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Knicks Offseason: List of Needs

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Needs for the Knicks

New PG
87
78%
New SG
10
9%
New SF
8
7%
New C
2
2%
Retain all these dudes
4
4%
 
Total votes: 111

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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#361 » by spree2kawhi » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:35 pm

We're destined to become the NY Westbricks.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#362 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:38 pm

Hard pass on Oubre
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#363 » by moocow007 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:00 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:No discussion on whether Oubre would be a good depth piece?

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Oubre is kinda like a JR Smith. He's got a lot of talent, maybe not superstar talent, but still a significant amount of talent. He's also 25 which fits with the core timeline. He pretty much has all the tools. But, as with JR Smith, you have to be able to use him correctly and push him. As Knick fans we've all seen the how good JR can be when he's on but you also have to live with his "issues". I would not be against adding him as part of the significant uptick in talent needed but not as the main get. I think Oubre under Thibs can have a MIP type of year.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#364 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:21 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:No discussion on whether Oubre would be a good depth piece?

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At what cost?

As backup SF?
He's a free agent and they suggest at about 10 million per or so and as the starting SF. He starts for GSW. When Klay comes back they will have a surplus with he, Klay and Wiggins.

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Does he shoot as well as Bullocks or better? I don't recall - he wasn't the best shooter his first few years but got a lot better, right?
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#365 » by Butch718 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:45 pm

spree2kawhi wrote:
F N 11 wrote:I’m getting back in Lonzo train because he promotes ball movement.

And provides little else.


Anyone that claims that he doesn't provides little else might as well be shouting "I don't NBA games outside of the Knicks on the reg."

Lonzo has drastically improved his outside shot and plays solid defense. He can also help facilitate easy baskets in transition. These are all things this team could use.

What he doesn't do well is attacking the basket on a consistent basis. His drive and motor also aren't where you want it to be either. For those reasons alone I can see why fans would be hesitant.

Now whether we should waste cap space on him is a different story. But claiming he doesn't do anything outside or promoting ball movement is just a casual fan's talking point.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#366 » by K-DOT » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:51 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Does he shoot as well as Bullocks or better? I don't recall - he wasn't the best shooter his first few years but got a lot better, right?

Short answer, no. Oubre is more of an all around scorer, but Bullock was always the better shooter

Long answer:

Bullock shot 30% from 3 his first year, 33% his 2nd year

Since his 2nd season, he's shot 40% from 3, with only 1 season being below 37%. Though to note, his first 4 years were a pretty small sample size, with years 1-3 having him take less than 2 threes a game, and year 4 he only took 2.4. Bullock has been pretty inconsistent year to year, but overall, he's been at least a league average shooter basically every year since 2016

Oubre has only hit the 33% mark twice in his career, with his best season being 35% two seasons ago. To be fair, in a Bullock comparison, Bullock didn't really break out until his age 26 season (Oubre is 25 now), but he had shown the ability to be a knock down shooter in limited minutes before that

I wouldn't mind a flier on him depending on what happens with PG for us and what we do in the draft. I've said before, I think our biggest holes (assuming we fix the PG problem and bring back Rose/Bullock) will be backup SF and backup C. So if we don't draft a backup SF, then sure.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#367 » by Dave DaButcher » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:30 pm

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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#368 » by Ph@t Joe » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:11 pm

?

I'm really confused! Spotrac says Mitchell Robinson is owed 1.8 Million, but what is his Cap Hold?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/mitchell-robinson-27002/


2nd Question:

Do we really have $73 Million in CAP SPACE this Summer?

According to this article we do:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

The way I calculated is this:

Julius Randle (19.8)
RJ Barrett (8.7)
Joakim Noah (6.5)
Obi Toppin (5.1)
Im Quickley (2.2)
M. Robinson (1.8)
7 Rosters Spots (3.5) (7 x 500,000)

Trade for More Cap Space

Frank Ntilikina (8.3)
Kevin Knox (5.9)

Non Guaranteed (Also tradeable for More Cap Space)

Luca Vildoza (3.3)
19th Pick (2.7)
21st Pick (2.5)



So the way I calculate it is if we trade Frank Ntilikina & Kevin Knox for Cap Space,

Trade the 19th Pick & 21 Pick to a Cap Space Team (I absolutely would never ever do this :lol: )

And not pick up Luca Vildoza contact option,

Against a 112 Million Cap, I have 47.6 in Guaranteed Salaries which equals

64.4 Million in Cap Space, not 73 Million in Cap Space

So what am I missing? Is it Mitchell Robinson's Cap HOLD?
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#369 » by spree2kawhi » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:13 pm

Butch718 wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
F N 11 wrote:I’m getting back in Lonzo train because he promotes ball movement.

And provides little else.


Anyone that claims that he doesn't provides little else might as well be shouting "I don't NBA games outside of the Knicks on the reg."

