2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[stuporman]

Thibs is playing two rookies this year, by next year they aren't rookies anymore and who is to say he won't find time for two more if a few of the current players don't return?

Just because a rookie drafted in the second round doesn't play right away doesn't mean it's a waste to keep and make the selections. What's so different about journeymen reclamation projects sitting on the bench?

The FO may decide to condense to trade up or push off by trading for future picks or maybe use them in a trade to get the deal done. There's alot of possibilities even ones we don't see coming, who knows.

Surely not some nobody on the internet who has been wrong in their predictions 1000 times before thinking they know what the Knicks want or will do so pardon me if I have little confidence in their opinions.

[cgf]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

Perhaps the reason you feel this way is because of a perception ( because we've tanked so long) that every draft pick needs to have the potential to someday carry this franchise, often times with guys with low cielings.

Ex.
-I myself, wanted either Frank or DSJ when Donovan Mitchell came out and I remember like a bad dream saying why would we draft a 21yr old. Hes probably maxed out. Boy was I wrong.
- I remember wanting .....well I didn't want Knox but point is we took Knox when Mikal Bridges was available. Some would've taken MPJ who had potential but I maintain that even Bridges would've been such a better move


So I used my own examples cuz I'm not trying to attack you but to say all of us place way too high a value on high cieling but very very very very very low floor players. We're always dying for the guy who won't contribute to winning basketball for 5yrs in a town that only wants to give them 10 games.

Why do we do it to ourselves? Because we were tanking that's why. Well now we aren't. Now we should be looking at guys who playoff teams look at. Last yrs Horton-Tuckers and Desmond Banes. And with that said I can think of a few plug and play guys, the question is would you approve? Would they be too boring. I see a guy like Duarte and think he'll probably be no better than Bullock or Burks but guess what? He'll be that by January of his rookie season. I'm almost certain that Ayo Dusomnu will be a fringe starter but he could be that fringe starter in his first season (actually I think he'll be better than that but safe than sorry).

But yeah, if you can move up then move up. I just dont see the value unless it's top 5 really. I'd give up both picks to move to 10 dont get me wrong but I'm sure it'll take more than that. Maybe Toppin plus 2 picks. That's just allot for me to get Bouknight or Mitchell let's say.

That's not why though. It's more because we are a win-now team and Thibs is the coach. He just isn't going to play 4 rookies next year. Especially when the team is already pretty young as it is. I mean even toppin, who is 23 and was the national player of the year, isn't playing meaningful minutes this year. I wouldn't expect next year to be much different with whomever we draft. I would rather bring in 1 player for thibs to babysit than 4

Has anyone in the franchise said we are a "win now" team? As far as I can tell the only people who have said that are people trying to justify making "win now" decisions.

And that kid hating coach just had a 20yo RJ Barrett get the 2nd most minutes on the team, Mitch in 3rd for PT when he got hurt, IQ averaging 20 a night, Toppin getting regular burn even though he was awful for much of the season...and Thibs even tried to integrated Frank & Knox into the rotation.

So a) why is he suddenly going to stop using young players next year? and b) so what if he doesn't play them a ton as rookies? Plenty of our options will need some time to develop, and that's not a bad thing. This team isn't ready to compete for the championship yet, so there's no reason to act like we are a title-or-bust team.

[robillionaire]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

[BugginOut]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

I mean the rotation is already fine with Knox and Frank taking two roster spots. Whose to say we just don’t use those roster spots for two fresh new rookies? Yeah probably only 1 will realistically crack the rotation, but we can still develop them and we’d have them on cheap for 4 years. If we only get one rotation player from this draft I consider it a win.

[robillionaire]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

I mean the rotation is already fine with Knox and Frank taking two roster spots. Whose to say we just don’t use those roster spots for two fresh new rookies? Yeah probably only 1 will realistically crack the rotation, but we can still develop them and we’d have them on cheap for 4 years. If we only get one rotation player from this draft I consider it a win.

Well Frank in all likelihood will be gone after this season. And although Knox is under contract 1 more year he seems to be pretty much done here as well, So if you’re suggesting we can get two rookies to replace them and fill the role of the situational end of bench guys for next season while they develop, I agree they could do that. The 2nd rounders don’t matter as much, we can do a draft and stash of an international player or put them in the g league, or do like they did last years 33rd pick and just trade it back a couple years, at least they don’t get as much guaranteed money as the 1st rounders do. But I could easily see them moving the picks for an established player or consolidating them to select one prospect they highly value, it’s really not that far fetched to guess they might go this route given the team’s current success

[NewKnicks]

Looking like Draymond Green good value from where we are

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

Obi untouchable?

[NewKnicks]

Realistically I wonder how high we could trade up with packaging 19 21 32 and 58. Maybe into the late lotto? I’d even trade for future picks, those would be more useful in a trade later on. We just don’t need to bring in a heap of rookies that will never see playing time here on guaranteed contracts.

No chance Knicks add more than one rookie going into next year. Package all of our picks this, and maybe next year's first (which will possibly be lower than this year's, and move up as high as you can. All those picks could get us into the late lotto. Adding next year's might get us into the conversation for the 7-10 picks.

Take one of:
Barnes
Bouknight
Moody
Keon Johnson

Don't worry about position fits. Draft the best player on the board at that spot (7-12). Look to hit a home run, not a starter level player.

Or, keep our second 1st round pick this year and include Obi. Draft Barnes/Bouknight/Keon/Moody and Ayo. I like that scenario better.

