Knicks Mavs PG

[KnicksGod]

We only win by 5 without Frank’s 3.

[NewKnicks]

The problem with Luka is that he's so ball-dominant that he doesn't let his teammates express themselves. The offense doesn't breathe with him. As a teammate, you can live with it when you're playing with LeBron and he's carrying you to the Finals, but it's harder to stay engaged when you barely touch the ball and your franchise player cannot carry your team out of the swamp of mediocrity. We all know it's not fun to play when you barely touch the ball and you still lose. And the Mavs are just an average team.

Luka's a more reliable shooter than Westbrook so he has a higher upside, but the Slovenian Westbrook moniker (copyright melo) is pretty accurate.

I actually like Luka and hope he succeeds but I don't think he's the next great player people talk about. He'll need to become a better shooter and give up the ball a little bit more to become an all-timer imo. He can do it though, all-time great talent.

I'm going to disagree bigtime. You can obviously see how special he is, and he's only going to get better. Barring injury, he will go down as one of the greats. There a very few players that have played the game that have the entire package that he has.

I know we love to try and beat down players who are not in Knicks uni, but Luka is so special that you just have to take a step back and appreciate his talents.

The dude is 22 YEARS OLD. 22. MJ didn't win his first championship until he was 28, in comparison. There will be banners hanging in the Mavs arena, unless that front office somehow f's it up.

[dakomish23]

That doesn't mean the Pelicans know what they're doing

I would think Zion being the PG should have little impact on Alonso’s impact. Dude gets so many buckets off being set up as is. It should only help NOP.

But if they can’t see it, I’d gladly take him here. Should fit in well next to Randle RJB

It's the Luka thing all over again. Championships are very difficult to win when your # 1 player only plays on one end of the court. You need to surround them with multiple strong defenders and your defensive schemes will still require all five guys to make their coverage and switches. Golden State did it with Steph, because they had Dray and Klay and a solid team defense.

I'm not sold on Zion and I'm definitely not sold on Luka. I think they have a long way to go to prove they are winners.

Jokic has taken steps in the right direction and I'd take him in a heartbeat. There is a separation between him and those other guys.

I think Luka and Zion are still young and have been dubbed greatness before they got there. I think they can get there, but I’m not ready to crown them yet.

But Jokic has clearly taken the next step. He’s entered that phase of knowing just how good he is and that nobody out there is gonna stop him and that only he’s going to stop himself. Sucks about the Murray injury. The Gordon trade was a perfect fit and was looking fwd to seeing them go against the contenders

[NewKnicks]

Read on Twitter

D Rose was a damn good get.

Great get, I agree.

I love his illuminati triangle with the glow tattoo. Methinks he was added to the 'group' a while back.

[NewKnicks]

I gotta give Randle some major props. I don't know how he did it from one to the next. Seriously.. you just never see that in the NBA. Not the transformation he's made. And I had doubts that he might fall off a bit, and get closer to the mean of his career, but I think I'm dead wrong about that now.

[NewKnicks]

btw rj been taking 5 3pt attempts his last 7 games and hitting them at a 51% clip.

we're at a point where rj may end up being a guy that takes 7-10 threes per game like all the other elite guards.

Nah, he's a bust because he's already in his second year and already over 20.

There is literally no one saying he's a bust anymore. You might as well drop that talking point.

[NewKnicks]

btw rj been taking 5 3pt attempts his last 7 games and hitting them at a 51% clip.

we're at a point where rj may end up being a guy that takes 7-10 threes per game like all the other elite guards.

if you get a big time point guard to go along with randle that garners a lot of attention...RJ will get even more open looks and at this point I see a legit 40% shooter in his near future...never thought that would be the case.

He put in the work and he's done it over such a large sample size this year I firmly believe he is not an above avg league shooter which is crazy improvement in one year!

I really hate to keep bringing this up, and I should probably drop this talking point as well, but can you frickin imagine if we had Haliburton? He was/is the perfect player for our roster. Such a damn shame.

I'd like to take a shot on Ayo Dosunmo with the Mavs pick. I think he'll make a similar transition to the NBA to Haliburton. Ayo's big and strong for a young kid, already has that NBA body. He can do it all.. shoot, great vision, rebound well, and also play pretty damn good D. Also, he's progressed year over year. He's a really hard worker, and takes his game very seriously.

