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How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us?

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#61 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:40 am

NewKnicks wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Careful with that! I was laughed out of here for suggesting the same thing. But it's true. There are 7-8+ players who could turn out to be special. It's not just a top-4 draft.


In a few years, people will be talking about how can we trade so and so for guys from this Draft class.


So true. We'll be seeing threads in two years saying "Trade IQ, a 1st and 2nd rounder for All-Star Jalen Suggs"
We'll see that even if we have all-stars ourselves. This fanbase is very covetous.

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#62 » by rammagen » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:18 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
rammagen wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Randle for GS #14.

Trade our 2 picks in the 20's (and maybe next year's 1st) to get another pick in the 10-15 range.

Roll with: Two players in the lottery in a great draft/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi. That would put all of them in the right age range as well. Add other youngish players with our 60M available (is that the right number? Not sure).

Now that would be a team I could get excited about going into the future. We would get into the conversation as one of the young, exciting teams on the rise for years to come. Who's with me? :D

Sadly, it will never happen.

and it should never happen
first you under value randle
2 how in the heck is golden state going to fit ranle under the cap they need to move salary in a dump that alone means we should be getting more


A man can dream..

You would rather roll with the same old vets next year? GS could make it work by the way. They'd have to throw Wiggins or another player in the deal to match salaries.

no but you are over paying for what you expect. randle for the 14 after the yr he had? never mind the cap issues with golden state. if you are trading picks to move up do it before the lottery and take your chances and save next yrs pick.
We have 66 in cap space with that expect us to sign a younger wing and a pg. A choice needs to be made on Robinson because he is going to want 20 million when his contract is up. SO if you move anyone you move him save the money and try to get another center.
The same team that was here this yr will not be back. I expect Bullock and maybe Burks but I can see them moving Knox not resigning frank, maybe Noel depending on money. Elf is gone as well.

The knicks maybe star shopping but really who is worth the longer term investment for the team. I can see Schroeder, or ball with a player like Oubre a wing that is supposedly a 3d wing player that can hit open shots. But i have not seen much of him playing to make a clear decision on him he is 25/26 he averaged 15 to 16 points per game but was only hitting on 31% of his 3s this yr.

Those free agent moves to me are more realistic with trying to trade up in the draft. Then moving randle for the 14th pick to get a player that is not his equal, over paying for a lotto pick with draft picks because at the worst you can get a late lotto or gamble and get a high lotto pick and keep next yrs pick and the following yrs 4 picks (2023 2 first round and 2 second round picks) or you could package the 2024 picks with this yrs to try to move up after the lottery
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#63 » by rammagen » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:30 pm

louisorr wrote:
BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:Alperun Sengun needs to be a target and isn’t being talked about enough. It’s overlooked but we have center problems; none of our guys are threats to score…one guy isn’t even a threat to catch the damn ball.

Alpo is the best big outside of Mobley in the draft.

Advanced footwork, skill and comfort in the paint, crafty, physical, nose for the ball, competitive, high motor and IQ…absolutely dominating as an 18 year old in a tough league.

I don’t see any point guard outside of Cade/Suggs being a surefire answer to our pg issues. Butler isn’t that dude either to me. We will likely use free agency or the trade route.

And the wings outside of the lotto all the way to the 50th pick don't offer much separation. You could get the same player at 25 that you can get at 55 in THIS draft.

He's definitely talented, but not sure he fits in the nba, imho
hopefully a team above us drafts him and drops a wing down to us.
crafty footwork and skills in the paint work ok in the euro league where nobody sends a double team and you have all day to twirl and spin and drop step until you get the shot you want. in the nba the paint gets clogged up quickly and physically. even a much bigger and more athletic player like embiid would be average at best without his money jumper from 18 and three point prowess.

from what I read I like Ariel Hukporti 7 footer that can move and needs to be developed could be the with the 2nd pick
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#64 » by NewKnicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:06 pm

rammagen wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
rammagen wrote:and it should never happen
first you under value randle
2 how in the heck is golden state going to fit ranle under the cap they need to move salary in a dump that alone means we should be getting more


A man can dream..

You would rather roll with the same old vets next year? GS could make it work by the way. They'd have to throw Wiggins or another player in the deal to match salaries.

no but you are over paying for what you expect. randle for the 14 after the yr he had? never mind the cap issues with golden state. if you are trading picks to move up do it before the lottery and take your chances and save next yrs pick.
We have 66 in cap space with that expect us to sign a younger wing and a pg. A choice needs to be made on Robinson because he is going to want 20 million when his contract is up. SO if you move anyone you move him save the money and try to get another center.
The same team that was here this yr will not be back. I expect Bullock and maybe Burks but I can see them moving Knox not resigning frank, maybe Noel depending on money. Elf is gone as well.

The knicks maybe star shopping but really who is worth the longer term investment for the team. I can see Schroeder, or ball with a player like Oubre a wing that is supposedly a 3d wing player that can hit open shots. But i have not seen much of him playing to make a clear decision on him he is 25/26 he averaged 15 to 16 points per game but was only hitting on 31% of his 3s this yr.

