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The Return of Mitchell Robinson

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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#61 » by louisorr » Tue May 18, 2021 10:20 pm

Not enough Elfrid bashing in this thread. I’m disappointed in all of you.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#62 » by thebuzzardman » Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 pm

louisorr wrote:Not enough Elfrid bashing in this thread. I’m disappointed in all of you.


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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#63 » by KnixtapeH20 » Tue May 18, 2021 10:44 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgf wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Maybe he likes being in New York. Maybe he likes working with Kenny Payne and Thibs and gives us a discount. Who knows really

We still shouldn't be committing any long-term money to him this summer when we have a younger & better version of him signed for nothing next season, need to upgrade on Elf this summer, and could be Max-hunting in the summer of 2022.

So if Nerlens is going to turn down a multi-year offer...again...then sure, but if he wants term he's probably going to have to get it somewhere else.


Thibs the other day commented that he’s the anchor of our defense, he might think he’s more important to our success than y’all do

“[Noel’s] gift is obviously the rim protection, obviously his pick-and-roll defense is outstanding. Those blocks were huge from us, got us into the open floor, created some easy scores,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “He probably could have had a couple more. One he knocked in, the other one I thought was real close, it ended up being a goal tending play.

“And then he alters a lot of shots because everyone is looking for him. He has great value, he’s the anchor of the defense.”

He's a light weight rock tangled in seaweed that has filled in admirably after our best defensive player and without question our ANCHOR went down for the season.

Mitch is sorely sorely missed. We'd have at least 3-4 more wins with my boy Mitch. Hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#64 » by robillionaire » Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 pm

KnixtapeH20 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgf wrote:We still shouldn't be committing any long-term money to him this summer when we have a younger & better version of him signed for nothing next season, need to upgrade on Elf this summer, and could be Max-hunting in the summer of 2022.

So if Nerlens is going to turn down a multi-year offer...again...then sure, but if he wants term he's probably going to have to get it somewhere else.


Thibs the other day commented that he’s the anchor of our defense, he might think he’s more important to our success than y’all do

“[Noel’s] gift is obviously the rim protection, obviously his pick-and-roll defense is outstanding. Those blocks were huge from us, got us into the open floor, created some easy scores,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “He probably could have had a couple more. One he knocked in, the other one I thought was real close, it ended up being a goal tending play.

“And then he alters a lot of shots because everyone is looking for him. He has great value, he’s the anchor of the defense.”

He's a light weight rock tangled in seaweed that has filled in admirably after our best defensive player and without question our ANCHOR went down for the season.

Mitch is sorely sorely missed. We'd have at least 3-4 more wins with my boy Mitch. Hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet.


We were below .500 with him starting but you are welcome to your opinion
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#65 » by robillionaire » Tue May 18, 2021 11:50 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:So I mentioned on the NBNF podcast...

I understand that folks really like the guys on this team and I would like to bring as many of them back as possible, but you have to realize that a lot of how they have been playing and performing as a group has to do with Thibs and his coaching staff. Realize that none of these guys prior to the season were known as defensive stars. The fact that they are the top defensive team is an indication that the system creates them. What does that mean? It means that the chances that the Knicks defense tanking next season if we don't bring these guys back is a bit farfetched...and on offense they can only go up right? So everyone is zoned in on the "Next man up" mantra right? Well that also applies to guys that are not on the team that, if any of these current Knick FA's price themselves out, can step in and perform the same type of roles and give the Knicks the same type of results. That's what a great culture and a system creates, it's why that's important...so you can lose players and not be impacted by it.

So don't get so locked in on must keeping any one guy.


Excellent post.

Who on this team is being named to an all NBA defensive team this season? I bet not one player.


IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#66 » by KnixtapeH20 » Tue May 18, 2021 11:57 pm

robillionaire wrote:
KnixtapeH20 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Thibs the other day commented that he’s the anchor of our defense, he might think he’s more important to our success than y’all do

“[Noel’s] gift is obviously the rim protection, obviously his pick-and-roll defense is outstanding. Those blocks were huge from us, got us into the open floor, created some easy scores,” coach Tom Thibodeau said. “He probably could have had a couple more. One he knocked in, the other one I thought was real close, it ended up being a goal tending play.

“And then he alters a lot of shots because everyone is looking for him. He has great value, he’s the anchor of the defense.”

He's a light weight rock tangled in seaweed that has filled in admirably after our best defensive player and without question our ANCHOR went down for the season.

Mitch is sorely sorely missed. We'd have at least 3-4 more wins with my boy Mitch. Hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential yet.


