ImageImageImageImageImage

2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

Moderators: K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK

Who do you guys want the most assuming all of these players are within our range

James Bouknight
15
25%
Ayo Dosunmo
3
5%
Tre Mann
8
13%
Davion Mitchell
8
13%
Josh Giddey
15
25%
Jared Butler
3
5%
Ziaire Williams
3
5%
BJ Boston
1
2%
Moses Moody
2
3%
Sharife Cooper
2
3%
 
Total votes: 60

Nazrmohamed
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,166
And1: 2,487
Joined: May 16, 2013
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#101 » by Nazrmohamed » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:50 pm

cgf wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:My guy at guard is Ayo Dusomnu. In fact I'm pretty surprised he's not getting more love. I get his age but there are other guys like Duarte, Mitchell and Butler getting noticed. Idk tbh.

Box score stats look awesome, decent percentages and he gets into the paint easy, solid defender. Reminds me alot of Kira Lewis last yr but about this time last yr Kira was an early 2nd rounder who then rose. I might not grab him as high as Kira but at picks 21&22 it really starts to become a matter of "who fits what we do or improves upon what we do" as at this point you're probably past the point of franchise transformative talents, right? I mean sometimes you see that Poku type guy who misses the lottery but has long term potential. I'll be honest I wouldve passed on Poku. Maybe I should've taken the chance. Its sortve how I feel about Giddy who I see many of you like. I may be wrong about him too but I'm not looking for diamonds in the rough, I'm looking for plug and play players.

So with that said
-I might not discriminate against older players. I'm not looking for projects, I want nba ready players even if the cieling isn't as high. (Not interested in the Franks and Knox's of the draft)
-must be a plus defender. This is what NY sounds like, nuff said
-Efficiency. I'm tired of teaching players how to shoot.
- Don't look at the draft as an answer to all my problems. There's still trades and FA but with that said we may need to draft players at positions you already think are solid. For instance I like Dayron Sharpe. Why tho when we got Noel and Mitch? Well because maybe one will price themselves out of NY.

Anyway, I've said alot. Not saying Ayo fits everything I've mentioned but to me he's a good start. I just wanted to share more of my overall strategy for the knicks

The reason I'm higher on Butler than Ayo is simply that I'm more confident in his shooting translating...and because of that, I'm more confident in his penetration and his ability to be a positive contributor despite being a middling defender. Ayo shot very well this season, but I'm not as confident that he'll be nailing NBA 3s as I am Butler...and if Ayo ends up a below average 3pt shooter that limits a lot of the other stuff he does well.

Once we get out of the top X of a draft, I like guys that have a clear NBA skill that they'll be able to build out from than these more all-around prospects who might have a few NBA skills, but none of which you can bank on. That's why Butler and Mann interest me more than Ayo.


I've only recently been put on to Mann so Idk too much about him. But in terms of Butler he's a very close second to me. My fear with him or just a concern cuz I think hes gonna be a good player is he has no burst and isn't really all that athletic. I too trust his shot but if he can't get past a defender then that may be all he is....a 3&D guard. But, but.....maybe let's wait till the combine and see how things pan out. In terms of bball iq and how he plays within a defensive team concept, I have no doubts.
cgf
RealGM
Posts: 17,046
And1: 4,206
Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Location: laser shield bitches

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#102 » by cgf » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:40 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
cgf wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:My guy at guard is Ayo Dusomnu. In fact I'm pretty surprised he's not getting more love. I get his age but there are other guys like Duarte, Mitchell and Butler getting noticed. Idk tbh.

Box score stats look awesome, decent percentages and he gets into the paint easy, solid defender. Reminds me alot of Kira Lewis last yr but about this time last yr Kira was an early 2nd rounder who then rose. I might not grab him as high as Kira but at picks 21&22 it really starts to become a matter of "who fits what we do or improves upon what we do" as at this point you're probably past the point of franchise transformative talents, right? I mean sometimes you see that Poku type guy who misses the lottery but has long term potential. I'll be honest I wouldve passed on Poku. Maybe I should've taken the chance. Its sortve how I feel about Giddy who I see many of you like. I may be wrong about him too but I'm not looking for diamonds in the rough, I'm looking for plug and play players.

So with that said
-I might not discriminate against older players. I'm not looking for projects, I want nba ready players even if the cieling isn't as high. (Not interested in the Franks and Knox's of the draft)
-must be a plus defender. This is what NY sounds like, nuff said
-Efficiency. I'm tired of teaching players how to shoot.
- Don't look at the draft as an answer to all my problems. There's still trades and FA but with that said we may need to draft players at positions you already think are solid. For instance I like Dayron Sharpe. Why tho when we got Noel and Mitch? Well because maybe one will price themselves out of NY.

