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How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us?

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#21 » by Spree2Houston » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:32 pm

It depends on the draft. If it's a top heavy (2-3 guys) draft and the rest are seen as potential role players, then it's probably easier to trade up in the top 12 with only our two picks. But this draft is special. There's a chance you could see 7-8 guys (maybe 10) becoming all-stars in the future. The cost to trade up will be much higher.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#22 » by KnixinSix » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:33 pm

spree8 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:For reference, in 2017, Portland traded 15 and 20 for 10

We have 19 and 21. So like, maybe 12 or 13 if we get lucky.



In 2010, OKC got the 11th pick for the 21st n 26th.

Guess it depends on the draft, the talent available, and the team making the trade.


Thats exactly right. So I am not super familiar with the talent drop off and tiers for this draft yet. Do 19 and 21 get us to 10 in this draft? Interesting question if we dont pull off a big trade.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#23 » by cgmw » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:44 pm

Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.

Who fans want in the draft is easily the cheapest commodity on this board. Two is better than one because it gives management two chances to be right/wrong. One higher pick is best if and only if we hit the damn thing.

The question isn’t “who do you want” — the question is: Do you trust the Knicks to pick the right guy?

To answer the OP: if there’s a trade to be made it will be for a pick at exactly the cut-off boundary of top tier-and mid tier.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#24 » by louisorr » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:15 pm

cgmw wrote:
Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.

Who fans want in the draft is easily the cheapest commodity on this board. Two is better than one because it gives management two chances to be right/wrong. One higher pick is best if and only if we hit the damn thing.

The question isn’t “who do you want” — the question is: Do you trust the Knicks to pick the right guy?

To answer the OP: if there’s a trade to be made it will be for a pick at exactly the cut-off boundary of top tier-and mid tier.

Thats why drafting and scouting is such a secretive art. You've got dozens of people working for each team, looking deep into mental make up, who their friends are, family, neighborhood on top of deeeeep dives into their play from hs on up. Then you need a consensus in that scouting room which is hard enough. So at some point you have to trust that you've identified a guy or three in your range which shouldn't be based on talkathon or cbssports mocks. Everything everyone of us knows is based on shared information on the internet. But our favorite teams ..they are obviously going to know more than us..so the drop from teir one to teir two and so on isn't some sort of red line that mike Schmitz decides, it's fluid from team to team and like you say you ultimately have to watch the games and trust/hope your team made the right call if they traded up or didn't. and as Knicks fans we don't have history on our side (see jerian grant) but we have new management so fingers crossed.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#25 » by WargamesX » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:26 pm

Probably the 14-16 range, if we added the 2023 Mavs pick maybe the 12-14 range. That’s not based on value as much as the Spurs and Pacers might both do soft rebuilds and three picks could help more than one.

The Warriors at 14 seems to be the most likely trade partner, they need good roleplayers on rookie salaries if they are going to compete again.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#26 » by robillionaire » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:50 pm

cgmw wrote:
Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.

Who fans want in the draft is easily the cheapest commodity on this board. Two is better than one because it gives management two chances to be right/wrong. One higher pick is best if and only if we hit the damn thing.

The question isn’t “who do you want” — the question is: Do you trust the Knicks to pick the right guy?

To answer the OP: if there’s a trade to be made it will be for a pick at exactly the cut-off boundary of top tier-and mid tier.


There seems to be no real tier difference between 19-21 and 12-14. It really just looks like those top 5 guys and then everyone else. There should be the same value at 19-21 as 12-14. That’s just my outlook, not sure how others feel about it. But there’s not any one person in the late lotto range that seems worth two picks at 19 and 21 to me.

Now our scouts might identify someone in that range that they think is a real sleeper and if they do that let’s go for it then
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#27 » by blanko » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:33 am

15~19

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#28 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Jun 7, 2021 9:41 am

robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks
Giddey?

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#29 » by Montmorencie » Mon Jun 7, 2021 10:18 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks
Giddey?

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#30 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:40 pm

KnixinSix wrote:Just trying to figure out in this draft if we packaged both our top first round picks , how high could we realistically get to in the 1st round?


