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Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back?

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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#321 » by mpharris36 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:46 pm

BowlRips wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

Agree but in the case both aren't available I think I would target Brunson more than Ball tbh or a player of that ilk...don't get me wrong Ball will improve the team because he just better then Elf at nearly everything.

I just think I need someone to break down the defense in the half court or we wont solve our current issue...like we are in these games we just can't finish. I don't know if Ball fixes our end of the game issue. He helps for sure during the game just as an improvement over Elf...but when you are talking about investing big big money into a player in RFA to steal him away and an "overpay"...I'm just not sure...we shall see.


Ball isn't gonna break down the defense and ideally I would want my PG to. But I think we can also give RJ more room to be a facilitator and let him handle the ball more. Love the way he has been improving.

I do like the we would be signing Ball during his prime years and I wouldnt sleep on him improving. Offensively he's gonna do most of his damage from outside but I think thats fine and pairs well with RJ, Randle, Mitch.

Ideally if we are building a contender anyway we are going to have to fill in that missing piece with a #1 primary option anyway who is gonna need the ball.

I would take Brunson too. Just depends on his price vs Ball's price especially since I don't think Dallas would trade him to us for cheap. Maybe if we miss out he would be a good free agent target in '22. I just can't do another season with Elf as our starting PG


To extract Brunson from Dallas I think it's going to require Dallas making a bigger blockbuster type of deal.
For example: Brunson to New York for the Mavs 2023 pick..
Mavs do it to open up their ability to trade the 2022 and 2024 picks in anothe rdeal



correct, that is what I think makes sense. Brunson basically tells them he is out next year. So they might as well get something for him...that deal would essentially open up multiple picks for the mavs to trade for another piece.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#322 » by ibraheim718 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:05 pm

So let me get this straight... The majority of you want the team to go out and get the starting PG for a team that has blown the most 4th quarter leads in the nba and put him on a team that can't close because their best player is dumb and turnover prone?
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#323 » by Reign23 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:27 pm

I don't get and don't like the randle bashing, tho. He overachieved BIG TIME over the first few months. he is not an all nba level player, but he is a borderline all star, which is still as much of an improvement as I've seen in the last 20 years.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#324 » by Fundamentals21 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:37 pm

Reign23 wrote:I don't get and don't like the randle bashing, tho. He overachieved BIG TIME over the first few months. he is not an all nba level player, but he is a borderline all star, which is still as much of an improvement as I've seen in the last 20 years.


True... this team's Detroit without Randle.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#325 » by NewKnicks » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:52 pm

Did anyone else see how dejected Julius was after Smart hit that last minute 3? The one where Bullock doubled Tatum for no f*cking reason? I genuinely felt bad for Randle at that moment. You could see he was just feeling like.. damn.. we just can't get over the hump. He also might have been mad at Bullock for doubling Tatum. Like wtf are you doing, Bullock..

I really felt bad for him. You can see how all of this is killing him. He knows his squad just doesn't have the players to close out games.

That was kind of sad to see. If the Knicks don't make significant improvements in the off-season, I could see him saying f*ck it.. if they're not going to make enough moves for us to go to the next level, I'm out of here. He's not getting any younger, and he knows he's in his prime right now. He might want to go to a winning organization for the rest of his prime years.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#326 » by YouthMovement » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:07 pm

absolutely insane that rj is shooting 38% from 3 considering the way he started the season
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#327 » by frogfood » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:21 pm

YouthMovement wrote:absolutely insane that rj is shooting 38% from 3 considering the way he started the season


I think the coaching staff has him strictly taking open corner to elbow 3s. I think early on he was trying to create and shoot which crated his %. I'm not convinced he is a "good" shooter but at least the staff has him doing stuff that makes him productive.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#328 » by louisorr » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:31 pm

K-DOT wrote:
GONYK wrote:I think it is even simpler than that.

We don't close games as well as good teams because good teams have better closers.

Good teams have closers who can create 3s off the dribble to pull themselves back into games late

For as good as Randle has been, he can't do that. RJ can't either, though he's a good enough shooter now to spot up

Elf - lol

Rose, kind of but not really

Quick and Burks can create 3s off the dribble, but they're inconsistent because Quick's a rookie and Burks is a backup.

