Trade for Pascal Siakam

[spree2kawhi]

I mentioned on the broadcast last night that something is not quite right with Siakam and I don't mean just physically (he's recovering from Covid). There's something not right with him mentally. He had that blowout with Nick Nurse which by most reports was near Spree vs. PJ level bad which apparently started by Nurse refusing to play him cause he was not playing hard. Think about it. Siakam made his name (and his 100+ million) based on the notion that he was a hard player. For Nurse to not just sit him but also to basically not play him speaks to some potential serious attitude concerns. I would not be so easily willing to trade for him.

I think there's nothing to his attitude problems really. Watching Pascal and how he carried himself over the years, how he responds in interviews and where he comes from as a person, I'd suspect the butting heads with coach came out of frustration over a tough season and learning a difficult role on the team. If anything it's an opportunity for us.

Anyone who prefers Lonzo Ball over Siakam is out of his/her mind imo. This is a bright kid, an incredible talent and still a star in the making. He's already putting up incredible numbers and has all the tools in the world. This isn't Dennis Schroeder or some other bonehead. I'd bet on Siakam going nuclear next year and we should really deal for him as our SF of the future between Randle and RJ.

What you are suggesting is alright if Randle wasnt here. Whatever spare cap IMO would be wisely spent on a player that can help team offense as well as scoring by his own. In my eyes, the FO is already sold on Randle, so getting another forward on a bloated contract may prolly not move the needle as much as a good pg type.

Sign a PG like Rose, but don't take Lonzo Ball because he's the best of the bad this year, and trade for Siakam as our SF.

We're almost too passive by now. I wanted to tank and build through the draft. Well, we don't. If so, players like FVV, Brogdon, Hield, Barnes, Jerami Grant, Wood, Beal, Lavine, Siakam, Myles Turner are all targets.

[Chanel Bomber]

RJ and Randle require a floor spacer on the wings.

Siakam is the antithesis of that. The idea makes no sense imo.

Bullock fits in pretty nicely with this duo by the way. Much better player than Siakam for this team.

[spree2kawhi]

The slander is getting out of hand now.

[spree2kawhi]

Watching the Hawks Raptors game, Huerter would be another awesome acquisition...

[Buttah304]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team. For starters Randle is a much more versatile player and he’s proven to be the better shooter. Not to overly defend Randle here but even their offensive arsenal isn’t close to the same. So much of Siakims game is actually the worst part of Randles from last year. Bowling into multiple defenders, reckless passes, spinning into traffic like he’s about to pay a fine. He’s also not clutch at all. Siakim should have a Shaqtin a Fool segment just based on all the blunders that he has late in games (the constant blown layups, the dribbling off his foot and missed assignments). Considering RJ is going to continue to rise to the next level I have no idea as to why this team would want Siakim at his cost.

Here’s a genuine assessment of his game having watched him more times that I would like to admit: He is an undersized Power Forward. In fact he’s been best for Toronto as a small ball Center. He’s not a SF (contrary to popular belief) because his shooting ability is poor with his off balance, spinning garbage that he throws up and he is a terrible 3PT shooter. He is not someone thats going to space the floor for us, in fact he will make it feel more crowded. His dribbling skills are elementary at best and his defense is not good against smaller more mobile wings but better against bigger 4s. To put in plainly, this dude isn’t even close to someone like PG-13 who oddly I feel is what people think we would be getting.

For the first 15-18 games of Toronto’s season he had a very large role in their offense and was essentially treated as the #1 option. He was shooting nearly 7-8 threes a game and trying to be a point forward. That experiment failed miserably and was the leading reason why they were such a dumpster fire train wreck out of the gates.

If I’m going to take a chance on a young player I would prefer it be someone who actually fits our roster construction based on an actual need. Ideally a PG and SG.

Hard pass.

