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OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In

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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#181 » by NYKAL » Mon May 3, 2021 2:45 pm

I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#182 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon May 3, 2021 11:50 pm

NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#183 » by K-DOT » Mon May 3, 2021 11:59 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints.

I think having former military become police is just a terrible idea

Soldiers kind of need a shoot-first attitude, because their job by nature is to be in hostile environments where people are trying to kill them. Police having this mentality is a big part of the problem, because most of the time, they're not in that type of environment.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#184 » by robillionaire » Tue May 4, 2021 12:10 am

K-DOT wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints.

I think having former military become police is just a terrible idea

Soldiers kind of need a shoot-first attitude, because their job by nature is to be in hostile environments where people are trying to kill them. Police having this mentality is a big part of the problem, because most of the time, they're not in that type of environment.


I agree, terrible idea unless the goal is to live in a military junta. Furthermore the military regularly kills civilians so even the premise is flawed
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#185 » by 8516knicks » Tue May 4, 2021 1:49 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)


You could never do it under the name, but having a mental response squad to deal with people with mental issues (including drug induced ones) seems necessary. I spent 15 minutes on an LA Orange Line superbus with a woman today who periodically shouted out insane stuff including "don't touch me" (there was no one within 10 feet of her) while listening to rap LOUD via an amped cell phone. Also inventing a NETGUN to envelop the crazies might help.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#186 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 4, 2021 2:05 am

8516knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)


You could never do it under the name, but having a mental response squad to deal with people with mental issues (including drug induced ones) seems necessary. I spent 15 minutes on an LA Orange Line superbus with a woman today who periodically shouted out insane stuff including "don't touch me" (there was no one within 10 feet of her) while listening to rap LOUD via an amped cell phone. Also inventing a NETGUN to envelop the crazies might help.


It's just the tip of the iceberg. There are a great percentage of "normal" people who are in very stressful situations and end up acting out in ways that they would not normally do. Just think of all of the people who commit suicide; people in stressful marriages who act out in violent ways; people out of work and on drugs, etc.

I had a very close friend who had apparently suffered TBIs from severe bicycling/MVA accidents. He was able to purchase rifles for skeet shooting. What I didn't know as that his TBIs prevented him from working in an office environment. He was a graduate of the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern Univ. (one of the best in the county).

Unbeknownst to me, he wasn't working (he couldn't keep a job due to his condition) and was running out of money. One night, we agreed to meet up for lunch the next day. I called and called. Left messages. No response. The next day, I get a message from his girlfriend that he had shot himself and committed suicide.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#187 » by 8516knicks » Tue May 4, 2021 2:20 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
8516knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)


You could never do it under the name, but having a mental response squad to deal with people with mental issues (including drug induced ones) seems necessary. I spent 15 minutes on an LA Orange Line superbus with a woman today who periodically shouted out insane stuff including "don't touch me" (there was no one within 10 feet of her) while listening to rap LOUD via an amped cell phone. Also inventing a NETGUN to envelop the crazies might help.


It's just the tip of the iceberg. There are a great percentage of "normal" people who are in very stressful situations and end up acting out in ways that they would not normally do. Just think of all of the people who commit suicide; people in stressful marriages who act out in violent ways; people out of work and on drugs, etc.

I had a very close friend who had apparently suffered TBIs from severe bicycling/MVA accidents. He was able to purchase rifles for skeet shooting. What I didn't know as that his TBIs prevented him from working in an office environment. He was a graduate of the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern Univ. (one of the best in the county).

Unbeknownst to me, he wasn't working (he couldn't keep a job due to his condition) and was running out of money. One night, we agreed to meet up for lunch the next day. I called and called. Left messages. No response. The next day, I get a message from his girlfriend that he had shot himself and committed suicide.


That's like the Hemmingway doc Ken Burns just did on PBS. Never knew Hemmingway was in a small plane crash and had to smash his way out by repeated blasts against the cockpit. Probably like multiple football concussions. Then started to have hallucinations. Also noted Stanford prof Robert Sapolsky has a Youtube vid where he labels DEPRESSION a MAJOR problem. And i just read where noted quantum prof (long ago) Paul Eherenfests shot himself and his downs son after suffering depression for a long time.

But we think other people should be like machines. And function flawlessly. But that's not human.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#188 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 4, 2021 2:25 am

8516knicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
8516knicks wrote:
You could never do it under the name, but having a mental response squad to deal with people with mental issues (including drug induced ones) seems necessary. I spent 15 minutes on an LA Orange Line superbus with a woman today who periodically shouted out insane stuff including "don't touch me" (there was no one within 10 feet of her) while listening to rap LOUD via an amped cell phone. Also inventing a NETGUN to envelop the crazies might help.


