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Knicks - Pelicans PG

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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#501 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:30 pm

cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:My only caveat on calling Knox and Frank "busts" is that the Knicks are largely responsible. Both had (have?) the potential to be excellent NBA pros, and not one person should be surprised if Frank has a breakout season with another team next year.

When he was hired, Tom Thibodeau became the 6th head coach in 4 calendar years (2016-2020). Frank, in particular, has been jerked around so much that it's really not clear who he is or can be. Could it be too late? Sure. Probably. But it's a two-way street, and the franchise deserves a lot of blame.

Knox is such a child, still. Physically there's nothing stopping him, but mentally just seems like he's the kind of guy who will still be a weak-ass mama's boy even into his 40s. Comes off as just kind of an uncool loser who'd go home with an ugly chick despite being a millionaire NBA baller. No confidence. Frustrating, because he could really be dominant as a 3 point shooter and north-south finisher with strong rebounding.


I used to think the Knicks were responsible, but not anymore. (outside of bad drafting, they are responsible for that.) Frank is supposed to be a defensive specialist. That's his entire identity. If he can't carve out a role on the #1 defensive team in the NBA, with a defensive coach with defense first philosophy and with the likes of Elfrid Payton getting minutes, what kind of situation will he ever break out in? I'm just not seeing it. This should be the situation and the type of coach that he is tailor made to play in, and he couldn't find favor with Thibs either. I don't see this breakout happening.

Fun fact: Since Dolan became owner, the only coaches to make it 3 seasons are Don Chaney (2001-2004) and Mike D'Antoni (2008-2012). If Thibs makes it to his 3rd year, it will be a full decade since that's happened. Yes, individual players bare responsibility. But you just can't develop players while switching out coaches like that.


While I agree with this, I also am fine that they fired Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller and especially Mills. I am very happy with the group of coaches we have now. (Thibs and his people, Payne, Bryant). Sure those transitions were hard on the rookies in those years. But I have no reason to think it's the primary reason they aren't good. They've had their chances.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#502 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:39 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
I used to think the Knicks were responsible, but not anymore. (outside of bad drafting, they are responsible for that.) Frank is supposed to be a defensive specialist. That's his entire identity. If he can't carve out a role on the #1 defensive team in the NBA, with a defensive coach with defense first philosophy and with the likes of Elfrid Payton getting minutes, what kind of situation will he ever break out in? I'm just not seeing it. This should be the situation and the type of coach that he is tailor made to play in, and he couldn't find favor with Thibs either. I don't see this breakout happening.

Fun fact: Since Dolan became owner, the only coaches to make it 3 seasons are Don Chaney (2001-2004) and Mike D'Antoni (2008-2012). If Thibs makes it to his 3rd year, it will be a full decade since that's happened. Yes, individual players bare responsibility. But you just can't develop players while switching out coaches like that.


While I agree with this, I also am fine that they fired Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller and especially Mills. I am very happy with the group of coaches we have now. (Thibs and his people, Payne, Bryant). Sure those transitions were hard on the rookies in those years. But I have no reason to think it's the primary reason they aren't good. They've had their chances.

Yeah the narrative - which Rachel Nichols pushed on the Jump - that the Knicks keep firing coaches and that it's somehow an indictment against the organization is nonsensical.

The problem is that they hired these incompetent coaches in the first place.

Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller had no business coaching the Knicks.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#503 » by cgmw » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:40 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
I used to think the Knicks were responsible, but not anymore. (outside of bad drafting, they are responsible for that.) Frank is supposed to be a defensive specialist. That's his entire identity. If he can't carve out a role on the #1 defensive team in the NBA, with a defensive coach with defense first philosophy and with the likes of Elfrid Payton getting minutes, what kind of situation will he ever break out in? I'm just not seeing it. This should be the situation and the type of coach that he is tailor made to play in, and he couldn't find favor with Thibs either. I don't see this breakout happening.