[spree2kawhi]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team. For starters Randle is a much more versatile player and he’s proven to be the better shooter. Not to overly defend Randle here but even their offensive arsenal isn’t close to the same. So much of Siakims game is actually the worst part of Randles from last year. Bowling into multiple defenders, reckless passes, spinning into traffic like he’s about to pay a fine. He’s also not clutch at all. Siakim should have a Shaqtin a Fool segment just based on all the blunders that he has late in games (the constant blown layups, the dribbling off his foot and missed assignments). Considering RJ is going to continue to rise to the next level I have no idea as to why this team would want Siakim at his cost.

Here’s a genuine assessment of his game having watched him more times that I would like to admit: He is an undersized Power Forward. In fact he’s been best for Toronto as a small ball Center. He’s not a SF (contrary to popular belief) because his shooting ability is poor with his off balance, spinning garbage that he throws up and he is a terrible 3PT shooter. He is not someone thats going to space the floor for us, in fact he will make it feel more crowded. His dribbling skills are elementary at best and his defense is not good against smaller more mobile wings but better against bigger 4s. To put in plainly, this dude isn’t even close to someone like PG-13 who oddly I feel is what people think we would be getting.

For the first 15-18 games of Toronto’s season he had a very large role in their offense and was essentially treated as the #1 option. He was shooting nearly 7-8 threes a game and trying to be a point forward. That experiment failed miserably and was the leading reason why they were such a dumpster fire train wreck out of the gates.

If I’m going to take a chance on a young player I would prefer it be someone who actually fits our roster construction based on an actual need. Ideally a PG and SG.

Hard pass.

He scored 30 on 13-19 yesterday on that spinning garbage and is quite the opposite of the player you describe. I switched off when he had 21 at the half. I don't know where you get your hot takes from, but this guy is a matchup nightmare, taking small defenders to the hole and blowing by power forwards. That three ball may improve or may not, but regardless, this dude is a terror, plays at full speed, defends 4 positions well, rebounds, passes and has one of the most versatile defensive games in the league. You don't get PG13, but let's be real: Apparently you couldn't be happy with him either, could you? Or Beal? Or Lavine? No, it's probably Lonzo who everybody craves.

EDIT: Let me add: We're a middling team. We don't have a PG, but we don't have a SF either and there are only bad PGs available. All this is highly theoretical anyway and Siakam is not Kawhi. If you don't ask him to be Kawhi, he's a great player.

[Buttah304]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team. For starters Randle is a much more versatile player and he’s proven to be the better shooter. Not to overly defend Randle here but even their offensive arsenal isn’t close to the same. So much of Siakims game is actually the worst part of Randles from last year. Bowling into multiple defenders, reckless passes, spinning into traffic like he’s about to pay a fine. He’s also not clutch at all. Siakim should have a Shaqtin a Fool segment just based on all the blunders that he has late in games (the constant blown layups, the dribbling off his foot and missed assignments). Considering RJ is going to continue to rise to the next level I have no idea as to why this team would want Siakim at his cost.

Here’s a genuine assessment of his game having watched him more times that I would like to admit: He is an undersized Power Forward. In fact he’s been best for Toronto as a small ball Center. He’s not a SF (contrary to popular belief) because his shooting ability is poor with his off balance, spinning garbage that he throws up and he is a terrible 3PT shooter. He is not someone thats going to space the floor for us, in fact he will make it feel more crowded. His dribbling skills are elementary at best and his defense is not good against smaller more mobile wings but better against bigger 4s. To put in plainly, this dude isn’t even close to someone like PG-13 who oddly I feel is what people think we would be getting.

For the first 15-18 games of Toronto’s season he had a very large role in their offense and was essentially treated as the #1 option. He was shooting nearly 7-8 threes a game and trying to be a point forward. That experiment failed miserably and was the leading reason why they were such a dumpster fire train wreck out of the gates.

If I’m going to take a chance on a young player I would prefer it be someone who actually fits our roster construction based on an actual need. Ideally a PG and SG.

Hard pass.

