Knicks - Grizz PG

[jvsimonetti0514]

It’s pretty cool to have a 20 year old that’s willed us to a couple come from behind victories this year. There’s no way last years RJ would hit three free throws in a row to help us tie the game. I kinda hope the ESPN keeps slighting him cuz it only helps unlock him even more. The most exciting news is he actually hit a reverse lay up last night after 8 separate chances that failed horribly.

[Juco24]

It’s pretty cool to have a 20 year old that’s willed us to a couple come from behind victories this year. There’s no way last years RJ would hit three free throws in a row to help us tie the game. I kinda hope the ESPN keeps slighting him cuz it only helps unlock him even more. The most exciting news is he actually hit a reverse lay up last night after 8 separate chances that failed horribly.

It's why I never got the bust thread... this guy has SUCCEEDED AT EVERY LEVEL, so to think he wouldn't get better and continue to work on his deficiencies was simply asinine. He uses all the criticism as motivation and I love it!! He doesn't back down... he recognizes what he needs to do and he gets to work.

[KnicksGod]

RJ over Ingram too. And maybe Simmons.

[F N 11]

RJ was clutch in Boston too...glad he took it personally.

Watch all these weak writers start acting like they knew RJ would be good.

Also Payton had lowest ts% in nba at 48.4 min 10 fga per game. Lower than John Wall, Anthony Edwards, Darius Bazley, and Westbrook. League average is 67%. He’s the least efficient scorer in the NBA. Thibs needs to wake up and just play Rose and IQ, Burks at PG, forget EP’s feelings.

[HEZI]

BSPN Best 25 under 25

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31198084/nba-best-25-25-ranking-young-stars-future-potential

[knickstape4ever]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

[cgmw]

Underrated fun fact:

Knicks bench went 17-17 from the FT line

[louisorr]

I pray Thibs will keep stretching out the bench like last night, and even further. We have 4 games in 6 days coming up and the season is starting to feel long for some of these guys. I hate to bring it up but with RJB looking great these days I'm starting to fear the specter of an ACL or Achillies. Please Thibs, use the damn bench. Trust the long game.

I realize I deserve a GTFO but I can't help but worry about this stuff

[cgmw]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

Don't forget the fun fact that ownership lacks the reputation to attract a FA superstar; management lacks the patience or loyalty to develop a superstar; and nobody in the entire organization seems to give one solitary F about getting a top 5 pick in the draft to draft a superstar.

Just enjoy the show.

[knickstape4ever]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

Don't forget the fun fact that ownership lacks the reputation to attract a FA superstar; management lacks the patience or loyalty to develop a superstar; and nobody in the entire organization seems to give one solitary F about getting a top 5 pick in the draft to draft a superstar.

Just enjoy the show.

aren't even any star FA's to go after. where is the improvement coming from next season? best case scenario in FA is probably Lonzo and Powell

hard to enjoy the show knowing how it'll probably end: mediocrity w/ the added bonus that players a few of Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga will end up in the East

watch the Raptors get a top pick, and be right back in the playoffs next season

[Gravy]

I thought for sure that was another loss. Playoffs or not the team has nice core they can hopefully put some good pieces around.

[thebuzzardman]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

The Knicks are mediocre so the margin for error is extremely low WITHIN games. Most of the team has to play at their best level to have a chance to win.

What Thibs has done is have the team put forth a good and well game planned effort on defense every game, so there is a chance to be in it and win it IF most of the team executes at about their average level on offense.

It doesn't take many players - sometimes one, sometimes two, to be off, and there goes a chance at winning.

But:

That's kind of the basis, or one of them, of a team being around a .500 team and a really good/couple of good players away from being good.

They are in a good position, because of cap space, extra picks, have their own picks.

