Fire Thibodeau

[Synciere]

LOL

[prophet_of_rage]

Fire Thibs during the congratulation call for winning COTY

Masai did this and won a ring the next year

He also got Kawhi Leonard on top of a solid contending team.

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[nyknicks8016]

What if Kenny overachieved?

Lol exactly. Kenny had a reputation as a development guru.. what if he did the same thing Thibs did and got Barrett and Randle to play the best ball of their career and Quickley looked the same or better than he does right now with him.. then we should’ve hired someone else??

Rather take the chance overachieving with Kenny than be where we’re at now which is no man’s land.

At least Kenny would be playing & living with the results of the youngins. You think Payton would still be playing the minutes as he has been? The offense would also look much better as well.

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

[DaGawd]

Lol exactly. Kenny had a reputation as a development guru.. what if he did the same thing Thibs did and got Barrett and Randle to play the best ball of their career and Quickley looked the same or better than he does right now with him.. then we should’ve hired someone else??

Rather take the chance overachieving with Kenny than be where we’re at now which is no man’s land.

At least Kenny would be playing & living with the results of the youngins. You think Payton would still be playing the minutes as he has been? The offense would also look much better as well.

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

Some of these fans are too blinded by the idea of tanking.. this team is set up in excellent position. Young acscending players, cap space, all their draft picks and then some.. there’s really not any downside

[waya]

Kenny Atkinson's first season with the Nets (a 20 win season):

[DaGawd]

Kenny Atkinson's first season with the Nets (a 20 win season):

So much for living with the results of the young players

[snadler]

Frustration over Thibs playing Payton so many minutes is well deserved, but on the other hand, having this team 25-25 after 50 games is one of the greatest coaching jobs in the NBA..what we don’t see obviously is thibs work ethic off the court and in between games, his ability to get Max effort out of this group is incredible. Despite my negativity on certain losses, this is the brightest this Knicks franchise has looked in basically forever, and that includes the coach

[snadler]

In reality outside of a few teams that can obviously win a ring this year, we might have the most promising 5 year outlook of anyone, with so many picks, cap space, young talent and coaching

[JBreezeNY]

Lol exactly. Kenny had a reputation as a development guru.. what if he did the same thing Thibs did and got Barrett and Randle to play the best ball of their career and Quickley looked the same or better than he does right now with him.. then we should’ve hired someone else??

Rather take the chance overachieving with Kenny than be where we’re at now which is no man’s land.

At least Kenny would be playing & living with the results of the youngins. You think Payton would still be playing the minutes as he has been? The offense would also look much better as well.

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

That 50 million is going towards re-signing our players.

Those 1sts that you mention include protected picks including our own picks that will NOT be in lottery...which is asinine considering these next two drafts will have amazing talent in the lottery.

You build your team with your first option, what we’re doing is backwards. We don’t have a 3rd option.

We are stuck between not being good enough to go deep in the playoffs & not being bad enough to get franchise changing talent.

No man’s land.

All Those “assets” you mention is what a car salesman would do when they have to upsell, it’s not as good as you think it is.

[JBreezeNY]

Kenny Atkinson's first season with the Nets (a 20 win season):

What is this supposed to prove exactly?

[JBreezeNY]

Rather take the chance overachieving with Kenny than be where we’re at now which is no man’s land.

At least Kenny would be playing & living with the results of the youngins. You think Payton would still be playing the minutes as he has been? The offense would also look much better as well.

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

Some of these fans are too blinded by the idea of tanking.. this team is set up in excellent position. Young acscending players, cap space, all their draft picks and then some.. there’s really not any downside

Again, these are buzzwords.

You’re speaking surface level.

I’ve explained numerous times with you in previous threads but you either act obtuse or you’re not understanding what I’m saying.

The team on the outside looks set up to be great but when you sit down and really look at what the team could be in 5 years, how we’ll be spending our money, where our picks will land, which talent we will miss out on, it’s extremely concerning. Then you combine how Thibs rotates his players, the team that Thibs wants, the minutes he plays players it’s all leading to a team that is good enough to make the playoffs and that’s it.

The conversation needs to be made of are you and anybody else just happy to respectable (making the playoffs, maybe get a B player to come here thru trade), or do you want to win a title (amass as much talent as possible, use every resource through trades, the draft & free agent, build team properly with an actual 1st option).

We’re building the team around Randle, people can say no, no, we’re just waiting for a better talent but when KAT, etc turns us down just like Giannis, just like Durant, just like Lebron, just like Kawhi, then maybe you’ll finally get it. Once again I’m not saying you entirely build a team through the draft/tanking, I am saying when their is a year to tank, you tank. Especially when players continually turn us down. You also try to make trades to help elevate the team which I can semi give the Knicks props for attempting.