Fun fact: Since Dolan became owner, the only coaches to make it 3 seasons are Don Chaney (2001-2004) and Mike D'Antoni (2008-2012). If Thibs makes it to his 3rd year, it will be a full decade since that's happened. Yes, individual players bare responsibility. But you just can't develop players while switching out coaches like that.


While I agree with this, I also am fine that they fired Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller and especially Mills. I am very happy with the group of coaches we have now. (Thibs and his people, Payne, Bryant). Sure those transitions were hard on the rookies in those years. But I have no reason to think it's the primary reason they aren't good. They've had their chances.

OK? I'm also fine with the taste of McDonalds french fries, but what's that got to do with it?

God bless RJ Barrett for working with Drew Hanlen and having Steve Nash as godfather and the President of Canada Basketball as dad, but most new NBA players rely on their actual coaches to learn and grow. Cycling through coaching staffs is very bad for player development, not to mention firing the GMs who decided to draft the guy to begin with.

So are Frank and Knox "busts"? It appears so, yes. Did it have to be this way? Who knows. But the Knicks didn't help the cause. I still have hope that Frank has a long useful career elsewhere.

Is it still true that the last Knick draftee to make it to his second contract (without leaving and coming back) is Charlie Ward?
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#504 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:54 pm

cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:Fun fact: Since Dolan became owner, the only coaches to make it 3 seasons are Don Chaney (2001-2004) and Mike D'Antoni (2008-2012). If Thibs makes it to his 3rd year, it will be a full decade since that's happened. Yes, individual players bare responsibility. But you just can't develop players while switching out coaches like that.


While I agree with this, I also am fine that they fired Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller and especially Mills. I am very happy with the group of coaches we have now. (Thibs and his people, Payne, Bryant). Sure those transitions were hard on the rookies in those years. But I have no reason to think it's the primary reason they aren't good. They've had their chances.

OK? I'm also fine with the taste of McDonalds french fries, but what's that got to do with it?

God bless RJ Barrett for working with Drew Hanlen and having Steve Nash as godfather and the President of Canada Basketball as dad, but most new NBA players rely on their actual coaches to learn and grow. Cycling through coaching staffs is very bad for player development, not to mention firing the GMs who decided to draft the guy to begin with.

So are Frank and Knox "busts"? It appears so, yes. Did it have to be this way? Who knows. But the Knicks didn't help the cause. I still have hope that Frank has a long useful career elsewhere.

Is it still true that the last Knick draftee to make it to his second contract (without leaving and coming back) is Charlie Ward?


So you're saying we shouldn't have fired the GM or those bad coaches (which GM and fired coach do you think we should have kept?) all on the off chance it would have somehow made these picks successful? This is quite a bit of gymnastics when Occam's razor would suggest that they're just busts, since it's very common for draft picks to be busts. I disagree with that assessment and don't think it would have made much of a difference, and think we're better off now with the coaching staff we ended up with. So agree to disagree I guess.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#505 » by cgmw » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:09 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
While I agree with this, I also am fine that they fired Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek, Fizdale, Miller and especially Mills. I am very happy with the group of coaches we have now. (Thibs and his people, Payne, Bryant). Sure those transitions were hard on the rookies in those years. But I have no reason to think it's the primary reason they aren't good. They've had their chances.

OK? I'm also fine with the taste of McDonalds french fries, but what's that got to do with it?

God bless RJ Barrett for working with Drew Hanlen and having Steve Nash as godfather and the President of Canada Basketball as dad, but most new NBA players rely on their actual coaches to learn and grow. Cycling through coaching staffs is very bad for player development, not to mention firing the GMs who decided to draft the guy to begin with.

So are Frank and Knox "busts"? It appears so, yes. Did it have to be this way? Who knows. But the Knicks didn't help the cause. I still have hope that Frank has a long useful career elsewhere.

Is it still true that the last Knick draftee to make it to his second contract (without leaving and coming back) is Charlie Ward?