It's just the tip of the iceberg. There are a great percentage of "normal" people who are in very stressful situations and end up acting out in ways that they would not normally do. Just think of all of the people who commit suicide; people in stressful marriages who act out in violent ways; people out of work and on drugs, etc.

I had a very close friend who had apparently suffered TBIs from severe bicycling/MVA accidents. He was able to purchase rifles for skeet shooting. What I didn't know as that his TBIs prevented him from working in an office environment. He was a graduate of the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern Univ. (one of the best in the county).

Unbeknownst to me, he wasn't working (he couldn't keep a job due to his condition) and was running out of money. One night, we agreed to meet up for lunch the next day. I called and called. Left messages. No response. The next day, I get a message from his girlfriend that he had shot himself and committed suicide.


That's like the Hemmingway doc Ken Burns just did on PBS. Never knew Hemmingway was in a small plane crash and had to smash his way out by repeated blasts against the cockpit. Probably like multiple football concussions. Then started to have hallucinations. Also noted Stanford prof Robert Sapolsky has a Youtube vid where he labels DEPRESSION a MAJOR problem. And i just read where noted quantum prof (long ago) Paul Eherenfests shot himself and his downs son after suffering depression for a long time.

But we think other people should be like machines. And function flawlessly. But that's not human.


Everyone has breaking points, yet very few people go to therapists to discuss the things that trigger them and discover the mechanisms to cope with them. I mean, anybody can buy a gun. It's such a joke that a civilized society like America can't get this right.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#189 » by NYKAL » Tue May 4, 2021 12:20 pm

I had anger management issues as a kid. My school actually identified it (Thank you Mrs. Martin), they got with my parents and set me up with a therapist. I was sooo embarrassed at the time but, before that summer was up, I even admitted to myself that I needed it and it help change what could have been a very dark direction in my life. If you don't have the right support around you when you have these issues, it's so easy to just fall through the cracks just like I believe that young girl in that tragic situation.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#190 » by 8516knicks » Tue May 4, 2021 12:27 pm

And you thought Chauvin was bad --

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/03/us/south-carolina-man-forced-work-restitution-doubled-trnd/index.html

"Smith feared Edwards, who once dipped metal tongs into grease and pressed them into Smith's neck when Smith failed to quickly restock the buffet with fried chicken,..." :banghead: :noway: :crazy:
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#191 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 4, 2021 9:26 pm

8516knicks wrote:And you thought Chauvin was bad --

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/03/us/south-carolina-man-forced-work-restitution-doubled-trnd/index.html

"Smith feared Edwards, who once dipped metal tongs into grease and pressed them into Smith's neck when Smith failed to quickly restock the buffet with fried chicken,..." :banghead: :noway: :crazy:


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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#192 » by nedleeds » Wed May 5, 2021 3:13 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)


I'd add states having the leadership to stand up to the federal government and say, we aren't enforcing the war on drugs anymore with our local police. Local police having snatch and grab quotas for drugs produces terrible outcomes ending in violence. It produces **** like Taylors shooting. Will addicts get 'easier' access to drugs? Maybe but that's a whole other problem that police were never intended to be experts in. Local LE resources spend north of $25 billion in 2013 dollars enforcing the failed war on drugs. A 'war' that disproportionately incarcerates young black men for doing things that in some cases are legal 3 states over.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#193 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed May 5, 2021 3:58 pm

nedleeds wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Getting better qualified applicants is only one of the many things that need to be addressed. Many cops do serve in the military as reserves and I’m sure that many former military personnel enter law enforcement.

It’s all about properly vetting them, training the better and longer (3 months is not nearly enough), supervising them better, and holding them accountable in a transparent way so the public knows what’s going on.

I would also recommend that a civilian-run police disciplinary board - with subpoena power - be put into law.

Then there’s reallocating money from the police budget to other departments which are better equipped to respond to certain situations like mental health incident and domestic violence complaints. Oh, and no more traffic stops by cops.

(Dictated but not proofread)


I'd add states having the leadership to stand up to the federal government and say, we aren't enforcing the war on drugs anymore with our local police. Local police having snatch and grab quotas for drugs produces terrible outcomes ending in violence. It produces **** like Taylors shooting. Will addicts get 'easier' access to drugs? Maybe but that's a whole other problem that police were never intended to be experts in. Local LE resources spend north of $25 billion in 2013 dollars enforcing the failed war on drugs. A 'war' that disproportionately incarcerates young black men for doing things that in some cases are legal 3 states over.


I think that the war on certain drugs will end, like cannabis. Schumer is already discussing the federal legalization of it. Biden can take it the DEA's Schedule I narcotics list, and should. It's already been discussed for awhile.

