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Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs

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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#501 » by ibraheim718 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:03 am

Phish Tank wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:
j4remi wrote:
I think the challenge on this play is that it's nuanced for sure. If I'm not mistaken, the play before was with RJ guarding him not Bullock but that's besides the point. Whoever it was gave up the baseline and Edwards reversed. So Bullock jumps the baseline and that forces Edwards to spin middle.

Check Taj on the play, he's trying to keep a hand on KAT and get between the play. If Edwards has to rise and take that fade away shot, Taj can make the play.

RJ did make a mistake there too, for sure (also ball watching imo). As he's watching the play, Beasley is in the corner and then switches with Rubio. I'm guessing he mixed the two up and was planning to deny the pass to the corner because he thought the better shooter was there. He looks like he wants to jump the passing lane but winds up in no-man's land instead with no chance to reach the shooter.

I wouldn't hate on Payton cheating off Rubio, but he's got too much time to end up at such a crap angle. He points out that he's cheating middle pretty early but sorta just floats. Then he's not in a position to trap the ball handler or cheat the passing lane. Edwards has too many damned options after Payton left RJ on an island for that long.


It is a tricky play in how it played out.

I just feel like you have to commit to the rotations. Barrett has to trust that one of his teammates will rotate over (in this case it was Bullock). Once Edwards gets into the lane the Knicks are at a disadvantage because of Towns ability to shoot the 3 he pulls the natural help defender and rim protection away from the bucket.

Ideally, Gibson helps.. Payton rotates over to Towns because that's where the ball would've went if Payton stays at home on Beasley and that still leaves you with Barrett having to rotate over to Beasley because Towns probably skips the ball to him or Rubio if RJ gets to Beasley in time.. and Bullock rotates from defending the Edwards drive onto Rubio and contests. If the rotations were quick enough who knows where that last shot comes from.


I saw the play again. I get Payton helping Edwards, but Barrett had to know Rubio can't shoot and needed to rotate faster onto Beasley... even being closer to the nail would have allowed him to potentially deflect a pass.

Barrett had a quite a few blunders in the last minute or so yesterday he's got to fix. Granted, he's only 20 years old, but when we're winning games, you have no choice but to learn quick.


He is still young. His season has been a lot like the perspective of Knicks fans. He wants to be great so bad that he's jumping the gun a little on how good he really is.. he's getting caught up in trash talk with older better players and gaining adversaries like Butler and Simmons much in the same way that Knick fans want to be good so bad they are jumping the gun propping a team up that is .500 in a weird pandemic year to a level that it hasn't really reached.

The excitement from fans and the media also give the franchise no incentive to do what it really takes to build a champion which is to find that number 1 guy that actually gives the team a chance to win it all. I honestly believe they think Julius Randle is that guy and that's crazy if you think about how easy it is to spot his achilles heels which all undermine the team at the end of games.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#502 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:13 am

This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#503 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:33 am

RJ gotta wait a whole year now to respond to this.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#504 » by DOT » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:34 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
Read on Twitter

F*cker stole my fun fact from the pod last night

RJ is 2nd in shots blocked, Randle is tied for 8th, and Elfrid is tied for 6th

RJ and Randle actually kind of make sense cause they're 27th and 11th in total FGA

Elfrid is 85th, and only 5 guys have had their shots blocked more than him this year. Insane.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#505 » by DaGawd » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:51 am

Knicks Byke wrote:RJ gotta wait a whole year now to respond to this.

Good.. cause he’s not ready yet. Hope he really works on his in between game heavy this coming off season
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#506 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:03 am

K-DOT wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
Read on Twitter

F*cker stole my fun fact from the pod last night

RJ is 2nd in shots blocked, Randle is tied for 8th, and Elfrid is tied for 6th

RJ and Randle actually kind of make sense cause they're 27th and 11th in total FGA

Elfrid is 85th, and only 5 guys have had their shots blocked more than him this year. Insane.


I didn't get a chance to listen to that one. That's a crazy stat but not really surprising. I wonder if there block percentage goes down without Payton in the lineup? Good find on that one

Maybe a sign you guys are picking up more listeners if they are stealing your fun facts
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#507 » by BBALLER4FR » Fri Apr 2, 2021 2:55 am

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:lol: This fukkin team man. So bright early in the season now things look dim. Rose is unreliable. Derrick...Leon....pick one.
Those last 70 seconds, Randle in a nut shell.

Awful 2 for 1 3PT attempt when we are up 2
Doesn’t close out on Sabonis --> open 3
Takes another side step off balance 3

We got sucked into the Randle vortex where all good feelings go to die.

