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Knicks point guard options in offseason

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What the Knicks should do this summer?

sign Lonzo on a multi-year deal
60
41%
trade our youth an picks for Lillard or other superstar PG
33
22%
sign Lowry/Conley probably on 1+1 contract (player option)
47
32%
sign Schroder (3/45
7
5%
 
Total votes: 147

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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#541 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 12:22 am

N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
ohboy109 wrote:
You don't bring Randle back no stars are coming to play with him trade him asap they will be better continue to develop and draft for now


As an example if of out big assets we retained only Randle and Mitch, came back with Westbrook, McCullum and retained Knox, Frank, Bullock, Noel, IQ, Taj, Rose that would be a solid squad.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Knox/Taj
Bullock/Frankie
CJ/IQ
Westbrook/Rose/NewLuca

Think we would be up there with anyone.

That team isn't even guaranteed to get out of the first round. Anyone who built that roster should be fired and then stripped of their citizenship.

If you mean in the literal sense, sure no team is guaranteed. If Greek breaks his knee, that team in in the lotto. But that team if constructed in the next 2 years would easily make 2nd round and contend for beyond. Nets and probably by then Celtics would be the only teams better assuming they add a piece to their two young guns.

You add an allstar with cap space to our current group of guys, we easily move past the Hawks IF we are marginally healthy. This year we were not. So if we get an allstar ball handler who can make the game easier for Julius, so all he has to do is finish on some of this plays, we are in the 2nd round. Then idc who the next guy is, but we add an actual top 7 guy by moving our war-chest and we are contending for a championship.

Newsflash, the Jazz are a top contender in the playoffs now. They haev a DPOY guy in Gobert, allstar 2 guard, and savy pg in Conley. Good to great role players around them, well coached. That can be us PLUS
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#542 » by N8isScofield » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:56 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
As an example if of out big assets we retained only Randle and Mitch, came back with Westbrook, McCullum and retained Knox, Frank, Bullock, Noel, IQ, Taj, Rose that would be a solid squad.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Knox/Taj
Bullock/Frankie
CJ/IQ
Westbrook/Rose/NewLuca

Think we would be up there with anyone.

That team isn't even guaranteed to get out of the first round. Anyone who built that roster should be fired and then stripped of their citizenship.

If you mean in the literal sense, sure no team is guaranteed. If Greek breaks his knee, that team in in the lotto. But that team if constructed in the next 2 years would easily make 2nd round and contend for beyond. Nets and probably by then Celtics would be the only teams better assuming they add a piece to their two young guns.

You add an allstar with cap space to our current group of guys, we easily move past the Hawks IF we are marginally healthy. This year we were not. So if we get an allstar ball handler who can make the game easier for Julius, so all he has to do is finish on some of this plays, we are in the 2nd round. Then idc who the next guy is, but we add an actual top 7 guy by moving our war-chest and we are contending for a championship.

Newsflash, the Jazz are a top contender in the playoffs now. They haev a DPOY guy in Gobert, allstar 2 guard, and savy pg in Conley. Good to great role players around them, well coached. That can be us PLUS

In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#543 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:32 am

N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:That team isn't even guaranteed to get out of the first round. Anyone who built that roster should be fired and then stripped of their citizenship.

If you mean in the literal sense, sure no team is guaranteed. If Greek breaks his knee, that team in in the lotto. But that team if constructed in the next 2 years would easily make 2nd round and contend for beyond. Nets and probably by then Celtics would be the only teams better assuming they add a piece to their two young guns.

You add an allstar with cap space to our current group of guys, we easily move past the Hawks IF we are marginally healthy. This year we were not. So if we get an allstar ball handler who can make the game easier for Julius, so all he has to do is finish on some of this plays, we are in the 2nd round. Then idc who the next guy is, but we add an actual top 7 guy by moving our war-chest and we are contending for a championship.

Newsflash, the Jazz are a top contender in the playoffs now. They haev a DPOY guy in Gobert, allstar 2 guard, and savy pg in Conley. Good to great role players around them, well coached. That can be us PLUS

In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.


The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#544 » by WargamesX » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:49 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:If you mean in the literal sense, sure no team is guaranteed. If Greek breaks his knee, that team in in the lotto. But that team if constructed in the next 2 years would easily make 2nd round and contend for beyond. Nets and probably by then Celtics would be the only teams better assuming they add a piece to their two young guns.