They aren't in a great position because they've blown every draft since KP but RJ, at least in terms of difference makers.
They've salvaged that mess, somewhat, by acquiring good rotational role players later in the draft in Mitch and IQ.
They particularly slowed down their rebuild by drafting Obi and not taking a chance on Poku, or being smart enough to draft Haliburton, or even keeping that low pick for Maledon or even that they played the vets last year enough to screw up draft position.

And it sort of sucks they are screwing up draft position again in a good, deep draft, but I'm not exactly ready to go all in on "Oh, this is what Dolan teams do, wah wah, it never changes!!!"

This Knicks FO handicapped itself with it the Obi pick and not making the best use of the 33rd pick.
This Knicks FO was pre-handicapped by the Frank and Knox picks.
This Knicks FO has a chance to turn the Knicks into a good team, but the degree of difficulty is higher based on nearly 4 years of bad drafting - would be 4 straight if they didn't successfully tank for what turned into RJ.

Whatever. I'm glad they have a good coach who actually cares about defense, his Elf obsession aside.
Sucks that Obi is a bust but it's already happened.
Maybe they'll actually draft well in the teens-ish this upcoming draft, though they didn't exactly knock it out of the park this draft.
Hopefully they won't get impatient and throw a big bag of money at a DeRozan level FA.
Hopefully a player whines and bitches his way on to the Knicks next year.
Hopefully the 2022 FA class stays looking decent.

[Oscirus]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

Dont want to be that guy but Id be shocked if we made the playoffs. We just need to get that winning mentality into the head of the youngsters. Two years of tanking is not a good thing to be instilling in rj.

[thebuzzardman]

I thought for sure that was another loss. Playoffs or not the team has nice core they can hopefully put some good pieces around.

The "core" right now is:

Randle
RJ
Mitch
IQ

With
Knox
Obi
having cost control, not that anybody cares.

Other guys who are semi "core-ish" while not being young, or even locked up long term, are:

Rose/Burks/Bullocks/ and possibly Noel

in that it would not be the end of the world if those 4 guys came back, on 1 year deals, for continuity and proof they've bought into how Thibs wants the team to play, plus some actual decent level of play.

I mean, in no way should the Knicks let any of those players prevent them from getting better players, just that they have been solid contributors and would be nice on the team if two better players pushed them down in the rotation, but they are there for some minutes, injury depth, and playing the right way in practice.

[N Y K]

Well, sure, but man he looked like a G League player in the first half. It’s either sweet or sour with RJ. There’s no consistency from half to half from game to game. And then his defense in the first half was also atrocious.

lol

What did I say that was wrong?

RJ basically wins this game and this is the comment on his performance?

Spoiler:

Perspective...

[Gravy]

I thought for sure that was another loss. Playoffs or not the team has nice core they can hopefully put some good pieces around.

The "core" right now is:

Randle
RJ
Mitch
IQ

With
Knox
Obi
having cost control, not that anybody cares.

Other guys who are semi "core-ish" while not being young, or even locked up long term, are:

Rose/Burks/Bullocks/ and possibly Noel

in that it would not be the end of the world if those 4 guys came back, on 1 year deals, for continuity and proof they've bought into how Thibs wants the team to play, plus some actual decent level of play.

I mean, in no way should the Knicks let any of those players prevent them from getting better players, just that they have been solid contributors and would be nice on the team if two better players pushed them down in the rotation, but they are there for some minutes, injury depth, and playing the right way in practice.

The hard part is finding those 2 better players for pg and sg. Teams dont let their pg go easily so Elf may be the best we can get again.

[Oscirus]

I thought for sure that was another loss. Playoffs or not the team has nice core they can hopefully put some good pieces around.

The "core" right now is:

Randle
RJ
Mitch
IQ

With
Knox
Obi
having cost control, not that anybody cares.

Other guys who are semi "core-ish" while not being young, or even locked up long term, are:

Rose/Burks/Bullocks/ and possibly Noel

in that it would not be the end of the world if those 4 guys came back, on 1 year deals, for continuity and proof they've bought into how Thibs wants the team to play, plus some actual decent level of play.

