ImageImageImageImageImage

PG: Lack fundamentals

Moderators: K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK

User avatar
nyczlegacy
Analyst
Posts: 3,324
And1: 538
Joined: Mar 28, 2009

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#441 » by nyczlegacy » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:27 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Read on Twitter


No RJ or Mitch


disrespectful. RJ absolutely deserves to be on the list

the rankings were a composite of the ranking from Mike Schmitz, Bobby Marks, Kevin Pelton: both Schmitz (24) and Marks (22) had RJ in the top 25, and Pelton had IQ (24), but not RJ



espn is ranked lower than the onion in my opinion

pure dog ****
god shammgod wrote:didn't watch a minute. it feels good. might not watch more than a game or two for the rest of the season. there's nothing to see. our best player is a midget g-leaguer.
Jeff Van Gully
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 23,028
And1: 17,656
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
     

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#442 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:02 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:what record do some of you think this team should have? just being real... when the season started you thought our record after 51 games would be:

some tough losses in some tough games. hard to be mad at this group that's doing everything overachieving with house money. this is the right direction for the identity of the group. the limitations are basically now ones of talent, which can be addressed by the FO.

The limitations are more than just talent. They are also philosophical, if not entirely psychological when it comes to Thibs. A front office and a head coach who think it's perfectly reasonable to start a non-shooting, non-defending point guard despite there being better options signal that they might not be in tune with the way basketball is played in 2021, or that they might just be a step slow. That's a major red flag for me. Leon Rose had the opportunity to address this issue in the off-season and before the deadline. And Thibs has enough guards to manufacture a Frankenstein backcourt that operates more efficiently than what he's stuck to all year. Yet nothing has happened.

I maintain that this team isn't as good as its record suggests either, because of strength of schedule and because the team has been less hit by injuries/COVID protocol than a lot of its opponents. The idea of the play-in tournament gives the impression that this is a playoff team, but I'd be very surprised if this team finished in the top 8 in the East.

My point is, with a neutral strength of schedule, and an equal distribution of injuries, I think this club with these rotations is clearly a sub-.500 team. With some tweaks to the rotation, and a front office that's more proactive in addressing some of the issues we have at key positions, this team could actually be a legit .500 team.

One of the biggest things holding this franchise back and (in my opinion) clouding the judgement of a lot of Knicks fans (not you) is low expectations.


I’m with you on the elf thing. Team looks to be shooting better and more often from long range.

I totally get watching the frustrating things about thibs and being... frustrated. But to be mad at him too long is to discredit that he’s the reason we’re not a heaping pile of dog schidt. Instead we look like a playoff team.

Dude is spinning straw into gold. Then maybe making a couple of bad watches?
RIP magnumt

welcome home, thibs.
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 61,026
And1: 32,793
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#443 » by F N 11 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:13 pm

“The last play has three different options and obviously he is the focal point,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “He has two other reads that he can go to. I thought he got a good look at it.”

Didnt expect Randle to pass but would like to see him make game wining passes in the future.
Ntilikina/Knox/Mitch/RJ ARMY
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
User avatar
F N 11
RealGM
Posts: 61,026
And1: 32,793
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Getting over screens with Gusto.
Contact:
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#444 » by F N 11 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:26 pm

lets not forget Payton waved off the double saying "He got him" according to Clyde. These are the days folks.
Ntilikina/Knox/Mitch/RJ ARMY
amit wrote:Frank prime will be like 10 ppg. Hes not that kind of PG and we knew it since he got drafted. Thats why scorers players around frank will be the bast for him
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,051
And1: 11,604
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#445 » by Chanel Bomber » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:31 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:what record do some of you think this team should have? just being real... when the season started you thought our record after 51 games would be:

some tough losses in some tough games. hard to be mad at this group that's doing everything overachieving with house money. this is the right direction for the identity of the group. the limitations are basically now ones of talent, which can be addressed by the FO.

The limitations are more than just talent. They are also philosophical, if not entirely psychological when it comes to Thibs. A front office and a head coach who think it's perfectly reasonable to start a non-shooting, non-defending point guard despite there being better options signal that they might not be in tune with the way basketball is played in 2021, or that they might just be a step slow. That's a major red flag for me. Leon Rose had the opportunity to address this issue in the off-season and before the deadline. And Thibs has enough guards to manufacture a Frankenstein backcourt that operates more efficiently than what he's stuck to all year. Yet nothing has happened.

I maintain that this team isn't as good as its record suggests either, because of strength of schedule and because the team has been less hit by injuries/COVID protocol than a lot of its opponents. The idea of the play-in tournament gives the impression that this is a playoff team, but I'd be very surprised if this team finished in the top 8 in the East.

My point is, with a neutral strength of schedule, and an equal distribution of injuries, I think this club with these rotations is clearly a sub-.500 team. With some tweaks to the rotation, and a front office that's more proactive in addressing some of the issues we have at key positions, this team could actually be a legit .500 team.

One of the biggest things holding this franchise back and (in my opinion) clouding the judgement of a lot of Knicks fans (not you) is low expectations.


I’m with you on the elf thing. Team looks to be shooting better and more often from long range.