Lonzo has drastically improved his outside shot and plays solid defense. He can also help facilitate easy baskets in transition. These are all things this team could use.

What he doesn't do well is attacking the basket on a consistent basis. His drive and motor also aren't where you want it to be either. For those reasons alone I can see why fans would be hesitant.

Now whether we should waste cap space on him is a different story. But claiming he doesn't do anything outside or promoting ball movement is just a casual fan's talking point.


He brings nothing to the table. Literally. That level of shooting, I want to stress that, can be found anywhere today. It's average shooting ability at best. That's not a plus, it's mediocre. Yet it's the calling card of all proponents. What's more, that oh so effective full court pass in transition is nothing special either. Happens once a game, counts for two. What the hell are we talking about? A player very much concerned with image, looks, reputation. But can't finish at the rim, let alone get there to save his ****ing life. Creates nothing, makes nothing happen, just stands in corners. An average player overall and possibly the second worst starting point guard in the NBA atm. So bad he doesn't even start at point guard for his current freaking lottery level team.

Lonzo = trash.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#370 » by prophet_of_rage » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:14 pm

moocow007 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:No discussion on whether Oubre would be a good depth piece?

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Oubre is kinda like a JR Smith. He's got a lot of talent, maybe not superstar talent, but still a significant amount of talent. He's also 25 which fits with the core timeline. He pretty much has all the tools. But, as with JR Smith, you have to be able to use him correctly and push him. As Knick fans we've all seen the how good JR can be when he's on but you also have to live with his "issues". I would not be against adding him as part of the significant uptick in talent needed but not as the main get. I think Oubre under Thibs can have a MIP type of year.
He wouldn't be a main get but a depth piece.

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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#371 » by prophet_of_rage » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:16 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
At what cost?

As backup SF?
He's a free agent and they suggest at about 10 million per or so and as the starting SF. He starts for GSW. When Klay comes back they will have a surplus with he, Klay and Wiggins.

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Does he shoot as well as Bullocks or better? I don't recall - he wasn't the best shooter his first few years but got a lot better, right?
He had a rough start then shot at Bullock level the rest of the year. But he can put the ball on the deck which Bullock can't.

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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#372 » by NYF13 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:01 am

Ph@t Joe wrote:?

I'm really confused! Spotrac says Mitchell Robinson is owed 1.8 Million, but what is his Cap Hold?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/mitchell-robinson-27002/


2nd Question:

Do we really have $73 Million in CAP SPACE this Summer?

According to this article we do:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

The way I calculated is this:

Julius Randle (19.8)
RJ Barrett (8.7)
Joakim Noah (6.5)
Obi Toppin (5.1)
Im Quickley (2.2)
M. Robinson (1.8)
7 Rosters Spots (3.5) (7 x 500,000)

Trade for More Cap Space

Frank Ntilikina (8.3)
Kevin Knox (5.9)

Non Guaranteed (Also tradeable for More Cap Space)

Luca Vildoza (3.3)
19th Pick (2.7)
21st Pick (2.5)



So the way I calculate it is if we trade Frank Ntilikina & Kevin Knox for Cap Space,

Trade the 19th Pick & 21 Pick to a Cap Space Team (I absolutely would never ever do this :lol: )

And not pick up Luca Vildoza contact option,

Against a 112 Million Cap, I have 47.6 in Guaranteed Salaries which equals

64.4 Million in Cap Space, not 73 Million in Cap Space

So what am I missing? Is it Mitchell Robinson's Cap HOLD?


“What am I missing?” You are missing a dick in your mouth.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#373 » by RHODEY » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:07 am

moocow007 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:No discussion on whether Oubre would be a good depth piece?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk


Oubre is kinda like a JR Smith. He's got a lot of talent, maybe not superstar talent, but still a significant amount of talent. He's also 25 which fits with the core timeline. He pretty much has all the tools. But, as with JR Smith, you have to be able to use him correctly and push him. As Knick fans we've all seen the how good JR can be when he's on but you also have to live with his "issues". I would not be against adding him as part of the significant uptick in talent needed but not as the main get. I think Oubre under Thibs can have a MIP type of year.


Atleast JR could shoot...Watched a fair amount of Warrior games...I cant tell you how many curry assisted open jumpers he missed. He's talented sure...and when he played for the Suns he resembled JR. But this last season he wasn't good.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#374 » by Ph@t Joe » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:18 am

NYF13 wrote:
Ph@t Joe wrote:?

I'm really confused! Spotrac says Mitchell Robinson is owed 1.8 Million, but what is his Cap Hold?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/mitchell-robinson-27002/


2nd Question:

Do we really have $73 Million in CAP SPACE this Summer?

