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How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us?

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#41 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:36 am

duetta wrote:How about 19, 21, and 32?

The interesting question is what Obi's value is. Does he still have the value of the 8th pick? If we include him, how high can we go? Can we get our potential franchise player?


Here's Obi's value:

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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#42 » by DaGawd » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:41 am

We should seriously think of attaching Obi to those picks for maybe a top 6 pick
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#43 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:51 am

Now we're talking! I've been in love with this draft for several years. This is one of the better drafts in a long time.

There are 5 Elite Prospects at the top (you could argue Kominga is not one, but I think he is. He dominated the G league at 18 years old, and flashed a very advanced game at his age). All 5 would be the first pick in last year's draft.

You could also argue the Elite Prospect category goes to 7, if you include Scottie Barnes and Keon Johnson.

In this draft you have:

1-5 All-NBA Potential, Elite Prospects. Cade/Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kominga are pretty much set in stone. 1-4 are interchangeable (except probably Cade at 1, but you never know) depending on where teams draft. The only potential movement would be a team taking Scottie Barnes/Keon Johnson at 5 over Kominga.

6-7 Elite/All-Star Potential. Barnes/Keon Johnson

This is where a slight fall off begins.. Starting at 8. It could be a significant drop, but that does not mean 8-17 couldn't be really good players in the league.

8-12 A lot of upside - could develop into good/great players, but a lot more uncertainty

13-17 Starter level Potential

18-32 Draft Mocks are all over the place in this range. But, this draft is deep as well, and there could be keepers had in this range. Also, you're drafting for need in this range as well.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#44 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:11 am

WargamesX wrote:Probably the 14-16 range, if we added the 2023 Mavs pick maybe the 12-14 range. That’s not based on value as much as the Spurs and Pacers might both do soft rebuilds and three picks could help more than one.

The Warriors at 14 seems to be the most likely trade partner, they need good roleplayers on rookie salaries if they are going to compete again.


Randle for GS #14.

Trade our 2 picks in the 20's (and maybe next year's 1st) to get another pick in the 10-15 range.

Roll with: Two players in the lottery in a great draft/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi. That would put all of them in the right age range as well. Add other youngish players with our 60M available (is that the right number? Not sure).

Now that would be a team I could get excited about going into the future. We would get into the conversation as one of the young, exciting teams on the rise for years to come. Who's with me? :D

Sadly, it will never happen.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#45 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:15 am

robillionaire wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Nostrand Ave wrote:
A decent PG.

Who fans want in the draft is easily the cheapest commodity on this board. Two is better than one because it gives management two chances to be right/wrong. One higher pick is best if and only if we hit the damn thing.

The question isn’t “who do you want” — the question is: Do you trust the Knicks to pick the right guy?

To answer the OP: if there’s a trade to be made it will be for a pick at exactly the cut-off boundary of top tier-and mid tier.


There seems to be no real tier difference between 19-21 and 12-14. It really just looks like those top 5 guys and then everyone else. There should be the same value at 19-21 as 12-14. That’s just my outlook, not sure how others feel about it. But there’s not any one person in the late lotto range that seems worth two picks at 19 and 21 to me.

Now our scouts might identify someone in that range that they think is a real sleeper and if they do that let’s go for it then


Scottie Barnes and Keon Johnson at 6-7, then it drops down another tier at 8.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#46 » by Marty McFly » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:35 am

totally forgot that RJ and Zion played together at Duke. We need to keep RJ on that alone until Zion signs his extension. :lol:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#47 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:59 am

Marty McFly wrote:totally forgot that RJ and Zion played together at Duke. We need to keep RJ on that alone until Zion signs his extension. :lol:


This is the potential move that's a little below the radar. Zion is too big for a team like the Pelicans, and maybe he would love to reunite with fellow Dukie RJ to play in NYC.

If I'm going to put my eggs in one basket for a player making a move, it won't be Dame/Kawhi/Lavine/Beal. It would be Zion. We might as well throw in Ja as well, so he can distribute to both of them. Could you imagine? :lol:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#48 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:10 am

NewKnicks wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:totally forgot that RJ and Zion played together at Duke. We need to keep RJ on that alone until Zion signs his extension. :lol:


This is the potential move that's a little below the radar. Zion is too big for a team like the Pelicans, and maybe he would love to reunite with fellow Dukie RJ to play in NYC.