So you're saying we shouldn't have fired the GM or those bad coaches (which GM and fired coach do you think we should have kept?) all on the off chance it would have somehow made these picks successful? This is quite a bit of gymnastics when Occam's razor would suggest that they're just busts, since it's very common for draft picks to be busts. I disagree with that assessment and don't think it would have made much of a difference, and think we're better off now with the coaching staff we ended up with. So agree to disagree I guess.

What? No. Where did I say that?

I said that the Knicks bare a ton of responsibility for their inability to develop draft picks. Just as they bare the lionshare of blame for being a laughingstock loser for 20 years with only two top 5 picks to show for it. Just as, yes, they bare responsibility for being inept at attracting or retaining top executive talent. Just as, hey, isn't it f*cking werid that we haven't re-signed a draftee since the first Clinton administration?

Specifically, the argument I reject is the very common, ultra-simplified scapegoat version of "[Frank] [Knox] [Obi] sucks." The story is much larger than that and is extraordinarily consistent over a period of time that is now longer than the lifespan of all these so-called busts.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#506 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:11 pm

cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:OK? I'm also fine with the taste of McDonalds french fries, but what's that got to do with it?

God bless RJ Barrett for working with Drew Hanlen and having Steve Nash as godfather and the President of Canada Basketball as dad, but most new NBA players rely on their actual coaches to learn and grow. Cycling through coaching staffs is very bad for player development, not to mention firing the GMs who decided to draft the guy to begin with.

So are Frank and Knox "busts"? It appears so, yes. Did it have to be this way? Who knows. But the Knicks didn't help the cause. I still have hope that Frank has a long useful career elsewhere.

Is it still true that the last Knick draftee to make it to his second contract (without leaving and coming back) is Charlie Ward?


So you're saying we shouldn't have fired the GM or those bad coaches (which GM and fired coach do you think we should have kept?) all on the off chance it would have somehow made these picks successful? This is quite a bit of gymnastics when Occam's razor would suggest that they're just busts, since it's very common for draft picks to be busts. I disagree with that assessment and don't think it would have made much of a difference, and think we're better off now with the coaching staff we ended up with. So agree to disagree I guess.

What? No. Where did I say that?

I said that the Knicks bare a ton of responsibility for their inability to develop draft picks. Just as they bare the lionshare of blame for being a laughingstock loser for 20 years with only two top 5 picks to show for it. Just as, yes, they bare responsibility for being inept at attracting or retaining top executive talent.

Specifically, the argument I reject is the very common, ultra-simplified scapegoat version of "[Frank] [Knox] [Obi] sucks." The story is much larger than that and is extraordinarily consistent over a period of time that is now longer than the lifespan of these so-called busts.


How is it that you are able to hold the knicks responsible for all these things, but exclude holding them responsible for their bad scouting and drafting. Is it that unreasonable to think a bad organization drafted bad players, like we repeatedly have?
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#507 » by cgmw » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:16 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
So you're saying we shouldn't have fired the GM or those bad coaches (which GM and fired coach do you think we should have kept?) all on the off chance it would have somehow made these picks successful? This is quite a bit of gymnastics when Occam's razor would suggest that they're just busts, since it's very common for draft picks to be busts. I disagree with that assessment and don't think it would have made much of a difference, and think we're better off now with the coaching staff we ended up with. So agree to disagree I guess.

What? No. Where did I say that?

I said that the Knicks bare a ton of responsibility for their inability to develop draft picks. Just as they bare the lionshare of blame for being a laughingstock loser for 20 years with only two top 5 picks to show for it. Just as, yes, they bare responsibility for being inept at attracting or retaining top executive talent.

Specifically, the argument I reject is the very common, ultra-simplified scapegoat version of "[Frank] [Knox] [Obi] sucks." The story is much larger than that and is extraordinarily consistent over a period of time that is now longer than the lifespan of these so-called busts.


How is it that you are able to hold the knicks responsible for all these things, but exclude holding them responsible for their bad scouting and drafting. Is it that unreasonable to think a bad organization drafted bad players, like we repeatedly have?

In what universe did I say the Knicks had great scouting?