You add an allstar with cap space to our current group of guys, we easily move past the Hawks IF we are marginally healthy. This year we were not. So if we get an allstar ball handler who can make the game easier for Julius, so all he has to do is finish on some of this plays, we are in the 2nd round. Then idc who the next guy is, but we add an actual top 7 guy by moving our war-chest and we are contending for a championship.

Newsflash, the Jazz are a top contender in the playoffs now. They haev a DPOY guy in Gobert, allstar 2 guard, and savy pg in Conley. Good to great role players around them, well coached. That can be us PLUS

In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.


The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.


Rome wasn’t built in a day and luckily the Knicks still have materials to improve. The Hawks series might have been a blessing because it gave us a real picture of the team. We need a better PG who can be a point of attack and playoff ball, we need a more dominant scorer, we need bigger wings to be the 3&D. We need outside shooting. Randle can’t be the only center of the offense, RJ should probably get more minutes with the bench, Thibs needs an assistant to help him on offense. Rose should be brought back, Bullock shouldn’t.

It was embarrassing how we lost but now we got a list of ways to improve. They can go and get what we need. We have cap space and draft picks. Awe also have a deadline until next offseason to do it because that’s when the cap space will likely be lost.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#545 » by Adelheid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:58 am

The FO and every shadow voice in the organization just has to understand the importance of a good lead guard

It can jumpstart the turnaround of the franchise
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Re: Knicks point gurad options in offseason 

Post#546 » by blanko » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:32 am

cgf wrote:Gimme Lonzo, if we can sign him to a contract around what we gave Julius to leave NOLA & don't commit any other future money this summer, we'll have plenty of wiggle room to open a max slot next offseason if Lavine makes it to FA. If he doesn't, then we've still got all of our futures & a max cap slot with which to trade for that third star to help Julius & RJ start really making some noise.

I get that Lonzo isn't the dynamic scorer some folks want, but he fits this team really well and could both bolster us for next season by actually giving us what folks wish Frank did, while also being a great fit next to a big 3 if we do get lucky next summer. Big, smart, a legit 3baller, he's a good defender with the size & versatility Thibs seems to want from his starter...and with Julius, RJ & hopefully a third creator in the lineup moving forward, we wouldn't need him to provide penetration. Plus he's in the core's age range & still has room to grow with them.

It's not the sexy move, but I think he's the best fit & signing him sets us up for that sexy move.
Lonzo is a secondary ball hander that is an amazing transition passer. He can't break down defenses in a half court setting. He does hit the 3 now... but then again if you're playing with zion and ingram, youre gonna have some wide open 3s.

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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#547 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:07 pm

WargamesX wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.


The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.


Rome wasn’t built in a day and luckily the Knicks still have materials to improve. The Hawks series might have been a blessing because it gave us a real picture of the team. We need a better PG who can be a point of attack and playoff ball, we need a more dominant scorer, we need bigger wings to be the 3&D. We need outside shooting. Randle can’t be the only center of the offense, RJ should probably get more minutes with the bench, Thibs needs an assistant to help him on offense. Rose should be brought back, Bullock shouldn’t.

It was embarrassing how we lost but now we got a list of ways to improve. They can go and get what we need. We have cap space and draft picks. Awe also have a deadline until next offseason to do it because that’s when the cap space will likely be lost.

I agree we do not need to panic, we can afford to take a patient approach.
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Re: Knicks point gurad options in offseason 

Post#548 » by cgf » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:25 pm

blanko wrote:
cgf wrote:Gimme Lonzo, if we can sign him to a contract around what we gave Julius to leave NOLA & don't commit any other future money this summer, we'll have plenty of wiggle room to open a max slot next offseason if Lavine makes it to FA. If he doesn't, then we've still got all of our futures & a max cap slot with which to trade for that third star to help Julius & RJ start really making some noise.

I get that Lonzo isn't the dynamic scorer some folks want, but he fits this team really well and could both bolster us for next season by actually giving us what folks wish Frank did, while also being a great fit next to a big 3 if we do get lucky next summer. Big, smart, a legit 3baller, he's a good defender with the size & versatility Thibs seems to want from his starter...and with Julius, RJ & hopefully a third creator in the lineup moving forward, we wouldn't need him to provide penetration. Plus he's in the core's age range & still has room to grow with them.