[DaGawd]

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

Some of these fans are too blinded by the idea of tanking.. this team is set up in excellent position. Young acscending players, cap space, all their draft picks and then some.. there’s really not any downside

Again, these are buzzwords.

You’re speaking surface level.

I’ve explained numerous times with you in previous threads but you either act obtuse or pretend you’re not understanding what I’m saying.

The team on the outside looks set up to be great but when you sit down and really look at what the team could be in 5 years, how we’ll be spending our money, where our picks will land, which talent we will miss out on, it’s extremely concerning. Then you combine how Thibs rotates his players, the team that Thibs wants, the minutes he plays players it’s all leading to a team that is good enough to make the playoffs and that’s it.

The conversation needs to be made of are you and anybody else just happy to respectable (making the playoffs, maybe get a B player to come here thru trade), or do you want to win a title (amass as much talent as possible, use every resource through trades, the draft & free agent, build team properly with an actual 1st option).

Plenty of teams have built without having a clear first option tho.. right now our first option is Randle.. RJ being the second. If either can get to the point eventually where they’re a number 1 on a title team? Who knows. Clearly we aren’t there yet we need more talent. But I don’t think you have to completely tank your way to acquiring talent year in and year out. We’ll agree to disagree on this topic tho. I’m done discussing it

[JBreezeNY]

Some of these fans are too blinded by the idea of tanking.. this team is set up in excellent position. Young acscending players, cap space, all their draft picks and then some.. there’s really not any downside

Again, these are buzzwords.

You’re speaking surface level.

I’ve explained numerous times with you in previous threads but you either act obtuse or pretend you’re not understanding what I’m saying.

The team on the outside looks set up to be great but when you sit down and really look at what the team could be in 5 years, how we’ll be spending our money, where our picks will land, which talent we will miss out on, it’s extremely concerning. Then you combine how Thibs rotates his players, the team that Thibs wants, the minutes he plays players it’s all leading to a team that is good enough to make the playoffs and that’s it.

The conversation needs to be made of are you and anybody else just happy to respectable (making the playoffs, maybe get a B player to come here thru trade), or do you want to win a title (amass as much talent as possible, use every resource through trades, the draft & free agent, build team properly with an actual 1st option).

Plenty of teams have built without having a clear first option tho.. right now our first option is Randle.. RJ being the second. If either can get to the point eventually where they’re a number 1 on a title team? Who knows. Clearly we aren’t there yet we need more talent. But I don’t think you have to completely tank your way to acquiring talent year in and year out

Fam...I don’t care about other teams.

I care about the Knicks.

Im not saying you tank year in, year out.

How many times do I have to say this?

Randle & RJ may be placeholder first & second options but in order to compete they cannot be your first and second options.

We are re-signing Randle soon, we have to make a decision on who he is as a player, the same with getting a 1st option over here (which we won’t get).

I understand the optimism, I truly do, I’ve been super optimistic on here for years...but we need to be realistic and have honest conversations about this.

[Jimmit79]

Dolan hires FO who build trash team and coach gets blamed for it Dolan and FO don't get fingers pointed at them ever it's the ppl who have to work with what they got but Knicks fans will never learn it's been two decades change the owner not the employees.

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[waya]

Kenny Atkinson's first season with the Nets (a 20 win season):

What is this supposed to prove exactly?

All the Kenny truthers look at what he did in three years and assume it was like that from the jump. In his first year, guys like Harris, Dinwiddie and Levert were basically getting the same amount of minutes that IQ gets right now.

If we didn’t have three or four kids under the age of 22-23 getting impactful minutes (granted Mitch can’t stay healthy) while we play .500 ball, I'd be right there with you with my pitchfork.. but that’s not the case. We have a 20-year old who’s played the fourth most minutes in the entire league and he’s been getting better and better so I’m content.

[JBreezeNY]

Kenny Atkinson's first season with the Nets (a 20 win season):

What is this supposed to prove exactly?

All the Kenny truthers look at what he did in three years and assume it was like that from the jump. In his first year, guys like Harris, Dinwiddie and Levert were basically getting the same amount of minutes that IQ gets right now.

If we didn’t have three or four kids under the age of 22-23 getting impactful minutes (granted Mitch can’t stay healthy) while we play .500 ball, I'd be right there with you with my pitchfork.. but that’s not the case. We have a 20-year old who’s played the fourth most minutes in the entire league and he’s been getting better and better so I’m content.

Fair.

Appreciate the context you gave.

[Chanel Bomber]

In reality outside of a few teams that can obviously win a ring this year, we might have the most promising 5 year outlook of anyone, with so many picks, cap space, young talent and coaching

I'm not so sure.

I think we're in an "ok" position to build towards the future, yet it seems like a "great" situation because the bar had been set so low by this franchise that "ok" feels like the best thing ever.