Again to recap:

1) Bad at attracting talented Execs
2) Bad at retaining coaches
3) Bat at winning
4) Yet paradoxically also bad at the draft lotto
5) Bad at retaining draft picks
6) All of the above = Bad at player development

Not a recipe for draft success. Also nothing about any of what I'm saying is remotely controversial. Blaming each individual bust for being bad is also accurate, but lacks any context. Yet year in and year out people fall for the okie doke and think Obi or Jordan Hill is the next big thing. Sure looks to me like scouting comes a distant second to PR/social media marketing on the list of priorities at MSG.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#508 » by cgmw » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:26 pm

While I'm spewing nonsense... I try not to get involved in scouting arguments over the internet. It's like trying to discuss quantum mechanics with non-physicists. God bless professional NBA scouts, but that sh*t looks incredibly complicated and just as much of a crapshoot as the Large Hadron Collider trying to pinpoint the next big thing by randomly smashing together subatomic particles. Some clouds of probability are more certain than others, but I'm not equipped to say much about it except that I think it's entirely probable that MSG has not put the proper resources into its physics department, errr I mean scouting department. Personally, if I were a professional scout, the last franchise I'd want to work for would be the Knicks since they clearly just DGAF about the draft. Although it's gotta be fun to be the guy who discovers David Lee, IQ, or Mitch Robinson late.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#509 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:36 pm

cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:What? No. Where did I say that?

I said that the Knicks bare a ton of responsibility for their inability to develop draft picks. Just as they bare the lionshare of blame for being a laughingstock loser for 20 years with only two top 5 picks to show for it. Just as, yes, they bare responsibility for being inept at attracting or retaining top executive talent.

Specifically, the argument I reject is the very common, ultra-simplified scapegoat version of "[Frank] [Knox] [Obi] sucks." The story is much larger than that and is extraordinarily consistent over a period of time that is now longer than the lifespan of these so-called busts.


How is it that you are able to hold the knicks responsible for all these things, but exclude holding them responsible for their bad scouting and drafting. Is it that unreasonable to think a bad organization drafted bad players, like we repeatedly have?

In what universe did I say the Knicks had great scouting?

Again to recap:

1) Bad at attracting talented Execs
2) Bad at retaining coaches
3) Bat at winning
4) Yet paradoxically also bad at the draft lotto
5) Bad at retaining draft picks
6) All of the above = Bad at player development

Not a recipe for draft success. Also nothing about any of what I'm saying is remotely controversial. Blaming each individual bust for being bad is also accurate, but lacks any context. Yet year in and year out people fall for the okie doke and think Obi or Jordan Hill is the next big thing. Sure looks to me like scouting comes a distant second to PR/social media marketing on the list of priorities at MSG.


That's fair. But I would note that KP became an all-star by year 3(of course he demanded a trade because the organization sucks, funny enough he's never been an all-star since he left here, but I digress). RJ is developing and has shown some improvement. Randle, while we didn't draft him, has developed from an unwanted player into an all-star on this team. It might not have been an ideal situation but talented players have been able to improve despite the dysfunction, so we do have evidence of players developing here. It's not impossible. This is why I'm more inclined to blame poor drafting decisions as the primary point of blame for the ones who didn't succeed.

I mean we can say the environment was bad for Jordan Hill all we want, and it's true, but at the end of the day he just wasn't that good, not here and not anywhere else, and drafting him in the first place was the biggest mistake, not our failure to develop him because we didn't give him more minutes. I'd say the same for others.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#510 » by cgmw » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:42 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
How is it that you are able to hold the knicks responsible for all these things, but exclude holding them responsible for their bad scouting and drafting. Is it that unreasonable to think a bad organization drafted bad players, like we repeatedly have?

In what universe did I say the Knicks had great scouting?