Anyway, I've said alot. Not saying Ayo fits everything I've mentioned but to me he's a good start. I just wanted to share more of my overall strategy for the knicks

The reason I'm higher on Butler than Ayo is simply that I'm more confident in his shooting translating...and because of that, I'm more confident in his penetration and his ability to be a positive contributor despite being a middling defender. Ayo shot very well this season, but I'm not as confident that he'll be nailing NBA 3s as I am Butler...and if Ayo ends up a below average 3pt shooter that limits a lot of the other stuff he does well.

Once we get out of the top X of a draft, I like guys that have a clear NBA skill that they'll be able to build out from than these more all-around prospects who might have a few NBA skills, but none of which you can bank on. That's why Butler and Mann interest me more than Ayo.


I've only recently been put on to Mann so Idk too much about him. But in terms of Butler he's a very close second to me. My fear with him or just a concern cuz I think hes gonna be a good player is he has no burst and isn't really all that athletic. I too trust his shot but if he can't get past a defender then that may be all he is....a 3&D guard. But, but.....maybe let's wait till the combine and see how things pan out. In terms of bball iq and how he plays within a defensive team concept, I have no doubts.

I do have some concerns about whether Butler just looks quick against NCAAers or is actually quick enough to penetrate in the NBA...but that's where my confidence in his shot eases things. A) because it makes me confident that he will be a threat when Julius or RJ have the ball in their hands, and B) because forcing people to guard him tightly on the perimeter and being able to freeze them with the threat of his pull-up, will create space that it won't require otherworldly quickness to exploit. I agree that it's unlikely for him to become a star unless he becomes a 99th percentile shooter off the dribble...but I just see a lot of Quickley in Butler; minus the length to defend both guard spots.

Outside of the top 20, I prefer to either swing for the fences on long-term projects who I don't expect to actually work out...but it's nice to keep the pipeline stocked with, just because 1 in 5 does...or go after guys that have that 1 tool that I am confident will be senior team caliber and that they can build the rest of their game around. I have not seen any studies of this in the NBA, but I just feel like it backfires a lot more often with these jack-of-all-trades prospects, especially when you get outside of the lottery/top-20-in-a-deep-draft.

And Ayo is right on that edge where I'm not fully convinced that his shot has progressed enough for it to be that kind of bankable skill that will allow him to implement the rest of his game at the next level...so I wouldn't be any more surprised if he is still a quality rotation guy 10-15 years from now than I would be if he washed out without ever seeing a second contract. Whereas with Butler, I am confident that he'll carve out a niche for himself, as long as he has a good head on his shoulders and doesn't get ruined by injuries.


I'm not leading the Mann bandwagon as I never just focused on him when I'd watch Florida, the way I would Ziaire when watching Stanford, Cooper with Auburn, Keon & Springer during Vols games, etc. But I really like where his shot is and am confident it'll become a weapon in the NBA...even if it's not as polished as Butler's...while his athletic tools are higher caliber than Butler or Ayo's, and his potential as an off the bounce shot-creator is a lot higher. If he has a good head on his shoulders and has the work ethic to fit with our core, he should probably be a top 20 pick...but I feel that way about a lot of kids in this class lol
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
NewKnicks
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,272
And1: 568
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#103 » by NewKnicks » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:23 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:

Anyone like Juzang if he decides to stay in the draft? That shot looks effortless. 87% free throw shooter to go along with that.

Wouldn’t mind taking him with the early 2nd round pick


One thing about Juzang is he's a winner, and not afraid to take (and hit) big shot after big shot. He could be a surprise in the league if he lands with the right organization who is great at developing players.
NewKnicks
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,272
And1: 568
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#104 » by NewKnicks » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:28 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:My guy at guard is Ayo Dusomnu. In fact I'm pretty surprised he's not getting more love. I get his age but there are other guys like Duarte, Mitchell and Butler getting noticed. Idk tbh.

Box score stats look awesome, decent percentages and he gets into the paint easy, solid defender. Reminds me alot of Kira Lewis last yr but about this time last yr Kira was an early 2nd rounder who then rose. I might not grab him as high as Kira but at picks 21&22 it really starts to become a matter of "who fits what we do or improves upon what we do" as at this point you're probably past the point of franchise transformative talents, right? I mean sometimes you see that Poku type guy who misses the lottery but has long term potential. I'll be honest I wouldve passed on Poku. Maybe I should've taken the chance. Its sortve how I feel about Giddy who I see many of you like. I may be wrong about him too but I'm not looking for diamonds in the rough, I'm looking for plug and play players.

