The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

WajaBawl · Post #241 » by **WajaBawl** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 5:58 pm

Marty McFly wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Trade RJ inna package for a top 5 pick.. profit

too low. I'd absolutely trade him in a package for the first pick. top 5 is too much breathing room for the knicks to **** up.

Perhaps. If you could trade RJ for one of Suggs, Jalen Green & obv Cade, you take that deal and run. I'd even consider Kuminga over him.

Fury · Post #242 » by **Fury** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 5:59 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Trade RJ inna package for a top 5 pick.. profit

I honestly wouldn't be against it. thebuzzardman hit it right on the nail, the league caters to creative shot creators and wings that can create on the perimeter. RJ is a bully-ball type player who's managed to improve his 3-point shot, but nothing else really.

The fact that people fail to see that is pretty mind-boggling.

It’s mind boggling how you and that other **** idiot create strawmen to make your points

jvsimonetti0514 · Post #243 » by **jvsimonetti0514** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:08 pm

Gotta say it's pretty impressive for someone to put similar numbers to the star wings in the league in their second season without and skill or athleticism. I wonder how he can do that?

Post #244 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:09 pm

WajaBawl wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Trade RJ inna package for a top 5 pick.. profit

I honestly wouldn't be against it. thebuzzardman hit it right on the nail, the league caters to creative shot creators and wings that can create on the perimeter. RJ is a bully-ball type player who's managed to improve his 3-point shot, but nothing else really.

The fact that people fail to see that is pretty mind-boggling.

He went from 32% to 40% from 3 and improved his efficiency across the board. That really isn't good enough improvement for you in one offseason? That is what boggles my mind :lol:

Oscirus · Post #245 » by **Oscirus** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:10 pm

Yes trade a player that thibs trust for a player that's a rookie and has a chance of getting little playing time. I don't see that ending up tragic at all. And they said a package meaning it wouldn't only be rj. Omg lolol

robillionaire · Post #246 » by **robillionaire** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:14 pm

It’s summer just go to the beach or something we are in good hands with Leon Rose and Thibs

DaGawd · Post #247 » by **DaGawd** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:25 pm

Oscirus wrote:Yes trade a player that thibs trust for a player that's a rookie and has a chance of getting little playing time. I don't see that ending up tragic at all. And they said a package meaning it wouldn't only be rj. Omg lolol

Yea.. Thibs trust him so much that he sat in crunch time of some games including playoff games..

Oscirus · Post #248 » by **Oscirus** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:34 pm

DaGawd wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Yes trade a player that thibs trust for a player that's a rookie and has a chance of getting little playing time. I don't see that ending up tragic at all. And they said a package meaning it wouldn't only be rj. Omg lolol

Yea.. Thibs trust him so much that he sat in crunch time of some games including playoff games..

Key word being some. Yet he's still among the league leader in minutes. There goes that argument

Jimmit79 · Post #249 » by **Jimmit79** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:39 pm

This offseason we will see if this FO are creative or just here to cash out with Dolans money.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Post #250 » by **Capn'O** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:44 pm

robillionaire wrote:It’s summer just go to the beach or something we are in good hands with Leon Rose and Thibs

Word

BugginOut · Post #251 » by **BugginOut** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:53 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:Gotta say it's pretty impressive for someone to put similar numbers to the star wings in the league in their second season without and skill or athleticism. I wonder how he can do that?

Yeah, RJ gets to the rim really well and shoots the 3 really well, but apparently since he doesn’t take mid range jump shots, the most inefficient shot in basketball, he can never be an good scorer.

James Harden is the best offensive player in the league and he took 8 shots total in the mid range (between 16ft and 3pt line) ALL SEASON. All RJ needs to do is develop a pull up 3, and he’ll be a 20+ PPG scorer easily.

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #252 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:04 pm

RJ was at 1.07ppp as the PnR ball handler during the the playoffs, he was at .79ppp during the season. Can someone please tell me how to these numbers do not matter.

DaGawd · Post #253 » by **DaGawd** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:07 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:RJ was at 1.07ppp as the PnR ball handler during the the playoffs, he was at .79ppp during the season. Can someone please tell me how to these numbers do not matter.

Break this down for me

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #254 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:18 pm

DaGawd wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:RJ was at 1.07ppp as the PnR ball handler during the the playoffs, he was at .79ppp during the season. Can someone please tell me how to these numbers do not matter.

Break this down for me

RJ is above average as a PnR ball handler for his position, we don't run the play frequently and instead make him do things he's not as good at. Any other team would give him 2-3x more possessions running the play. If you gave him possessions as a ball handler and ran high screen and roll action between him and Mitch (an elite rollman) our offense would run better and the ball would move more. For reference points, JA Morant was at .81ppp on the season as the ball handler, Trae Young who absolutely killed us with it is at 1.14 for the playoffs, so here we have a person on our team that the analytics favor running the play, but we don't do it. For the playoffs RJ was in the 76th percentile running the PnR, instead of going to it more, we continued to go to what wasn't working.

