Knicks - Pelicans PG

[Richard4444]

I don't like beating up on Knox, Frank or Obi because it just feels dirty. It's not their fault they were drafted with the 8th pick in the draft. I had hopes for Frank, but him and Knox lack the fire you need to make it.

We should have a Luka or Lamelo by now. The reality is there enough Knicks fans who would have supported a full-blown tank to mitigate any public pressure on Dolan to win meaningless games. That's the real irony. He had a guaranteed income stream with little risk if he tanked, so the pressure to starphuck is more a fiction of the mind than a reality.

The games were won by the players. Not Dolan. Players don't tank.

And the players were not playing well last year. Randle was awful. Mitch was still a reserve. Bullock was shooting poorly. Harkless is a bum. Portis was lost in the system. Payton was playing surprisingly well. But he could run out of luck anytime because he has no talent at all. We did not have different makers that could win consistently single handed the games to jeopardize the tank. We would have 15 tough games left to properly tank if the pandemic did not have happened.

Players don't tank. Who you play is the topic though, right?

You can purposefully tank as a FO and coach by playing less experienced players who probably will win less games. And in the process they gain some experience regardless of whether they amount to anything as players in the future.

There are 4 problems:

1) We were giving time to our young players: RJ, Mitch, Frank and Knox. Dennis was beyond awful and Dotson is not young.

2) Any player we would get from G-league can win some games. He can improve the team. Especially in the short term (super concentration, motivation, they will play any game as a championship final).

3) If we cut playing time from vets in a contract year, we get kind of burned among agents and we can need them to land stars later. And our vets were playing poorly. No reason to irritate them.

4) If we keep playing the vets, it could help to develop chemistry. It may have worked. The team really improved one year later. That game's sequence could have helped. If we play the worst players to tank, we throw away all the other options to improve.

[Clyde_Style]

Ita putavit gratias ago

interrogate et accipies

May you rub Kuzma's head one day and fortune bestow upon

Walking through forests of palm tree apartments
Scoff at the monkeys who live in their dark tents
Down by the waterhole
Drunk every Friday
Eating their nuts
Saving their raisins for Sunday
Lions and tigers
Who wait in the shadows
They're fast but they're lazy, and sleep in green meadows

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

Just say a word and the boys will be right there
With claws at your back to send a chill through the night air
Is it so frightening to have me at your shoulder?
Thunder and lightning couldn't be bolder
I'll write on your tombstone,I thank you for dinner
This game that we animals play is a winner

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

The rivers are full of crocodile nastiest
And He who made kittens put snakes in the grass
He's a lover of life but a player of pawns
Yes, the King on His sunset lies waiting for dawn
To light up His Jungle as play is resumed
The monkeys seem willing to strike up the tune

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

[Knicksfan1992]

Maybe I'm being a tad bit too naive here about Leon and this front office but I don't see them completely gutting and re tooling the roster with complete stars. I think at least 3 of Randle, IQ, RJ, Mitch or Toppin will all be here come 3-5 years from now.

Trying to go complete star phucking and alienating all the players you have currently was a slime ball Steve Mills move...

[Clyde_Style]

The games were won by the players. Not Dolan. Players don't tank.

And the players were not playing well last year. Randle was awful. Mitch was still a reserve. Bullock was shooting poorly. Harkless is a bum. Portis was lost in the system. Payton was playing surprisingly well. But he could run out of luck anytime because he has no talent at all. We did not have different makers that could win consistently single handed the games to jeopardize the tank. We would have 15 tough games left to properly tank if the pandemic did not have happened.

Players don't tank. Who you play is the topic though, right?

You can purposefully tank as a FO and coach by playing less experienced players who probably will win less games. And in the process they gain some experience regardless of whether they amount to anything as players in the future.

There are 4 problems:

1) We were giving time to our young players: RJ, Mitch, Frank and Knox. Dennis was beyond awful and Dotson is not young.

2) Any player we would get from G-league can win some games. He can improve the team. Especially in the short term (super concentration, motivation, they will play any game as a championship final).

3) If we cut playing time from vets in a contract year, we get kind of burned among agents and we can need them to land stars later. And our vets were playing poorly. No reason to irritate them.