So with that said
-I might not discriminate against older players. I'm not looking for projects, I want nba ready players even if the cieling isn't as high. (Not interested in the Franks and Knox's of the draft)
-must be a plus defender. This is what NY sounds like, nuff said
-Efficiency. I'm tired of teaching players how to shoot.
- Don't look at the draft as an answer to all my problems. There's still trades and FA but with that said we may need to draft players at positions you already think are solid. For instance I like Dayron Sharpe. Why tho when we got Noel and Mitch? Well because maybe one will price themselves out of NY.

Anyway, I've said alot. Not saying Ayo fits everything I've mentioned but to me he's a good start. I just wanted to share more of my overall strategy for the knicks


As an Illini I've watched him for year. High character kid who takes his game very seriously. Very professional attitude already. Good vision, and has good size to be a PG at the next level. Doesn't take plays off, and also plays solid D. He can score as well, but loves to get teammates involved.

Ayo would be the PG I target in this draft. If we have to move up to get him, fine by me. He could be our answer at the PG position for the next 5-7 years.
User avatar
newyorker4ever
General Manager
Posts: 9,314
And1: 3,778
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#105 » by newyorker4ever » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:53 pm

How does M.Moody only have 2 votes? He's the best player on that list and we need his shooting.
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 51,403
And1: 57,964
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#106 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:27 pm

if the knicks are looking for someone who can immediately contribute right now, trey murphy is a nice 3 and d player
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
User avatar
Angryfatboy
RealGM
Posts: 27,657
And1: 17,729
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Queens, NY

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#107 » by Angryfatboy » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:17 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:How does M.Moody only have 2 votes? He's the best player on that list and we need his shooting.


No shot at him unless we trade up
User avatar
WargamesX
Veteran
Posts: 2,710
And1: 1,542
Joined: Apr 10, 2017
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#108 » by WargamesX » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:24 am

Are there any really good D&3 prospects in this draft?
Matthew 6:5
Luke 15:3-7
User avatar
Angryfatboy
RealGM
Posts: 27,657
And1: 17,729
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Queens, NY

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#109 » by Angryfatboy » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:13 pm

WargamesX wrote:Are there any really good D&3 prospects in this draft?


Check out the guy melo just posted trey Murphy

Mosses moody and chris durate are some other really good 3/D material guys.

Moody is only 18yrs old and probably out of our range
Chris Duarte is 24yrs old but closer to our range

Herbert Jones has 3D upside
User avatar
robillionaire
RealGM
Posts: 19,360
And1: 22,449
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
Location: Asheville
         

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#110 » by robillionaire » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:29 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:

Anyone like Juzang if he decides to stay in the draft? That shot looks effortless. 87% free throw shooter to go along with that.

Wouldn’t mind taking him with the early 2nd round pick


One thing about Juzang is he's a winner, and not afraid to take (and hit) big shot after big shot. He could be a surprise in the league if he lands with the right organization who is great at developing players.


this guy was a teammate of IQ at kentucky his first year and didn't get to really crack the rotation, not unlike quickley his first year. also not unlike quickley, he had a breakout season in year 2 when given a larger opportunity. he should be a no brainer, not sure why he's not even on draft boards. Actually now that I check ESPN has him 50th on their board. Yeah take a 2nd round flyer on him you'd be stupid not to
User avatar
Angryfatboy
RealGM
Posts: 27,657
And1: 17,729
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Queens, NY

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#111 » by Angryfatboy » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:44 pm

robillionaire wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:

Anyone like Juzang if he decides to stay in the draft? That shot looks effortless. 87% free throw shooter to go along with that.

