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Knicks point guard options in offseason

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What the Knicks should do this summer?

sign Lonzo on a multi-year deal
60
41%
trade our youth an picks for Lillard or other superstar PG
33
22%
sign Lowry/Conley probably on 1+1 contract (player option)
47
32%
sign Schroder (3/45
7
5%
 
Total votes: 147

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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#521 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:03 am

Zenzibar wrote:What are you guys hearing on the Kendrick Nunn front? An Payton/Reggie Bullock replacement?

According to SNY’s Ian Begley, the Knicks are keeping a close eye on Nunn ahead of free agency. The second-year player enjoyed a breakout rookie campaign last season as he played a key part in Miami’s run to the finals, averaging 15.3 points and 3.3 assists per night. In 2020/21, his numbers took a slight dip, but Nunn still put up 14.6 points while improving his clip from downtown to 38%.



I quoted the article earlier. Who knows? He's definitely a possibility, whatever that means. :lol:

He's a big improvement over Payton.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#522 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Jun 6, 2021 6:19 am

If Vildoza is as good as Pablo was in his prime before he joined the Knicks then he might be the next starting PG instead of an expensive journeyman like Lonzo or Schroder. I think he will probably end up as one of the best deals this franchise has made in a long time.

I trust Pablo's opinion and he thinks Luca is going to kill it.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#523 » by Adelheid » Sun Jun 6, 2021 6:59 am

A big question in my mind is whether they will allow the new starting pg to run the offense.

Nothing will change if Ju is still the one running it and if he is in beyblade mode.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#524 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Jun 6, 2021 7:32 am

Adelheid wrote:A big question in my mind is whether they will allow the new starting pg to run the offense.

Nothing will change if Ju is still the one running it and if he is in beyblade mode.


They need to let someone else set up the offense.

Randle's high usage inflated his assists stats in particular. He needs to spend the off-season working on his off the ball movement patterns.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#525 » by Angryfatboy » Sun Jun 6, 2021 8:40 am

KnicksGadfly wrote:By the way, who is the pg you guys DON’T want?

For me, it’s Shroeder.


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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#526 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:15 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
louisorr wrote:Then again even if he's just a better Frank it still improves the team. Bottom line is the most valuable franchise in sports shouldn't be operating at the cap floor (unless it's strategic), so if they want to sign Ball, while I wouldn't be thrilled, I wouldn't hate it.

Filling the roster with bang average players makes us worse.

The Knicks need to prioritize quality over quantity in the immediate future, and fill out the roster later.

imo


Just sign Frank for 3/$12 million vs. Lonzo for 4/$26 million at that point. Again this team isn't winning anything any time soon. But the FO likely doesn't think that way, they'll eat the CAA peyote and think we're close to a 2 seed when we're more like a 8th seed.

Those are per year numbers or overall contract? Because either I think Frank is high at 12M per year or Lonzo is critically low at 26/4
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#527 » by nedleeds » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:12 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Filling the roster with bang average players makes us worse.

The Knicks need to prioritize quality over quantity in the immediate future, and fill out the roster later.

imo


Just sign Frank for 3/$12 million vs. Lonzo for 4/$26 million at that point. Again this team isn't winning anything any time soon. But the FO likely doesn't think that way, they'll eat the CAA peyote and think we're close to a 2 seed when we're more like a 8th seed.

Those are per year numbers or overall contract? Because either I think Frank is high at 12M per year or Lonzo is critically low at 26/4


Sorry, Frank for $4 a year for 3 and Lonzo $26 or whatever insane number he wants for 4.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#528 » by ohboy109 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:18 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
xsaberx wrote:We have the talent level of a lottery team. We overachieved and played as well as possible given our talent.

The upside is that we may look enticing for free agents.

The downside is that there are really no game changing free agents - no elite - and moreover no duo of elite free agents that want to play together - which is what we really need to get into contention.

The next downside is that even though we have huge cap room, in order to get great players we will need to make trades which depletes our team and assets.