I'm honestly not getting all this Knicks trying to trade into the lottery for the name guys by offering all 4 of their draft picks talk. Everyone and their moms know talent wins in the NBA. I can't see any of the teams in the top part of the lottery (pretty much all of whom are there because they lack serious talent) being willing to forego a much better chance of drafting an impact talent in favor of volume of players. This draft is real strong...at the top. Once you get past the named guys, this draft isn't exactly stellar...it's average. So where would trade both 1sts get the Knicks? Maybe the 11-14 range? At which point, you may be better off just using (hopefully) your more adept scouting to pick the 2 guys that you think will be better role players than the 1 guy you'll draft in that range will likely be. If the Knicks are going to make a move you gotta be serious about it and no half back it or one-foot in and one-foot out it (like most fans seem to want to operate).
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#31 » by TBri1974 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:34 pm

If we could get to Moses Moody for our 2 1st rounders, I would take that. For Giddy, I would likely go 32 and 19. This is a deep draft. I prefer to stand pat, but i do understand Thibs won't play 4 rookies.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#32 » by BugginOut » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:00 pm

Don’t trade for a pick, trade for a prospect. Wait till draft day and if there is someone in the range you like trade two picks for them. The FO might feel more comfortable getting two shots in this draft.

And I say we could trade up to as high as 12 with two picks
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#33 » by KnixinSix » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:28 am

WargamesX wrote:Probably the 14-16 range, if we added the 2023 Mavs pick maybe the 12-14 range. That’s not based on value as much as the Spurs and Pacers might both do soft rebuilds and three picks could help more than one.

The Warriors at 14 seems to be the most likely trade partner, they need good roleplayers on rookie salaries if they are going to compete again.


I'm guessing 10-12 especially if it flattens out value wise after the top 8.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#34 » by ForzaMetro » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:41 am

One thing is for sure…we have 4 picks and there’s no way we’re carrying 4 rookies on next year’s roster. Should make for an interesting draft night.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#35 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:28 am

duetta wrote:How about 19, 21, and 32?

The interesting question is what Obi's value is. Does he still have the value of the 8th pick? If we include him, how high can we go? Can we get our potential franchise player?


Not if you're referring to our franchise player being one of Cade/Suggs/Mobley/Green/Kominga. We won't get close with that package. Even if you threw in next year's first and RJ, you're still not getting into the top 4.

Now, if you're considering 6-10 as a possibility to get a franchise player, yes, we could get there. But who do you want?
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#36 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:31 am

robillionaire wrote:
Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.


well there isn't any, sorry


We're not getting Cade/Suggs, and the dropoff after that is significant. Might as well hold onto both of our picks in that scenario and take one of Ayo/Sharife in the 20's.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#37 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:34 am

Knicks could move all the way up to 17

:-)
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#38 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:34 am

Spree2Houston wrote:It depends on the draft. If it's a top heavy (2-3 guys) draft and the rest are seen as potential role players, then it's probably easier to trade up in the top 12 with only our two picks. But this draft is special. There's a chance you could see 7-8 guys (maybe 10) becoming all-stars in the future. The cost to trade up will be much higher.


Careful with that! I was laughed out of here for suggesting the same thing. But it's true. There are 7-8+ players who could turn out to be special. It's not just a top-4 draft.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#39 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:35 am

The real question should be is how many future 2nd round picks can Brock Aller convert those first round picks into.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#40 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:36 am

KnixinSix wrote:
spree8 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:For reference, in 2017, Portland traded 15 and 20 for 10

We have 19 and 21. So like, maybe 12 or 13 if we get lucky.



In 2010, OKC got the 11th pick for the 21st n 26th.

Guess it depends on the draft, the talent available, and the team making the trade.


Thats exactly right. So I am not super familiar with the talent drop off and tiers for this draft yet. Do 19 and 21 get us to 10 in this draft? Interesting question if we dont pull off a big trade.


I highly doubt it in this stacked draft. But it only takes one team to bite, so you never know.

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