For about 2 1/2 games Austin Rivers was going to be that guy.
At least some of us were hoodwinked into thinking he was.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#329 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:17 pm

NewKnicks wrote:Did anyone else see how dejected Julius was after Smart hit that last minute 3? The one where Bullock doubled Tatum for no f*cking reason? I genuinely felt bad for Randle at that moment. You could see he was just feeling like.. damn.. we just can't get over the hump. He also might have been mad at Bullock for doubling Tatum. Like wtf are you doing, Bullock..

I really felt bad for him. You can see how all of this is killing him. He knows his squad just doesn't have the players to close out games.

That was kind of sad to see. If the Knicks don't make significant improvements in the off-season, I could see him saying f*ck it.. if they're not going to make enough moves for us to go to the next level, I'm out of here. He's not getting any younger, and he knows he's in his prime right now. He might want to go to a winning organization for the rest of his prime years.


Please you're talking about Randle like he's a 29 yo superstar. He's a 26 yo first-time All Star. RJ will be better and is 6 years, a lot in sports years, younger.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#330 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:18 pm

Capn'O wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
Read on Twitter


This!!! All of thisss!!??

Let’s get that lottery pick Folks!!!!!!!!


This is true and how it would go in the playoffs.

If we're in the lottery, I hope we can move up :pray: We've won too many to naturally fall to a good position.


I don't know if we can trade ourselves into a higher lottery position, but I think it would be a good idea if possible.

Ideally, we fall out the playoffs and hope to get a little lucky. Our odds would suck so if we are picking 8-12 in the draft maybe we could bundle that pick with Dallas' pick (and something else?) to secure a Top 3 pick.

Personally, the only player I would never budge on is RJ. He's going to be a perennial All-Star and a leader of this team.

I'd trade Randle for the right offer, but I know this FO will feel like they have egg on their face if they ship him out so I fully expect him to stay and resign for big bucks.

I'd even trade IQ for a shot at a top PG in this draft
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#331 » by Capn'O » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:21 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
Read on Twitter


This!!! All of thisss!!??

Let’s get that lottery pick Folks!!!!!!!!


This is true and how it would go in the playoffs.

If we're in the lottery, I hope we can move up :pray: We've won too many to naturally fall to a good position.


I don't know if we can trade ourselves into a higher lottery position, but I think it would be a good idea if possible.

Ideally, we fall out the playoffs and hope to get a little lucky. Our odds would suck so if we are picking 8-12 in the draft maybe we could bundle that pick with Dallas' pick (and something else?) to secure a Top 3 pick.

Personally, the only player I would never budge on is RJ. He's going to be a perennial All-Star and a leader of this team.

I'd trade Randle for the right offer, but I know this FO will feel like they have egg on their face if they ship him out so I fully expect him to stay and resign for big bucks.

I'd even trade IQ for a shot at a top PG in this draft


IMO, teams trying to trade up this year will be SOL.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#332 » by HerSports85 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:37 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#333 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:39 pm

It's probably less about moving up as it is drafting well. Again, guys are taken all over the Draft who are much better than the guys before them. People cite the 2003 Draft but that is much more rare than common, that the best players are bunched at the top. Really not much reason to say this year will be different.

And even 2003 had Darko, Kaman, Ford, Sweetney, Hayes in the top 10. Only Darko top 3 but still. Even that one was not that linear really.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#334 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:43 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
This is true and how it would go in the playoffs.

If we're in the lottery, I hope we can move up :pray: We've won too many to naturally fall to a good position.


I don't know if we can trade ourselves into a higher lottery position, but I think it would be a good idea if possible.

Ideally, we fall out the playoffs and hope to get a little lucky. Our odds would suck so if we are picking 8-12 in the draft maybe we could bundle that pick with Dallas' pick (and something else?) to secure a Top 3 pick.

Personally, the only player I would never budge on is RJ. He's going to be a perennial All-Star and a leader of this team.

I'd trade Randle for the right offer, but I know this FO will feel like they have egg on their face if they ship him out so I fully expect him to stay and resign for big bucks.

I'd even trade IQ for a shot at a top PG in this draft


IMO, teams trying to trade up this year will be SOL.


