2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[El Poochio]

Garuba is a big, not a perimeter guy.

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

[El Poochio]

I know Garuba from youth competitions he has always been a beast

[cgf]

Garuba is a big, not a perimeter guy.

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

[El Poochio]

Garuba is a big, not a perimeter guy.

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

[cgf]

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

BPA isn't really a thing past the first handful of picks, different scouts on the same team will have radically different boards after the first couple of tiers. So you have to look at fit and developmental opportunity because it takes time to work with kids on things & there's only so much time to develop guys at the same spot.

Just feels like we could make much better use of our pick, especially if Ziaire, Bouknight, Moody or Butler makes it to our pick.

[El Poochio]

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

BPA isn't really a thing past the first handful of picks, different scouts on the same team will have radically different boards after the first couple of tiers. So you have to look at fit and developmental opportunity because it takes time to work with kids on things & there's only so much time to develop guys at the same spot.

Just feels like we could make much better use of our pick, especially if Ziaire, Bouknight, Moody or Butler makes it to our pick.

Well if you are looking for fit Garuba fits our identity and already has experience playing in top competitions so may come in and get minutes from day 1

I check tankathon and none of those really make it to our pick besides Ziaire, I guess Butler could be in that range too

[robillionaire]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

[Richard4444]

Garuba is a big, not a perimeter guy.

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Another PF after Randle and Obi?

[mpharris36]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

I think the knicks make one pick maybe. No way they are bringing in multiple rookies for thibs when he barely plays them now (especially with how impressive IQ was in his rookie campaign).

I think they will try to trade for a star...or like you mentioned trading completely out of the draft for more future picks (basically to keep the assets longer) is an option as well.

[El Poochio]

Garuba is a big, not a perimeter guy.

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Another PF after Randle and Obi?

Cornering the market of all the players who can guard Randle

[Richard4444]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

First, with our drawing luck, we will be picking 20 and 23.

Second, your observation about the lack of playing time for our rookies makes sense. I really doubt we will get more than 2 rookies in this draft. I will not be surprised if we trade all picks for a vet or be opened to trade some picks for a future FRP.

[cgf]

Ah the Thibs-won't-play-kids meme. It's so silly in a season where RJ is second on our team in minutes, Mitch was 3rd when he got hurt, IQ is playing 20 a game, Obi is a rotation regular despite just having started figuring things out recently, and both Ntilikina & Knox got opportunities to claim rotation spots.

Thibs has used every kid given to him as much as he could, and his staff has done an excellent job of developing them. It's time to recognize that the "thibs hates kids" thing is just a joke at this point.

[Richard4444]

Ah the Thibs-won't-play-kids meme. It's so silly in a season where RJ is second on our team in minutes, Mitch was 3rd when he got hurt, IQ is playing 20 a game, Obi is a rotation regular despite just having started figuring things out recently, and both Ntilikina & Knox got opportunities to claim rotation spots.

Thibs has used every kid given to him as much as he could, and his staff has done an excellent job of developing them. It's time to recognize that the "thibs hates kids" thing is just a joke at this point.

We have to be realistic. Thibs is a conservative and win-now guy. He only plays rookies when they play really well or when he really needs them (lack of vet options). RJ is an exception as a Top3 pick sophomore and future star. IQ had a great rookie season and played less than 20 minutes/game. Obi played well lately but he barely plays over 10 minutes/game and he was a #8 pick.

Next year, we will have for sure (barring blockbusters trades): Randle, RJ, Mitch, IQ, Obi, Knox and Luca. I believe we will easily bring back Rose, Bullock, and Taj as well. There will be 9 good players that will fight for playing time (I am not counting Knox). And we still have around 40M to spend on Free Agency. We for sure will bring more 3 to 4 vets to fight for playing time.

There will be around 12 to 13 vets fighting for playing time with our rookies. Most of them will be players from Thibs trust or high-paid vets. How well our 2021 no lottery rookies need to play from day 1 to beat the competition and conquer playing time under Thibs next season?