It's not the sexy move, but I think he's the best fit & signing him sets us up for that sexy move.
Lonzo is a secondary ball hander that is an amazing transition passer. He can't break down defenses in a half court setting. He does hit the 3 now... but then again if you're playing with zion and ingram, youre gonna have some wide open 3s.

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He's also a good defender with some actual switchability, rather than just theoretical switchability. So like I was saying, he would help a lot more than Elf next season, and make for a great glue guy when we bring in that 3rd star to join Julius & a year-4-RJ next summer :wink:
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#549 » by N8isScofield » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:55 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:If you mean in the literal sense, sure no team is guaranteed. If Greek breaks his knee, that team in in the lotto. But that team if constructed in the next 2 years would easily make 2nd round and contend for beyond. Nets and probably by then Celtics would be the only teams better assuming they add a piece to their two young guns.

You add an allstar with cap space to our current group of guys, we easily move past the Hawks IF we are marginally healthy. This year we were not. So if we get an allstar ball handler who can make the game easier for Julius, so all he has to do is finish on some of this plays, we are in the 2nd round. Then idc who the next guy is, but we add an actual top 7 guy by moving our war-chest and we are contending for a championship.

Newsflash, the Jazz are a top contender in the playoffs now. They haev a DPOY guy in Gobert, allstar 2 guard, and savy pg in Conley. Good to great role players around them, well coached. That can be us PLUS

In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.


The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.

The point was that you made a terrible roster that guts our assets, called it a contender and are now trying to walk it back. Projecting Frank and Knox as contributors on a contending team within 2 years when they cannot get game time now is ridiculous. I never said Mitch wasn't a starter. Which of the contending teams other than Utah has a 5 whose game is a limited as Mitch's? A roster that wouldn't be top 10 in the league is not a contender. You do not give away valuable assets to build the roster that you posted. Anyone who did that should be fired. Either draft well and build that way or trade for actual stars, not freaking CJ McCollum and Westbrook on his last legs, 2 players who are not winners and whose value will only decrease after you trade for them. There's a car salesman somewhere reading your posts hoping to God that you walk into his dealership. :crazy:
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#550 » by BugginOut » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:14 pm

Am I crazy to just want to run it back and just give IQ the keys and see how it works? We aren’t competing anytime soon, and I’d rather keep cap space open and try our luck in the 2022 FA class.

I don’t know why we need to fit Thib’s offense and look for a penetrating point. Shouldn’t we just tailor the offense to our roster? Especially since Quickley is one of the best P&R guards in the whole NBA?!

Re-sign Drose, Start Quickley, draft a PG and run it back. We also have a mystery box in Luca. Just live with the results, if we miss the playoffs so be it,
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#551 » by nykballa2k4 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 8:07 pm

N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:In 2 years, Westbrook will be a 34 year old who relies on athleticism. CJ will likely still be a guy who comes up small in important moments, hence why Dame wwants out. Bullock? LMFAO. Randle just showed you he's not a number one option and Mitch probably isn't a starter on a team that can truly contend. That team is going nowhere even if other teams around us don't improve in the next couple of years. The starting 5 is laughable as a contender. The bench is even worse. Frank and Knox don't make the rotation regularly now and you have them as key pieces on a contender? Completely delusional.


The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.

The point was that you made a terrible roster that guts our assets, called it a contender and are now trying to walk it back. Projecting Frank and Knox as contributors on a contending team within 2 years when they cannot get game time now is ridiculous. I never said Mitch wasn't a starter. Which of the contending teams other than Utah has a 5 whose game is a limited as Mitch's? A roster that wouldn't be top 10 in the league is not a contender. You do not give away valuable assets to build the roster that you posted. Anyone who did that should be fired. Either draft well and build that way or trade for actual stars, not freaking CJ McCollum and Westbrook on his last legs, 2 players who are not winners and whose value will only decrease after you trade for them. There's a car salesman somewhere reading your posts hoping to God that you walk into his dealership. :crazy:


In two years that ensemble I put together is fairly conservative in terms of attainability and it looks VERY competitive. We don't know what other teams will do, but that team has the check boxes to be a contender. Not a favorite/superteam, but a contender for sure.

To answer your question about contending teams and centers, who are contenders? Would the Lakers have been a contender if AD was healthy? They were starting Drummond who is limited. CLippers havev Zubac who is quite unimpressive, Nets are the favorites to win it all and before the trade dealine they had Claxton as their top dog with DeAndre Jordan backing up. Griffin is starting presently, but he is limited defensively.