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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#508 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:25 am

It's that time of the year when Knicks fans lose their minds and the forum goes completely to hell :lol:
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#509 » by Buttah304 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:26 am

Cookies4Life wrote:Truth be told we only have 1 really good player on this team in Randle and he had to undergo a metamorphosis to become the player he is going into his 7th season. That rarely happens in this league for someone to develop so much later on.

I like RJ but he doesn't look like an All star caliber type of player. He plays a LOT of minutes and is allowed to hoist as many shots as his heart desires; there's many players in this league that could put up similar stat lines if given the kind of minutes RJ gets.

My biggest concern with Barrett is he lacks speed and athleticism. The kid does not have much of a vertical; I remember Westbrook blocking him dam near 5 times when the Knicks played the Wizards. It's worrisome to say the least, people can mention his age all they want but the kid lacks explosiveness and he doesn't play above the rim. He's going to have improve greatly a s shooter to be able to reach even a borderline AS level.

As far as Thibs goes, he clearly hasn't evolved in his coaching philosophy whatsoever; he has his favorites and he's going to ride them until the wheels fall off. He's a good coach for a rebuilding situation I suppose since he gives some of the young guys good minutes but this isn't a guy who I'd want on this roster if we actually become perennial contenders down the road.

We have depth on this squad but we lack top-tier talent. I'm happy we're a .500 team, it's refreshing and all but this team looks like a play-in team at the very best. Out of all the years this team tanked- whether purposely or accidentally- this was the year to suck and ascertain a high draft pick.


Playing above the rim doesn’t make you an all star. Having your highlight viewed over and over again on ESPN doesn’t mean you have insane potential. That’s not RJ’s game at all.

In the month of March he just put up the following:

20.2 PPG
5.9 RPG
3.8 APG
47% FG

He’s also been shooting over 40% from 3PT over the last 2 months and on the year he’s putting up 17.5-6-3 on 45% FG and 35% 3PT. He’s also becoming a very good defender in his own right. Of course he’s going to have mental lapses and the one thing I’ve personally seen that frustrates me at times is that he’s not very good at closing out on the 3PT shooter. But he’s 20. I don’t know how many times this has to be said. His game has already evolved so much and he hasn’t scratched the surface as to how good he will be.

Would you prefer it if he was scoring 17.3 PPG on 16.5 shots while shooting 39% FG and 30% from 3PT on a whopping 7 attempts with 2.5 assists to 2 turnovers? Would you prefer it if he was also a lazy defender with a poor IQ whose shown exactly that all season long?. Because that’s Anthony Edwards in case you were wondering.

You talk about RJ just “hoisting up shots” and anyone can get theirs doing that. Yet he’s on a 25-25 team, who is much better than expected as their second best player.

If we’re talking about jacking up awful shots and leading your team to endless losses then look no further than Anthony Edwards.

This grass is always greener nonsense is just a bunch of garbage.

Appreciate the fact that we have a potential rising 2 way star in this league. It’s not that hard to do so.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#510 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:02 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
Read on Twitter


Doesn’t help when Noel picks horrific angles so his man is there to help every time. Gtfo the way Noel. Only reason why Randle makes it work is b/c he’s shooting lights out.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Spoiler:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128

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Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#511 » by Buttah304 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:11 am

dakomish23 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
Read on Twitter


Doesn’t help when Noel picks horrific angles so his man is there to help every time. Gtfo the way Noel. Only reason why Randle makes it work is b/c he’s shooting lights out.


While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#512 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:17 am

Buttah304 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:This may have been posted somewhere. Another stat for Elfrid
Read on Twitter


Doesn’t help when Noel picks horrific angles so his man is there to help every time. Gtfo the way Noel. Only reason why Randle makes it work is b/c he’s shooting lights out.


While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.


I wish. We all do. It’s insane Randle and RJB are even doing this now
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Spoiler:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128





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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#513 » by Buttah304 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:22 am

dakomish23 wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Doesn’t help when Noel picks horrific angles so his man is there to help every time. Gtfo the way Noel. Only reason why Randle makes it work is b/c he’s shooting lights out.


While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.


I wish. We all do. It’s insane Randle and RJB are even doing this now


Fingers crossed that the front office has an actual rock solid plan this summer with all of that cap space. They should be prepping for it like their jobs are on the line. Even if the “superstars” aren’t available there are still damn good players to be had. Hard to put faith in the Knicks but a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#514 » by dakomish23 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:13 am

Buttah304 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:
While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.


