RealGM

Nazrmohamed wrote:

NewKnicks wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:
I'm not doing all 3. Any 2 then sure and you may say we'll then the answer would be no from the other team. We'll ok, I'm willing to walk away. Top 7picks then perhaps. But 8-10 is still good but not transformative. At least from what I've seen.

Problem is two picks in the 20's won't get us into the top 10. It might get us a top 15 pick, but why not include Obi or Mitch and try to see how far we can get? This will be the last draft that this option is available. And since it's a stacked draft, might as well go for it to add a player that could really impact the franchise for years to come. 15 and below is still going to most likely get us a role player, so include what is needed to get up to 7-10. If all it takes is Obi, I say do it. There is star potential outside of the top 5, but by the time the draft comes around and GM's have had a much closer look at the prospects, most of the talent will be gone by 12-13.

I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

It probably won't happen because of the gauntlet the Knicks have to run over their last 8 games, but if the season ended today, the Knicks would have back to back picks heading into the first round - 21st & 22nd.

Last time that happened was 26 years ago they took Wallace and McCarty at 18th & 19th. Feels like ages ago, and at the same time just yesterday. I was there and still remember Brendan Byrne cheering for each non-Wallace pick, hoping he would fall to us, then EXPLODING when the Blazers took Jermaine O'Neil with the Knicks on deck. Pure pandemonium when the hometown kid Wallace was announced. While it didn't play out great, that was easily the best Knicks draft moment of all-time to me. Man. Ewing was epic, but everyone knew he was the pick going in.

robillionaire wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:

NewKnicks wrote:
Problem is two picks in the 20's won't get us into the top 10. It might get us a top 15 pick, but why not include Obi or Mitch and try to see how far we can get? This will be the last draft that this option is available. And since it's a stacked draft, might as well go for it to add a player that could really impact the franchise for years to come. 15 and below is still going to most likely get us a role player, so include what is needed to get up to 7-10. If all it takes is Obi, I say do it. There is star potential outside of the top 5, but by the time the draft comes around and GM's have had a much closer look at the prospects, most of the talent will be gone by 12-13.

I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

I know some folks have cooled on this draft, but it's been a while since this many kids projected to go in the 10-20 range had me excited. Granted I watched a lot of two of the biggest projects in the top 20 of this draft (Keon & Ziaire), so they don't feel as risky to me as they look on paper, but even excluding them there's a ton of exciting talent.

With two FRPs, the high DET SRP and Knox feeling unlikely to be back next season; I'm expecting the FO to move around a lot on draft day yet again. Hopefully we can walk away with something like Ziaire/Moody/Bouknight & Butler/Mann...especially if we can turn Elf into Lonzo in FA.

Lonzo | Rose | Butler
RJ | Quickley | Frank
Bullock | Burks | Ziaire
Randle | Toppin | Ziaire
Robinson | Noel | Toppin

Just looks like a squad that'll take another step next season and continue to grow as Butler & Ziaire replace Rose & Burks.

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:
I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

Agreed. People who are trying to make the statement that this draft is somehow overrated, did not watch much college bball this year. It was, and is a stacked draft top to bottom. All top 5 picks would have been the #1 pick last year. Outside of the top 5, there are another 5-8 players who have future star potential. The goal should be to get as high as we can, so we can get one more shot at hitting big on a draft pick.

This is probably the last draft for a while that we'll have the opportunity to get a really talented player. As the Knicks continue to improve, our picks will basically become useless moving forward because of our draft slots. `

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:
I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

You cant blame the leadership for the team does not suck...

The Front Office brought back the awful team from last year without some important rotation players like Portis, Wayne, Dotson and Taj (he was not on the roster at the beginning of the season). We brought instead cheaper players in Burks, Noel, and Rivers. Everybody thought we would be one of the worst teams in the NBA.

