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What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton?

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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#61 » by Butch718 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:02 am

Man not sure who was worse at PG the last 10 or so years, Elf or Toney Douglas. :lol:
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#62 » by matchman » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:25 am

Does Perry still have any power to keep Payton played in this team?
Are you fans of the team or the player?
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#63 » by RShahNyC89 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:33 am

frothbrain wrote:1. CAA Perks?
2. Thibs lulling the opposing team to a false sense of security?

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307704

Only player with a negative +/- and -9


Literally minutes.

Saving Rose

Saving Quick from Rookie wall

He letting those two close out anyways, I'm sure playoff time Payton's minutes get a legit buzzcut and we start seeing 2nd half knicks for both halves.

TBH I think those minutes are better served going to Frank but Thibs and Randle don't trust Frankie like that.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#64 » by HighRyzer83 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:27 am

The best thing elfrid brings is coming $5 mil off the cap next year. Maybe we can find some sucker to take him for a 2nd round pick.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#65 » by BBALLER4FR » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:15 am

The answer to the thread is "heartburn". Now pass me some TUMS so Thibs can force feed us that greasy, talent-less gristle he calls a starting point guard.
Sooooo..ummmm.....we tanking again or what?
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#66 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:26 am

HighRyzer83 wrote:The best thing elfrid brings is coming $5 mil off the cap next year. Maybe we can find some sucker to take him for a 2nd round pick.


He helps save us DRose for the playoffs. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Thibs eventually insert Rose into the starting lineup
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#67 » by gavran » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:53 am

Pain and suffering, a.k.a the classic Knicks fan experience. So stop complaining.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#68 » by mpharris36 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:28 pm

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#69 » by robillionaire » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:39 pm

mpharris36 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?


looking at that it's apparent that Rose has taken over as our premier PG, he's not starting games but he's playing more minutes than Payton in the stretch (27.4 to 19.1) and closing games. And when you look at IQ and his rating in the stretch, he is playing insanely well in his role as well and much of that is with Rose.

My first instinct would have been to start rose and IQ, as they've been far and away our best guards, and use Payton as a backup, but seeing as how the current method has led to 9 wins in a row I don't see why we'd mess with what's worked
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#70 » by mpharris36 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:48 pm

robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?


looking at that it's apparent that Rose has taken over as our premier PG, he's not starting games but he's playing more minutes than Payton in the stretch (27.4 to 19.1) and closing games. And when you look at IQ and his rating in the stretch, he is playing insanely well in his role as well and much of that is with Rose.

My first instinct would have been to start rose and IQ, as they've been far and away our best guards, and use Payton as a backup, but seeing as how the current method has led to 9 wins in a row I don't see why we'd mess with what's worked


I think continuously asking for the bench to get us out of a hole that Payton puts us in is faulty logic. I agree you wont see Thibs change anything up during a win steak. But I don't think its sustainable to ask Rose to play +30 minutes off the bench consistently. That is +15 minute stretches without resting for a older player in Rose.

Also factor in Burks when he comes back...whos minutes does he take? Before he got COVID it was mostly IQ's minutes he was effecting. That simply can't be the case anymore with how important quickly is to the team. When Burks comes back...Rose needs to start and Burks needs to take all of Payton minutes.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#71 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:01 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?


looking at that it's apparent that Rose has taken over as our premier PG, he's not starting games but he's playing more minutes than Payton in the stretch (27.4 to 19.1) and closing games. And when you look at IQ and his rating in the stretch, he is playing insanely well in his role as well and much of that is with Rose.

My first instinct would have been to start rose and IQ, as they've been far and away our best guards, and use Payton as a backup, but seeing as how the current method has led to 9 wins in a row I don't see why we'd mess with what's worked


I think continuously asking for the bench to get us out of a hole that Payton puts us in is faulty logic. I agree you wont see Thibs change anything up during a win steak. But I don't think its sustainable to ask Rose to play +30 minutes off the bench consistently. That is +15 minute stretches without resting for a older player in Rose.

Also factor in Burks when he comes back...whos minutes does he take? Before he got COVID it was mostly IQ's minutes he was effecting. That simply can't be the case anymore with how important quickly is to the team. When Burks comes back...Rose needs to start and Burks needs to take all of Payton minutes.