Those free agent moves to me are more realistic with trying to trade up in the draft. Then moving randle for the 14th pick to get a player that is not his equal, over paying for a lotto pick with draft picks because at the worst you can get a late lotto or gamble and get a high lotto pick and keep next yrs pick and the following yrs 4 picks (2023 2 first round and 2 second round picks) or you could package the 2024 picks with this yrs to try to move up after the lottery


Here's the thing. As Knicks fans we hope that Randle is worth more than that around the league, but I really don't think he is. I think a 7-14 draft slot is his value. Obviously I'm not a GM, but I truly believe that.

You have to understand that teams also saw that playoff performance. Think from their perspective..

I already created my perfect situation moving forward..

Trade Randle for that #14. Trade both our 20's picks to move up to 7-13, then go with two lottery picks/RJ/IQ/Mitch as our future. That scenario would be amazing (in my opinion)
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#65 » by 8516knicks » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 am

Randle himself was a 6/7 pick if I remember right. How many of them flame out (Frank, Dennis Smith, Mudiay, Saric, etc.) vs. get to All Star like Randle. Then ponder how much of it was Thibs vs. Randle? And for Thibs/FO the concrete reality is Randle plus the rest got us to 41 wins and 4th seed. They're not going to ditch that to please crazy fans like on our board. Given this is a top draft, okay, but Randle shouldn't bring less than #5 (forget Kuminga) even so. But our 20 something picks won't get us to #7. If they could, package them with Randle. Even then don't see us cracking the top 3 picks. Even IF you added RJ. Cade, Scruggs, Mobley all out of reach I think. Though I'd go for any of those 3.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#66 » by Nazrmohamed » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:07 am

Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.


But that's the thing, there's no pgs in that range. Davion Mitchell maybe if he slips but you think he's slipping to 12? After that none of the PGs are worth trading up for. That's not to say you can't get a PG at 19 but the ones you can get at 19 are not worth it anywhere closer. Sharif Cooper? Just get him at 19. Butler? Just get him at 19. Tre Mann...21.

But between Mitchell who'll probably go at 10 there's really nobody at PG that matters..... until about pick 19.

Now if you said you wanted to move up for a wing then that's a different story. Loaded at the wing position this draft.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#67 » by NYF13 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:11 am

Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#68 » by GnarlsOakley » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:32 am

How about 19 & 21 to San Antonio for 12 and 41?
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#69 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:40 am

NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


Especially when he is such a great value for the next three years at least.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#70 » by GnarlsOakley » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:49 am

GnarlsOakley wrote:How about 19 & 21 to San Antonio for 12 and 41?


We’d still have 32, 41 and 58 and combining those could get us back into the 25-ish range

The point is: we should come away with Davion Mitchell (or Moses Moody) and Trey Murphy and that’s everything we’d need for an A+ draft
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#71 » by Capn'O » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:42 am

K-DOT wrote:For reference, in 2017, Portland traded 15 and 20 for 10

We have 19 and 21. So like, maybe 12 or 13 if we get lucky.


Lucky 13 was the first number I thought of.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#72 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:45 am

Capn'O wrote:
K-DOT wrote:For reference, in 2017, Portland traded 15 and 20 for 10

We have 19 and 21. So like, maybe 12 or 13 if we get lucky.


Lucky 13 was the first number I thought of.


:nod:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#73 » by rammagen » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:46 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
rammagen wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
A man can dream..

You would rather roll with the same old vets next year? GS could make it work by the way. They'd have to throw Wiggins or another player in the deal to match salaries.

no but you are over paying for what you expect. randle for the 14 after the yr he had? never mind the cap issues with golden state. if you are trading picks to move up do it before the lottery and take your chances and save next yrs pick.
We have 66 in cap space with that expect us to sign a younger wing and a pg. A choice needs to be made on Robinson because he is going to want 20 million when his contract is up. SO if you move anyone you move him save the money and try to get another center.
The same team that was here this yr will not be back. I expect Bullock and maybe Burks but I can see them moving Knox not resigning frank, maybe Noel depending on money. Elf is gone as well.

The knicks maybe star shopping but really who is worth the longer term investment for the team. I can see Schroeder, or ball with a player like Oubre a wing that is supposedly a 3d wing player that can hit open shots. But i have not seen much of him playing to make a clear decision on him he is 25/26 he averaged 15 to 16 points per game but was only hitting on 31% of his 3s this yr.

Those free agent moves to me are more realistic with trying to trade up in the draft. Then moving randle for the 14th pick to get a player that is not his equal, over paying for a lotto pick with draft picks because at the worst you can get a late lotto or gamble and get a high lotto pick and keep next yrs pick and the following yrs 4 picks (2023 2 first round and 2 second round picks) or you could package the 2024 picks with this yrs to try to move up after the lottery


Here's the thing. As Knicks fans we hope that Randle is worth more than that around the league, but I really don't think he is. I think a 7-14 draft slot is his value. Obviously I'm not a GM, but I truly believe that.