I totally get watching the frustrating things about thibs and being... frustrated. But to be mad at him too long is to discredit that he’s the reason we’re not a heaping pile of dog schidt. Instead we look like a playoff team.

Dude is spinning straw into gold. Then maybe making a couple of bad watches?

That's where we disagree, I guess.

This is not gold we're getting. At best, he's turning straw into bronze. Or good old reliable metal.

Which goes back to my point about low expectations. Is Thibs really doing a great job and getting the most out of this roster, or did he simply inherit a mediocre roster that underperformed under Fizdale (the worst coach in the NBA) and Miller (a G-League coach) and then naturally became respectable with an actual NBA head coach at the helm and with the improvement of the young guys particularly RJ and Mitch?

The team was a heaping pile of dog chit under Fizdale. And Fizdale shouldn't be the standard based on which we judge Thibs, because he was so bad.

Thibs deserves credit for implementing a defensive system and having all the players buy in. He has changed culture, for the better. Not every head coach can do that, and that's why he's credible and deserves to coach this team. But I think about half of the NBA HCs could've gotten the team this far. Thibs an average NBA HC in my view. Maybe top 13-15 range. I don't think it warrants an ovation. It's the minimum the Knicks should be aiming for.
Image
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 12,384
And1: 7,403
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#446 » by RHODEY » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:11 pm

User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 62,981
And1: 24,829
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#447 » by KnicksGod » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:14 pm

F N 11 wrote:lets not forget Payton waved off the double saying "He got him" according to Clyde. These are the days folks.


The dude is a stone cold loser.
Semi-retired Knicks fan. Image
NYKat
General Manager
Posts: 9,231
And1: 2,646
Joined: Sep 30, 2009

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#448 » by NYKat » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:40 am

RHODEY wrote:


From Knick hating ass RJ that means something!
snadler
Veteran
Posts: 2,726
And1: 2,697
Joined: Feb 16, 2009

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#449 » by snadler » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:17 am

NYKat wrote:
RHODEY wrote:


From Knick hating ass RJ that means something!


This video is proof even in a positive spin ESPN doesn’t know anything about the Knicks, really a silver lining blowing a double digit second half lead to Kyrie and backups, not to mention this was one night where I actually question their effort, the lack of hustle on loose ball rebounds was the difference in the game, nets backups wanted it more.
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 62,981
And1: 24,829
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#450 » by KnicksGod » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:43 am

snadler wrote:
NYKat wrote:
RHODEY wrote:


From Knick hating ass RJ that means something!


This video is proof even in a positive spin ESPN doesn’t know anything about the Knicks, really a silver lining blowing a double digit second half lead to Kyrie and backups, not to mention this was one night where I actually question their effort, the lack of hustle on loose ball rebounds was the difference in the game, nets backups wanted it more.


Actually a very good point. Their analysis always BS so even when they try to “even it out” by paying us a compliment it’s based on knee jerk stupidity. It’s never about what’s actually going on, it’s hype or expectations of their dumbass narratives.

In short it’s analysis fraud.
Semi-retired Knicks fan. Image
Zenzibar
Analyst
Posts: 3,613
And1: 3,129
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#451 » by Zenzibar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:03 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Did you turn the game off after 4 minutes? Harden didn't play. We aren't getting a good pick because we banked fake covid wins. Welcome to the 2016-19 Orlando Magic.



What I meant was the 1st game, just to correct my post.

Winning trumps losing everyday then dropping 2 positions in the lottery.


We lose every day that our young players are benched for Payton, Bullock and Gibson. We lose every day Randle plays 39 minutes to barely beat the Wizards or that he plays 38 minutes in a 20 point blow up.


If Obi and IQ were to play 30 minutes, we'll be in the position you would want the Knicks to be in. That is in the Lottery slipping 2-3 spots back in the draft.
yuk!
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 80,670
And1: 59,482
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#452 » by mpharris36 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:12 pm

Read on Twitter


here's the play where elf thinks he's gary payton and waves off Thibs double team and RJ goes back to his man.

how does this continue?
BAF Spurs:

ROSTER

James Wiseman/Chris Boucher/Aleksej Pokuševski
Michael Porter Jr/Robert Williams III/Nic Batum
Bojan Bogdanovich /Isaac Okoro/Matt Thomas
RJ Barrett/Devin Vassell/Josh Green
Tyrese Haliburton/Terence Davis/PJ Dozier
seren
RealGM
Posts: 23,031
And1: 2,981
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#453 » by seren » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:13 pm

Knicks is one player away from being two players away.
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 80,670
And1: 59,482
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#454 » by mpharris36 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:14 pm

BAF Spurs:

ROSTER

James Wiseman/Chris Boucher/Aleksej Pokuševski
Michael Porter Jr/Robert Williams III/Nic Batum
Bojan Bogdanovich /Isaac Okoro/Matt Thomas
RJ Barrett/Devin Vassell/Josh Green
Tyrese Haliburton/Terence Davis/PJ Dozier
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,051
And1: 11,604
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#455 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:16 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Read on Twitter


here's the play where elf thinks he's gary payton and waves off Thibs double team and RJ goes back to his man.

how does this continue?