I think he has a really nice upside. If he's there at 20 (or whatever the draft slot is for the Mavs pick), I really hope they take a shot on him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Tanking got us RJB. We got IQ b/c we traded Morris. We got Mitch b/c we dealt Melo. We were losers after trying to win year after year. It’s a mix of the smart decisions we made, some that a win now team wouldnt do, that helped us get here.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but a lot of the win now stuff didn’t help us.

i think you are misunderstanding. i'm not suggesting draft luck doesn't help. i'm saying institutionalized losing causes... diminishing returns on your drafting.

rebuilding is a delicate, nuanced thing. you get lucky in the draft. that's part of it. but if you're not careful, the draft doesn't matter if everything about your team is ass.

this team is better than the sum of its parts. you've made many jokes in the past, but the "culchahhhhhhhhh" is real. we know what it's rooted in with a leader like thibs and the staff he put around the group. that's a good thing. i'd say our mettle is accelerating the rebuild live. the resulting winning will cost us lottery. but it will maximize the return on having hit on a player like RJ. dare i say, if we weren't playing well RJ wouldn't be progressing the way he is. see: last season.

So this is where we’ll probably disagree. I’d say we’re playing well b/c RJB progressed. If it’s just randle being a beast, we’re probably 10 wins less. He’s become a legitimate 2nd option for this team as is.

We did a lot of it right when it comes to him: got him by playing the kids & living with the results, let him take his lumps and go through his struggles, didn’t seek to replace him b/c he wasn’t a stud from day one.

I guess the confirmation bias depends on your viewpoint b/c I can see where you’re coming from as well.

The culture has changed this year somewhat. When ppl said this is the same as past years, I’ve said this isn’t the case b/c it’s our core pushing us forward instead of journeymen dudes. Yesterday was just another example of the main engines being our foundation. In the past, ppl used CULCHAHHHHH as an excuse to have kids be put on the back burner as journeymen vets played us into mid lottery position. I have zero problem with building an actual sustainable culture that benefits the team, I want that. Using the term as an excuse for the bad decisions we’ve made is the joke to me.

Truth is, whether you’re a Knicks apologist no matter what, or if you’re an emotional roller coaster who flexes now when 5 games ago you wanted to tank, or you’re a long term person, we all got something this year. But that’s not enough. Same loudmouths want to make it more than that. Not a surprise those loudmouths are the ones who are wrong the majority of the time.

we don't disagree on this. it's both. RJ is playing better because he is great. i am not diminishing him in any way. i think there is a better environment for him to accelerate his progress right now. like, randle is helping his progress instead of hurting it.

my larger point is that a bit of all of it matters. delicate balance. but we tend to argue defending absolutes. you bring up there being something for everyone's perspective. i agree with that, and in more than just confirmation bias.

[Handledatruth]

Read on Twitter

Nice to have pre all-star game Randle back.

[god shammgod]

I would think Zion being the PG should have little impact on Alonso’s impact. Dude gets so many buckets off being set up as is. It should only help NOP.

But if they can’t see it, I’d gladly take him here. Should fit in well next to Randle RJB

It's the Luka thing all over again. Championships are very difficult to win when your # 1 player only plays on one end of the court. You need to surround them with multiple strong defenders and your defensive schemes will still require all five guys to make their coverage and switches. Golden State did it with Steph, because they had Dray and Klay and a solid team defense.

I'm not sold on Zion and I'm definitely not sold on Luka. I think they have a long way to go to prove they are winners.

Jokic has taken steps in the right direction and I'd take him in a heartbeat. There is a separation between him and those other guys.

I think Luka and Zion are still young and have been dubbed greatness before they got there. I think they can get there, but I’m not ready to crown them yet.

But Jokic has clearly taken the next step. He’s entered that phase of knowing just how good he is and that nobody out there is gonna stop him and that only he’s going to stop himself. Sucks about the Murray injury. The Gordon trade was a perfect fit and was looking fwd to seeing them go against the contenders

they're pretty great right now. they're ahead of where a lot of hall of famers were at similar ages. what makes them not great ? how much their team is winning. that's unfair. not too many guys can do much at all on their own even in their prime and they're very young.

[NewKnicks]

Randle the Luka stopper

Read on Twitter

Impressive for a big man.

This is why everyone should be so happy we have Thibs here. We can all b*tch about the rotations, but he's taught our team how to play great individual and off the ball/help defense. Randle wasn't doing this last year. This is all on Thibs (and Randle putting in the work to back up the D strategy/philosophy).