Again to recap:

1) Bad at attracting talented Execs
2) Bad at retaining coaches
3) Bat at winning
4) Yet paradoxically also bad at the draft lotto
5) Bad at retaining draft picks
6) All of the above = Bad at player development

Not a recipe for draft success. Also nothing about any of what I'm saying is remotely controversial. Blaming each individual bust for being bad is also accurate, but lacks any context. Yet year in and year out people fall for the okie doke and think Obi or Jordan Hill is the next big thing. Sure looks to me like scouting comes a distant second to PR/social media marketing on the list of priorities at MSG.


That's fair. But I would note that KP became an all-star by year 3(of course he demanded a trade because the organization sucks, funny enough he's never been an all-star since he left here, but I digress). RJ is developing and has shown some improvement. Randle, while we didn't draft him, has developed from an unwanted player into an all-star on this team. It might not have been an ideal situation but talented players have been able to improve despite the dysfunction, so we do have evidence of players developing here. It's not impossible. This is why I'm more inclined to blame poor drafting decisions as the primary point of blame for the ones who didn't succeed.

I mean we can say the environment was bad for Jordan Hill all we want, and it's true, but at the end of the day he just wasn't that good, not here and not anywhere else, and drafting him in the first place was the biggest mistake, not our failure to develop him because we didn't give him more minutes. I'd say the same for others.

Ok, but to keep it positive, the Knicks are an incredibly beneficial environment for veteran journeymen to flourish, especially on a show-me contract. Marcus Morris and Alec Burks have "developed" quite a bit.

We also seem to have found something remarkable in developing a 7 year veteran in Julius Randle. Totally non-traditional route to player development, but who knows? Maybe it leads somewhere. I'm encouraged to see that at least ownership/management/coach all finally seem to be on the same page for literally the first time ever. Or at least since JVG/Checketts/Ern.

Leon needs to trade this summer's picks because they have 0 chance under Thibs. I suspect he will.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#511 » by god shammgod » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:43 pm

it's all leading nowhere. superstars win in this league. we don't got none.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#512 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:51 pm

god shammgod wrote:it's all leading nowhere. superstars win in this league. we don't got none.


well we don't this season. but look at the superstars who are winning in this league and how their teams obtained them. the nets didn't have superstars until kd, kyrie, and harden went there. the lakers didn't until lebron went there and AD forced his way over there. clippers didn't until kawhi and PG etc etc. We need to be in the situation those teams were in before they got their stars to come, and we likely won't have superstars until that scenario happens to us or we land one in a trade which leads to another star coming
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#513 » by robillionaire » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:57 pm

cgmw wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:In what universe did I say the Knicks had great scouting?

Again to recap:

1) Bad at attracting talented Execs
2) Bad at retaining coaches
3) Bat at winning
4) Yet paradoxically also bad at the draft lotto
5) Bad at retaining draft picks
6) All of the above = Bad at player development

Not a recipe for draft success. Also nothing about any of what I'm saying is remotely controversial. Blaming each individual bust for being bad is also accurate, but lacks any context. Yet year in and year out people fall for the okie doke and think Obi or Jordan Hill is the next big thing. Sure looks to me like scouting comes a distant second to PR/social media marketing on the list of priorities at MSG.


That's fair. But I would note that KP became an all-star by year 3(of course he demanded a trade because the organization sucks, funny enough he's never been an all-star since he left here, but I digress). RJ is developing and has shown some improvement. Randle, while we didn't draft him, has developed from an unwanted player into an all-star on this team. It might not have been an ideal situation but talented players have been able to improve despite the dysfunction, so we do have evidence of players developing here. It's not impossible. This is why I'm more inclined to blame poor drafting decisions as the primary point of blame for the ones who didn't succeed.

I mean we can say the environment was bad for Jordan Hill all we want, and it's true, but at the end of the day he just wasn't that good, not here and not anywhere else, and drafting him in the first place was the biggest mistake, not our failure to develop him because we didn't give him more minutes. I'd say the same for others.

Ok, but to keep it positive, the Knicks are an incredibly beneficial environment for veteran journeymen to flourish, especially on a show-me contract. Marcus Morris and Alec Burks have "developed" quite a bit.