He scored 30 on 13-19 yesterday on that spinning garbage and is quite the opposite of the player you describe. I switched off when he had 21 at the half. I don't know where you get your hot takes from, but this guy is a matchup nightmare, taking small defenders to the hole and blowing by power forwards. That three ball may improve or may not, but regardless, this dude is a terror, plays at full speed, defends 4 positions well, rebounds, passes and has one of the most versatile defensive games in the league. You don't get PG13, but let's be real: Apparently you couldn't be happy with him either, could you? Or Beal? Or Lavine? No, it's probably Lonzo who everybody craves.

EDIT: Let me add: We're a middling team. We don't have a PG, but we don't have a SF either and there are only bad PGs available. All this is highly theoretical anyway and Siakam is not Kawhi. If you don't ask him to be Kawhi, he's a great player.

You have a team in Toronto that would be more than happy to get out from under his contract. He’s being paid like a real deal #2 option when he isn’t remotely close to that.

Pascal is the epitome of a player where you can’t just look at his numbers and think that it paints an actual picture. If you watch enough of his games you will realize he’s got more holes than actual strengths.

Siakim is just a suped up Thaddeus Young.

Agree to disagree.

[WargamesX]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team. For starters Randle is a much more versatile player and he’s proven to be the better shooter. Not to overly defend Randle here but even their offensive arsenal isn’t close to the same. So much of Siakims game is actually the worst part of Randles from last year. Bowling into multiple defenders, reckless passes, spinning into traffic like he’s about to pay a fine. He’s also not clutch at all. Siakim should have a Shaqtin a Fool segment just based on all the blunders that he has late in games (the constant blown layups, the dribbling off his foot and missed assignments). Considering RJ is going to continue to rise to the next level I have no idea as to why this team would want Siakim at his cost.

Here’s a genuine assessment of his game having watched him more times that I would like to admit: He is an undersized Power Forward. In fact he’s been best for Toronto as a small ball Center. He’s not a SF (contrary to popular belief) because his shooting ability is poor with his off balance, spinning garbage that he throws up and he is a terrible 3PT shooter. He is not someone thats going to space the floor for us, in fact he will make it feel more crowded. His dribbling skills are elementary at best and his defense is not good against smaller more mobile wings but better against bigger 4s. To put in plainly, this dude isn’t even close to someone like PG-13 who oddly I feel is what people think we would be getting.

For the first 15-18 games of Toronto’s season he had a very large role in their offense and was essentially treated as the #1 option. He was shooting nearly 7-8 threes a game and trying to be a point forward. That experiment failed miserably and was the leading reason why they were such a dumpster fire train wreck out of the gates.

If I’m going to take a chance on a young player I would prefer it be someone who actually fits our roster construction based on an actual need. Ideally a PG and SG.

Hard pass.

He scored 30 on 13-19 yesterday on that spinning garbage and is quite the opposite of the player you describe. I switched off when he had 21 at the half. I don't know where you get your hot takes from, but this guy is a matchup nightmare, taking small defenders to the hole and blowing by power forwards. That three ball may improve or may not, but regardless, this dude is a terror, plays at full speed, defends 4 positions well, rebounds, passes and has one of the most versatile defensive games in the league. You don't get PG13, but let's be real: Apparently you couldn't be happy with him either, could you? Or Beal? Or Lavine? No, it's probably Lonzo who everybody craves.

EDIT: Let me add: We're a middling team. We don't have a PG, but we don't have a SF either and there are only bad PGs available. All this is highly theoretical anyway and Siakam is not Kawhi. If you don't ask him to be Kawhi, he's a great player.

You have a team in Toronto that would be more than happy to get out from under his contract. He’s being paid like a real deal #2 option when he isn’t remotely close to that.

Pascal is the epitome of a player where you can’t just look at his numbers and think that it paints an actual picture. If you watch enough of his games you will realize he’s got more holes than actual strengths.

Siakim is just a suped up Thaddeus Young.

Agree to disagree.

To be fair 35 Mil is a number one option salary. I am not even sure that Randle is a 30 Mil a year player and he’s been significantly better.