Wouldn’t mind taking him with the early 2nd round pick


One thing about Juzang is he's a winner, and not afraid to take (and hit) big shot after big shot. He could be a surprise in the league if he lands with the right organization who is great at developing players.


this guy was a teammate of IQ at kentucky his first year and didn't get to really crack the rotation, not unlike quickley his first year. also not unlike quickley, he had a breakout season in year 2 when given a larger opportunity. he should be a no brainer, not sure why he's not even on draft boards. Actually now that I check ESPN has him 50th on their board. Yeah take a 2nd round flyer on him you'd be stupid not to


Tankathon just put him on their board too at #39
jvsimonetti0514
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,226
And1: 4,556
Joined: Dec 22, 2015
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#112 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:56 pm

Read on Twitter
I'm apart of a Knicks podcast! You Should check it out!
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWW9GUVpNULS97PyptXXU4w
8516knicks
Rookie
Posts: 1,076
And1: 560
Joined: May 18, 2017
   

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#113 » by 8516knicks » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:51 pm

Since people feel only one rookie will make the team/be drafted by us under Thibs, are there any good draft and stash Euros to consider?
NewKnicks
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,272
And1: 568
Joined: Feb 03, 2021
       

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#114 » by NewKnicks » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:54 pm

robillionaire wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:

Anyone like Juzang if he decides to stay in the draft? That shot looks effortless. 87% free throw shooter to go along with that.

Wouldn’t mind taking him with the early 2nd round pick


One thing about Juzang is he's a winner, and not afraid to take (and hit) big shot after big shot. He could be a surprise in the league if he lands with the right organization who is great at developing players.


this guy was a teammate of IQ at kentucky his first year and didn't get to really crack the rotation, not unlike quickley his first year. also not unlike quickley, he had a breakout season in year 2 when given a larger opportunity. he should be a no brainer, not sure why he's not even on draft boards. Actually now that I check ESPN has him 50th on their board. Yeah take a 2nd round flyer on him you'd be stupid not to


Agreed. If we could somehow get him with our first 2nd rounder (trade up if need be) to get him, he could be one of the surprises of the draft. We could use another player who's got that big-shot moxie. He fall under the same dog mentality that Randle/RJ/IQ have. Would love to snag him.
Nazrmohamed
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,166
And1: 2,487
Joined: May 16, 2013
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#115 » by Nazrmohamed » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 am

newyorker4ever wrote:How does M.Moody only have 2 votes? He's the best player on that list and we need his shooting.


In a way you just said it. People didn't vote for him because he doesn't belong on this list. He doesn't belong on this list because there's no way he makes it to even pick 15 let alone pick 18-22 where we have any chance of picking. Everyone else could go anywhere from 18-33 depending on who you ask.
Nazrmohamed
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,166
And1: 2,487
Joined: May 16, 2013
     

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#116 » by Nazrmohamed » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:31 am

robillionaire wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:

Anyone like Juzang if he decides to stay in the draft? That shot looks effortless. 87% free throw shooter to go along with that.

Wouldn’t mind taking him with the early 2nd round pick


One thing about Juzang is he's a winner, and not afraid to take (and hit) big shot after big shot. He could be a surprise in the league if he lands with the right organization who is great at developing players.


this guy was a teammate of IQ at kentucky his first year and didn't get to really crack the rotation, not unlike quickley his first year. also not unlike quickley, he had a breakout season in year 2 when given a larger opportunity. he should be a no brainer, not sure why he's not even on draft boards. Actually now that I check ESPN has him 50th on their board. Yeah take a 2nd round flyer on him you'd be stupid not to


Oh so that mean Kenny Payne knows him. You know this is happening then. I don't know him much but that video showed some things I like in a shooter. I mean at first I saw the assisted shooting off the hockey assists and wondered if there was more but hes got a good closeout game and some decent pull up. I can see it.

Does he defend though?
User avatar
TheGreenArrow
RealGM
Posts: 11,174
And1: 10,020
Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#117 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:12 am

He’s My pick in our range....

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 12,583
And1: 7,665
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#118 » by RHODEY » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:21 am

TheGreenArrow wrote:He’s My pick in our range....

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


13 and climbing seems out of our range.
User avatar
TheGreenArrow
RealGM
Posts: 11,174
And1: 10,020
Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#119 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:36 am

RHODEY wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:He’s My pick in our range....

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


13 and climbing seems out of our range.


Gotta hold out hope man. Either a trade up or Dallas doesn’t make the playoffs!!!!
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
BLACKFEET 2010
RealGM
Posts: 10,275
And1: 3,837
Joined: Jun 26, 2009

Re: 2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#120 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:40 am

Rokas Jokubaitis....
He’s very interesting too. Plays a lot like Goran Dragic.
Not a blow by athlete but crafty with a great feel.

Ibou Djanko Badji...if I’m spelling it right which I’m probably not lol, raw as heck but those euro clubs aren’t in the showcase or development business so you’ve gotta really deep dive to evaluate these guys. A Noel/Mitch type but with more ambition offensively than either.

Return to New York Knicks