We also seem to have found something remarkable in developing a 7 year veteran in Julius Randle. Totally non-traditional route to player development, but who knows? Maybe it leads somewhere. I'm encouraged to see that at least ownership/management/coach all finally seem to be on the same page for literally the first time ever. Or at least since JVG/Checketts/Ern.

Leon needs to trade this summer's picks because they have 0 chance under Thibs. I suspect he will.


I agree with trading the picks or at the very least consolidating the picks into one
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#514 » by Gravy » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:17 pm

god shammgod wrote:it's all leading nowhere. superstars win in this league. we don't got none.

Superstars win and they also dont win, the Pelicans and most teams know about that.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#515 » by NewKnicks » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:49 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
cgmw wrote:Randle is Thibs meal ticket. And does it look like Thibs skips many meals?

Obi has zero chance here. None. Barring major injury to Randle, it’s over with Obi. Not happening here. He will likely ride out his entire rookie contract on the bench just like Frank. Or he’ll get swapped for a role playing veteran like DSJ-Rose.

Thibs is humoring management with the 10 minutes he’s throwing Obi just to justify their drafting. There are dozens of journeymen vets he’d rather have backing up Randle right now, which is why I’m sure Thibs is making any effort at all — so he can retain enough value to trade Obi for somebody he actually wants.


I'm pretty sure Thibs feels like a backup to Randle is one of the team's weaknesses. Our front office will address this in the offseason, and we'll get another vet (28-32 yrs old) to back up Randle. Obi will then be pushed to the end of the bench, and we'll never see him again, ala Frank and Knox.

It's clear as day that this franchise has zero interest trying to win with youth. Like many have said before me in this thread, it's all about winning on that specific day, there is no look to the future to try and build a foundation with youth.

The Knicks have committed to winning with vets averaging 30 years old (some posted this earlier and I didn't feel like doing the math). Plus, these vets are on one year deals, and some will be gone because other teams will sign them to multi year deals. Then we're going to have to hope that the front office can sign other one year vets to fill the holes from the vets that leave. How long are we going to use this formula to try and win?

We don't care about any type of youth movement. The Hawks have been used as a good example of a foundation of youth, with vets added to assist them. I don't understand how anyone wouldn't want to be in the Hawks position rather than ours. They have a real bright future, with really promising kids playing big minutes.

It really sucks in the end. We're winning with vets who might not be here, and have tossed 3 lottery picks in the garbage.


RJ, Mitch, IQ are the best 3 young players so they play. Are you suggesting Knox is better than he's shown or that we don't draft well?

Randle is 26. And I'm not big on Randle but still.

The story you're telling isn't quite true. IQ and RJ, and probably Mitch, are mainstays. That's 25% of the active roster and about 33% of the rotation players. And by next year will be about 50% of the playing time. Another big chunk will go to Randle, if you like him and believe in him (not you, anybody), and so that's like 60% of the PT with guys 27 and younger, with the vast majority of that 60% below 25.


IQ is barely playing at this point, and he won't get off the bench in the playoffs. If you think Thibs is bad now with his rotations, wait until the playoffs start. He will tighten the rotation and both IQ and Obi probably won't see the court.

To be honest, I kind of forgot about Mitch. Hopefully he'll come back strong next year and we'll see progression.

I get your point, but just look at who closed the last game. That should tell you how Thibs feels about our kids. He even benched RJ in the 4th. Thibs will ONLY play players that give him the best chance to win on any given night. The only situation that maybe that's not the case is with Obi. Thibs might be being told to play Obi some minutes, so the pick doesn't look as bad as it really is.

The Knicks are setting themselves up as a middle of the road team, stacking wins off 1 year rental vets. I don't know how anybody could get excited about that if that is our franchises philosophy moving forward.