Mitch is about par for the course for a starting center in the league. I would rather have him than Capella, for example.
What little I was able to see of Knox and Frank on the court this season, I liked. Frank showed an ounce of aggression, reliability from 3-point, and his usual great defense. Knox entered the league as a 20 point scorer. This season I saw him hustle on defense, grab contested rebounds. Thibs likes to keep a tight rotation so it did not go Knox's way. If you ask me what I think is likely rather than what I want, I think we are keeping the Kentucky guys within reason, so Knox is not going to be dealt. I don't see any one here with loyalty to Frank, so I can see another team scooping him up with a MLE, portion thereof.

You keep claiming that I should be fired for my make-believe trades, but I don't think you have a realistic approach and I question how you evaluate personnel.
Do you think Schroder at a max contract makes us a better team? What is your answer for making this team better while maintaining flexibility?
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#552 » by BKlutch » Tue Jun 8, 2021 1:19 am

N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
ohboy109 wrote:
You don't bring Randle back no stars are coming to play with him trade him asap they will be better continue to develop and draft for now


As an example ...


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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#553 » by N8isScofield » Tue Jun 8, 2021 1:32 am

nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
The specifics are not the point. The general idea of it is to get a player who can plausibly make an allstar game for cap space and our two picks and then to cash out as soon as a top 7 player becomes available. The players we retain are role players. I am not going to waste either of our time in debating the 22 year old guys who you have chosen to mark as lost cause. Knox will be on the roster next year and the Knicks who see Frank every day will make a choice on him.

Julius was great in the regular season, darkhorse MVP bid, top 15 player in the league for sure. In the playoffs did he flame out? was he tired? Nerves? Poor support? Combination?

Just like half the teams if we would have been healthy the series would have been different. Mitch is a pretty obvious starter in the league, so I am going to just assume you are having a rough time with dealing with the recent loss.

The point was that you made a terrible roster that guts our assets, called it a contender and are now trying to walk it back. Projecting Frank and Knox as contributors on a contending team within 2 years when they cannot get game time now is ridiculous. I never said Mitch wasn't a starter. Which of the contending teams other than Utah has a 5 whose game is a limited as Mitch's? A roster that wouldn't be top 10 in the league is not a contender. You do not give away valuable assets to build the roster that you posted. Anyone who did that should be fired. Either draft well and build that way or trade for actual stars, not freaking CJ McCollum and Westbrook on his last legs, 2 players who are not winners and whose value will only decrease after you trade for them. There's a car salesman somewhere reading your posts hoping to God that you walk into his dealership. :crazy:


In two years that ensemble I put together is fairly conservative in terms of attainability and it looks VERY competitive. We don't know what other teams will do, but that team has the check boxes to be a contender. Not a favorite/superteam, but a contender for sure.

To answer your question about contending teams and centers, who are contenders? Would the Lakers have been a contender if AD was healthy? They were starting Drummond who is limited. CLippers havev Zubac who is quite unimpressive, Nets are the favorites to win it all and before the trade dealine they had Claxton as their top dog with DeAndre Jordan backing up. Griffin is starting presently, but he is limited defensively.

Mitch is about par for the course for a starting center in the league. I would rather have him than Capella, for example.
What little I was able to see of Knox and Frank on the court this season, I liked. Frank showed an ounce of aggression, reliability from 3-point, and his usual great defense. Knox entered the league as a 20 point scorer. This season I saw him hustle on defense, grab contested rebounds. Thibs likes to keep a tight rotation so it did not go Knox's way. If you ask me what I think is likely rather than what I want, I think we are keeping the Kentucky guys within reason, so Knox is not going to be dealt. I don't see any one here with loyalty to Frank, so I can see another team scooping him up with a MLE, portion thereof.

You keep claiming that I should be fired for my make-believe trades, but I don't think you have a realistic approach and I question how you evaluate personnel.
Do you think Schroder at a max contract makes us a better team? What is your answer for making this team better while maintaining flexibility?