In a playoff series you can see how Payton will become even more of a liability. It will be a lot more tougher to overcome those Payton minutes when teams are game planning more so. Nobody guards Payton even now so he's forced to take a lot of shots. It will just get worse in the playoffs. We def dont want to live and die with Payton's low efficient scoring.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#72 » by robillionaire » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:02 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?


looking at that it's apparent that Rose has taken over as our premier PG, he's not starting games but he's playing more minutes than Payton in the stretch (27.4 to 19.1) and closing games. And when you look at IQ and his rating in the stretch, he is playing insanely well in his role as well and much of that is with Rose.

My first instinct would have been to start rose and IQ, as they've been far and away our best guards, and use Payton as a backup, but seeing as how the current method has led to 9 wins in a row I don't see why we'd mess with what's worked


I think continuously asking for the bench to get us out of a hole that Payton puts us in is faulty logic. I agree you wont see Thibs change anything up during a win steak. But I don't think its sustainable to ask Rose to play +30 minutes off the bench consistently. That is +15 minute stretches without resting for a older player in Rose.

Also factor in Burks when he comes back...whos minutes does he take? Before he got COVID it was mostly IQ's minutes he was effecting. That simply can't be the case anymore with how important quickly is to the team. When Burks comes back...Rose needs to start and Burks needs to take all of Payton minutes.


I'd be okay with that but I actually like the way Rose and IQ are playing without Burks playing hero ball. I'd almost suggest starting Burks at PG and keeping everything else the same
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#73 » by Capn'O » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:20 pm

:dontknow:
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RIP Mags :beer:
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#74 » by robillionaire » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:21 pm

robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
looking at that it's apparent that Rose has taken over as our premier PG, he's not starting games but he's playing more minutes than Payton in the stretch (27.4 to 19.1) and closing games. And when you look at IQ and his rating in the stretch, he is playing insanely well in his role as well and much of that is with Rose.

My first instinct would have been to start rose and IQ, as they've been far and away our best guards, and use Payton as a backup, but seeing as how the current method has led to 9 wins in a row I don't see why we'd mess with what's worked


I think continuously asking for the bench to get us out of a hole that Payton puts us in is faulty logic. I agree you wont see Thibs change anything up during a win steak. But I don't think its sustainable to ask Rose to play +30 minutes off the bench consistently. That is +15 minute stretches without resting for a older player in Rose.

Also factor in Burks when he comes back...whos minutes does he take? Before he got COVID it was mostly IQ's minutes he was effecting. That simply can't be the case anymore with how important quickly is to the team. When Burks comes back...Rose needs to start and Burks needs to take all of Payton minutes.


I'd be okay with that but I actually like the way Rose and IQ are playing without Burks playing hero ball. I'd almost suggest starting Burks at PG and keeping everything else the same


Just to further elaborate on that, I don't want to break up the Rose and IQ combo, if you start both you'd have to bench Bullock as well, and I don't think I'd do that either as he and Randle have solid chemistry and his defense is important in the starting lineup. Randle is effectively the point guard when he's on the floor. The ball is frequently in his hands, and with Burks out there around the perimeter instead of Payton it gives Randle another guy to kick the ball out to. Burks actually played backup PG and closed games a few times this year and it wasn't terrible

Not sure who you'd close the game with though, I guess whoever has been the two hottest out of Rose, IQ, Bullock and Burks. Along with RJ, Randle, and Noel who should be solidified as closers
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#75 » by F N 11 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:25 pm

gavran wrote:Pain and suffering, a.k.a the classic Knicks fan experience. So stop complaining.

We have to complain now. He's unplayable in the playoffs.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#76 » by F N 11 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:26 pm

mpharris36 wrote:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&DateFrom=04%2F08%2F2021

horrible play that has nearly cost them multiple game during this 9 game winning streak.

this is the NET ratings of the knicks 9 game winning streak...can anyone spot the problem?

sheesh
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#77 » by Knicks365247 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:29 pm

We need to put that ELF on a SHELF! Ship him to the North Pole for all I care. I don't want him playing any meaningful minutes for our beloved New York KNACKS!
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#78 » by Kampuchea » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:42 pm

We need Elf for the playoffs. It tends to get more physical and Elf is our biggest and strongest PG. He struggles with finesse regular season ball but playoff Payton is what we’ve been waiting for and will be rewarded in a few weeks.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#79 » by Gravy » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:06 pm

Teams must get confused going from defending Elf to defending Rose. No other teams have a rotation like the knicks.
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Re: What are the Knicks getting out of playing Payton? 

Post#80 » by mpharris36 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:07 pm

Kampuchea wrote:We need Elf for the playoffs. It tends to get more physical and Elf is our biggest and strongest PG. He struggles with finesse regular season ball but playoff Payton is what we’ve been waiting for and will be rewarded in a few weeks.


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