And yes, the Knicks suck at drafting too. That's a completely different issue, but hopefully they learned a lot with the Obi selection, and will start better moving forward.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#516 » by NewKnicks » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:04 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:Bookmark this post. You guys are WAY prematurely labeling Obi a bust. He's gotten a fraction of the time given to Frank to be labeled a bust and the guy playing in front of him is an All-Star and the teams most productive player. Frank stunk with guys like Jarret Jack, Emmanuel Mudiay, Trey Burks and Dennis Smith Jr. All are now considered backups and Frank should have taken their spots. If you expected Obi to stand out in year 1 with Randle putting up career #'s and Thibs running the helm implementing guys he trusts, you're insane. Obi hasn't stood out, but his leash is shorter given our success and there's not been enough time to gauge him. He may turn out to be a bust but it is unbelievably shortsighted and premature to call him a bust.


Obi is a bust and once the FO signs a vet in the offseason to back up Randle, he'll be riding pine for years to come.
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#517 » by BBALLER4FR » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:06 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:Bookmark this post. You guys are WAY prematurely labeling Obi a bust. He's gotten a fraction of the time given to Frank to be labeled a bust and the guy playing in front of him is an All-Star and the teams most productive player. Frank stunk with guys like Jarret Jack, Emmanuel Mudiay, Trey Burks and Dennis Smith Jr. All are now considered backups and Frank should have taken their spots. If you expected Obi to stand out in year 1 with Randle putting up career #'s and Thibs running the helm implementing guys he trusts, you're insane. Obi hasn't stood out, but his leash is shorter given our success and there's not been enough time to gauge him. He may turn out to be a bust but it is unbelievably shortsighted and premature to call him a bust.


Obi is a bust and once the FO signs a vet in the offseason to back up Randle, he'll be riding pine for years to come.


'Til we meet again. You could be right that we replace him with a vet and completely wrong on him being a bust. But then I'm sure your argument will pivot to "We weren't going to keep him anyway because of Thibs" when that plate of crow is dropped in front of you.

:nonono: Board is hardly ever right and now we got fresh blood adding to the lunacy.

It's Steph's fault not Larry!!
In Phil we trust!
Frank is a PG!
Hernangomez will be good.
Mitch sux!!!
Trade RJ!
:nonono:
Those last 70 seconds, Randle in a nut shell.

Awful 2 for 1 3PT attempt when we are up 2
Doesn’t close out on Sabonis --> open 3
Takes another side step off balance 3

We got sucked into the Randle vortex where all good feelings go to die.

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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#518 » by NewKnicks » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:35 pm

louisorr wrote:No reason to chase stars. They will be chasing us.


Why would they 'chase' us? What makes us more attractive than the past 20 years?
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#519 » by NewKnicks » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:37 pm

Spot31 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yeah and why shouldn't we get loud if we're going to be in the playoffs?

Now that my special juju tank sauce has worn off I'm sworn to support the team and will root for every win from now until we go home for the Summer.

I would frigging love it if we make it to the second round. It would mature the players we have and set us up for free agency with our fat stack.


Yeah I give you a large part of the credit, you did all that math about how statistically we can still tank if we go 5-15 and we immediately went on a 4 game win streak. It's working. Maybe we can still finish 1-15....


Just like people were saying we're gonna go on a 10 game losing streak. Please stop underestimating this team, we're finally legit again. Accept it.


'Legit'? Really? In what world are we legit? We're a .500 team with one year vets leading the charge. And some of them won't be here next year. We're not legit. We're a .500 team in a weak conference. We had a lot of wins to where our opponents were missing their best player(s).
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Re: Knicks - Pelicans PG 

Post#520 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
Spot31 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Yeah I give you a large part of the credit, you did all that math about how statistically we can still tank if we go 5-15 and we immediately went on a 4 game win streak. It's working. Maybe we can still finish 1-15....


Just like people were saying we're gonna go on a 10 game losing streak. Please stop underestimating this team, we're finally legit again. Accept it.


'Legit'? Really? In what world are we legit? We're a .500 team with one year vets leading the charge. And some of them won't be here next year. We're not legit. We're a .500 team in a weak conference. We had a lot of wins to where our opponents were missing their best player(s).


Shaddup and strap on your feed bag. We eatin good and headed to the playoffs now so get in yer saddle or GTFO
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