I wish. We all do. It’s insane Randle and RJB are even doing this now


Fingers crossed that the front office has an actual rock solid plan this summer with all of that cap space. They should be prepping for it like their jobs are on the line. Even if the “superstars” aren’t available there are still damn good players to be had. Hard to put faith in the Knicks but a broken clock is right twice a day.


We’ve extra picks. We’ve got cap space. If we come back with this backcourt rotation of guys, the FO has failed.

My fear is they think all they need is Ball. Put all the resources into the backcourt. Maybe after getting a few, I’d swing for the fences on a monster 3 big rotation
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Spoiler:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128





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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#515 » by Reign23 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:40 am

Buttah304 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:
While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.


I wish. We all do. It’s insane Randle and RJB are even doing this now


Fingers crossed that the front office has an actual rock solid plan this summer with all of that cap space. They should be prepping for it like their jobs are on the line. Even if the “superstars” aren’t available there are still damn good players to be had. Hard to put faith in the Knicks but a broken clock is right twice a day.

yeah I bet their rock solid plan includes 5 mediocre vets on 1 year deals.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#516 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:36 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:It's that time of the year when Knicks fans lose their minds and the forum goes completely to hell :lol:


Otherwise known as "My Favorite Time of Year" :D
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#517 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Apr 2, 2021 12:44 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:It's that time of the year when Knicks fans lose their minds and the forum goes completely to hell :lol:


Otherwise known as "My Favorite Time of Year" :D


aka Friday night (credit to ITGM)

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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#518 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:11 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Buttah304 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Doesn’t help when Noel picks horrific angles so his man is there to help every time. Gtfo the way Noel. Only reason why Randle makes it work is b/c he’s shooting lights out.


While we would love to get a Zach LaVine or Damian Lillard type it’s not that hard to imagine how much better and more crisp our offensive execution would be with players even 2 tiers above Payton and Bullock. For example, insert Lonzo Ball and Norman Powell next to RJ and Randle (two 40% three point shooters on volumes of 7-8 threes a game) and we would never be talking about “spacing” again.


I wish. We all do. It’s insane Randle and RJB are even doing this now


Lets do this

Lonzo/Rose
Powell/IQ
RJ/Knox
Randle/Obit
Mitch/?

Possible incoming: Knicks 2021 #1, Mavs 2021 #1, Detroit 2021 2nd rounder



Lonzo - 22 million?
Rose - 8 million
Powell - 25 million?
IQ - 2.2 million
RJ - 8.6 million
Randle - 19.8 million
Obit - 5.1 million
Mitch - 1.8 million
Knox - 5.8 million
Noah stretch - 6.4 million

118 million, plus the approximate 7.5 million for the draft picks is 125 million.
I guess Knicks would have to get Lonzo and Powell for about 5 million less between the two of them.
Knicks could not pay DRose 8 million but I doubt Thibs, or really any coach, is fine just having Lonzo and IQ as the PGs, without a vet.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#519 » by Cookies4Life » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:14 pm

Buttah304 wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:Truth be told we only have 1 really good player on this team in Randle and he had to undergo a metamorphosis to become the player he is going into his 7th season. That rarely happens in this league for someone to develop so much later on.

I like RJ but he doesn't look like an All star caliber type of player. He plays a LOT of minutes and is allowed to hoist as many shots as his heart desires; there's many players in this league that could put up similar stat lines if given the kind of minutes RJ gets.

My biggest concern with Barrett is he lacks speed and athleticism. The kid does not have much of a vertical; I remember Westbrook blocking him dam near 5 times when the Knicks played the Wizards. It's worrisome to say the least, people can mention his age all they want but the kid lacks explosiveness and he doesn't play above the rim. He's going to have improve greatly a s shooter to be able to reach even a borderline AS level.

As far as Thibs goes, he clearly hasn't evolved in his coaching philosophy whatsoever; he has his favorites and he's going to ride them until the wheels fall off. He's a good coach for a rebuilding situation I suppose since he gives some of the young guys good minutes but this isn't a guy who I'd want on this roster if we actually become perennial contenders down the road.

We have depth on this squad but we lack top-tier talent. I'm happy we're a .500 team, it's refreshing and all but this team looks like a play-in team at the very best. Out of all the years this team tanked- whether purposely or accidentally- this was the year to suck and ascertain a high draft pick.


Playing above the rim doesn’t make you an all star. Having your highlight viewed over and over again on ESPN doesn’t mean you have insane potential. That’s not RJ’s game at all.