Instead people complain about what they think RJ will never be, when it's pretty obvious that he should be on the ball more, in the corner less, and running modern high screen and roll action like almost every other team in the league.

NYKat · Post #255 » by **NYKat** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:27 pm

I’m not in the doubting Julius business anymore, at the beginning of the season all of you would have traded Randle for a bag of peanuts in favor of Obi and would have been crying about he developed into a superstar elsewhere...

I’m down to ride with Julius as a number 2 on a contender, because he will improve.

jvsimonetti0514 · Post #256 » by **jvsimonetti0514** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:29 pm

BugginOut wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:Gotta say it's pretty impressive for someone to put similar numbers to the star wings in the league in their second season without and skill or athleticism. I wonder how he can do that?

Yeah, RJ gets to the rim really well and shoots the 3 really well, but apparently since he doesn’t take mid range jump shots, the most inefficient shot in basketball, he can never be an good scorer.

James Harden is the best offensive player in the league and he took 8 shots total in the mid range (between 16ft and 3pt line) ALL SEASON. All RJ needs to do is develop a pull up 3, and he’ll be a 20+ PPG scorer easily.

I don't think all of the criticisms of him are that outrageous but there's definitely some implication he's a bad player and that's just wrong. The one thing they're right about is If he's going to take the next step, he's got to be able to take off the dribble jumpers and hit them at a decent clip. That's what all the star players do and he needs to get that down. I'm putting a lot of trust in Hanlen cuz he works with a bunch of star guys and has gotten them all better. So I'm very confident that he's going to be able to get RJ to that next level.

The thing is I thought we saw some flashes of the off the dribble stuff already this year. He was using an elbow midrange jumper a bunch this year and was pretty successful with it in February and March but fell off later on. The off the dribble threes were fewer and further apart than the midrange stuff but he was attempting them. So it's not completely out of his wheel house to say it's never going to happen. If he ends up developing into more of a Kris Middleton/ Jaylen Brown type of player that's still really solid player and nothing to be upset about.

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #257 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:33 pm

NYKat wrote:I’m not in the doubting Julius business anymore, at the beginning of the season all of you would have traded Randle for a bag of peanuts in favor of Obi and would have been crying about he developed into a superstar elsewhere...

I’m down to ride with Julius as a number 2 on a contender, because he will improve.

I'd trade for a bag of peanuts now, he had one of the worst playoff performances in the last 20 years, and that's not even hyperbole. That wasn't just playoff jitters, that was an exposal like what happened to Siakam, except his performance was even worse than Pascals.

You don't double down on a guy after he shoots .298% from the field with 4.6 topg. If he looked like that against the Hawks, what exactly would he have looked like against the Bucks, Sixers or Heat over the course of a series? Teams that can scheme him and have individual defenders to go at him as well.

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #258 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:35 pm

We need to move on from Randle, all that max talk died down quick.

Meat · Post #259 » by **Meat** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:36 pm

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
Meat wrote:
Ghetto Gospel wrote:
not happening on the knicks

Why haven’t you won the lottery yet?

because i dont play it, i dont have delusions of grandeur. when was the last time we got a superstar player in free agency or trade that made us a contender? what makes you think we'll get one now? media infused delusions of grandeur?

i don't have delusions of grandeur, i just know the nature of first times. and i can infer, i know that the nba wants the knicks to be good, and from the twitter reactions of actual nba players\stars i know that nba players have some feeling about a MSG popping off.

when was the last time the nets signed a superstar player? suddenly they have 2 in free agency
when was the last time the clippers suddenly have 2(Well 1.5)

that's the nature of first times, it happens for the first time(or first time in a while)

NYKat · Post #260 » by **NYKat** » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:42 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NYKat wrote:I’m not in the doubting Julius business anymore, at the beginning of the season all of you would have traded Randle for a bag of peanuts in favor of Obi and would have been crying about he developed into a superstar elsewhere...

I’m down to ride with Julius as a number 2 on a contender, because he will improve.

I'd trade for a bag of peanuts now, he had one of the worst playoff performances in the last 20 years, and that's not even hyperbole. That wasn't just playoff jitters, that was an exposal like what happened to Siakam, except his performance was even worse than Pascals.

You don't double down on a guy after he shoots .298% from the field with 4.6 topg. If he looked like that against the Hawks, what exactly would he have looked like against the Bucks, Sixers or Heat over the course of a series? Teams that can scheme him and have individual defenders to go at him as well.

Trading an all nba player for a bag of peanuts, is such a Knick fan thing to do, knee jerk reactions over emotion, I think our front office is better than this