[cgf]

Ah the Thibs-won't-play-kids meme. It's so silly in a season where RJ is second on our team in minutes, Mitch was 3rd when he got hurt, IQ is playing 20 a game, Obi is a rotation regular despite just having started figuring things out recently, and both Ntilikina & Knox got opportunities to claim rotation spots.

Thibs has used every kid given to him as much as he could, and his staff has done an excellent job of developing them. It's time to recognize that the "thibs hates kids" thing is just a joke at this point.

We have to be realistic. Thibs is a conservative and win-now guy. He only plays rookies when they play really well or when he really needs them (lack of vet options). RJ is an exception as a Top3 pick sophomore and future star. IQ had a great rookie season and played less than 20 minutes/game. Obi played well lately but he barely plays over 10 minutes/game and he was a #8 pick.

Next year, we will have for sure (barring blockbusters trades): Randle, RJ, Mitch, IQ, Obi, Knox and Luca. I believe we will easily bring back Rose, Bullock, and Taj as well. There will be 9 good players that will fight for playing time (I am not counting Knox). And we still have around 40M to spend on Free Agency. We for sure will bring more 3 to 4 vets to fight for playing time.

There will be around 12 to 13 vets fighting for playing time with our rookies. Most of them will be players from Thibs trust or high-paid vets. How well our 2021 no lottery rookies need to play from day 1 to beat the competition and conquer playing time under Thibs next season?

Maybe to be realistic we should be examining what Thibs is actually doing, instead of just running with the pre-existing narratives about him?

Plus people put too much emphasis on immediate PT with rookies. It doesn't hurt a kid to adjust to the NBA & learn if they aren't ready for roles right away. Injuries happen and having kids being groomed for the future, to step in, is better than relying on failed picks and gleaguers for depth when injuries hit.

[Richard4444]

Ah the Thibs-won't-play-kids meme. It's so silly in a season where RJ is second on our team in minutes, Mitch was 3rd when he got hurt, IQ is playing 20 a game, Obi is a rotation regular despite just having started figuring things out recently, and both Ntilikina & Knox got opportunities to claim rotation spots.

Thibs has used every kid given to him as much as he could, and his staff has done an excellent job of developing them. It's time to recognize that the "thibs hates kids" thing is just a joke at this point.

We have to be realistic. Thibs is a conservative and win-now guy. He only plays rookies when they play really well or when he really needs them (lack of vet options). RJ is an exception as a Top3 pick sophomore and future star. IQ had a great rookie season and played less than 20 minutes/game. Obi played well lately but he barely plays over 10 minutes/game and he was a #8 pick.

Next year, we will have for sure (barring blockbusters trades): Randle, RJ, Mitch, IQ, Obi, Knox and Luca. I believe we will easily bring back Rose, Bullock, and Taj as well. There will be 9 good players that will fight for playing time (I am not counting Knox). And we still have around 40M to spend on Free Agency. We for sure will bring more 3 to 4 vets to fight for playing time.

There will be around 12 to 13 vets fighting for playing time with our rookies. Most of them will be players from Thibs trust or high-paid vets. How well our 2021 no lottery rookies need to play from day 1 to beat the competition and conquer playing time under Thibs next season?

Maybe to be realistic we should be examining what Thibs is actually doing, instead of just running with the pre-existing narratives about him?

Plus people put too much emphasis on immediate PT with rookies. It doesn't hurt a kid to adjust to the NBA & learn if they aren't ready for roles right away. Injuries happen and having kids being groomed for the future, to step in, is better than relying on failed picks and gleaguers for depth when injuries hit.

1) I examined what Thibs is doing. Read again.

2) My point is we probably will keep a "cheap roster" with 12 or more quality vet players fighting for playing time. It's unlikely a no-lottery rookie will outplay our vets. The rookie likely will start out of rotation.