In the month of March he just put up the following:

20.2 PPG


5.9 RPG
3.8 APG
47% FG

He’s also been shooting over 40% from 3PT over the last 2 months and on the year he’s putting up 17.5-6-3 on 45% FG and 35% 3PT. He’s also becoming a very good defender in his own right. Of course he’s going to have mental lapses and the one thing I’ve personally seen that frustrates me at times is that he’s not very good at closing out on the 3PT shooter. But he’s 20. I don’t know how many times this has to be said. His game has already evolved so much and he hasn’t scratched the surface as to how good he will be.

Would you prefer it if he was scoring 17.3 PPG on 16.5 shots while shooting 39% FG and 30% from 3PT on a whopping 7 attempts with 2.5 assists to 2 turnovers? Would you prefer it if he was also a lazy defender with a poor IQ whose shown exactly that all season long?. Because that’s Anthony Edwards in case you were wondering.

You talk about RJ just “hoisting up shots” and anyone can get theirs doing that. Yet he’s on a 25-25 team, who is much better than expected as their second best player.

If we’re talking about jacking up awful shots and leading your team to endless losses then look no further than Anthony Edwards.

This grass is always greener nonsense is just a bunch of garbage.

Appreciate the fact that we have a potential rising 2 way star in this league. It’s not that hard to do so.



He's shooting 2 percentage points higher behind the arc this year from last year at the same number of shot attempts. You feel comfortable with him hoisting up 7-8 3PA's per game like the elite 2 guards in this league do?

Fact of the matter is, teams don't gameplan just yet for RJ Barrett. You see that guy getting double or triple teamed?

His shot is not good, plain and simple. He has no post up game, his mid range game is "evolving" at best and he gets a lot of his baskets going into the lane when he's able to go LEFT. Teams by next year will start packing the paint against the guy and force him to do something outside in the midrange or behind the arc.

He is an improving player, no doubt about it, his FT% has markedly improved so that's a nice start. But that kid is not a 2nd option on any team in this league looking to win. He's received every chance with this organization to play 35 minutes plus per game. A lot of guys could put up those stat lines in this league if given the "green light" as I mentioned before.

You have your viewpoint and I respect it, but if you're telling me with a straight face you'd rather have RJ Barrett than some of these young prospects coming out of the draft- a Cunningham, Kuminga, Suggs, than I don't know what to tell you. Those kids could be franchise changing players for whatever teams develop him.

And thank you for your rudimentary analysis on his lack of athleticism and speed will have no baring on him ascending to AS status. At this juncture he's the jack of SOME trades and the master of absolutely nothing. Westbrook embarassed him just a week ago, a 6"3 guy was swatting anything RJ was trying to put up in the fast break.

He's slow and unathletic. When you play below the rim and the majority of your shots come from you driving in the paint, that's a recipe for disaster. Especially when teams will eventually start game-planning for him by next year at the very latest.

Let's not make him out ot be James Harden, and at least Harden is more athletic than he was at the same age and had a bit more of a burst of speed. It's cumbersome that a lot of fans want to downplay this kids weaknesses and just assume he's going to evolve into this 2 way monster.

I do agree he's become a better defender, a good portion of that has to do with his strength but I've definitely seen improvements on that end. He's no stalwart on that side of the ball, but he's improved.

He is who he is; I don't feel comfortable with him taking the last shot in a game, I don't feel comfortable anytime he hoists up shots behind the arc. When he's attempting afast break and going to the lane it's become clear now that outside of that little eurostep move where he ends up going left that he's someone you can shut down when needed.

He's had plenty of awful games this year, his #'s look respectable because of a lot of open layups he's been able to receive.

What do I know though, I just have been watching basketball for over 30 years. Surely you have a better grasp at the intracicies of basketball.
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Re: Knicks - Wolves PG: Thanks for the loss Thibs 

Post#520 » by Cookies4Life » Fri Apr 2, 2021 1:21 pm

To add to that, RJ shoots his 3's when he's WIDE open. You see him putting up 3's when he's contested?

He's the same kind of player he was since he was at Duke. He was able to outmuscle everyone in college and it made him look a lot better than he was. I remember Rui blocking the crap out of him when he was with the Zags and securing a victory when RJ should've handed the ball over to the true alpha of the team, Zion.

My gosh what our squad would look like had Mt. Zion come here instead. The only true star on this team is Julius Randle. And that was a shocking evolution to see from a guy in his 7th season.

RJ is good for where he is at this point in his career, but if you think he's going to continue to evolve and put up better numbers if he doesn't improve on many facets of his offensive game, you're deluding yourself. His lack of speed and athleticism essentially forces his hand to become a much more dexterous offensive player. As I said jack of some trades and the master of absolutely nothing. The paint is eventually going to close down on that guy soon and he's going to have to do something else with the ball instead of attempting his left handed layups which half the time aren't even contested.

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