Colorado has decriminalized shrooms. Oregon is on its way to decriminalizing more hard core drugs while focusing on regulation and treatment as opposed to prison sentences. Progressive DAs have popped all over the country since my friend Larry Krasner was elected DA in Philly. Speaking of which, PBS has a weekly documentary called "Philly DA" and it follows Krasner and other high level Philly officials, public defenders, and judges as they grapple with the changes that Larry is trying to address through progressive law enforcement. I hope you check it out. I watched it for the first time last night. It was great plus I get to see these **** who I used to encounter when I practiced there (now-"Judge" Douche Bag Scott DiClaudio, who once stole a case from me when he was in private practice, and Administrative Judge Jacqueline Allen has turned into a monster ... just my opinion, of course).

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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#194 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat May 8, 2021 12:02 am

Chauvin and the other cops all indicted by a Federal Grand Jury for civil rights crimes.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#195 » by ccvle » Sat May 8, 2021 8:49 pm

NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


Military service as in what. He was in the army reserve and stationed over seas. I don't think he saw any active combat.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#196 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 9, 2021 6:22 am

As we're accumulating more data on all of the people who participated in the riot/insurrection at The Capitol, investigators have been putting together a more detailed profile on them and it's very interesting. At least, not what I thought it would be.

A new study on the January 6 Capitol insurrection finds that of the nearly 400 rioters arrested or charged, 93% are white and 86% are male. Michel Martin speaks to the study’s principal investigator, Professor Robert Pape, to discuss these findings and some surprising revelations about the attackers and their motives.


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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#197 » by cgmw » Sun May 9, 2021 3:15 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:As we're accumulating more data on all of the people who participated in the riot/insurrection at The Capitol, investigators have been putting together a more detailed profile on them and it's very interesting. At least, not what I thought it would be.

A new study on the January 6 Capitol insurrection finds that of the nearly 400 rioters arrested or charged, 93% are white and 86% are male. Michel Martin speaks to the study’s principal investigator, Professor Robert Pape, to discuss these findings and some surprising revelations about the attackers and their motives.



So tl; didn’t watch —

• 4% of Americans (10 million people) are angry bigots.

• The people who made the trip to DC to storm the capitol were white males in their 40s w/good jobs from counties where whites are losing population numbers to blacks and Latinos, including 50% from “blue” states/counties including NYC.

• The one belief they all share is that the rights of white people are losing ground to the rights of black/brown people (“the great replacement”).

My only question or surprise from this whole thing is what does it even mean for one group’s rights to overtake another’s? Like, are these white people scared that cops are going to start indiscriminately beating/killing them? Are they scared of LOSING the right to be fairly tried in a court of law? Are they pissed off because their son/daughter can’t get into the same college as they did 30 years ago?

For me, my frustrations with society (and this board) always come down to how the dumbest people (or large numbers of people) reduce everything down to imaginary binaries. It’s a false dichotomy to think that YOUR rights get “eroded” when another’s rights get protected/enforced.

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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#198 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun May 9, 2021 5:25 pm

They were (1) more affluent voters, and (2) came from counties where Biden won.

I think most people, like me, just assumed they were low income white blue collar workers from rural America who believe that they’ve benn disaffected by the growth of minority population here. That would make some sense to me bc that group has been the target of propaganda from conservative media and they’re not as educated.

That’s what threw me off. That’s pretty deep.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#199 » by Pointgod » Tue May 11, 2021 7:33 pm

NYKAL wrote:I'm starting to be of the mind that you have to have had military service to be a police officer. At least they know the rules of conduct between civilians and soldiers


God no that’s a horrible idea. You don’t want someone with the mentality of an occupying force. Even with the rules of conduct, there are examples of the military members abusing civilians.

There needs to be a national standard for use of force that all departments need to adhere to. No things being different in Los Angeles vs Alabama. That way local, state and Federal lawyers can investigate and sue police and departments based on a uniform standard. And individual departments can make stricter standards but the national one is always the floor.
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Re: OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In 

Post#200 » by Pointgod » Tue May 11, 2021 7:48 pm

https://abcnews.go.com/US/officers-shouldnt-fired-breonna-taylors-home-documents-reportedly/story?id=77586503

Pretty much what anyone with a functioning brain knew.

Sgt. Andrew Meyer of the police department's Professional Standards Unit determined in a preliminary report dated Dec. 4 that the three officers involved in the March 13, 2020, shooting should have held their fire after Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, shot one of them, according to the documents obtained by ABC News.

"They took a total of thirty-two shots, when the provided circumstances made it unsafe to take a single shot. This is how the wrong person was shot and killed," Meyer wrote, according to the report.

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