It is very astonishing that Randle, Bullock and RJ are so much better players now under Thibs...

with terrence clarke gone (rip), i want bones hyland as my primary draft target in the second round. he is basically like a taller, super saiyan version of IQ. his skill set is just ridiculous. maybe it's a blessing in disguise that he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament so he can drop to us
;t=86s

3toheadmelo wrote:with terrence clarke gone (rip), i want bones hyland as my primary draft target in the second round. he is basically like a taller, super saiyan version of IQ. his skill set is just ridiculous. maybe it's a blessing in disguise that he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament so he can drop to us

Watch on YouTube

;t=86s

Seems like he would fit right into Burks role for this team if IQ can continue to improve his pg play. Having a backcourt with two players who can logo bomb will be really hard to defend for any team. I'm hopeful the FO will prioritize 3pt shooting this draft given how much better the team has looked since the shots started falling.

Im just glad to see Obi progressing in every area of his game throughout the season... It gives me hope that our development team is doing something right !

This being said, the more I watch us play, and the more wins we collect, if we do select along the picks of 21 - 24, I love Tre Mann and his fit next to RJ and Julius and I love Miles McBride with his defensive tenacity

3toheadmelo wrote:with terrence clarke gone (rip), i want bones hyland as my primary draft target in the second round. he is basically like a taller, super saiyan version of IQ. his skill set is just ridiculous. maybe it's a blessing in disguise that he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament so he can drop to us

Watch on YouTube

;t=86s

He’s even got IQ’s haircut lol. You know his official height?

Angryfatboy wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:with terrence clarke gone (rip), i want bones hyland as my primary draft target in the second round. he is basically like a taller, super saiyan version of IQ. his skill set is just ridiculous. maybe it's a blessing in disguise that he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament so he can drop to us

Watch on YouTube

;t=86s

He’s even got IQ’s haircut lol. You know his official height?

all i see is 6'3. but i dont know, he looks bigger than that. maybe it's his wingspan that makes him look taller. when i first saw him i thought he was at least 6'6. his wingspan never got measured. has to be like 7'2 or some schit lol

3toheadmelo wrote:

Angryfatboy wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:with terrence clarke gone (rip), i want bones hyland as my primary draft target in the second round. he is basically like a taller, super saiyan version of IQ. his skill set is just ridiculous. maybe it's a blessing in disguise that he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament so he can drop to us

Watch on YouTube

;t=86s

He’s even got IQ’s haircut lol. You know his official height?

all i see is 6'3. but i dont know, he looks bigger than that. maybe it's his wingspan that makes him look taller. when i first saw him i thought he was at least 6'6. his wingspan never got measured. has to be like 7'2 or some schit lol

Yeah he’s being listed 6”3 but he looks more like 6”4 - 6”5 ish was curious if he grew a little.

Nice prospect though just gotta hit the gym.

The presentation can be improved, but I thought this was the best breakdown of Ziaire's game that I've seen or read yet...even picked up on something I hadn't noticed, his poor 1-legged leaping this season.

Does a good job of highlighting everything that excites me about him on both ends of the court...his dynamic defensive impact, his instincts as a passer, and that shot-making potential, both off-the-bounce as well as as a C&S guy...and it gives an honest assessment of the flaws that he'll need to improve to reach his potential; general polish and most importantly, gaining the strength to handle contact without getting pushed around and then improving his finishing once he's strong enough not to just bounce off of everyone.



EDIT:
His Jared Butler video is on point as well and highlights why I'm so confident he can become a good starting PG, who'd be perfect to platoon with IQ alongside Julius & RJ...even if he never becomes a star:




Sign Lonzo & Trent to replace Elf & Burks; draft Ziaire & Butler to groom behind Bullock & Rose; enjoy...

Lonzo | D. Rose | Butler
Barrett | Quickley | Frank
Bullock | Trent | Williams
Randle | Toppin | Knox II
Robinson | Noel | Gibson

...get it done Leon.

robillionaire wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:

NewKnicks wrote:
Problem is two picks in the 20's won't get us into the top 10. It might get us a top 15 pick, but why not include Obi or Mitch and try to see how far we can get? This will be the last draft that this option is available. And since it's a stacked draft, might as well go for it to add a player that could really impact the franchise for years to come. 15 and below is still going to most likely get us a role player, so include what is needed to get up to 7-10. If all it takes is Obi, I say do it. There is star potential outside of the top 5, but by the time the draft comes around and GM's have had a much closer look at the prospects, most of the talent will be gone by 12-13.