We were below .500 with him starting but you are welcome to your opinion

Without Mitch we would of had one of the worst records. Our increase in wins is attributed to everyone finding their groove and that includes Noel but more importantly Rose, Quick, Bull and of course Randle.

Also while Mitch was playing Elfrid was playing 30+ minutes a game. The missed assignments and blown defenses Mitch had to cover up and account for was ridiculous. Mitch also boxes out and gets dirty on both sides of the boards. Noel only goes for blocks.

While I can appreciate every player on this team outside of Payton, Noel leaves a lot to be desired. He is what he is, 160 jumping bean. He tries hard but he's limited to what he can do and he does that well to his credit.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#67 » by thebuzzardman » Wed May 19, 2021 2:40 am

robillionaire wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:So I mentioned on the NBNF podcast...

I understand that folks really like the guys on this team and I would like to bring as many of them back as possible, but you have to realize that a lot of how they have been playing and performing as a group has to do with Thibs and his coaching staff. Realize that none of these guys prior to the season were known as defensive stars. The fact that they are the top defensive team is an indication that the system creates them. What does that mean? It means that the chances that the Knicks defense tanking next season if we don't bring these guys back is a bit farfetched...and on offense they can only go up right? So everyone is zoned in on the "Next man up" mantra right? Well that also applies to guys that are not on the team that, if any of these current Knick FA's price themselves out, can step in and perform the same type of roles and give the Knicks the same type of results. That's what a great culture and a system creates, it's why that's important...so you can lose players and not be impacted by it.

So don't get so locked in on must keeping any one guy.


Excellent post.

Who on this team is being named to an all NBA defensive team this season? I bet not one player.


IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it


It would be, but he's not making first team all NBA. It's not how the NBA works.

And not sure he's making 2nd team, just because the NBA is lame.

I bet not one Knick player makes it. Not name brand enough.
Maybe Noel though, because he was a high pick once upon a time...
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#68 » by robillionaire » Wed May 19, 2021 3:16 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Excellent post.

Who on this team is being named to an all NBA defensive team this season? I bet not one player.


IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it


It would be, but he's not making first team all NBA. It's not how the NBA works.

And not sure he's making 2nd team, just because the NBA is lame.

I bet not one Knick player makes it. Not name brand enough.
Maybe Noel though, because he was a high pick once upon a time...


I don’t think he’ll make first team either because Gobert was even better but I don’t see who else I’d take over him defensively
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#69 » by cgf » Wed May 19, 2021 3:47 am

robillionaire wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:So I mentioned on the NBNF podcast...

I understand that folks really like the guys on this team and I would like to bring as many of them back as possible, but you have to realize that a lot of how they have been playing and performing as a group has to do with Thibs and his coaching staff. Realize that none of these guys prior to the season were known as defensive stars. The fact that they are the top defensive team is an indication that the system creates them. What does that mean? It means that the chances that the Knicks defense tanking next season if we don't bring these guys back is a bit farfetched...and on offense they can only go up right? So everyone is zoned in on the "Next man up" mantra right? Well that also applies to guys that are not on the team that, if any of these current Knick FA's price themselves out, can step in and perform the same type of roles and give the Knicks the same type of results. That's what a great culture and a system creates, it's why that's important...so you can lose players and not be impacted by it.

So don't get so locked in on must keeping any one guy.


Excellent post.

Who on this team is being named to an all NBA defensive team this season? I bet not one player.


IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it

What a great job of illustrating how misleading numbers can be...especially ones that are as faulty as defensive stats in the NBA.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#70 » by robillionaire » Wed May 19, 2021 4:20 am

cgf wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Excellent post.

Who on this team is being named to an all NBA defensive team this season? I bet not one player.


IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it

What a great job of illustrating how misleading numbers can be...especially ones that are as faulty as defensive stats in the NBA.


numbers don’t matter when they don’t suit the agenda, 10-4
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#71 » by waya » Wed May 19, 2021 1:04 pm

Ray Williams wrote:
waya wrote:Love Mitch and hope we keep him but some of the fanboying around here for him is... interesting.

If by fanboying you mean appreciating great defense why would that be interesting? I hope we keep him but find some of the posts here ...assholish.


Nah by fanboying, I mean kids like you who get butthurt at the slightest criticism of the guy. :roll:

Mitch is valuable but more or less still the same player he was three years ago. Some of you treat him like he's a bonafide star/untouchable
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#72 » by cgf » Wed May 19, 2021 2:01 pm

waya wrote:
Ray Williams wrote:
waya wrote:Love Mitch and hope we keep him but some of the fanboying around here for him is... interesting.