The next next downside is that we have to be incredibly lucky/prophetic to add a major piece in the draft (whereas if we had played to our talent we would have a very high pick and better likelihood of getting a real piece).

The final downside is that we will now be expected to be this good or better going forward which may be hard to continue next year - so we've kindof killed off building thought the draft unless something like RJ and Randle are both injured next year and our record doesn't reflect our potential.

The plan? Sign Randle now to get him at a good price. Draft incredibly, add good pieces only at a good price - but stay flexible for 2022. And we must stay good next year - we must keep overachieving so that some duo of elites thinks if they just came to this already good team in NY, that they would have a good chance to win a chip.

As far as point guards - Lonzo is not good enough to warrant the money he will cost. Lillard will only work if he absolutely demands a trade and the offers are not very good - otherwise we will have no team around him and end up like the Knicks always do - with an aging star without the team around him needed to get the win in the next few years. Schroeder or Conely or Lowery on a 1 year would be fine and keep us treadmilling until next year.


well put all around.

i think the randle decision is the biggest of all. i suspect this FO will be patient in that i don't think they will make a big trade until it is icing on the cake. on one hand, extending randle now lets you save big money on his long-term contract. if he's going to stay an all-nba level player, his extension this year is a huge discount. if someone were available to sign next to him as a max this offseason, you could then empty the war chest in trade. randle + max star signing + trade for star can make you a contender. especially if you are able to keep RJ and mitch in the process.

otherwise, it might make more sense to stay patient and have another season like this one where everyone hopefully gets a little better and you can strike hard in 2022 offseason. i think that's the deadline for building a contender in either case, and i'm fine with a plan like that. you hope for the kids to make leaps. given the season they just had, i think the environment is conducive to meaningful progress for guys like RJ, obi, and quick. (i will add that the environment is especially conducive to their development because of what they experienced -- winning and competing as opposed to being dysfunctional cannon fodder all year.)


You don't bring Randle back no stars are coming to play with him trade him asap they will be better continue to develop and draft for now
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#529 » by Richard4444 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:36 pm

Wharton Alum 08 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
He's hurt every 5 days. None of these twats changes ****. Just start IQ.


He played 56 out of 72 games in a COVID season where everyone was hurt. Plus, he'll have Rose backing him up at PG.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brogdma01.html

Forget about Thibs starting IQ. That'll never happen.


Man it seems like it’s become a forgone conclusion on here Rose will be back but I doubt if a big minute PG is signed he walks. He was literally the second best player when he was traded and the best in the playoffs. You think he wants to play 15-20 minutes a game


Both will play together for a time. One of them will play as SG.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#530 » by nedleeds » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:14 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Wharton Alum 08 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
He played 56 out of 72 games in a COVID season where everyone was hurt. Plus, he'll have Rose backing him up at PG.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brogdma01.html

Forget about Thibs starting IQ. That'll never happen.


Man it seems like it’s become a forgone conclusion on here Rose will be back but I doubt if a big minute PG is signed he walks. He was literally the second best player when he was traded and the best in the playoffs. You think he wants to play 15-20 minutes a game


Both will play together for a time. One of them will play as SG.

Chris Paul has to really not want to win to come steal Dolans money. Booker is 3x the player that any Knick is, and the rest of the roster is great defender, shooter, roleplayers.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#531 » by Dunk93 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 6:17 pm

What do you guys think are the knicks expectations with vildoza from a minutes perspective? Do you think they think he can be the answer as our starting pg?
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#532 » by robillionaire » Sun Jun 6, 2021 6:20 pm

Dunk93 wrote:What do you guys think are the knicks expectations with vildoza from a minutes perspective? Do you think they think he can be the answer as our starting pg?


None, and I’d be surprised if he is even on the team next season as opposed to being a throw-in in a trade this summer
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#533 » by Richard4444 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 7:42 pm

Dunk93 wrote:What do you guys think are the knicks expectations with vildoza from a minutes perspective? Do you think they think he can be the answer as our starting pg?