4) If we keep playing the vets, it could help to develop chemistry. It may have worked. The team really improved one year later. That game's sequence could have helped. If we play the worst players to tank, we throw away all the other options to improve.

Oooo, you're so granular you stud

Personally, I'm fine with how this year has played out. I do think getting everyone pulling together as a team does build a team even with spare parts, something we failed to do in prior cycles. So I'm not really complaining. But if a franchise wants to tank they can do it. We just chose not to and therein lies the quibbles.

[Clyde_Style]

Maybe I'm being a tad bit too naive here about Leon and this front office but I don't see them completely gutting and re tooling the roster with complete stars. I think at least 3 of Randle, IQ, RJ, Mitch or Toppin will all be here come 3-5 years from now.

Trying to go complete star phucking and alienating all the players you have currently was a slime ball Steve Mills move...

Yeah, I don't think they will be flipping everyone for different faces. I'm guessing it will be a combination of some new guys and some of our existing guys, not a total influx of phucking stars.

I do think part of being attractive is also about treating your current achievers and over-achievers well. Sending Randle packing now would send the message around the league that our FO will dump you for a hotter chick the first chance they can get even if she smokes Newports and made the All-Star game this year.

[digitaldropoff]

Knicks have a more promising future than the bulls. Why would he want to stay there over joining us?

Because they traded for him as their centerpiece and can pay him the most?

The money difference is not so big (5 years against 4 years and 8% against 5% of increase each year). Besides, a bigger market contender can give him more money on side deals and a better shot in winning a title.

He also can threaten to walk and force a trade to a bigger market/better contender.

Which is beneficial to the Bulls, Lavine can attract more pieces from Western conference teams. You think Dallas, even the Heat, both LAS aren't all over that in a SandT? Zach wants his full max, then a choice between city and top dog. Chicago offers him that, if the Heat can clear some things, same with the Clips, he has every incentive to go to better places better than NY and Chi. The question is, in a S&T...what do the Knicks offer, assuming Zach gets the full max vs teams that would also want him if they have to match or beat NYK offer? Chicago can afford to pay him his full due with Vuc for three years, Lauri resigned and if they hit on a pick this year, that team would be better than what teams would offer for him in the first place. If Zach moves on, it's out West.

[cgmw]

Maybe I'm being a tad bit too naive here about Leon and this front office but I don't see them completely gutting and re tooling the roster with complete stars. I think at least 3 of Randle, IQ, RJ, Mitch or Toppin will all be here come 3-5 years from now.

Trying to go complete star phucking and alienating all the players you have currently was a slime ball Steve Mills move...

Yeah, I don't think they will be flipping everyone for different faces. I'm guessing it will be a combination of some new guys and some of our existing guys, not a total influx of phucking stars.

I do think part of being attractive is also about treating your current achievers and over-achievers well. Sending Randle packing now would send the message around the league that our FO will dump you for a hotter chick the first chance they can get even if she smokes Newports and made the All-Star game this year.

Yeah my money is definitely on continuing the trend of incremental growth while maintaining “flexibility” for future Starphucking. Problem is, time is running out on making a move.

Trade deadline 2022 is pretty much when we lose the ability to go over the cap to max out Randle. I really don’t think it’s Mills. It was also every other executive we’ve had under Dolan who shot his shot. Dolan fires executives and coaches, Executives fire coaches and get rid of players. Everybody is on a short clock with a short leash here, and it would be very new behavior for Leon to patiently wait beyond spring 2022 to make his move.

The fact we’ve been so consistently rumored to want Drummond tells me Leon has something lined up for Mitch. Most obvious scenario:

Drummond
Randle
RJ
Beal
Lonzo

In which case I still think Leon would be tempted later to flip RJ for somebody further along if they could make the numbers work and it made us seem like instant contenders.

For example, if the Knicks come out hot in 2022, but Milwaukee somehow sucks, it’s not out of the realm of reality that Giannis could force his way out for a package around Jules, RJ, and a ton of picks. Not saying that’s possible, but 21 year old RJ is still a major asset giving us flexibility for potential disgruntled Starphucking.

[louisorr]

No reason to chase stars. They will be chasing us.

[Spot31]

I'm not expecting us to win a championship this year. I do think we have a good chance to beat the Hawks, Celtics, Hornets and Pacers.