You mean my tinfoil hat isn't working? Damn
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#335 » by NewKnicks » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:03 pm

Signature NYK wrote:
F N 11 wrote:At least the team splitting that 15 million lmaooo


Ahhh thats the "Big 15" Randle and Bullock were talking about

RJ played great. Really finding a rhythm with his catch and shoot game. Crazy to imagine what he could do with even starter quality PG play consistently

I like Randle but his bad game are atrocious. He must still be aching from that hip injury cuz he looks off. Fatigue from all them minutes aint helping either tho smh. Why force it if RJ has the hot hand? He and Rose did find RJ a goo amount but man let the kid cook if hes on man damn.

Randle and the Mavs 1 to move up for Cade or Suggs? who says no? lol


:lol:
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#336 » by KnicksGod » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:05 pm

I think Knox could still be part of this. He works with RJ.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#337 » by Sark » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:43 pm

Knicks would have to trade RJ Barrett to get a top 3 pick. So basically no chance.

I don't think they even have enough assets to get Cade Cunningham, even if they included RJ.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#338 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:50 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:not much is gonna change from the team until we get better guards and get rid of payton for good

Playing a PG who can't shoot, playmake or play defense just puts a ceiling on any team.

Big reason he's #21 all-time in most games played without a playoff appearance.

If the Knicks miss the playoffs and he plays 82 games next year, he'll be #7 on the all-time list, passing Eddy Curry and trailing only Tom Van Arsdale and the great Otto Moore, Nate Williams, Omri Casspi, Sebastian Telfair and Popeye Jones.

That guy is a loser, no other way around it.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#339 » by NewKnicks » Thu Apr 8, 2021 11:24 pm

KnicksGod wrote:It's probably less about moving up as it is drafting well. Again, guys are taken all over the Draft who are much better than the guys before them. People cite the 2003 Draft but that is much more rare than common, that the best players are bunched at the top. Really not much reason to say this year will be different.

And even 2003 had Darko, Kaman, Ford, Sweetney, Hayes in the top 10. Only Darko top 3 but still. Even that one was not that linear really.


Pretty much every single 'expert' out there agrees that this is one the best drafts in awhile. There's talk of every player in the top 5 potentially being a franchise player. If you disagree with that, tell me which player should not be considered one, and why. But will they all pan out? Who knows. But as a comparison, none of these same experts called any player in last years draft a franchise player, besides maybe Lamelo.

So for you to say it's 'less about moving up as it is drafting well' is pretty ridiculous. Obviously (to everyone but you), it's more about moving up than it is drafting well in this incredibly stacked (at the top) draft.
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Re: Knicks - Celtics PG: Do we need Woody back? 

Post#340 » by KnicksGod » Fri Apr 9, 2021 2:31 am

NewKnicks wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:It's probably less about moving up as it is drafting well. Again, guys are taken all over the Draft who are much better than the guys before them. People cite the 2003 Draft but that is much more rare than common, that the best players are bunched at the top. Really not much reason to say this year will be different.

And even 2003 had Darko, Kaman, Ford, Sweetney, Hayes in the top 10. Only Darko top 3 but still. Even that one was not that linear really.


Pretty much every single 'expert' out there agrees that this is one the best drafts in awhile. There's talk of every player in the top 5 potentially being a franchise player. If you disagree with that, tell me which player should not be considered one, and why. But will they all pan out? Who knows. But as a comparison, none of these same experts called any player in last years draft a franchise player, besides maybe Lamelo.

So for you to say it's 'less about moving up as it is drafting well' is pretty ridiculous. Obviously (to everyone but you), it's more about moving up than it is drafting well in this incredibly stacked (at the top) draft.


You do your analysis of each guy and I'll do my analysis of the fact that every Draft is a lottery. Many top picks are busts, the order is never 1-30 in quality. Luka is the best young player in the NBA and was not taken 1.

It's like trying to pick the right stock versus knowing that your portfolio should be balanced and not reliant on any one company's shares. Which do you think is more likely to succeed?

Even in 2003, the only guy picked in the right order was LeBron lol. Bosh IMO was a better player than Melo, Darko sucked, Wade should've been 2.

So yeah you don't have a lot of support for what you're proposing. The Draft itself is still a lottery, plain and simple. Nobody picks the right guys regularly.

And as far as No. 1 picks go, LeBron is actually exceedingly rare. Many of them, about half, aren't dominant players. Some are not good at all.

Anyway OT imagine plugging Luka into RJ and Mitch. Now that's fire.
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