You have to understand that teams also saw that playoff performance. Think from their perspective..

I already created my perfect situation moving forward..

Trade Randle for that #14. Trade both our 20's picks to move up to 7-13, then go with two lottery picks/RJ/IQ/Mitch as our future. That scenario would be amazing (in my opinion)

you are way under valuing him yes he was bad in the play offs so was the entire team, why keep JR according to your theory. You are selling way to low.
So I have to disagree also this is not a way to build a team but rather a treadmill team hoping to hit on a start.
Let's say you have Randle and JR and those are our two pieces....then you either get another piece and hope to hit on the two picks because outside of the top 5 or 6 the rest of the players chances to be a game changed is about the same.
If we take your route we need two more pieces and hope you hit on 2 picks rather then one...So hard pass on your plan.
I see the Knicks going after a swing man and pg keeping those pieces and trading picks to move up
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#74 » by nedleeds » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:24 pm

KnixinSix wrote:Just trying to figure out in this draft if we packaged both our top first round picks , how high could we realistically get to in the 1st round?


19, 21, and Dallas 2023 might get us up to 10 if somebody bets on Dallas failing.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#75 » by nedleeds » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:26 pm

NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


What map are we on exactly? Also when are we hanging the Covid-19 2020-21 4th seed banner?
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#76 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:00 pm

NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


Well you know, when your best player since Carmelo Anthony can't pull gold out his butt hole while parting the Red Sea while he's walking on it, he's no good and should be dumped for a chance to draft the next Frank. :wink:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#77 » by nedleeds » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:26 pm

moocow007 wrote:
NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


Well you know, when your best player since Carmelo Anthony can't pull gold out his butt hole while parting the Red Sea while he's walking on it, he's no good and should be dumped for a chance to draft the next Frank. :wink:


But both of you would immediately trade him for the 6th pick right? If not I'd say you are crazy. If not the 6th what's your threshold? We all 100% agree if you got offered the #1 pick for Randle every single person on this board would snap take that offer.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#78 » by moocow007 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:39 pm

nedleeds wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


Well you know, when your best player since Carmelo Anthony can't pull gold out his butt hole while parting the Red Sea while he's walking on it, he's no good and should be dumped for a chance to draft the next Frank. :wink:


But both of you would immediately trade him for the 6th pick right? If not I'd say you are crazy. If not the 6th what's your threshold? We all 100% agree if you got offered the #1 pick for Randle every single person on this board would snap take that offer.


Call me crazy. No I would not entertain trading him for the 6th pick unless one of the top guys slips to 6. This is a 4-5 player draft and honestly IMO only 3 of them I really think can be the type of player the Knicks need that would really make it worth it.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#79 » by BBALLER4FR » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:43 pm

nedleeds wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
NYF13 wrote:Whoever here posted that Randle would be traded for higher picks will need to take their head out of their asses. Seriously! I know it’s Friday night. But you need to... still. You want to trade a face of the franchise who put the Knicks on the map and got us the 4th seed and trade him off the team? Wow man. This is some level of low immatured cart pushing NYers. Haha!!!


Well you know, when your best player since Carmelo Anthony can't pull gold out his butt hole while parting the Red Sea while he's walking on it, he's no good and should be dumped for a chance to draft the next Frank. :wink:


But both of you would immediately trade him for the 6th pick right? If not I'd say you are crazy. If not the 6th what's your threshold? We all 100% agree if you got offered the #1 pick for Randle every single person on this board would snap take that offer.


I'm not even a huge fan of Randle, but what guarantee do I get from the 6th pick that's more than what Randle has provided this year? Remember, MIP and All-Star. You value young potential too much when you casually discard talented, imposing players who have made a leap and could be key if built around correctly. Randle is a known (yes flawed) commodity. You'd prefer an unknown on the Frank Ntilikina/Mikal Bridges scale? Pass.
Sooooo..ummmm.....we tanking again or what?
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#80 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:48 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Well you know, when your best player since Carmelo Anthony can't pull gold out his butt hole while parting the Red Sea while he's walking on it, he's no good and should be dumped for a chance to draft the next Frank. :wink:


But both of you would immediately trade him for the 6th pick right? If not I'd say you are crazy. If not the 6th what's your threshold? We all 100% agree if you got offered the #1 pick for Randle every single person on this board would snap take that offer.


I'm not even a huge fan of Randle, but what guarantee do I get from the 6th pick that's more than what Randle has provided this year? Remember, MIP and All-Star. You value young potential too much when you casually discard talented, imposing players who have made a leap and could be key if built around correctly. Randle is a known (yes flawed) commodity. You'd prefer an unknown on the Frank Ntilikina/Mikal Bridges scale? Pass.


Don't bother.. some people just will never understand that real Front Offices don't operate like 2k nor do they ever acknowledge the human element of running a sports franchise and what trading Randle for just picks would do to the Knicks perception around the league.

"Hey come play for the Knicks! Once you get good we'll trade you for unknown quantities and kick you to the curb"

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