Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back?

[KnicksGod]

I get what you're saying, it's a consensus top 5. Okay.

That's not quite as rare as you're saying, but it's a fair point. I would say most mock drafts converge though.

[KnicksGod]

Also are you saying you don't think Donovan Mitchell is dominant? He is pretty dominant and special it appears.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

This is simply absurd.

I'm tired of hearing about how good of a coach Thibs is.

I don't buy it.

i think he's a pretty good coach. but he's always attached to some vet on his teams. it was kirk hinrich on those bulls teams, D Rose/Jeff teague on Minnesota, etc. gotta take the bad along with the good i guess. knicks front office just needs to give him a better roster so they can prevent this from happening. if we can replace payton with lonzo, he'll have no choice but to start lonzo.

[Chanel Bomber]

You know why it's completely clear cut? Look at every single mock draft out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the same 5 players are the top 5 picks. You know why that is? I'll let you figure that out.

Mitchell is too old and too small for my liking. I like the kid, but I doubt he's going to be special. More like a decent offensive player (he didn't have too many high point totals for the year), who plays some really bad azz on the ball D. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, I just highly doubt he'll ever be a superstar. I'm always drafting a player who has superstar potential over a starter-level player in the draft. 100/100 times.

Also, a lot of people like Mitchell on this board, but I don't think any of them would take Mitchell over any player in the top 5.

Yet the consensus top 5 picks never turn out to be the 5 best players from any draft class. You can argue the consensus top 5 panned out in 1991 and 1994. 1995, 2003 and 2005 came very close. Those drafts aside, the consensus top 5 is consistently proven wrong.

You might be putting too much stock into these mock drafts. Declaring some players have superstar potential and some others don't is entirely subjective and arbitrary, even from the best draft experts.

I remember I was still just a lurker back in 2015 but I remember some posters being up in arms when Jalen Rose suggested the Knicks should draft Devin Booker at #4. For a lot of people, the idea was ludicrous, because of his perceived lack of upside. Of course, Booker was the 13th pick, and is now considered the best player from his class and has a 70-point game on his resume. Jalen has a good eye for talent by the way.

I'm only using the mocks as points to back up my evaluation of players. I watched them all extensively. I don't need anyone giving me their opinion.

Look, I know every draft is a crapshoot. I'm not stupid. I'm not saying they will all be stars. But I'll take any one of them over anyone else in the draft. All 5 would easily be the number 1 pick last year. Do you dispute that?

I don't know, but what I do know is that - knowing what we know about them now - I wouldn't trade Haliburton or Lamelo for a top 5 pick in this year's draft.

And as prospects, in a theoretical double draft, I think the only player I'd have selected over Haliburton is Suggs and maybe Cade (gun to head I probably - and perhaps foolishly - take Hali). I can't talk about the G-Leaguers because I haven't watched them play a single minute.

My point I guess is that I'm more interested in your opinion than whatever the mocks say. That's just my perspective, but referring to mocks as some sort of evidence or reference does nothing for me.

[god shammgod]

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This is simply absurd.

I'm tired of hearing about how good of a coach Thibs is.

I don't buy it.

oh well. maybe next year.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Overall Thibs is a good coach, but his rotations and minute distribution are brutal. He's just so stubborn with sticking with his vets and keeping the younger players on a short leash. Even RJ was getting benched in 4th quarters at times.

Payton has one of the worst 1st halfs by a Knick in recent memory and Thibs keeps going back to him. Just hard to understand.

Every metric, eye test and just general common sense says the Quickley/RJ/Randle combo works very well but he refuses to play them together....works even better with Mitch, but without Mitch there's no reason not to play them together with Noel or Taj

[sol537]

We're going to infuse this team with MORE talent this off-season. At least 2-3 upgrades plus you gotta hope some of our young guys will take another step forward like RJ did this season. We're headed in the right direction. The only question will be whether we'll peak at being a top 4-5 seed consistently or whether we'll ever truly contend in the Leon Rose era.

[prophet_of_rage]

All those points might have some validity, but not in this specific draft. Could some of them be busts? Of course. I will never dispute that point. But it you want the franchise changing talent, it's going to be in top 5 this year. Could there be a few surprises? Sure. Anyway, no point in going further. I'm going to stick to my guns and so are you.

D. Mitchell is franchise changing. Mitch still has a shot to be without O. Luka was 3rd but definitely nobody thought he was this good. It's not clearcut is all.