If I'm going to put my eggs in one basket for a player making a move, it won't be Dame/Kawhi/Lavine/Beal. It would be Zion. We might as well throw in Ja as well, so he can distribute to both of them. Could you imagine? :lol:


Trade RJ to the Pelicans after trading Randle
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#49 » by duetta » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:02 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
duetta wrote:How about 19, 21, and 32?

The interesting question is what Obi's value is. Does he still have the value of the 8th pick? If we include him, how high can we go? Can we get our potential franchise player?


Here's Obi's value:

Image


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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#50 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:55 am

Alperun Sengun needs to be a target and isn’t being talked about enough. It’s overlooked but we have center problems; none of our guys are threats to score…one guy isn’t even a threat to catch the damn ball.

Alpo is the best big outside of Mobley in the draft.

Advanced footwork, skill and comfort in the paint, crafty, physical, nose for the ball, competitive, high motor and IQ…absolutely dominating as an 18 year old in a tough league.

I don’t see any point guard outside of Cade/Suggs being a surefire answer to our pg issues. Butler isn’t that dude either to me. We will likely use free agency or the trade route.

And the wings outside of the lotto all the way to the 50th pick don't offer much separation. You could get the same player at 25 that you can get at 55 in THIS draft.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#51 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:59 am

And the trade up/out/down thing is completely fluid.
Some teams value the roster spots more than a prospect.

Some teams will miss out on their guy and not be willing to part with what’s necessary to trade up and hence, they trade out. It’s completely fluid. 19+21+32 looks a lot different if you’re willing to take back salary.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#52 » by Spree2Houston » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:25 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:It depends on the draft. If it's a top heavy (2-3 guys) draft and the rest are seen as potential role players, then it's probably easier to trade up in the top 12 with only our two picks. But this draft is special. There's a chance you could see 7-8 guys (maybe 10) becoming all-stars in the future. The cost to trade up will be much higher.


Careful with that! I was laughed out of here for suggesting the same thing. But it's true. There are 7-8+ players who could turn out to be special. It's not just a top-4 draft.


In a few years, people will be talking about how can we trade so and so for guys from this Draft class.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#53 » by Marty McFly » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:25 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:totally forgot that RJ and Zion played together at Duke. We need to keep RJ on that alone until Zion signs his extension. :lol:


This is the potential move that's a little below the radar. Zion is too big for a team like the Pelicans, and maybe he would love to reunite with fellow Dukie RJ to play in NYC.

If I'm going to put my eggs in one basket for a player making a move, it won't be Dame/Kawhi/Lavine/Beal. It would be Zion. We might as well throw in Ja as well, so he can distribute to both of them. Could you imagine? :lol:


Trade RJ to the Pelicans after trading Randle
:lol:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#54 » by rammagen » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:29 pm

NewKnicks wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Probably the 14-16 range, if we added the 2023 Mavs pick maybe the 12-14 range. That’s not based on value as much as the Spurs and Pacers might both do soft rebuilds and three picks could help more than one.

The Warriors at 14 seems to be the most likely trade partner, they need good roleplayers on rookie salaries if they are going to compete again.


Randle for GS #14.

Trade our 2 picks in the 20's (and maybe next year's 1st) to get another pick in the 10-15 range.

Roll with: Two players in the lottery in a great draft/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi. That would put all of them in the right age range as well. Add other youngish players with our 60M available (is that the right number? Not sure).

Now that would be a team I could get excited about going into the future. We would get into the conversation as one of the young, exciting teams on the rise for years to come. Who's with me? :D

Sadly, it will never happen.

and it should never happen
first you under value randle
2 how in the heck is golden state going to fit ranle under the cap they need to move salary in a dump that alone means we should be getting more
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#55 » by louisorr » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:14 pm

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:Alperun Sengun needs to be a target and isn’t being talked about enough. It’s overlooked but we have center problems; none of our guys are threats to score…one guy isn’t even a threat to catch the damn ball.

Alpo is the best big outside of Mobley in the draft.