[DrCoach]

I mentioned on the broadcast last night that something is not quite right with Siakam and I don't mean just physically (he's recovering from Covid). There's something not right with him mentally. He had that blowout with Nick Nurse which by most reports was near Spree vs. PJ level bad which apparently started by Nurse refusing to play him cause he was not playing hard. Think about it. Siakam made his name (and his 100+ million) based on the notion that he was a hard player. For Nurse to not just sit him but also to basically not play him speaks to some potential serious attitude concerns. I would not be so easily willing to trade for him.

I think there's nothing to his attitude problems really. Watching Pascal and how he carried himself over the years, how he responds in interviews and where he comes from as a person, I'd suspect the butting heads with coach came out of frustration over a tough season and learning a difficult role on the team. If anything it's an opportunity for us.

Anyone who prefers Lonzo Ball over Siakam is out of his/her mind imo. This is a bright kid, an incredible talent and still a star in the making. He's already putting up incredible numbers and has all the tools in the world. This isn't Dennis Schroeder or some other bonehead. I'd bet on Siakam going nuclear next year and we should really deal for him as our SF of the future between Randle and RJ.

I take Ball of Pascal, you are buggin TF out

[DrCoach]

I mentioned on the broadcast last night that something is not quite right with Siakam and I don't mean just physically (he's recovering from Covid). There's something not right with him mentally. He had that blowout with Nick Nurse which by most reports was near Spree vs. PJ level bad which apparently started by Nurse refusing to play him cause he was not playing hard. Think about it. Siakam made his name (and his 100+ million) based on the notion that he was a hard player. For Nurse to not just sit him but also to basically not play him speaks to some potential serious attitude concerns. I would not be so easily willing to trade for him.

I think there's nothing to his attitude problems really. Watching Pascal and how he carried himself over the years, how he responds in interviews and where he comes from as a person, I'd suspect the butting heads with coach came out of frustration over a tough season and learning a difficult role on the team. If anything it's an opportunity for us.

Anyone who prefers Lonzo Ball over Siakam is out of his/her mind imo. This is a bright kid, an incredible talent and still a star in the making. He's already putting up incredible numbers and has all the tools in the world. This isn't Dennis Schroeder or some other bonehead. I'd bet on Siakam going nuclear next year and we should really deal for him as our SF of the future between Randle and RJ.

I take Ball over Pascal, you are buggin TF out

[ctorres]

I'm wary of players like Siakam

Young guy who already won his ring and got his money

What else does he have left to play for?

[Jadoogar]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team..

Literally was a second option on a championship winner but he would be #3 on a 0.500 team?

[3toheadmelo]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team..

Literally was a second option on a championship winner but he would be #3 on a 0.500 team?

Good luck with that horrible contract

[Buttah304]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team..

Literally was a second option on a championship winner but he would be #3 on a 0.500 team?

2018 was Siakims break out year. He wasn’t that well known around the league at that point, and his warts were not on full display that early in his career.

He also played next to Kawhi who averaged 32-9-4 on 50% FG and 40% 3PT for the ENTIRE playoffs. In addition to that he was surrounded by Lowry FVV Gasol and Ibaka.

The other thing to note is that he wasn’t ALWAYS the #2 option. Against Milwaukee when they won 4-2 he averaged 14.5 - 6 - 2 on 42% FG.

Kawhi was so unbelievably dominant that year that whomever decided to step up and be the #2 option for a specific game or series was enough to win.

Siakim is not a #2 option in the NBA yet he’s being paid like a borderline #1. Maybe it’s just my own personal opinion but he is literally one of the most overhyped players in the league today.

To put it simple, if Siakim is taking up 33% of your cap space you aren’t going anywhere.

[DaGawd]

2/16 tonight against the nets 10 points... this guy sucks

[NoDopeOnSundays]

He's a power forward that drives a lot and isn't a great shooter, he does not fit with this team.


This isn't NBA 2k, you can't just go after players regardless of fit.