Yeah and why shouldn't we get loud if we're going to be in the playoffs?

Now that my special juju tank sauce has worn off I'm sworn to support the team and will root for every win from now until we go home for the Summer.

I would frigging love it if we make it to the second round. It would mature the players we have and set us up for free agency with our fat stack.

Yeah I give you a large part of the credit, you did all that math about how statistically we can still tank if we go 5-15 and we immediately went on a 4 game win streak. It's working. Maybe we can still finish 1-15....

Just like people were saying we're gonna go on a 10 game losing streak. Please stop underestimating this team, we're finally legit again. Accept it.

[dakomish23]

Keep working and get over this hump. Take **** if you want it.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

So being held to a different standard for no logical reason. Pretending it’s some drill sergeant nonsense is stupid

Basketball players need structure. It isn't a game of oh you're hot so you play and then you sit if you're cold. Nobody plays like that. It is a paid fraternity and unionized job. The young players get little time unless they are overwhelmingly better than the people behind them. This is also why they now get paid less. Gone are the days when they could sign for any salary.

There is a reason for that. It's a game to you. It's a job to them. You can't jerk established players around like that.

We may hate it but coaches and gms are barraged with calls from agents and reps about playing time.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Please stop the justification. I’ve heard it for years and each time those prisoners of the moment were wrong. “Earn it”. “The coaches have to play the best 5”. Etc etc.

I don’t even have a problem with this particular game. They’re close to the playoffs and they’re making a push, plus the overwhelming majority of our success is not due to the journeymen who have no future. It’s the kids + Randle, the ppl who will be here when all these journeymen are long gone.

Save the rhetoric that fans tell themselves to make sense of our franchise’s multi year pattern of putting kids to the back burner. Guess what? We played the kids a ton in 18-19 and journeymen still came. Why? B/C they will sit on that bench and do nothing gladly for a paycheck. These aren’t even starter level guys. They’re not rocking the boat anywhere b/c they will be out of the NBA real quick if you’re a troublemaker

[El Poochio]

interrogate et accipies

May you rub Kuzma's head one day and fortune bestow upon

Walking through forests of palm tree apartments
Scoff at the monkeys who live in their dark tents
Down by the waterhole
Drunk every Friday
Eating their nuts
Saving their raisins for Sunday
Lions and tigers
Who wait in the shadows
They're fast but they're lazy, and sleep in green meadows

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

Just say a word and the boys will be right there
With claws at your back to send a chill through the night air
Is it so frightening to have me at your shoulder?
Thunder and lightning couldn't be bolder
I'll write on your tombstone,I thank you for dinner
This game that we animals play is a winner

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

The rivers are full of crocodile nastiest
And He who made kittens put snakes in the grass
He's a lover of life but a player of pawns
Yes, the King on His sunset lies waiting for dawn
To light up His Jungle as play is resumed
The monkeys seem willing to strike up the tune

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor
Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor
Ayy, shawthorne wingo the long text, I don't talk, ayy
Shawthorne wingo the long years, he don't walk, ayy
Yeah, last year, I kept it on the tuck, ayy
2010, I came to fck it up, yeah
I want a long suspension, a legendary one (yeah)
I want a quick ban (yeah), and a easy one (yeah)
I want a pretty sig (yeah), and a honest one (yeah)
I want this drink (yeah), and another one, yeah
And I'm troublesome, yeah
I'm a poster, but this $hit and1 bubblegum, yeah
You would probably think my manager is snadler, yeah
But my realgm with twenty hoes in Buzzardman, yeah, ayy
Luka, Obadiah, seren, my Visa
Frank can take as many charges as it needs to, my girl
That shot platinum just like all of my releases, my girl
Frankfrooters come for me, I tear them all to pieces, my girl
I'ma show your sexy ass what !!!! is, my girl
Please don't hit submit that's 'bout to have you geekin'
And I'm not drivin' nothin' that I gotta stick the keys to the game in
Wonder how I got this chanel bomber? I swear I got the
Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor

[HarthorneWingo]

So being held to a different standard for no logical reason. Pretending it’s some drill sergeant nonsense is stupid

Basketball players need structure. It isn't a game of oh you're hot so you play and then you sit if you're cold. Nobody plays like that. It is a paid fraternity and unionized job. The young players get little time unless they are overwhelmingly better than the people behind them. This is also why they now get paid less. Gone are the days when they could sign for any salary.