I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

You and me are almost 100% on the same page. The only thing I'll add is Schroeder too. I'm starting to respect his game as a solid option if we're talking about additions this summer. Alittle older at 27 but I guess I could live with that.

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:

Nazrmohamed wrote:
I've admittedly not been on my typical draft game, probably because of how well the Knicks have been doing but I don't see this draft as stacked as some view it. I think I said it elsewhere, lots of short players and bad shooting percentages. I hear alot of people trying to justify those percentages but everybody out here shooting 30% from 3. I do think the top 5 are legit and of course there'll be guys good elsewhere but you might just get lucky with pick 20 as quickly as you draft a bust in the lottery. Im not really trying to give up assets to move up.

If anything I'm trying to trade those picks 20&22 for top 25 players under 25. Remember that list that forgot about RJ? To me that's the holy grail of talents. But if not just stay put and go after upperclassmen who are likely to contribute in thier 1st 2 yrs.

I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

Rich to me sounds like deep. So you'd say this yrs picks 10-20 are better prospects than last yrs 10-20 cause that's my issue. Granted your point is right in terms of having a high pick cause that's where this yrs talent is. But that's not how I define talent rich. Talent rich are the yrs where you might have some second round steals and surprises. Where at pick 13 you're finding a Donovan Mitchell type of player. That I just dont see.

If you wanna say the Knicks should've positioned themselves for a top 5 pick, I won't dissagree with you but at the same time I'm fine with the results anyway. I mean, before the season that was sortve my goal, I thought Randle was getting traded, ya know pure rebuilding. Instead we built a winning culture so I'm ok with that too. Now I'm looking for guys that playoff teams look for when they draft, which typically is solid plug and play upperclassmen, guys with 1-2 nba ready skills and I'm having trouble finding that so I guess that's why I question the historically great aspect of this draft.

NewKnicks wrote:

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:
I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

Agreed. People who are trying to make the statement that this draft is somehow overrated, did not watch much college bball this year. It was, and is a stacked draft top to bottom. All top 5 picks would have been the #1 pick last year. Outside of the top 5, there are another 5-8 players who have future star potential. The goal should be to get as high as we can, so we can get one more shot at hitting big on a draft pick.

This is probably the last draft for a while that we'll have the opportunity to get a really talented player. As the Knicks continue to improve, our picks will basically become useless moving forward because of our draft slots. `

I'll admit you are describing me. There's nothing like winning games to distract you from scouting college and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

But ok, I'll let you be the expert. If what you say is true then we can't afford it. Toppin and 2 picks is like the type of trade fodder I'm using to land guys who could walk in and help us ( and I dont mean by being flashy, I'm talking about winning expectation). And that's why I said top player under 25 is a better talent pool.

Right? If the top 5 is that good they'd laugh at that deal Toppin and 2 picks in the 20s? Then Idk, then it starts shifting the other way where it's like.....we gotta give up all that for who Cory Kispert? So I just dont think there are trades involving our 2 picks that really end up better than simply drafting where we land. Hey, maybe what you're saying should give me hope that those picks will land me the nba ready upperclassmen I'm looking for. If the draft is good up top then maybe those guys start falling down to the 20s.

Nazrmohamed wrote:

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:
I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

Rich to me sounds like deep. So you'd say this yrs picks 10-20 are better prospects than last yrs 10-20 cause that's my issue. Granted your point is right in terms of having a high pick cause that's where this yrs talent is. But that's not how I define talent rich. Talent rich are the yrs where you might have some second round steals and surprises. Where at pick 13 you're finding a Donovan Mitchell type of player. That I just dont see.

If you wanna say the Knicks should've positioned themselves for a top 5 pick, I won't dissagree with you but at the same time I'm fine with the results anyway. I mean, before the season that was sortve my goal, I thought Randle was getting traded, ya know pure rebuilding. Instead we built a winning culture so I'm ok with that too. Now I'm looking for guys that playoff teams look for when they draft, which typically is solid plug and play upperclassmen, guys with 1-2 nba ready skills and I'm having trouble finding that so I guess that's why I question the historically great aspect of this draft.

Just looking at tankathon's list, I'd take this year's mid-1st rounders over last year's.

