are probably the next closest but they are better suited for bench roles as well on a good team.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#5 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:55 pm

WTF is wrong with Elfrid Payton's fingers? They go in all kinds of directions. No wonder he can't shoot.

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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#6 » by TKKnicks1 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:21 pm

I blame about 75% of the problem on Payton. No fluidity, low BBIQ, no talent Payton. The other 25% I blame on Thibs for not adjusting to Paytons lack of fluidity, no BBIQ and lack of talent.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#7 » by F N 11 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:30 pm

Its all fun and games until we start losing to bad teams because of the bs.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#8 » by Clyde Frazier » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:41 pm

Today's "payton ruins the beginning of games" update:

Payton/Randle/RJ ON, 883 minutes, -3.15 net rating

Randle/RJ ON, Payton OFF, 520 minutes, +10.38 net rating
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#9 » by Montmorencie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:54 pm

Julius is getting tired. RJ is having one good and one bad game, which is normal. IQ is not playing as much as he should be. D-Rose is as usual injured most of the time. Mitch is a tall D-Rose.

And the rest are bums. You have Burks who's making a spectacular points performances from time to time at expense of so many bricks and wasted possessions.

We just lacking talent. We look better than it should be given the quality of our players. Sign talents or starts until we've got the momentum. Go all in in the summer.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#10 » by TKKnicks1 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:46 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Today's "payton ruins the beginning of games" update:

Payton/Randle/RJ ON, 883 minutes, -3.15 net rating

Randle/RJ ON, Payton OFF, 520 minutes, +10.38 net rating



:noway: Does the team not have advanced stats like this? They are the freakin NY Knicks. They have got to! Thats a plus 13 without Payton. In Biden's voice, come on man!
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#11 » by robillionaire » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:05 pm

Hey IQ it's the 4th quarter and you've played 8 whole minutes now go in there cold and win the game for us
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#12 » by Chanel Bomber » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:09 pm

TKKnicks1 wrote:I blame about 75% of the problem on Payton. No fluidity, low BBIQ, no talent Payton. The other 25% I blame on Thibs for not adjusting to Paytons lack of fluidity, no BBIQ and lack of talent.

I blame Thibs 40%, and the front office 60%.

Payton can't fix his lack of talent or BBIQ. He is who he is, and he's doing what he needs to do to survive in the NBA.

He shouldn't be put in this position in the first place, and that's on Thibs and Leon Rose.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#13 » by whocares1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:45 am

moocow007 wrote:I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be (problem on the Knicks is that he's the starter).

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).


Didn’t have to go in like that.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#14 » by Jeffrey » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:47 am

robillionaire wrote:Hey IQ it's the 4th quarter and you've played 8 whole minutes now go in there cold and win the game for us


He has ice in his veins right?
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#15 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:13 am

Think about how nice it would've been to have Christian Wood on our team only 3 years/$41M
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#16 » by 1999 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Think about how nice it would've been to have Christian Wood on our team only 3 years/$41M

Would’ve been nice but he’s been injured mostly so far this season.


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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#17 » by cooch2584 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:17 pm

ELF GOTTA GO!!!!
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#18 » by NewKnicks » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:34 pm

moocow007 wrote:I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be (problem on the Knicks is that he's the starter).

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).


Great post, and I agree 100%. We simply don't have a lot of talent across the roster. It's great that we're competing and winning a lot of games that maybe we shouldn't, but in the end it's going to hurt us. We need to add talent, and the only ways to do that is the draft/trades/free agency.

Because of us playing above our talent level, we've eliminated the possibility of landing top talent through the draft, so the only options we have are big trades or free agency. Considering our history in free agency, we're probably not going to have success going that route. It's possible, but it hasn't worked for 20 years. That leaves us with a blockbuster trade, and in that scenario we're going to have to give up 1 or 2 of Randle/RJ/Mitch/IQ. It sucks, but it is what it us.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#19 » by NewKnicks » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be.

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).



I agree, I do think the knicks would be better off playing lineups that better compliment each other to combat there lack of talent compared to a lot of teams...but you are right Randle and RJ with Mitch out are the only 2 sure fire starters in the NBA.

IQ/Burks are probably the next closest but they are better suited for bench roles as well on a good team.


A lot of people don't like to hear it, but I agree that IQ is best suited coming off the bench in that Lou Will type of role. I think this is going to be his best chance for him to excel in the league. If we're stacked with talent, having a microwave type player coming off the bench is something a lot of teams wish they had. These types of players are not easy to find, and we have one in IQ. Someone that can come in a give us a shot in the arm offensively. And if he's really hot, you keep him in the game for longer minutes.

People will probably flame the idea of keeping IQ as a sixth man, but I don't think they realize how valuable a player like that is. When the team is struggling for offense, bringing in a guy that can light up the scoreboard fast is such a luxury to have.
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Re: I’m tired of the starters always requiring bench to comeback 

Post#20 » by mpharris36 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:46 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:I think the problem is that other than Randle and Barrett everyone else on the Knicks team are backup caliber players. Noel is a career backup. Burks is a career backup. Rose at this point in his career is a backup. Bullock is a career backup. Taj is at 35 a 3rd string backup. Obi looks like he's never played ball before at times. Knox is a backup caliber player, at best, thus far. Payton is the poster child of what a backup PG should be.

When you start backup caliber players the expectation is that they will not perform nor be able to carry the starting burden. If, instead, you bring them off the bench, they are more comfortable and as such will do better.

The Knicks need more talent. And not in quantity, but rather quality. They don't need more Burks or Bullocks or pure 'shooters' or any of that jibbidy jibe. They need another top tier talent, a guard specifically, that can create shots for himself and others and be either the no.1 or, at the very least, no.1a/b option. That is what will take this team to another level. All the 'shooter's in the world isn't going to do the same cause at the end of the day, when the teams get better and everything gets tougher you need that one guy that can score regardless. The knicks do not have that guy (it's not Randle, it's not IQ, it's not Barrett).



I agree, I do think the knicks would be better off playing lineups that better compliment each other to combat there lack of talent compared to a lot of teams...but you are right Randle and RJ with Mitch out are the only 2 sure fire starters in the NBA.

IQ/Burks are probably the next closest but they are better suited for bench roles as well on a good team.


A lot of people don't like to hear it, but I agree that IQ is best suited coming off the bench in that Lou Will type of role. I think this is going to be his best chance for him to excel in the league. If we're stacked with talent, having a microwave type player coming off the bench is something a lot of teams wish they had. These types of players are not easy to find, and we have one in IQ. Someone that can come in a give us a shot in the arm offensively. And if he's really hot, you keep him in the game for longer minutes.

People will probably flame the idea of keeping IQ as a sixth man, but I don't think they realize how valuable a player like that is. When the team is struggling for offense, bringing in a guy that can light up the scoreboard fast is such a luxury to have.


I think most like the idea as IQ as the super 6th man but playing close to 25-30 mins per game. Not 16 minutes.

I think most want Rose to start to add a little more spacing and then just let IQ run the bench unit with Burks...Its more an issue with Payton being awful and even a worse fit with the starters.
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