There is a reason for that. It's a game to you. It's a job to them. You can't jerk established players around like that.

We may hate it but coaches and gms are barraged with calls from agents and reps about playing time.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Please stop the justification. I’ve heard it for years and each time those prisoners of the moment were wrong. “Earn it”. “The coaches have to play the best 5”. Etc etc.

I don’t even have a problem with this particular game. They’re close to the playoffs and they’re making a push, plus the overwhelming majority of our success is not due to the journeymen who have no future. It’s the kids + Randle, the ppl who will be here when all these journeymen are long gone.

Save the rhetoric that fans tell themselves to make sense of our franchise’s multi year pattern of putting kids to the back burner. Guess what? We played the kids a ton in 18-19 and journeymen still came. Why? B/C they will sit on that bench and do nothing gladly for a paycheck. These aren’t even starter level guys. They’re not rocking the boat anywhere b/c they will be out of the NBA real quick if you’re a troublemaker

You don't think Bullock, Burks, Noel, and even Payton contributed anything to where we're at today? I mean, it's not pretty but c'mon we're 28-27 or something like that, right?

[Clyde_Style]

May you rub Kuzma's head one day and fortune bestow upon

Walking through forests of palm tree apartments
Scoff at the monkeys who live in their dark tents
Down by the waterhole
Drunk every Friday
Eating their nuts
Saving their raisins for Sunday
Lions and tigers
Who wait in the shadows
They're fast but they're lazy, and sleep in green meadows

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

Just say a word and the boys will be right there
With claws at your back to send a chill through the night air
Is it so frightening to have me at your shoulder?
Thunder and lightning couldn't be bolder
I'll write on your tombstone,I thank you for dinner
This game that we animals play is a winner

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

The rivers are full of crocodile nastiest
And He who made kittens put snakes in the grass
He's a lover of life but a player of pawns
Yes, the King on His sunset lies waiting for dawn
To light up His Jungle as play is resumed
The monkeys seem willing to strike up the tune

Let's bungle in the jungle
Well, that's all right by me
I'm a tiger when I want love
But I'm a snake if we disagree

Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor
Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor
Ayy, shawthorne wingo the long text, I don't talk, ayy
Shawthorne wingo the long years, he don't walk, ayy
Yeah, last year, I kept it on the tuck, ayy
2010, I came to fck it up, yeah
I want a long suspension, a legendary one (yeah)
I want a quick ban (yeah), and a easy one (yeah)
I want a pretty sig (yeah), and a honest one (yeah)
I want this drink (yeah), and another one, yeah
And I'm troublesome, yeah
I'm a poster, but this $hit and1 bubblegum, yeah
You would probably think my manager is snadler, yeah
But my realgm with twenty hoes in Buzzardman, yeah, ayy
Luka, Obadiah, seren, my Visa
Frank can take as many charges as it needs to, my girl
That shot platinum just like all of my releases, my girl
Frankfrooters come for me, I tear them all to pieces, my girl
I'ma show your sexy ass what !!!! is, my girl
Please don't hit submit that's 'bout to have you geekin'
And I'm not drivin' nothin' that I gotta stick the keys to the game in
Wonder how I got this chanel bomber? I swear I got the
Bitches callin' my phone like I'm lock'd on, no blood no foul
From the plane to the fckin' helicopter, yeah
Mods pullin' up like I'm givin' drugs out, nah, nah
I'm a poster, not a doctor

Spoiler:

Dear Poster,



and

Spoiler:

[El Poochio]

No reason to chase stars. They will be chasing us.

Spoiler:

[prophet_of_rage]

So being held to a different standard for no logical reason. Pretending it’s some drill sergeant nonsense is stupid

Basketball players need structure. It isn't a game of oh you're hot so you play and then you sit if you're cold. Nobody plays like that. It is a paid fraternity and unionized job. The young players get little time unless they are overwhelmingly better than the people behind them. This is also why they now get paid less. Gone are the days when they could sign for any salary.

There is a reason for that. It's a game to you. It's a job to them. You can't jerk established players around like that.

We may hate it but coaches and gms are barraged with calls from agents and reps about playing time.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Please stop the justification. I’ve heard it for years and each time those prisoners of the moment were wrong. “Earn it”. “The coaches have to play the best 5”. Etc etc.