3) Nobody is saying it's totally stupid to draft some rookies to keep them out of rotation. You can prepare them for the next seasons (maybe in G-league). Spurs usually do that. But the players tend to lose trade value and if we are planning to get a star, maybe it's better to trade the picks for future assets.

[stuporman]

Rookies are a way to get high potential talent affordably and fill out a roster with young players to develop so even though they may not get consistent minutes in the rotation right away I don't see the Knicks FO dumping picks because of the erroneous perception by some fans and media that Thibs doesn't play them.

[BugginOut]

Random question but isn’t Randle what Cade is projected to be in the NBA at his peak?

Randle is a 26 year old All-NBA point forward who is putting up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency with great defense and a 40% 3PT shot. Those are the kind of numbers I’d imagine Cade would put up in his best case scenario.

I think most GMs would turn us down if we did a Cade for Randle swap, but that just shows the foolishness of the draft and how people hype up these unproven prospects.

[Knicksfan1992]

Random question but isn’t Randle what Cade is projected to be in the NBA at his peak?

Randle is a 26 year old All-NBA point forward who is putting up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency with great defense and a 40% 3PT shot. Those are the kind of numbers I’d imagine Cade would put up in his best case scenario.

I think most GMs would turn us down if we did a Cade for Randle swap, but that just shows the foolishness of the draft and how people hype up these unproven prospects.

I think this is an interesting take. I think they have different styles. Cade is more perimeter oriented than Julius was coming into the league. Also his jumper is much further along than Julius's was. Julius kind of had to completely remodel his game from post bully to play finisher to now high post playmaker/shot creator.

I think Cade is in more of the Luka mold. Crafty wing sized guy who can run pick and roll and make every read in the book. He's not as good as Luka is, but he's about 80% of the way there. I think one of the bigger things Cade skeptics miss on is that OK State had like negative spacing. If you get him on a team that has at least 2 good shooters that's a MAJOR upgrade over what he had in College and his assist numbers will naturally inflate because of it.

I think while the raw numbers, at peak, may end up looking similar Cade's style of production might be a little more valuable than how Julius gets his numbers, but we also haven't seen the Knicks give this version of Julius really good talent to work with so who knows?

[stuporman]

Someone explain to me why Bouknight is a better prospect than Mann because I don't see it....for the Knicks I'd rather have Mann even if Bouk drops to the Knicks because Mann is the better facilitator and seems like the better shooter, too.

Bouk might have better hops and perceived upside potential but Mann just seems like the more versatile and Knicks type of 'gritty' player anyway. Although, I am open to hearing how Bouk is the better prospect if anyone could explain to me why you think it.

[knickstape4ever]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

I think the knicks make one pick maybe. No way they are bringing in multiple rookies for thibs when he barely plays them now (especially with how impressive IQ was in his rookie campaign).

I think they will try to trade for a star...or like you mentioned trading completely out of the draft for more future picks (basically to keep the assets longer) is an option as well.

I just don't see how we'd have the assets to acquire a star (w/o including RJ). our 2021 and future picks are less valuable now and outside of IQ and maybe Obi, what else is there to offer?

teams like the Warriors and Pelicans to name a couple can easily top any trade package for a star

I think they should keep the picks. look at a team like Denver or Boston, they kept most their picks and had multiple 1sts in a few drafts. that helps keep something sustainable

+ Nets traded #19 last year and the return was Shamet, so unlikely we can get much for our picks

I'd also personally rather trade Obi in a trade-up scenario than trade use both 1sts to move up. sunk cost fallacy comes to mind: Obi was likely drafted to replace Randle and now that Randle is a keeper, very few minutes for Obi....and yes I've heard the argument that they can play together but A) Thibs has shown no willingness to do that outside of 1-2 games at the start of the yr B) this team is built on defense, in large part due to having a rim protecting C