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The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#301 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:08 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Building around Randle feels like building around Marbury would have been like back in the day.

If you carefully put the right team around both guys you can definitely max out as a 2nd round exit for 4 years.


You think we're should trade Randle this off season?


Should, but won't
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#302 » by Slim Charless » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:37 am

Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Go look at our record against Nets, Heat, Sixers and the non-Thannasis Run Bucks.

0-3 vs. sixers
0-2 vs. nuggets
0-3 vs. heat
0-3 vs. nets

Thibs banked fake wins against trash teams who were either sitting players out for covid or tanking. We banked like 10-15 compplete **** wins. This team is garbage in a normal season with normal rosters. We'd be lucky to scratch the 8th seed.

But yeah let's max Randle for going 3-0 vs. the Wizards and Lloyd Pierce.


That's why I ask, would you be surprised if we were under .500 next season. My answer is, no, I wouldn't. Now, maybe we make some moves this off season. But as things stand now, meh.

We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#303 » by Davis18 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:42 am

Mikal & 2022 1st would be a starter.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#304 » by nedleeds » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:02 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
That's why I ask, would you be surprised if we were under .500 next season. My answer is, no, I wouldn't. Now, maybe we make some moves this off season. But as things stand now, meh.

We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.


Done. I love Bridges 42.5% from 3 ... check. Can play defense. Check. Fits next to RJ as a shooting guard. Check.

If Randles 40% shooting holds true and I think his defense will since you have a decent coach you've got a great 3rd or 4th option after Booker and Paul.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#305 » by Spree2Houston » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:48 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
That's why I ask, would you be surprised if we were under .500 next season. My answer is, no, I wouldn't. Now, maybe we make some moves this off season. But as things stand now, meh.

We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.


Randle and picks for Ayton in case your owner becomes cheap about maxing out Ayton
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#306 » by ENYK » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:41 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
That's why I ask, would you be surprised if we were under .500 next season. My answer is, no, I wouldn't. Now, maybe we make some moves this off season. But as things stand now, meh.

We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.


Doesn't make sense for the Knicks to trade for him and pay him unless they think Mikal on his own is going to blow up into a star (right now he's an excellent role player)...

Why would the Suns want Randle? They are a legit contender right now with the best inside-outside threat in basketball...

Randle is a throwback ballstopper in the Carmelo mold (except much much worse)... He'll want his touches, the offense to run through him, etc.

It's a good thing fans don't run these organizations (except Knicks fans would probably do a better job than our historically bad FOs).
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#307 » by Oscirus » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
That's why I ask, would you be surprised if we were under .500 next season. My answer is, no, I wouldn't. Now, maybe we make some moves this off season. But as things stand now, meh.

We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


You think we trade Randle?

Id say randle is probably the safest knick on this roster unforch
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#308 » by Oscirus » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:38 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Oscirus wrote: We're def making moves in the offseason no way the knicks get away with that half assed roster construction two seasons in a row.


OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.


Done. I love Bridges 42.5% from 3 ... check. Can play defense. Check. Fits next to RJ as a shooting guard. Check.

If Randles 40% shooting holds true and I think his defense will since you have a decent coach you've got a great 3rd or 4th option after Booker and Paul.

Id love that trade and would say yes immediately. I dont see why the suns would do it since randle is one of those that needs the ball in his hands to be effective which would be problematic for you guys me thinks.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#309 » by Fury » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:13 pm

Oscirus wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
OK NYK fans. Suns fan coming in peace. Would you guys do Randle for Bridges, Dario and Carter? I ask because Ayton and Bridges will both want max deals this summer and we have Cam Johnson behind Bridges. Randle can cover our PF hole and allow us to use Johnson as the starter. You guys get a mini Kawhi (hopefully not) and you won't mind maxing him.


Done. I love Bridges 42.5% from 3 ... check. Can play defense. Check. Fits next to RJ as a shooting guard. Check.

If Randles 40% shooting holds true and I think his defense will since you have a decent coach you've got a great 3rd or 4th option after Booker and Paul.

Id love that trade and would say yes immediately. I dont see why the suns would do it since randle is one of those that needs the ball in his hands to be effective which would be problematic for you guys me thinks.