If by fanboying you mean appreciating great defense why would that be interesting? I hope we keep him but find some of the posts here ...assholish.


Nah by fanboying, I mean kids like you who get butthurt at the slightest criticism of the guy. :roll:

Mitch is valuable but more or less still the same player he was three years ago. Some of you treat him like he's a bonafide star/untouchable

:lol: :lol: :lol:
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#73 » by waya » Wed May 19, 2021 2:46 pm

cgf wrote:
waya wrote:
Ray Williams wrote: If by fanboying you mean appreciating great defense why would that be interesting? I hope we keep him but find some of the posts here ...assholish.


Nah by fanboying, I mean kids like you who get butthurt at the slightest criticism of the guy. :roll:

Mitch is valuable but more or less still the same player he was three years ago. Some of you treat him like he's a bonafide star/untouchable

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My bad, forgot about the clips of him crossing over scrubs at his local YMCA. You right
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#74 » by cgf » Wed May 19, 2021 2:54 pm

waya wrote:
cgf wrote:
waya wrote:
Nah by fanboying, I mean kids like you who get butthurt at the slightest criticism of the guy. :roll:

Mitch is valuable but more or less still the same player he was three years ago. Some of you treat him like he's a bonafide star/untouchable

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My bad, forgot about the clips of him crossing over scrubs at his local YMCA. You right

You're right. It's not like everyone was saying that Mitch's biggest problem coming in was his foul rate and he has learned to cut that from 5.7 fouls per 36 as a rookie coming off the bench, to 3.6 fouls per 36 as a starter this season, while remaining an elite rim-protector. That all doesn't matter, what matters is that his shooting is comparable to Noel's... :lol:
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#75 » by waya » Wed May 19, 2021 3:10 pm

cgf wrote:
waya wrote:
cgf wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My bad, forgot about the clips of him crossing over scrubs at his local YMCA. You right

You're right. It's not like everyone was saying that Mitch's biggest problem coming in was his foul rate and he has learned to cut that from 5.7 fouls per 36 as a rookie coming off the bench, to 3.6 fouls per 36 as a starter this season, while remaining an elite rim-protector. That all doesn't matter, what matters is that his shooting is comparable to Noel's... :lol:


Safe to say foul rate falls into the "more or less" of my statement :lol: it's an improvement but if you're willing to anoint him because he doesn't commit dumb fouls anymore I don't know what to tell you.

And for the record I'd take Mitch over Noel any day of the week. I just don't think he should be impervious to criticism
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#76 » by cgf » Wed May 19, 2021 3:17 pm

waya wrote:
cgf wrote:
waya wrote:My bad, forgot about the clips of him crossing over scrubs at his local YMCA. You right

You're right. It's not like everyone was saying that Mitch's biggest problem coming in was his foul rate and he has learned to cut that from 5.7 fouls per 36 as a rookie coming off the bench, to 3.6 fouls per 36 as a starter this season, while remaining an elite rim-protector. That all doesn't matter, what matters is that his shooting is comparable to Noel's... :lol:


Safe to say foul rate falls into the "more or less" of my statement :lol: it's an improvement but if you're willing to anoint him because he doesn't commit dumb fouls anymore I don't know what to tell you.

And for the record I'd take Mitch over Noel any day of the week. I just don't think he should be impervious to criticism

When his fouls were the 1 thing keeping him from being a defensive anchor that could be relied upon, yeah...getting them down is a huge change. It turned him from an energy big you had to bring off the bench, to a guy you can rely upon to anchor your defense...which is why only Julius & RJ were getting more minutes than him at the time he went down.

What more do you expect? The kid to turn into Jokic or AD? :lol:
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#77 » by waya » Wed May 19, 2021 3:35 pm

cgf wrote:
waya wrote:
cgf wrote:You're right. It's not like everyone was saying that Mitch's biggest problem coming in was his foul rate and he has learned to cut that from 5.7 fouls per 36 as a rookie coming off the bench, to 3.6 fouls per 36 as a starter this season, while remaining an elite rim-protector. That all doesn't matter, what matters is that his shooting is comparable to Noel's... :lol:


Safe to say foul rate falls into the "more or less" of my statement :lol: it's an improvement but if you're willing to anoint him because he doesn't commit dumb fouls anymore I don't know what to tell you.

And for the record I'd take Mitch over Noel any day of the week. I just don't think he should be impervious to criticism

When his fouls were the 1 thing keeping him from being a defensive anchor that could be relied upon, yeah...getting them down is a huge change. It turned him from an energy big you had to bring off the bench, to a guy you can rely upon to anchor your defense...which is why only Julius & RJ were getting more minutes than him at the time he went down.