[NewKnicks]

Random question but isn’t Randle what Cade is projected to be in the NBA at his peak?

Randle is a 26 year old All-NBA point forward who is putting up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency with great defense and a 40% 3PT shot. Those are the kind of numbers I’d imagine Cade would put up in his best case scenario.

I think most GMs would turn us down if we did a Cade for Randle swap, but that just shows the foolishness of the draft and how people hype up these unproven prospects.

Not even close. LOL. Cade is a point guard in the form of Magic Johnson. He's a floor general who who will bring the ball up the court 90% of possessions. Randle is a PF who does have some ball-handling skills, but is far, far from a point guard.

[NewKnicks]

Random question but isn’t Randle what Cade is projected to be in the NBA at his peak?

Randle is a 26 year old All-NBA point forward who is putting up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency with great defense and a 40% 3PT shot. Those are the kind of numbers I’d imagine Cade would put up in his best case scenario.

I think most GMs would turn us down if we did a Cade for Randle swap, but that just shows the foolishness of the draft and how people hype up these unproven prospects.

Cade is not overhyped. He is an immediate plug and play All-Star point guard.

[El Poochio]

Are you thinking we trade Obi? Cause having both him & Garuba feels kinda redundant...especially when we could really use someone to groom for Rose, Bullock or Burks' spots.

It's the same reason I don't love Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes for us even though I really like both of them as players...though JJ really needs to interview well for me to believe in him making good on his immense potential. Randle, Robinson & Toppin should cover most of the big man minutes in a year or two, so unless we're moving one of those 3 out, I'm not in love with adding a guy to that mix.

No Obi untouchable, he is more offensive big Garuba is more defensive they can compliment each other, always go BPA

Coming out of this draft with Garuba and BJ Boston, Boston is grooming for Burks - Bullock, IQ is already grooming for Rose, Garuba grooming for Taj

Obi untouchable?

You bet your ass

[Celo]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

[knickstape4ever]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

yeah I'd be thrilled if we could land them, especially Bouknight

[jvsimonetti0514]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

You mind posting the link?

[Nazrmohamed]

I can’t believe this needs to be said but I don’t make decisions for this team and also I am not a fortune teller. I am simply guessing what direction the team might take based on my perception and giving my opinion about what I would like the team do, which is the point of the message board. I am not asking you to have confidence in my opinion. jfc. I am just some random person who watches basketball

My opinion is that the team will be going in a direction that aims to be a contender as soon as possible, as we already have home court advantage in the playoffs this year. That is the next logical step up from where we are already. Not shifting back into a player development mode with 9 players on rookie contracts. (Knox, Mitch, RJ, Toppin, IQ, and 4 draft picks) Again, my opinion, feel free to disregard it

I could see them drafting an NBA ready player and that player may get spot minutes off the bench like Toppin or maybe a little extra if they play well like IQ did. But I just can’t envision a bunch of rookies cracking this rotation.

And that's what I was sort of trying to say. I think......actually I hope that we go after a guy who's a junior or senior who knows how to play or at least is secure in a couple nba skills. I keep saying Duarte cuz that's what I see. I also like Butler and Ayo. Rookie yr even if they are 9th or 10th men that's pretty solid right there if you can expect actual production, not some far off future potential. No no no, you play 10 minutes and I'm gonna maybe get 6pts but 6 pts when I need it at good efficiency while playing your heart out defensively. I just think the guys you trade up for are actually less likely to be impact players right away. I mean, they might put up some inconsistent meaningless stats off sheer talent but idk that any of them will give you much at a consistent level where you can bank on it. I hope I'm making sense but you know a guy like Bouknight is gonna be all over the place his rookie yr.

[cgf]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

That would be so perfect. Two guys with the talent to grow into that third star that RJ & Julius will need, or to become the centerpieces of a trade for that guy next summer.

[Richard4444]

ESPN's newest mock has us taking Bouk and Ziaire. Man this board would sure be ecstatic

I suspect they force good drafts to the Knicks to sell clicks and subscriptions.

[3toheadmelo]

yeah Bouknight and Ziarie is an excellent draft. I am very high on Bouknight and I prefer Ziarie over BJ Boston for a long term project

[Nazrmohamed]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

[3toheadmelo]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

i think he is significantly more talented than Knox. he can create off the dribble and he’s shown flashes of playmaking (had a triple double earlier this season. im sure cgf can back this up, he saw like every game of Ziarie

Watch on YouTube

[Nazrmohamed]

What is the love for Zaire about. He has Kevin Knox written all over him. The guy shot 37/29 and floats around the 3pt line all game. The only positive is his age and we're a playoff team which makes that sortve a moot point. Somebody sell me. He's not overly athletic. At least with Kevin you could've been fooled by the fact that he went to an extremely competitive school in terms of competition internally and at least when he was drafted we thought he was 6'10, although he turned out about 6'8.

i think he is significantly more talented than Knox. he can create off the dribble and he’s shown flashes of playmaking (had a triple double earlier this season. im sure cgf can back this up, he saw like every game of Ziarie

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I still don't see it and what's worse is that's a video that must show the 37% of the times he actually makes a basket. His dribble is high, he reminds me of Trevor Ariza which I might actually put up with offensively if he came in as good defensively as Ariza and then could spend the next 4 yrs rebuilding his shot. I have enough trouble figuring out whether guys who shoot 38% from 3 in college will fall to 33 in the nba. How can one feel comfortable with a guy that skinny shooting at 29%. Those are his peers he's shooting against.