According to this article we do:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/261138/2021-NBA-Cap-Space-Projecting-All-30-Teams

The way I calculated is this:

Julius Randle (19.8)
RJ Barrett (8.7)
Joakim Noah (6.5)
Obi Toppin (5.1)
Im Quickley (2.2)
M. Robinson (1.8)
7 Rosters Spots (3.5) (7 x 500,000)

Trade for More Cap Space

Frank Ntilikina (8.3)
Kevin Knox (5.9)

Non Guaranteed (Also tradeable for More Cap Space)

Luca Vildoza (3.3)
19th Pick (2.7)
21st Pick (2.5)



So the way I calculate it is if we trade Frank Ntilikina & Kevin Knox for Cap Space,

Trade the 19th Pick & 21 Pick to a Cap Space Team (I absolutely would never ever do this :lol: )

And not pick up Luca Vildoza contact option,

Against a 112 Million Cap, I have 47.6 in Guaranteed Salaries which equals

64.4 Million in Cap Space, not 73 Million in Cap Space

So what am I missing? Is it Mitchell Robinson's Cap HOLD?


“What am I missing?” You are missing a dick in your mouth.


:nonono:
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#375 » by aggo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:56 am

Oubre seems 1 dimensional. his ASTs numbers in GS ball movement offense would concern me because if we go into next season with Randle as our #1, we need to at minimum surround him with guys that are more than just catch and shoot dudes.

Fournier is the better option because he's got the ability to make plays for his teammates and has been a better shooter his entire career.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#376 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:32 am

aggo wrote:Oubre seems 1 dimensional. his ASTs numbers in GS ball movement offense would concern me because if we go into next season with Randle as our #1, we need to at minimum surround him with guys that are more than just catch and shoot dudes.

Fournier is the better option because he's got the ability to make plays for his teammates and has been a better shooter his entire career.
I assume Fournier would be more expensive.

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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#377 » by aggo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:41 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
aggo wrote:Oubre seems 1 dimensional. his ASTs numbers in GS ball movement offense would concern me because if we go into next season with Randle as our #1, we need to at minimum surround him with guys that are more than just catch and shoot dudes.

Fournier is the better option because he's got the ability to make plays for his teammates and has been a better shooter his entire career.
I assume Fournier would be more expensive.

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fournier is worth his 4 year contract easy way more than Lonzo would be.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#378 » by FreeSpiritNY » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:26 am

WargamesX wrote:Why isn’t new coach an option? A lot of this teams issues are Thibs coaching related.....



You can't be serious. if so just wow. RANDLE HAD THE WORST POST SEASON SERIES IN NBA HISTORY! IN NBA HISTORY. Let that sink in for a second.

We didn't lose because of thibs we lost randle sucked so bad we couldn't recover. The only 3 player that showed up was Rose, Taj & OBI

Any other coach we wouldn't have even made the playoffs.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#379 » by WargamesX » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:24 am

FreeSpiritNY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Why isn’t new coach an option? A lot of this teams issues are Thibs coaching related.....



You can't be serious. if so just wow. RANDLE HAD THE WORST POST SEASON SERIES IN NBA HISTORY! IN NBA HISTORY. Let that sink in for a second.

We didn't lose because of thibs we lost randle sucked so bad we couldn't recover. The only 3 player that showed up was Rose, Taj & OBI

Any other coach we wouldn't have even made the playoffs.


I said what I said 8-)

If you watched the series Thibs made numerous offensive and defensive errors. For example how he went about trying to slow down Trae was bad from jump, from pulling that Frank “final possession” stunt twice in game one, to putting Bullock on Trae defensively that didn’t slow him down and allowed Trae to mostly rest by hiding on Bullock defensively. Watch the series, most defensive possessions Trae is just there standing waiting to get the ball on offense again. Also you’re seeing how Doc uses Thybulle on Trae? We didn’t even try that with Frank. Offensively the roster had issues (small wings, Randle sucking) but I’ve never seen a team not look for mismatches in the playoffs. There was barely any adaption. Even if we were destined to lose, outside of Rose in the starting lineup change that destroyed team chemistry (aka the teams dynamic of Starters Beat up the opposing teams starter to keep the score low and then the bench comes in and racks up points against a weaker opposing bench) Thibs didn’t adjust. For example Randle can’t go right and they kept forcing him right and too the middle, so why not not put RJ with the bench unit and put burkes with the starters to space the floor?

Thibs limits got exposed, if his starters can’t beat up the opposing starters, he had no backup plan. Don’t let COY fool you, they still need to add an offensive coordinator onto his staff. Yes they need a PG who can play off ball and a 3&D wing with enough size that if Trae was guarding him they could just shoot over him, but..... Thibs **** up and there will be coaches out there that can coach defense AND offense.
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Re: Knicks Offseason: List of Needs 

Post#380 » by WargamesX » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:37 am

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If it had been blue pill and orange pill :lol:
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