You know why it's completely clear cut? Look at every single mock draft out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the same 5 players are the top 5 picks. You know why that is? I'll let you figure that out.

Mitchell is too old and too small for my liking. I like the kid, but I doubt he's going to be special. More like a decent offensive player (he didn't have too many high point totals for the year), who plays some really bad azz on the ball D. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, I just highly doubt he'll ever be a superstar. I'm always drafting a player who has superstar potential over a starter-level player in the draft. 100/100 times.

Also, a lot of people like Mitchell on this board, but I don't think any of them would take Mitchell over any player in the top 5.

Are you talking Donovan Mitchell? Because he is better than a lot of these top 5 guys.

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[KnicksGod]

That’s def not encouraging that he rarely played the best lineup, and I’m a Thibs guy.

[KnicksGod]

D. Mitchell is franchise changing. Mitch still has a shot to be without O. Luka was 3rd but definitely nobody thought he was this good. It's not clearcut is all.

You know why it's completely clear cut? Look at every single mock draft out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the same 5 players are the top 5 picks. You know why that is? I'll let you figure that out.

Mitchell is too old and too small for my liking. I like the kid, but I doubt he's going to be special. More like a decent offensive player (he didn't have too many high point totals for the year), who plays some really bad azz on the ball D. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, I just highly doubt he'll ever be a superstar. I'm always drafting a player who has superstar potential over a starter-level player in the draft. 100/100 times.

Also, a lot of people like Mitchell on this board, but I don't think any of them would take Mitchell over any player in the top 5.

Are you talking Donovan Mitchell? Because he is better than a lot of these top 5 guys.

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I’m totally confused. RJ can hopefully be our DM. DM is the main offensive cog on a top team.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I read that if we make the playoffs as the 10th seed, we can be in the playoffs AND get #8 pick with a chance of moving into the top 4. This is what I want at this point.

I've had this conversation, and it's surprisingly extremely hard to find a definitive answer. However, it appears that what you suggest isn't possible. It appears that the 16 teams that actually make the playoffs (ie after the play-in tourney) are the teams who won't be in the lottery.

So if you are the 10th team after the regular season and win the two play in-games you don't get to be part of the lottery. To be very picky - if you are 10th after the regular season you are not the 10th seed in the playoffs, you are simply a team in the play-in tourney. (And the same applies if you are 7th after the regular season.)

If you have a definitive source contradiction this, please do post a link to it.

B8R you are correct. Islanders, in short: no you can't make the playoffs and be in the lottery, it's one or the other.

Play-in tournament works like this, source: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31198434/how-does-nba-play-tournament-work-dates-projections-rules-explained

Thanks very much, The Lamma. I don't know why I couldn't find that.

[edit].. Ok, it''s dated 6th April which is after when I was looking. But great to have it confirmed.

[NewKnicks]

D. Mitchell is franchise changing. Mitch still has a shot to be without O. Luka was 3rd but definitely nobody thought he was this good. It's not clearcut is all.

You know why it's completely clear cut? Look at every single mock draft out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the same 5 players are the top 5 picks. You know why that is? I'll let you figure that out.

Mitchell is too old and too small for my liking. I like the kid, but I doubt he's going to be special. More like a decent offensive player (he didn't have too many high point totals for the year), who plays some really bad azz on the ball D. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, I just highly doubt he'll ever be a superstar. I'm always drafting a player who has superstar potential over a starter-level player in the draft. 100/100 times.

Also, a lot of people like Mitchell on this board, but I don't think any of them would take Mitchell over any player in the top 5.

Are you talking Donovan Mitchell? Because he is better than a lot of these top 5 guys.

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No, I'm talking about Davion Mitchell from Baylor

[NewKnicks]

You know why it's completely clear cut? Look at every single mock draft out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the same 5 players are the top 5 picks. You know why that is? I'll let you figure that out.

Mitchell is too old and too small for my liking. I like the kid, but I doubt he's going to be special. More like a decent offensive player (he didn't have too many high point totals for the year), who plays some really bad azz on the ball D. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, I just highly doubt he'll ever be a superstar. I'm always drafting a player who has superstar potential over a starter-level player in the draft. 100/100 times.

Also, a lot of people like Mitchell on this board, but I don't think any of them would take Mitchell over any player in the top 5.

Are you talking Donovan Mitchell? Because he is better than a lot of these top 5 guys.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

I’m totally confused. RJ can hopefully be our DM. DM is the main offensive cog on a top team.

Why are you confused? I was talking about the draft, and in the draft is Mitchell. Davion Mitchell.