Fact is, besides Kawhi who's a long shot, and maybe Lavine who isn't a superstar yet, there isn't gonna be any superstar free agent on the market, or not until after we will have had to resign our own players (RJ, Mitch and Randle), which will eat up a significant part of our cap and hurt our flexibility in free agency moving forward.

We're gonna need one of our guys to make a superstar leap (Randle, RJ or IQ) or hit big through the draft and find the next Kawhi, Giannis or Bam in the 12-16 range. But it's like searching for a needle in a hay stack, and those guys usually take a few years before showing their true potential.

Or we sign Zion in 5-6 years. I actually think attracting Zion is the most realistic path to a championship for the Knicks, but that shouldn't stop this organization from building in the meantime. And it's not a given he'll even be interested. But let's not downplay the fact that we have RJ and that Zion is stuck in NO.

The NBA might be headed towards an era without truly dominant players like LeBron, Curry, Shaq or MJ in 3-4 years, meaning it could be more wide open than ever, which would give teams like the 2020 Heat (without a superstar) a higher chance of winning the chip. So keep building, but keep an eye on Zion.

[bigknickenergy]

I got to be honest here boys. First time that i'm in these forums in a long time and pretty ashamed to see that there is a "fire Thibodeau" thread.

[DOT]

In reality outside of a few teams that can obviously win a ring this year, we might have the most promising 5 year outlook of anyone, with so many picks, cap space, young talent and coaching

I'm not so sure.

I think we're in an "ok" position to build towards the future, yet it seems like a "great" situation because the bar had been set so low by this franchise that "ok" feels like the best thing ever.

Fact is, besides Kawhi who's a long shot, and maybe Lavine who isn't a superstar yet, there isn't gonna be any superstar free agent on the market, or not until after we will have had to resign our own players (RJ, Mitch and Randle), which will eat up a significant part of our cap and hurt our flexibility in free agency moving forward.

We're gonna need one of our guys to make a superstar leap (Randle, RJ or IQ) or hit big through the draft and find the next Kawhi, Giannis or Bam in the 12-16 range. But it's like searching for a needle in a hay stack, and those guys usually take a few years before showing their true potential.

Or we sign Zion in 5-6 years. I actually think attracting Zion is the most realistic path to a championship for the Knicks, but that shouldn't stop this organization from building in the meantime. And it's not a given he'll even be interested. But let's not downplay the fact that we have RJ and that Zion is stuck in NO.

The NBA might be headed towards an era without truly dominant players like LeBron, Curry, Shaq or MJ in 3-4 years, meaning it could be more wide open than ever, which would give teams like the 2020 Heat (without a superstar) a higher chance of winning the chip. So keep building, but keep an eye on Zion.

Yeah, I've talked about this on the pod quite a bit, but we still need a true #1 who can create off the dribble from the perimeter

For as great as Randle has been, you can just see the gap in talent in close games when we play guys like Curry or Harden, even Giannis in what they can do. The hope is that RJ develops into that (and he's on his way there, but it'll be a while), but if he doesn't, there's really nobody on the team right now that can. Quick has an outside shot at it due to his play style, but he'd need to improve exponentially, so I wouldn't count on him becoming the guy

I think so long as we continue to make good picks in the late first/early 2nd, and continue to grow the young guys already on the roster, we'll end up more on the Heat side of the Magic-Heat line (being that both teams are similar in strategy, but the Heat pulled it off where the Magic failed), and hopefully we can keep our flexibility to sign (or the assets to trade for) a star in the next few years

We're in a good position. Not a great one, but a good one, but it's always so hard to tell. Like, go back to 2016 and tell people that the Nets would be in contention before the Wolves and nobody would take you seriously. Wolves had KAT, LaVine, Wiggins (when all were considered really good to great prospects) as well as a top 5 pick. Everybody had them being at the top of the league for years to come, but that never materialized, while the Nets had no young players to speak of, no picks, and the only guy of note was really BroLo. Point is, 5 years is a long time, and things can really change.

[Zenzibar]

Rather take the chance overachieving with Kenny than be where we’re at now which is no man’s land.

At least Kenny would be playing & living with the results of the youngins. You think Payton would still be playing the minutes as he has been? The offense would also look much better as well.

How are they in no mans land? They have 5 1sts in the next 3 drsfts and 50 million in cap space plus a young roster with at minimum a 2nd and 3rd option on it already..That is not no mans land that is an ascending team..

No mans land is an 8 seed capped out team with no way to improve..

That 50 million is going towards re-signing our players.

Those 1sts that you mention include protected picks including our own picks that will NOT be in lottery...which is asinine considering these next two drafts will have amazing talent in the lottery.

You build your team with your first option, what we’re doing is backwards. We don’t have a 3rd option.

We are stuck between not being good enough to go deep in the playoffs & not being bad enough to get franchise changing talent.

No man’s land.

All Those “assets” you mention is what a car salesman would do when they have to upsell, it’s not as good as you think it is.

What would be your alternative world for the Knicks?