I mean, in no way should the Knicks let any of those players prevent them from getting better players, just that they have been solid contributors and would be nice on the team if two better players pushed them down in the rotation, but they are there for some minutes, injury depth, and playing the right way in practice.

I honestly wouldnt even put mitch there. Hes just a nice toy to have around for another year.

[HarthorneWingo]

lol

What did I say that was wrong?

RJ basically wins this game and this is the comment on his performance?

Spoiler:

Perspective...

I have high standards

[RHODEY]

here's my issue w/ this team:

the margin for error is extremely low. last night it took Memphis missing a sh*t ton a FT's for us to win and we're a team barely hanging onto the 8 seed. if we do make the playoffs, we get smacked in the 1st round (0-6 vs PHI and BKN and we didn't play them at full strength). if we miss the playoffs, we end up picking 12-14, w/ no shot at the top talents/moving up

+ my worry is that a few of the teams below us: Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Wizards, Cavs, etc. will be able to land prospects like Cade, Mobley, Suggs, etc. and they'll end up passing us

the worst place to be in IMO is a treadmill team: not good enough to be a contender, not bad enough to get a top draft pick

I just want a top pick so bad.....last time we got RJ, the time before KP, the time before that Ewing.....the top 4 is good to us.....and if we had landed a top pick last yr, we would have Lamelo

Next year we canadd:

Mitch
FA's with ourCap space
2 first round picks

And subtract Payton

The rooks and youngsters will be even better.
All this for a playoff team.
We'll be more than OK.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

So I see Julius vs. RJ is going to be the new war.. So dumb. Those 2 work extremely well together. Get a Kyle Lowry esque pg and watch this team take off. Mediocre now because we don't have a true playmaker. On Rose and Co. To get that figured out this summer

There is no war, why is there such a myopic viewpoint of team building on here? They aren't playing great together, our offense is junk because the ball barely moves, we're near the bottom of the league in passes made per game and near the league leaders with shots coming late in the clock. The point is that for RJ to reach his peak he needs to be on the ball more than he is now, he needs to run pick and rolls more often than he does now, he needs to be used more as a playmaker which was a strength coming into the league that we rarely see. The question then turns to why can't he do more of that right now, and the most obvious answer is because the PF on the team has the ball nearly 2x as much as RJ. We don't get hockey assists or ever see the ball swing, and that isn't on Payton. The way Randle plays the game is iso heavy, mainly because you can't run high screens for him with a center when he's on the ball, teams would just switch it, so everyone around him becomes a shooter. If we had a true playmaker Randle would be on the ball less and his numbers would drop, and RJ would be 4th in the pecking order the same way he is now.


You look around the league and teams who have young players do what they can to accommodate their talent, the Pelicans played Zion at PG last night, and Ingram's touches have been in steady decline as more people realize the ball should be in Zion's hands more, even though Ingram is a former all-star. The Hawks traded away Schroder rather than let him play even a single game with Trae, why? Because you don't need someone else in Trae's way thinking they should have the ball as much. The Warriors traded away a young 25ppg scorer in Monta Ellis to make sure Steph had the ball more, why? The Nuggets traded Nurkic so Jokic could turn into what he is, and let Grant walk for nothing so Porter could start. If there's a deal out there for Randle that helps RJ develop and gives us a player we should take it. Just because you have talent doesn't mean it's going to work well together, and I see RJ being reduced to a catch and shoot floor spacer for half the game because Randle isos so much.


I get why Melo wants Randle to get numbers, even when we lose, since that helps his fantasy team But I don't understand how so many people can watch RJ stand around watching for about half our possessions and think that's maximizing his potential, or that's him working well with Randle. RJ is 2nd on our team in scoring, 4th in usage rate, and 4th in touches per game, he's basically our most efficient offensive player but doesn't get the ball nearly as much as he should.