No it does not. CJ and Westbrook have failed to be true contenders with Dame, KD, Harden and Beal next to them. You're telling me that declining versions of them are going to succeed or come close to it with Randle? You built a treadmill roster that will lose in the first or second round while giving away most of our young assets. If I'm giving away young assets then I want an actual STAR, not CJ, not the ghost of Russ, a STAR. If that STAR isn't available then I'm not capping myself out and ruining my flexibility for declining versions of players who aren't winners. That is what your plan there does. Are you watching Brooklyn mangle Milwaukee right now? We gut the assets so that can be us? No thank you. If we can't use them on a franchise altering player then we need to continue to develop our own draft picks and use our cap space to acquire more picks. That is the total opposite of what you proposed and that is how you at least give yourself a shot to hit a home run rather than bunting with 2 outs so you can say you made contact. Knox entered the league as a 20 point scorer? What are you even talking about? Do we just get to make things up now? He has shown absolutely nothing. No motor, no basketball IQ, nothing. Quickley came in and earned minutes on day one. This dude can't crack the rotation even when guys are injured. Your approach is definitely realistic. I've seen it play out here a lot en route to awful, losing basketball and years of setbacks.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#554 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:37 am

N8isScofield wrote:
nykballa2k4 wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:The point was that you made a terrible roster that guts our assets, called it a contender and are now trying to walk it back. Projecting Frank and Knox as contributors on a contending team within 2 years when they cannot get game time now is ridiculous. I never said Mitch wasn't a starter. Which of the contending teams other than Utah has a 5 whose game is a limited as Mitch's? A roster that wouldn't be top 10 in the league is not a contender. You do not give away valuable assets to build the roster that you posted. Anyone who did that should be fired. Either draft well and build that way or trade for actual stars, not freaking CJ McCollum and Westbrook on his last legs, 2 players who are not winners and whose value will only decrease after you trade for them. There's a car salesman somewhere reading your posts hoping to God that you walk into his dealership. :crazy:


In two years that ensemble I put together is fairly conservative in terms of attainability and it looks VERY competitive. We don't know what other teams will do, but that team has the check boxes to be a contender. Not a favorite/superteam, but a contender for sure.

To answer your question about contending teams and centers, who are contenders? Would the Lakers have been a contender if AD was healthy? They were starting Drummond who is limited. CLippers havev Zubac who is quite unimpressive, Nets are the favorites to win it all and before the trade dealine they had Claxton as their top dog with DeAndre Jordan backing up. Griffin is starting presently, but he is limited defensively.

Mitch is about par for the course for a starting center in the league. I would rather have him than Capella, for example.
What little I was able to see of Knox and Frank on the court this season, I liked. Frank showed an ounce of aggression, reliability from 3-point, and his usual great defense. Knox entered the league as a 20 point scorer. This season I saw him hustle on defense, grab contested rebounds. Thibs likes to keep a tight rotation so it did not go Knox's way. If you ask me what I think is likely rather than what I want, I think we are keeping the Kentucky guys within reason, so Knox is not going to be dealt. I don't see any one here with loyalty to Frank, so I can see another team scooping him up with a MLE, portion thereof.

You keep claiming that I should be fired for my make-believe trades, but I don't think you have a realistic approach and I question how you evaluate personnel.
Do you think Schroder at a max contract makes us a better team? What is your answer for making this team better while maintaining flexibility?

No it does not. CJ and Westbrook have failed to be true contenders with Dame, KD, Harden and Beal next to them. You're telling me that declining versions of them are going to succeed or come close to it with Randle? You built a treadmill roster that will lose in the first or second round while giving away most of our young assets. If I'm giving away young assets then I want an actual STAR, not CJ, not the ghost of Russ, a STAR. If that STAR isn't available then I'm not capping myself out and ruining my flexibility for declining versions of players who aren't winners. That is what your plan there does. Are you watching Brooklyn mangle Milwaukee right now? We gut the assets so that can be us? No thank you. If we can't use them on a franchise altering player then we need to continue to develop our own draft picks and use our cap space to acquire more picks. That is the total opposite of what you proposed and that is how you at least give yourself a shot to hit a home run rather than bunting with 2 outs so you can say you made contact. Knox entered the league as a 20 point scorer? What are you even talking about? Do we just get to make things up now? He has shown absolutely nothing. No motor, no basketball IQ, nothing. Quickley came in and earned minutes on day one. This dude can't crack the rotation even when guys are injured. Your approach is definitely realistic. I've seen it play out here a lot en route to awful, losing basketball and years of setbacks.


1) Contender does not mean champion. The Harden-Westbrook team was a contender, but they just didn't win (they also shed several pieces to get to just those two), we can go into other examples, but contender means you are in the top 5 in odds to win a championship.