[iLLSonChandla]

Would love to play the Hawks in the first round. Trae Young annoys the hell out of me

[NewKnicks]

Trade Obi to move up in the draft. Randle is here to stay; his improvement from 3PT range has made me a believer

I would love to package both picks and maybe Obi/Mitch/IQ to move up, if we could somehow snag a top 5 pick. I don't think any team will be willing to trade out of the top 5, but I hope the Knicks at least give it a shot. Trade next year's first as well if needed.

If Randle keeps playing like this, and RJ keeps developing, I don't think our first rounders are going to mean anything in the next 3 years.

Mitch/IQ/Obi
Both 1sts this year, and next years first for a top 5 pick. Probably not enough, but we could add another potential star if we could somehow convince a team to give it up. I'm still holding on to this fantasy.

[NewKnicks]

Read on Twitter

To quite Sham, "jesus"

That is really pathetic, and just shows how bad our franchise has been for a long damn time.

[Clyde_Style]

We only win by 5 without Frank’s 3.

[Clyde_Style]

It's the Luka thing all over again. Championships are very difficult to win when your # 1 player only plays on one end of the court. You need to surround them with multiple strong defenders and your defensive schemes will still require all five guys to make their coverage and switches. Golden State did it with Steph, because they had Dray and Klay and a solid team defense.

I'm not sold on Zion and I'm definitely not sold on Luka. I think they have a long way to go to prove they are winners.

Jokic has taken steps in the right direction and I'd take him in a heartbeat. There is a separation between him and those other guys.

I think Luka and Zion are still young and have been dubbed greatness before they got there. I think they can get there, but I’m not ready to crown them yet.

But Jokic has clearly taken the next step. He’s entered that phase of knowing just how good he is and that nobody out there is gonna stop him and that only he’s going to stop himself. Sucks about the Murray injury. The Gordon trade was a perfect fit and was looking fwd to seeing them go against the contenders

they're pretty great right now. they're ahead of where a lot of hall of famers were at similar ages. what makes them not great ? how much their team is winning. that's unfair. not too many guys can do much at all on their own even in their prime and they're very young.

A team is a sum of its parts. I clearly stated you need to build around guys like this appropriately. At present, they have massive shortcomings. Maybe they'll get serious about their conditioning and come into camp in shape. Maybe they'll start to play some defense. Maybe, maybe, maybe and until they do they are not great, they're just prolific scorers who don't know how to win yet. The way they play now, if you don't cover up their flaws they won't be on contenders so either Dallas and NO builds better teams around them or they leave for a better situation. But they are not winning anything anytime soon on those rosters.

And when you talk about greatness these guys are not legends in the making yet. People talking about Luka and Zion as being generational talents just goes to show how the modern NBA is not any bit better than it was 30-40 years ago when it comes to talent. Neither guy is even close yet to most of the players we called great in the previous century.

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

Damn imagine if PG didn’t extend with the Clippers. He’d be perfect here

How clutch is he though?

No point in throwing the bag at a guy with stats who can't deliver with the game on the line

And we have Randle and RJ. Why would you want him? We already have starters at his position

We need a SG if we're going to spend big bucks

Cause he is a elite shooter and defender and can create at all 3 levels. We need a point guard, but we also need a elite shot making wing. Imagine if we added him and Lonzo this summer

Lonzo
RJ
PG
Randle
Mitch

That’s elite defense at every position. We could compete with any team and if RJ and Randle continue to improve we’d win a championship.

PAUL GEORGE IS NOT CLUTCH

[Clyde_Style]

I'll take 2021 Randle over 2021 Luka or Zion. You can gamble on their futures in your fantasy trade scenarios if you want, but I'll take the guy who is leading our team by example and being part of the reason why we are going to be one of the top defensive teams from now on.

If you're going to be a high usage player then you better be efficient and you better play defense. Otherwise, GTFO out of NYC

[god shammgod]

jordan didn't have his team over .500 until his 4th year in the league after spending 3 years in college. zion hasn't even played 82 games yet.

[NewKnicks]

Trade Obi to move up in the draft. Randle is here to stay; his improvement from 3PT range has made me a believer

The Knicks has just moved up the draft by beating the Mavs. Isn't that enough?

Huh? NO.