That guy is the epitome of a loser.

I don't view him as a professional basketball player.

I don't think he would be a positive rotation player on a Euroleague team. You'd have to put him in the Belgian league or the CBA for him to have a positive impact, if he actually bothers.
Image
seren
RealGM
Posts: 23,031
And1: 2,981
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#456 » by seren » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:20 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Read on Twitter


here's the play where elf thinks he's gary payton and waves off Thibs double team and RJ goes back to his man.

how does this continue?

That guy is the epitome of a loser.

I don't view him as a professional basketball player.

I don't think he would be a positive rotation player on a Euroleague team. You'd have to put him in the Belgian league or the CBA for him to have a positive impact, if he actually bothers.


Frank would not let this happen.
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,051
And1: 11,604
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#457 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:22 pm

mpharris36 wrote:

Interesting point of view regarding Payton's starting role as it pertains to future negotiations with Randle, since they share the same agent.

If that theory is true, then this whole front office is incompetent.

Randle's an All-Star, but he hasn't played a single playoff game in his career. He ranks #22 all-time in most games played without a playoff appearance. And the Knicks are a below .500 team right now.

You don't adapt and compromise the integrity of the team from a basketball perspective for a fairly unproven player like Julius. He hasn't earned anything as far as I'm concerned. *Edit: Is he a keeper? Probably. But a good argument can be made (not necessarily by me) that committing to him and building around him doesn't put this franchise on a path to contention.

But it would make sense that the Knicks are starting Payton for political reasons.

Of course, Mintz will try to present Randle and Payton as a package deal. Which would be the ultimate curse on this franchise.
Image
User avatar
mpharris36
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 80,670
And1: 59,482
Joined: Nov 03, 2010
     

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#458 » by mpharris36 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:25 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Interesting point of view regarding Payton's starting role as it pertains to future negotiations with Randle, since they share the same agent.

If that theory is true, then this whole front office is incompetent.

Randle's an All-Star, but he hasn't played a single playoff game in his career. He ranks #22 all-time in most games played without a playoff appearance. And the Knicks are a below .500 team right now.

You don't adapt and compromise the integrity of the team from a basketball perspective for a fairly unproven player like Julius. He hasn't earned anything as far as I'm concerned.

But it would make sense that the Knicks are starting Payton for political reasons.

Of course, Mintz will try to present Randle and Payton as a package deal. Which would be the ultimate curse on this franchise.


Leon Rose damn near ran CAA...if needs elf to strengthen a Randle off then may god help us all. Leon should have enough pull in CAA to tell Mintz to f*ck off.
BAF Spurs:

ROSTER

James Wiseman/Chris Boucher/Aleksej Pokuševski
Michael Porter Jr/Robert Williams III/Nic Batum
Bojan Bogdanovich /Isaac Okoro/Matt Thomas
RJ Barrett/Devin Vassell/Josh Green
Tyrese Haliburton/Terence Davis/PJ Dozier
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 62,170
And1: 34,396
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Frankie N Baby
   

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#459 » by GONYK » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:27 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Interesting point of view regarding Payton's starting role as it pertains to future negotiations with Randle, since they share the same agent.

If that theory is true, then this whole front office is incompetent.

Randle's an All-Star, but he hasn't played a single playoff game in his career. He ranks #22 all-time in most games played without a playoff appearance. And the Knicks are a below .500 team right now.

You don't adapt and compromise the integrity of the team from a basketball perspective for a fairly unproven player like Julius. He hasn't earned anything as far as I'm concerned.

But it would make sense that the Knicks are starting Payton for political reasons.

Of course, Mintz will try to present Randle and Payton as a package deal. Which would be the ultimate curse on this franchise.


Leon Rose damn near ran CAA...if needs elf to strengthen a Randle offer then may god help us all. Leon should have enough pull in CAA to tell Mintz to f*ck off.


I think, without question, Elf is being played for political reasons.

I don't think Julius Randle gives a f*ck about Elf, in terms of getting paid though.
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,051
And1: 11,604
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: PG: Lack fundamentals 

Post#460 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:28 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Interesting point of view regarding Payton's starting role as it pertains to future negotiations with Randle, since they share the same agent.

If that theory is true, then this whole front office is incompetent.

Randle's an All-Star, but he hasn't played a single playoff game in his career. He ranks #22 all-time in most games played without a playoff appearance. And the Knicks are a below .500 team right now.

You don't adapt and compromise the integrity of the team from a basketball perspective for a fairly unproven player like Julius. He hasn't earned anything as far as I'm concerned.

But it would make sense that the Knicks are starting Payton for political reasons.

Of course, Mintz will try to present Randle and Payton as a package deal. Which would be the ultimate curse on this franchise.


Leon Rose damn near ran CAA...if needs elf to strengthen a Randle off then may god help us all. Leon should have enough pull in CAA to tell Mintz to f*ck off.

I agree.

I guess we'll see who does a favor to whom, if that happens at all.

I just don't like how all of this smells, personally.
Image

Return to New York Knicks