I don’t even have a problem with this particular game. They’re close to the playoffs and they’re making a push, plus the overwhelming majority of our success is not due to the journeymen who have no future. It’s the kids + Randle, the ppl who will be here when all these journeymen are long gone.

Save the rhetoric that fans tell themselves to make sense of our franchise’s multi year pattern of putting kids to the back burner. Guess what? We played the kids a ton in 18-19 and journeymen still came. Why? B/C they will sit on that bench and do nothing gladly for a paycheck. These aren’t even starter level guys. They’re not rocking the boat anywhere b/c they will be out of the NBA real quick if you’re a troublemaker

You don't like what you're seeing. I get it. But what you're seeing is how successful NBA teams work. We don't have end of the line vets just getting a cheque to mentor. We have in prime guys trying to extend their careers. That's why they came. We have some viable keepers in the mix.

The organisation has never wanted to tank. That isn't some revelation. It has always been said "You can't rebuild in New York"

It isn't some revelation that the New York market isn't about youth movements. Dolan had two knee jerk reactions to the sell out streak ending and fans chanting sell the team when the Knicks were losing.

We've demonstrated that this regime is not going the Hinkie method. It means there may not be sexy draft picks, but we're building something. And the good rookies (like RJ) have been given a chance to prosper.

The poorer players sit. And in-between like IQ and Obi are being brought up old school because they don't have clout and so they're earning it.

Everybody has a role. Everybody has a window. And even not looking at the record it's working. Both IQ and Obi are looking better in their stints. The team is functioning.



Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[robillionaire]

Maybe I'm being a tad bit too naive here about Leon and this front office but I don't see them completely gutting and re tooling the roster with complete stars. I think at least 3 of Randle, IQ, RJ, Mitch or Toppin will all be here come 3-5 years from now.

Trying to go complete star phucking and alienating all the players you have currently was a slime ball Steve Mills move...

Yeah, I don't think they will be flipping everyone for different faces. I'm guessing it will be a combination of some new guys and some of our existing guys, not a total influx of phucking stars.

I do think part of being attractive is also about treating your current achievers and over-achievers well. Sending Randle packing now would send the message around the league that our FO will dump you for a hotter chick the first chance they can get even if she smokes Newports and made the All-Star game this year.

Yeah my money is definitely on continuing the trend of incremental growth while maintaining “flexibility” for future Starphucking. Problem is, time is running out on making a move.

Trade deadline 2022 is pretty much when we lose the ability to go over the cap to max out Randle. I really don’t think it’s Mills. It was also every other executive we’ve had under Dolan who shot his shot. Dolan fires executives and coaches, Executives fire coaches and get rid of players. Everybody is on a short clock with a short leash here, and it would be very new behavior for Leon to patiently wait beyond spring 2022 to make his move.

The fact we’ve been so consistently rumored to want Drummond tells me Leon has something lined up for Mitch. Most obvious scenario:

Drummond
Randle
RJ
Beal
Lonzo

In which case I still think Leon would be tempted later to flip RJ for somebody further along if they could make the numbers work and it made us seem like instant contenders.

For example, if the Knicks come out hot in 2022, but Milwaukee somehow sucks, it’s not out of the realm of reality that Giannis could force his way out for a package around Jules, RJ, and a ton of picks. Not saying that’s possible, but 21 year old RJ is still a major asset giving us flexibility for potential disgruntled Starphucking.

i wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they trade randle if the right deal for a superstar comes up

[robillionaire]

Maybe I'm being a tad bit too naive here about Leon and this front office but I don't see them completely gutting and re tooling the roster with complete stars. I think at least 3 of Randle, IQ, RJ, Mitch or Toppin will all be here come 3-5 years from now.

Trying to go complete star phucking and alienating all the players you have currently was a slime ball Steve Mills move...

Yeah, I don't think they will be flipping everyone for different faces. I'm guessing it will be a combination of some new guys and some of our existing guys, not a total influx of phucking stars.

I do think part of being attractive is also about treating your current achievers and over-achievers well. Sending Randle packing now would send the message around the league that our FO will dump you for a hotter chick the first chance they can get even if she smokes Newports and made the All-Star game this year.