- I'd have Moody, Bouknight, & Ziaire over Avdijaj & Smith without a doubt, and probably have them over Hayes & Obi...though that may be tainted by Obi & Hayes' slowstarts, I wasn't super high on either one. And I expect one or two of Moody/Ziare/Bouknight to become legit stars...Bouknight in particular I can see being an instant late-lotto star, a la Booker/Mitchell, depending on where he lands. Moody & Ziaire, on the other hand, will need a little time to reach that H2O & PG 2.0 level that they can get to.
- Giddey & Kai Jones are higher ceilinged projects than last years' and may have snuck into my top 10 too, had they been in that draft...though I need to see more of both to feel confident in them reaching their potential.
- Kids like Springer, Garuba, Wagner & Jackson wouldn't go any lower last year than they will this year.
- Hell, I like Jared Butler more than I liked Cole Anthony and Butler hasn't been in people's top 20s for a minute.

This draft has a great top end, but the talent is very strong even past that quartet at the top.

Nazrmohamed wrote:

EMG518 wrote:

robillionaire wrote:
I agree with your assessment, you can't trade up into the top 5 and nobody else is worth trading up for. may as well just make the picks and let them gut it out in the g-league and hope you strike gold. either that or as you say package all the picks for a younger star. and since you mention the 25 under 25 list aka the holy grail of talents, lonzo is on it and he's a free agent, opportunities like that don't come up often, and we should cut the check. then when you consider RJ was snubbed from it plus IQ making a case for himself what a nice young core that would be

This is the most talent rich draft I have seen since I have been following. 10 years now. The fact that we don't have a high pick is another miscalculation by the Knicks leadership. Although it's not like we can draft anyway.

Rich to me sounds like deep. So you'd say this yrs picks 10-20 are better prospects than last yrs 10-20 cause that's my issue. Granted your point is right in terms of having a high pick cause that's where this yrs talent is. But that's not how I define talent rich. Talent rich are the yrs where you might have some second round steals and surprises. Where at pick 13 you're finding a Donovan Mitchell type of player. That I just dont see.

If you wanna say the Knicks should've positioned themselves for a top 5 pick, I won't dissagree with you but at the same time I'm fine with the results anyway. I mean, before the season that was sortve my goal, I thought Randle was getting traded, ya know pure rebuilding. Instead we built a winning culture so I'm ok with that too. Now I'm looking for guys that playoff teams look for when they draft, which typically is solid plug and play upperclassmen, guys with 1-2 nba ready skills and I'm having trouble finding that so I guess that's why I question the historically great aspect of this draft.

So I can't predict where people will get drafted. For instance for the Knicks pick last year I would have taken Haliburton without a second thought. If he wasn't there I would have taken Stewart or Avdija. All of those guys fell in the draft.

To me talent rich has nothing to do with where people get drafted, just how much talent is being brought into the league from that particular draft. This draft has far better talent and more of it than prior years in my opinion and it will become apparent once we see all of them in the league.

cgf wrote:His Jared Butler video is on point as well and highlights why I'm so confident he can become a good starting PG, who'd be perfect to platoon with IQ alongside Julius & RJ...even if he never becomes a star:

Watch on YouTube

THIS is the guard I want IF he falls to our pick. Only 20yrs old, solid in all facets and more polished than other guards and wings coming out.

On another note, there is no way NYK is bringing in 3-4 rookies so I expect them to package 2 of them to move up and/or package the 2nd round pick for a future 2nd pick in '23...or even to stash a young prospect abroad.

Huey Freeman wrote:

cgf wrote:His Jared Butler video is on point as well and highlights why I'm so confident he can become a good starting PG, who'd be perfect to platoon with IQ alongside Julius & RJ...even if he never becomes a star:

Watch on YouTube

THIS is the guard I want IF he falls to our pick. Only 20yrs old, solid in all facets and more polished than other guards and wings coming out.

On another note, there is no way NYK is bringing in 3-4 rookies so I expect them to package 2 of them to move up and/or package the 2nd round pick for a future 2nd pick in '23...or even to stash a young prospect abroad.

He's the same age IQ was and brings a lot of the same things to the table that IQ has going for him. He doesn't have the same length so he's not as positionally flexible defensively, but he's more developed as a passer/floor-general and I think they'd be great fits next to one another off the bench, even if neither one ever becomes starting caliber.