2) Every good team is a treadmill until it isn't. Mavs were a treadmill, but were contenders, finally broke through that one year. Kings and Blazers of 00's Knicks of 90's, Jazz of 90's were all treadmills that didn't make it over the top.

3) You are comparing the Bucks team to a super-team. Nets have probably the most skewed roster of the season. Yes, I did not build a super-team. That would be awesome to have one of those, but we would need at a minimum one superstar signing here and in lockstep with trading for another. We are not going to afford to sign two outright.

4) I exaggerated on Knox, he came in as a raw scorer, but put averages of 17, 13, 13, 13, 16 through the last 5months of his rookie season. I am not worried about him as a scorer, he is going to be in the league a while, he also aint going anywhere since he is a Kentucky guy. We can revisit this topic next season.

5) Again, my big point is that Randle is an all-star, we need to add on an all-star talent on the cheap. McCollum was the hot name in te news which is why he was my example. If you got a better name that can be had for basically cap room and will not have an albatross contract, i am all ears. Westbrook is a superstar, is a top 7 player. So for right now he fit the bill of "superstar you cash out for." Beal is clearly steps behind him. Lillard is another similar option. If I were picking my personal favorite choice, we would be getting Greek, but he is locked in for half a decade. It is unlikely for any of the kids on rookie deals to get off their home clubs at he first point of extension so rule those stars out.

6) Just for fun tell me the players that in the duration of McCollums contract will be a UFA and have a ghost of a chance at coming to NY. If we chase a CJ, or Middleton, or *insert frustrated playoff loser fanbase punching bag who was supposed to be all star with 3 years left on contract* this summer, who am I losing??
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#555 » by cgf » Tue Jun 8, 2021 1:33 pm

Man, blowing this opportunity on CJ & Russ would be such a Knicks thing to do.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#556 » by Jimmit79 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:23 pm

cgf wrote:Man, blowing this opportunity on CJ & Russ would be such a Knicks thing to do.
And Knicks fans who said no to dame will do backflip and yell Knicks are back lol.

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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#557 » by cgf » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:27 pm

Jimmit79 wrote:
cgf wrote:Man, blowing this opportunity on CJ & Russ would be such a Knicks thing to do.
And Knicks fans who said no to dame will do backflip and yell Knicks are back lol.

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Speak for yourself. I don't want dame unless we sign Kawhi first, and I'd be disappointed by CJ & Russ.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#558 » by Jimmit79 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:36 pm

cgf wrote:
Jimmit79 wrote:
cgf wrote:Man, blowing this opportunity on CJ & Russ would be such a Knicks thing to do.
And Knicks fans who said no to dame will do backflip and yell Knicks are back lol.

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Speak for yourself. I don't want dame unless we sign Kawhi first, and I'd be disappointed by CJ & Russ.
So you just don't want to improve unless instant contender happens lol.

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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#559 » by Fury » Tue Jun 8, 2021 2:43 pm

The Knicks liked Kendrick Nunn before he signed with the Heat, so that makes sense.

CJ McCollum would be an awesome acquisition, but I wouldn't give anything more than our two first rounders this year. He's making a **** of money, and we'd be doing them a favor by helping them clear out room for another star player.

And for those saying that McCollum choked or whatever, just remember that last year he was the one who stepped up in key moments and made big shots.

If you can do:

Kendrick Nunn
CJ McCollum
RJ Barrett
Julius Randle
Mitch Robinson

I say you go for it. That's some solid shooting around Randle, no contracts past 3 year and you get to keep next year's pick to replenish.
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Re: Knicks point guard options in offseason 

Post#560 » by K-DOT » Tue Jun 8, 2021 4:11 pm

Think Mike Conley is kind of flying under the radar here

Probably doesn't want to leave Utah, but do they want to pay him with Mitchell's extension coming up? Depending on how much he wants, that'd put them in the 80-90 mil range between him, Mitchell, and Gobert, plus they're paying 58 million between Bogdanovic, Clarkson, Ingles, Favors, and Royce O'Neale (which kind of shows why I don't want to pay our role players long term money, but that's another argument)

That's a lot of money for a small market team, plus however much they'd pay in tax. I think he's on the same level as Lowry, wouldn't give him more than 3 years given his age, but he'd be a solid option for us.
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