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What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton?

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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#21 » by Kampuchea » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:17 pm

Would be nice if Burks came back and Payton was dropped from the lineup. Can Burks start at PG? Or maybe Rose starts and IQ/Burks is the backcourt bench tandem.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#22 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Angry fans and terrible guard play.
Any more questions?
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#23 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:30 pm

Kampuchea wrote:Would be nice if Burks came back and Payton was dropped from the lineup. Can Burks start at PG? Or maybe Rose starts and IQ/Burks is the backcourt bench tandem.


rose would be the better idea to start and burks can keep rose fresh and still get 24 minutes or so off the bench easily. mix and match as needed. but you kind of don't need payton in this rotation any longer when burks comes back. there are enough ballhandlers to be in the rotation without him.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#24 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:31 pm

Anyone notice Randle last night...shaking his head at Elfturd? He looked pissed and turd boy had a sour face the rest of the game/post game.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#25 » by BKlutch » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:36 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:Anyone notice Randle last night...shaking his head at Elfturd? He looked pissed and turd boy had a sour face the rest of the game/post game.

I saw that look, too. I knew what he was thinking - it was right after some bone headed play by Elf - think when he lost the ball. They will not let a guard ruin Randle's and the Knicks' game next year after we trade for somebody better.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#26 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:38 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:Anyone notice Randle last night...shaking his head at Elfturd? He looked pissed and turd boy had a sour face the rest of the game/post game.


:o

screen shots or it didn't happen.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#27 » by cgf » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:49 pm

Elf is there to make Quickley feel better about himself when he's having an off night.

Morale is really important with young players...
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#28 » by Richard4444 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:01 pm

I can think of some reasons:

1) We don't have another PG on the roster besides Rose. Frank, IQ, and RJ are currently very poor playmakers. I don't think Thibs likes Harper very much.

2) He apparently has a great work ethic and he is a nice guy.

3) Thibs has a conservative mind and doesn't want to disrupt things.

4) Payton might have waited for us in Free Agency as a fallback option and agreed to be paid less than the previous season.

5) Payton is in a contract year and needs playing time to be remembered next season.

6) Payton is an average defender with good size and he a good driver (awful finisher and shooter). Last season, he was good at playmaking.

7) We did not want someone marginally better than Payton. We want a great player for the position. The front office must have thought it's not worthy to give away assets for a short-term upgrade.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#29 » by ellobo » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:34 pm

I'm as big an Elf hater as you'll find, but I actually kind of understand it. Thibs has eyes in his head, the same or better analytics as we do, and he's not stupid. The way he sits Elf in crunch time, he KNOWS.
1. Team is winning. If it ain't broke, don't break it.
2. Rose is playing great in his current role, works well with Quickley, and hasn't played 30 minutes per game in four years. If it ain't broke, don't break it.
3. The other alternatives are not really point guards (Frank, Burks) and an inconsistent rookie (Quickley). Maybe the team would still be better off overall with one of them starting and having Randle and RJ take up the ballhandling slack (which they are capable of and already do a lot of). I'd actually like to see this, as would a lot of other people here. But see #1. If it ain't broke don't break it.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#30 » by KnicksGod » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:40 pm

He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#31 » by br7knicks » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:42 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:Would be nice if Burks came back and Payton was dropped from the lineup. Can Burks start at PG? Or maybe Rose starts and IQ/Burks is the backcourt bench tandem.


rose would be the better idea to start and burks can keep rose fresh and still get 24 minutes or so off the bench easily. mix and match as needed. but you kind of don't need payton in this rotation any longer when burks comes back. there are enough ballhandlers to be in the rotation without him.


burks can play a bit as playmaker. so he's not as needed with randle - although, it'd be great to have 2 playmakers at the same time. plus, burks can stretch the floor, which would play well into randle.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#32 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:53 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:Anyone notice Randle last night...shaking his head at Elfturd? He looked pissed and turd boy had a sour face the rest of the game/post game.


:o

screen shots or it didn't happen.


I don't know how to do all of that tech shyt. I know it was later in the game. Happened a couple of times. Once Randle was trying to inbound the ball and Turd did something stupid. They both made WTF expressions but..Randle seems upset where Payton seemed butt hurt. Then ere was another head shake moment from Randle as he was sitting during a timeout. Pretty sure that was after a Payton turnover.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#33 » by Zenzibar » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:55 pm

KnicksGod wrote:He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.



Payton is part of the winning formula right now. He starts, eats some minutes as you mentioned and allows Rose to play good amount of mnutes without burnout.

Once Burks comes back the team will be even more versitile. We're winning so no complaints from me.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#34 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:55 pm

KnicksGod wrote:He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.


I would rather see Frank get those minutes. At least he provides some spacing and defense. Much better defense actually.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#35 » by NowWHYcee7 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:57 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.


I would rather see Frank get those minutes. At least he provides some spacing and defense. Much better defense actually.


This. I don’t want rose starting because he seems
comfortable where he’s at. I’d like to see Frank start instead.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#36 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:00 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.


I would rather see Frank get those minutes. At least he provides some spacing and defense. Much better defense actually.


i think frank is starving right now too. y'all seen how in the little time he's gotten this year he's been more aggressive. there just seem to be better options in front of him now (aside from payton).



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i'd rather see this (even in spurts as a reserve) with the defense, shooting, and ball movement instincts than anything payton has to offer.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#37 » by BKlutch » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:04 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:Anyone notice Randle last night...shaking his head at Elfturd? He looked pissed and turd boy had a sour face the rest of the game/post game.


:o

screen shots or it didn't happen.


I don't know how to do all of that tech shyt. I know it was later in the game. Happened a couple of times. Once Randle was trying to inbound the ball and Turd did something stupid. They both made WTF expressions but..Randle seems upset where Payton seemed butt hurt. Then ere was another head shake moment from Randle as he was sitting during a timeout. Pretty sure that was after a Payton turnover.

I saw this on MSG. Today I looked at the game replay on ESPN but couldn't find it. Actually, after looking at Elf's bad plays for 30 minutes, I was so overcome I just couldn't look any more. But I think it was a closeup of Julius on MSG that I couldn't find on ESPN.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#38 » by louisorr » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:10 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:He's essentially resting the other guards early on by eating up minutes, so they are fresher in the second half.


I would rather see Frank get those minutes. At least he provides some spacing and defense. Much better defense actually.


This. I don’t want rose starting because he seems
comfortable where he’s at. I’d like to see Frank start instead.

I'm not a Payton supporter. But my theory is...without his skill teams would actually play us much differently on D. Guys would just stick to their man on the perimeter because Frank can't drive to the rim at all and when Burks,RJ or Randle drive to the rim the whole arena can prepare for it. They are successful because of their strength and craftiness, but they don't have the speed or first step that Payton has, which helps create chaotic rotations by the D and opens up our outside shooting. He's the only one that provides that semblance of DRoses driving gravity.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#39 » by Oscirus » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:11 pm

I think with franks defense it would be preferable for them to just start him esp with randle and rj doing most of the heavy lifting nowadays in terms of playmaking.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#40 » by Polk377 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:15 pm

Payton plays enough for Rose not to get burned out throughout the game. I don't think Thibs sees Frank as a PG and doesn't trust IQ enough yet to be the primary playmaker on the court. IQ does get pretty wild at times and looks for his own more than the team. When Payton is in attack mode and getting to the basket he could be a positive for the team. Right now he is just a consistent body to start the game and get the ball to Randle.

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