[cgmw]

Siakam and Randle are two very different players, but Pascal's All-NBA season should be a sober reminder to take nothing for granted about Randle's future performance.

Thibs is asking A LOT of Randle, and it just seems so unlikely that he'll be able to keep up this level of production once Leon adds more surrounding talent.

People blame Fiz (and rightly so), but don't underestimate the confidence and touches Marcus Morris took away from Randle last year. Just being real, but I'd be honestly shocked if we see All-NBA Jules again after this magic Thibs season of 2021.

PS: Bringing Siakam to NY is so weird and absurd and unlikely that of course it has its own thread. I just chose to ignore the topic and write about something tangentially related.

[Hes_On_Fire]

Siakam, Derozan, ancient Lowry, etc. some of these ideas are awful. It’s like you’re asking to be a treadmill team.

[RHODEY]

Siakim is one of the most overrated players in the league.

He is not a guy you pay $35 million a year for. At absolute best he’s a #3 option on this Knicks team. For starters Randle is a much more versatile player and he’s proven to be the better shooter. Not to overly defend Randle here but even their offensive arsenal isn’t close to the same. So much of Siakims game is actually the worst part of Randles from last year. Bowling into multiple defenders, reckless passes, spinning into traffic like he’s about to pay a fine. He’s also not clutch at all. Siakim should have a Shaqtin a Fool segment just based on all the blunders that he has late in games (the constant blown layups, the dribbling off his foot and missed assignments). Considering RJ is going to continue to rise to the next level I have no idea as to why this team would want Siakim at his cost.

Here’s a genuine assessment of his game having watched him more times that I would like to admit: He is an undersized Power Forward. In fact he’s been best for Toronto as a small ball Center. He’s not a SF (contrary to popular belief) because his shooting ability is poor with his off balance, spinning garbage that he throws up and he is a terrible 3PT shooter. He is not someone thats going to space the floor for us, in fact he will make it feel more crowded. His dribbling skills are elementary at best and his defense is not good against smaller more mobile wings but better against bigger 4s. To put in plainly, this dude isn’t even close to someone like PG-13 who oddly I feel is what people think we would be getting.

For the first 15-18 games of Toronto’s season he had a very large role in their offense and was essentially treated as the #1 option. He was shooting nearly 7-8 threes a game and trying to be a point forward. That experiment failed miserably and was the leading reason why they were such a dumpster fire train wreck out of the gates.

If I’m going to take a chance on a young player I would prefer it be someone who actually fits our roster construction based on an actual need. Ideally a PG and SG.

Hard pass.

He scored 30 on 13-19 yesterday on that spinning garbage and is quite the opposite of the player you describe. I switched off when he had 21 at the half. I don't know where you get your hot takes from, but this guy is a matchup nightmare, taking small defenders to the hole and blowing by power forwards. That three ball may improve or may not, but regardless, this dude is a terror, plays at full speed, defends 4 positions well, rebounds, passes and has one of the most versatile defensive games in the league. You don't get PG13, but let's be real: Apparently you couldn't be happy with him either, could you? Or Beal? Or Lavine? No, it's probably Lonzo who everybody craves.

EDIT: Let me add: We're a middling team. We don't have a PG, but we don't have a SF either and there are only bad PGs available. All this is highly theoretical anyway and Siakam is not Kawhi. If you don't ask him to be Kawhi, he's a great player.

You have a team in Toronto that would be more than happy to get out from under his contract. He’s being paid like a real deal #2 option when he isn’t remotely close to that.

Pascal is the epitome of a player where you can’t just look at his numbers and think that it paints an actual picture. If you watch enough of his games you will realize he’s got more holes than actual strengths.

Siakim is just a suped up Thaddeus Young.

Agree to disagree.

I actallly thing Thaddeus young is more skilled.

[HarthorneWingo]

Dunc’d On podcast just suggested that we sign Lowry (2 years/$60M?) and trade Mitch and picks for Myles Turner. I’d like to see if we can swing a deal for both Turner and Brogdon but Lowry would be okay too.