Advanced footwork, skill and comfort in the paint, crafty, physical, nose for the ball, competitive, high motor and IQ…absolutely dominating as an 18 year old in a tough league.

I don’t see any point guard outside of Cade/Suggs being a surefire answer to our pg issues. Butler isn’t that dude either to me. We will likely use free agency or the trade route.

And the wings outside of the lotto all the way to the 50th pick don't offer much separation. You could get the same player at 25 that you can get at 55 in THIS draft.

He's definitely talented, but not sure he fits in the nba, imho
hopefully a team above us drafts him and drops a wing down to us.
crafty footwork and skills in the paint work ok in the euro league where nobody sends a double team and you have all day to twirl and spin and drop step until you get the shot you want. in the nba the paint gets clogged up quickly and physically. even a much bigger and more athletic player like embiid would be average at best without his money jumper from 18 and three point prowess.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#56 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:20 pm

duetta wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
duetta wrote:How about 19, 21, and 32?

The interesting question is what Obi's value is. Does he still have the value of the 8th pick? If we include him, how high can we go? Can we get our potential franchise player?


Here's Obi's value:

Image


Do you have personality or substance abuse issues? Which one is it?


Neither. I can't help it if Obi isn't any better than LFT and was drafted because Leon Rose has nepotism issues.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#57 » by moocow007 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:19 pm

Nostrand Ave wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I was gonna say 12-14 maybe

But the more important question is..... why? Who do you want in that range so bad that’s worth two picks


A decent PG.


The Knicks don't need just a decent PG is the problem. If that's all they need they can sign one in free agency. If all they need is a decent PG they can sign Mike James who currently is starting for the Nets in the playoffs.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#58 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:11 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:totally forgot that RJ and Zion played together at Duke. We need to keep RJ on that alone until Zion signs his extension. :lol:


This is the potential move that's a little below the radar. Zion is too big for a team like the Pelicans, and maybe he would love to reunite with fellow Dukie RJ to play in NYC.

If I'm going to put my eggs in one basket for a player making a move, it won't be Dame/Kawhi/Lavine/Beal. It would be Zion. We might as well throw in Ja as well, so he can distribute to both of them. Could you imagine? :lol:


Trade RJ to the Pelicans after trading Randle


So who are we keeping? :D Zion and Ja? I'm down.
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#59 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:15 pm

Spree2Houston wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:It depends on the draft. If it's a top heavy (2-3 guys) draft and the rest are seen as potential role players, then it's probably easier to trade up in the top 12 with only our two picks. But this draft is special. There's a chance you could see 7-8 guys (maybe 10) becoming all-stars in the future. The cost to trade up will be much higher.


Careful with that! I was laughed out of here for suggesting the same thing. But it's true. There are 7-8+ players who could turn out to be special. It's not just a top-4 draft.


In a few years, people will be talking about how can we trade so and so for guys from this Draft class.


So true. We'll be seeing threads in two years saying "Trade IQ, a 1st and 2nd rounder for All-Star Jalen Suggs" :lol:
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Re: How high up in the draft would both FRPs get us? 

Post#60 » by NewKnicks » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:16 pm

rammagen wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Probably the 14-16 range, if we added the 2023 Mavs pick maybe the 12-14 range. That’s not based on value as much as the Spurs and Pacers might both do soft rebuilds and three picks could help more than one.

The Warriors at 14 seems to be the most likely trade partner, they need good roleplayers on rookie salaries if they are going to compete again.


Randle for GS #14.

Trade our 2 picks in the 20's (and maybe next year's 1st) to get another pick in the 10-15 range.

Roll with: Two players in the lottery in a great draft/RJ/IQ/Mitch/Obi. That would put all of them in the right age range as well. Add other youngish players with our 60M available (is that the right number? Not sure).

Now that would be a team I could get excited about going into the future. We would get into the conversation as one of the young, exciting teams on the rise for years to come. Who's with me? :D

Sadly, it will never happen.

and it should never happen
first you under value randle
2 how in the heck is golden state going to fit ranle under the cap they need to move salary in a dump that alone means we should be getting more


A man can dream..

You would rather roll with the same old vets next year? GS could make it work by the way. They'd have to throw Wiggins or another player in the deal to match salaries.

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