Any team would do this. Look at the Nets roster from a couple years ago on their fabled 42-40 season compared to now. They got rid of their all star in Russell, got rid of all "the kids" like Jarrett Allen and LeVert and others, got rid of Kenny Atkinson, got rid of whatever vets were there, it's a completely gut renovated team, and nobody cares.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The NBA isn't merit based. It's clout based. You think Michael was getting benched for Kerr on one of his many 8 for 32 nights? No. You think the guys that play 38 minutes don't tell the coach when they come off?

Your numbers and your money dictate a lot in the NBA. And the rookies have no talks.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Lottery picks have clout. Most get 20mpg+ as rookies. The one's that don't usually end up as a high percentage of busts

They have clout on bad teams. Obi doesn't have enough impact to have clout. IQ was drafted too low to have clout. RJ has clout now.

That's the league. Steph from 3 or Wiseman from 2. Steph decides what shot he takes. Wiseman gets the ball to Steph.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Top 10 picks are investments so they typically play as rookies unless they are extremely raw or really bad. Most teams give them more minutes then they deserve as rookies. They dont have as much clout as an alltime great like Steph, but typically they will be above the journeyman vets in the pecking order.

Even Obi got 24minutes game 1, but gets the short leash now. Thibs is more old school so just doesn't trust rookies and doesnt want to deal with the growing pains on the court. Thibs is doing a great job coaching, but it is what it is and he plays rookies less then a typical coach.

[BKlutch]

I wouldn’t say that rule applies to only young players. We’ve seen IQ finish out games with Payton benched.

I don’t think Thibs is perfect, his substitutions could be better for sure. Every good coach has flaws. But I personally can’t complain much about him cause i don’t think there’s any other coach who could’ve turned the Knicks around like he did

Let's just say the vets get a lot more rope. In some cases, it's warranted. I don't think Knox, Frank or Obi deserve the benefit of the doubt, especially when you take their net rating into consideration. These guys hurt the team.

IQ finishing games with Payton benched is common sense when IQ is hitting shots, I don't think Thibs deserves an opera ovation for it.

I missed yesterday's game so I can't really speak on RJ's benching in the 4th. Maybe he saw it as an opportunity to give him some rest, what do I know.

I think a few other head coaches would have put the Knicks in a similar position, but it's all speculation. He's our first legitimate head coach since Mike Woodson, so I'm thankful for that. He's completely changed the culture, he's developed most of our players defensively in spectacular fashion, he's given players defined roles and he's instilled in them a sense of belief and togetherness that's invaluable. However, the way he's handled the PG position and IQ's minutes has been disastrous imo.

RJ was pretty horrible yesterday. Burks was hot so he stuck with him. I wasn’t mad at Thibs for that.

Ir sucks what he is doing with Payton but I guess we have to deal with it. Could be a lot worse... remember the Fizdale days

Do we have to?

[robillionaire]

Lottery picks have clout. Most get 20mpg+ as rookies. The one's that don't usually end up as a high percentage of busts

They have clout on bad teams. Obi doesn't have enough impact to have clout. IQ was drafted too low to have clout. RJ has clout now.

That's the league. Steph from 3 or Wiseman from 2. Steph decides what shot he takes. Wiseman gets the ball to Steph.

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Top 10 picks are investments so they typically play as rookies unless they are extremely raw or really bad. Most teams give them more minutes then they deserve as rookies. They dont have as much clout as an alltime great like Steph, but typically they will be above the journeyman vets in the pecking order.

Even Obi got 24minutes game 1, but gets the short leash now. Thibs is more old school so just doesn't trust rookies and doesnt want to deal with the growing pains on the court. Thibs is doing a great job coaching, but it is what it is and he plays rookies less then a typical coach.

to that I would say, Toppin has been extremely raw and really bad, and has probably already gotten more minutes than he deserves, which is zero, he shouldn't be above any journeyman vets in the pecking order and arguably shouldn't even be above Knox in the pecking order

But also top 10 picks typically get drafted by teams that are bad and continue to be bad during their rookie season, and these teams usually find themselves back in another tank, and don't care to play rookies more minutes. We aren't in a tank though, we are in the playoffs, so we don't need to shut the team down and play rookies extended minutes. Our situation is unique.