I think it's not even a lock to be a rotation player at the beginning of the season. He is not ready to be a starter and the bench must be crowded. He doesn't know NBA, he is only 25 years and he was not an all-star in Europe (he got #59 in magazine Top 100 in Europe ranking one year ago)

I expect we will invest our cap space in Payton and Bullock replacements in the starter team. We probably will have tons of good options for the backcourt bench (IQ, Rose, Bullock and some rookie probably).
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#534 » by Juco24 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 7:57 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:If Vildoza is as good as Pablo was in his prime before he joined the Knicks then he might be the next starting PG instead of an expensive journeyman like Lonzo or Schroder. I think he will probably end up as one of the best deals this franchise has made in a long time.

I trust Pablo's opinion and he thinks Luca is going to kill it.


:nod: :clap:
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#535 » by N8isScofield » Sun Jun 6, 2021 8:27 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Adelheid wrote:A big question in my mind is whether they will allow the new starting pg to run the offense.

Nothing will change if Ju is still the one running it and if he is in beyblade mode.


They need to let someone else set up the offense.

Randle's high usage inflated his assists stats in particular. He needs to spend the off-season working on his off the ball movement patterns.

This. He needs to actually develop some instead of this glacial shoulder dip and Bruh Man coming through the window thing he does to create space now.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#536 » by WargamesX » Sun Jun 6, 2021 8:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:What are you guys hearing on the Kendrick Nunn front? An Payton/Reggie Bullock replacement?

According to SNY’s Ian Begley, the Knicks are keeping a close eye on Nunn ahead of free agency. The second-year player enjoyed a breakout rookie campaign last season as he played a key part in Miami’s run to the finals, averaging 15.3 points and 3.3 assists per night. In 2020/21, his numbers took a slight dip, but Nunn still put up 14.6 points while improving his clip from downtown to 38%.



I quoted the article earlier. Who knows? He's definitely a possibility, whatever that means. :lol:

He's a big improvement over Payton.


I like it. They need a guard who can play on and off the ball as a shooter and decent defender.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#537 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:00 pm

WargamesX wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:What are you guys hearing on the Kendrick Nunn front? An Payton/Reggie Bullock replacement?

According to SNY’s Ian Begley, the Knicks are keeping a close eye on Nunn ahead of free agency. The second-year player enjoyed a breakout rookie campaign last season as he played a key part in Miami’s run to the finals, averaging 15.3 points and 3.3 assists per night. In 2020/21, his numbers took a slight dip, but Nunn still put up 14.6 points while improving his clip from downtown to 38%.



I quoted the article earlier. Who knows? He's definitely a possibility, whatever that means. :lol:

He's a big improvement over Payton.


I like it. They need a guard who can play on and off the ball as a shooter and decent defender.


Is he a good defender? I have no idea.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#538 » by WargamesX » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:19 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
I quoted the article earlier. Who knows? He's definitely a possibility, whatever that means. :lol:

He's a big improvement over Payton.


I like it. They need a guard who can play on and off the ball as a shooter and decent defender.


Is he a good defender? I have no idea.


He’s decent, not elite but also not someone who would get lit up unless he has a star level guard in front of him. He is decent playing the lanes and man on man. His rookie year his IQ was bad but he improved. He wouldn’t stop Trae for example, but he would make him work on both ends. He has a 6’7 wing span which is great for his size. Thibs loves wingspan for his PG’s. Payton, IQ, and Rose were all 6’8
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#539 » by nykballa2k4 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:09 pm

ohboy109 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
xsaberx wrote:We have the talent level of a lottery team. We overachieved and played as well as possible given our talent.

The upside is that we may look enticing for free agents.

The downside is that there are really no game changing free agents - no elite - and moreover no duo of elite free agents that want to play together - which is what we really need to get into contention.

The next downside is that even though we have huge cap room, in order to get great players we will need to make trades which depletes our team and assets.