What more do you expect? The kid to turn into Jokic or AD? :lol:


I agree that he has taken strides toward being a defensive anchor and I'm excited about that.

And no I don't expect him to turn into Jokic or AD, but some type of offensive variance outside of offensive rebounding and pressuring the rim would be nice, even if it's just free throw percentage. Especially when he's treated like Jokic or AD around here by a few :-?
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#78 » by thebuzzardman » Wed May 19, 2021 3:44 pm

Hopefully Elfrid-19 gets 2nd team all defensive team, since him starting is so integral to the Knicks success!
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#79 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu May 20, 2021 4:55 pm

robillionaire wrote:
cgf wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
IMO it would be a criminal offense if Nerlens isn’t on there especially seeing has how he was #2 in block percentage top 15 in steal percentage #2 in defensive rating #3 in defensive win shares (despite limited minutes) #3 in blocks and blocks per game (despite limited minutes) led the NBA in blocks per 36 minutes and also led the entire NBA in defensive BPM among qualified players (see link below). His defensive BPM was 3.5 and Mitch has a respectable 1.1 defensive BPM. Nerlens is on a different level. Also Nerlens was the only player in the NBA to average 2 blocks and 1 steal this season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::dbpm

Also, his defense was great last year on OKC, this isn’t just Thibs system but he’s perfect for it

What a great job of illustrating how misleading numbers can be...especially ones that are as faulty as defensive stats in the NBA.


numbers don’t matter when they don’t suit the agenda, 10-4


Why are we doing this. We have 2 solid defensive Cs and the backup stepped up while the starter was hurt. I think your point illustrates that if we have an option to improve our team dramatically, that we've shown that we could get by without Mitch but I wouldn't use it to say that Mitch is responsible for the record entirely. I mean RJ shot horrible the first half, we were experimenting with playing Frznk and Knox at the time. Not to mention the chemistry just came together as the season went on. It happens sometimes. Also Mitch himself was being somewhat limited trying to be attentive to his foul totals, testing new skills. If you have a chance to get Mitch on the court you do it.

But, but but again, the reason why your point is important is this. The reason why Noel's emergence is so important isn't that it proves Mitch isn't as good as we all thought. But when you want something you gotta give up something. And knowing you have Noel and Taj as that ace in your hand might allow you to feel better about having to part with him IF a star becomes available at another position perhaps. Or maybe it means Noel might be desirable in a sign and trade but point is.....we have two starting caliber defensive Cs. That's should be considered a good problem to have that opens up some possibilities. Doesn't mean you have to put either on the trade block but if something presents itself you'll listen.
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Re: The Return of Mitchell Robinson 

Post#80 » by cgf » Thu May 20, 2021 5:03 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
cgf wrote:What a great job of illustrating how misleading numbers can be...especially ones that are as faulty as defensive stats in the NBA.


numbers don’t matter when they don’t suit the agenda, 10-4


Why are we doing this. We have 2 solid defensive Cs and the backup stepped up while the starter was hurt. I think your point illustrates that if we have an option to improve our team dramatically, that we've shown that we could get by without Mitch but I wouldn't use it to say that Mitch is responsible for the record entirely. I mean RJ shot horrible the first half, we were experimenting with playing Frznk and Knox at the time. Not to mention the chemistry just came together as the season went on. It happens sometimes. Also Mitch himself was being somewhat limited trying to be attentive to his foul totals, testing new skills. If you have a chance to get Mitch on the court you do it.

But, but but again, the reason why your point is important is this. The reason why Noel's emergence is so important isn't that it proves Mitch isn't as good as we all thought. But when you want something you gotta give up something. And knowing you have Noel and Taj as that ace in your hand might allow you to feel better about having to part with him IF a star becomes available at another position perhaps. Or maybe it means Noel might be desirable in a sign and trade but point is.....we have two starting caliber defensive Cs. That's should be considered a good problem to have that opens up some possibilities. Doesn't mean you have to put either on the trade block but if something presents itself you'll listen.

Focusing on our record before we added Rose, allows buddy to minimize Mitch's impact, despite Mitch having clearly been the better of the two...on both ends...when he was healthy. Same way he quotes Thibs about how Nerlens has stepped up, but ignores what Thibs had to say about Mitch anchoring us when he was still healthy.

Robillionaire in this thread is demonstrating how facts can be used in a misleading way to support obviously wrong conclusions.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.

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