The next next downside is that we have to be incredibly lucky/prophetic to add a major piece in the draft (whereas if we had played to our talent we would have a very high pick and better likelihood of getting a real piece).

The final downside is that we will now be expected to be this good or better going forward which may be hard to continue next year - so we've kindof killed off building thought the draft unless something like RJ and Randle are both injured next year and our record doesn't reflect our potential.

The plan? Sign Randle now to get him at a good price. Draft incredibly, add good pieces only at a good price - but stay flexible for 2022. And we must stay good next year - we must keep overachieving so that some duo of elites thinks if they just came to this already good team in NY, that they would have a good chance to win a chip.

As far as point guards - Lonzo is not good enough to warrant the money he will cost. Lillard will only work if he absolutely demands a trade and the offers are not very good - otherwise we will have no team around him and end up like the Knicks always do - with an aging star without the team around him needed to get the win in the next few years. Schroeder or Conely or Lowery on a 1 year would be fine and keep us treadmilling until next year.


well put all around.

i think the randle decision is the biggest of all. i suspect this FO will be patient in that i don't think they will make a big trade until it is icing on the cake. on one hand, extending randle now lets you save big money on his long-term contract. if he's going to stay an all-nba level player, his extension this year is a huge discount. if someone were available to sign next to him as a max this offseason, you could then empty the war chest in trade. randle + max star signing + trade for star can make you a contender. especially if you are able to keep RJ and mitch in the process.

otherwise, it might make more sense to stay patient and have another season like this one where everyone hopefully gets a little better and you can strike hard in 2022 offseason. i think that's the deadline for building a contender in either case, and i'm fine with a plan like that. you hope for the kids to make leaps. given the season they just had, i think the environment is conducive to meaningful progress for guys like RJ, obi, and quick. (i will add that the environment is especially conducive to their development because of what they experienced -- winning and competing as opposed to being dysfunctional cannon fodder all year.)


You don't bring Randle back no stars are coming to play with him trade him asap they will be better continue to develop and draft for now


As an example if of out big assets we retained only Randle and Mitch, came back with Westbrook, McCullum and retained Knox, Frank, Bullock, Noel, IQ, Taj, Rose that would be a solid squad.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Knox/Taj
Bullock/Frankie
CJ/IQ
Westbrook/Rose/NewLuca

Think we would be up there with anyone.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#540 » by N8isScofield » Mon Jun 7, 2021 12:05 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
ohboy109 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
well put all around.

i think the randle decision is the biggest of all. i suspect this FO will be patient in that i don't think they will make a big trade until it is icing on the cake. on one hand, extending randle now lets you save big money on his long-term contract. if he's going to stay an all-nba level player, his extension this year is a huge discount. if someone were available to sign next to him as a max this offseason, you could then empty the war chest in trade. randle + max star signing + trade for star can make you a contender. especially if you are able to keep RJ and mitch in the process.

otherwise, it might make more sense to stay patient and have another season like this one where everyone hopefully gets a little better and you can strike hard in 2022 offseason. i think that's the deadline for building a contender in either case, and i'm fine with a plan like that. you hope for the kids to make leaps. given the season they just had, i think the environment is conducive to meaningful progress for guys like RJ, obi, and quick. (i will add that the environment is especially conducive to their development because of what they experienced -- winning and competing as opposed to being dysfunctional cannon fodder all year.)


You don't bring Randle back no stars are coming to play with him trade him asap they will be better continue to develop and draft for now


As an example if of out big assets we retained only Randle and Mitch, came back with Westbrook, McCullum and retained Knox, Frank, Bullock, Noel, IQ, Taj, Rose that would be a solid squad.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Knox/Taj
Bullock/Frankie
CJ/IQ
Westbrook/Rose/NewLuca

Think we would be up there with anyone.

That team isn't even guaranteed to get out of the first round. Anyone who built that roster should be fired and then stripped of their citizenship.

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