Bridges looks nice playing as the 4th or 5th option, but on the Knicks, after signing an 80 million dollar deal or whatever, hell no. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. He didn't even have a good series vs. the Lakers either. Randle is way better than Bridges.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#310 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:24 pm

We really need a #1 option. Randle and RJ are good complimentary pieces
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PG: J Murray/ Schroder
SG: Lavine/Dunn
SF: Tatum/Hart
PF: Adebayo/Tate
C: Ayton/Randle


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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#311 » by cgf » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:07 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Building around Randle feels like building around Marbury would have been like back in the day.

If you carefully put the right team around both guys you can definitely max out as a 2nd round exit for 4 years.


You think we're should trade Randle this off season?


Should, but won't

If Julius hadn't just had the postseason he had & torpedoed his value, I'd be more understanding of that argument.

As is I doubt anyone offers us anything too juicy, so our best bet will probably be trying to build a young-2nd-round-exit team over these next two offseasons. If you do that with guys in that RJ-to-Julius age range & Rose can avoid overpaying, you can turn us into an attractive destination while positioning us to make a play for someone like Zion or Booker...whenever that generation of superstars is ready to start moving around.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#312 » by ENYK » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:10 pm

cgf wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
You think we're should trade Randle this off season?


Should, but won't

If Julius hadn't just had the postseason he had & torpedoed his value, I'd be more understanding of that argument.

As is I doubt anyone offers us anything too juicy, so our best bet will probably be trying to build a young-2nd-round-exit team over these next two offseasons. If you do that with guys in that RJ-to-Julius age range & avoid overpaying guys badly, you can turn us into a more attractive destination and position us to make a play for someone like Zion or Booker...whenever that generation of superstars is ready to start moving around.


His stock is definitely down, but I'm sure there would be some takers looking to get to the playoffs/win now instead of developing another lotto pick.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#313 » by Slim Charless » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:28 pm

Fury wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Done. I love Bridges 42.5% from 3 ... check. Can play defense. Check. Fits next to RJ as a shooting guard. Check.

If Randles 40% shooting holds true and I think his defense will since you have a decent coach you've got a great 3rd or 4th option after Booker and Paul.

Id love that trade and would say yes immediately. I dont see why the suns would do it since randle is one of those that needs the ball in his hands to be effective which would be problematic for you guys me thinks.


Bridges looks nice playing as the 4th or 5th option, but on the Knicks, after signing an 80 million dollar deal or whatever, hell no. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. He didn't even have a good series vs. the Lakers either. Randle is way better than Bridges.


This is why I ask. Bridges is our tied for our 3rd option. We usually don't really run plays for Ayton and he gets his off broken plays and cleaning up garbage. If Randle is fine handling that 3rd seat and can still put up similar numbers as now(I think he can with CP3) Suns can run the west for the next few years. You guys think he's too ball dominant to keep this up w/o the offense running through him?
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#314 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:39 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Fury wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Id love that trade and would say yes immediately. I dont see why the suns would do it since randle is one of those that needs the ball in his hands to be effective which would be problematic for you guys me thinks.


Bridges looks nice playing as the 4th or 5th option, but on the Knicks, after signing an 80 million dollar deal or whatever, hell no. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. He didn't even have a good series vs. the Lakers either. Randle is way better than Bridges.


This is why I ask. Bridges is our tied for our 3rd option. We usually don't really run plays for Ayton and he gets his off broken plays and cleaning up garbage. If Randle is fine handling that 3rd seat and can still put up similar numbers as now(I think he can with CP3) Suns can run the west for the next few years. You guys think he's too ball dominant to keep this up w/o the offense running through him?


Add a no. 1?
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#315 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:54 pm

1) Randle does not hold much value. He will be a UFA player in 2022. He had one outlier Allstar season under Thibs system. He is hard to fit in any team (tweener size, high usage). He had a concerning performance in the playoffs. Nobody will pay good money to rent him.

2) We have to analyze Randle for potential. It's easy to make a conclusion that he is a bad player because of his playoff performance. The question is: Can he improve playing under pressure? Of course, he can. He was not ready to play in a noisy playoff atmosphere knowing he was supposed to be the main scorer. He can be more ready next time and the team can sign other players to share the responsibility to score and consequently to punish the opponents to double Randle.

3) I am unsure to max Randle now. But we have another team option year to make a decision and the is a chance of signing an extension (120% of his current salary), which is a pretty good value.

4) I doubt the Front Office will go backward and try a more slow approach next offseason, to try to develop players. The media, fans, owner, coach staff, everybody is thrilling about the Knicks resurgence. Randle is the main piece of our current successful underdog team. We will go shopping to consolidate our team into a playoff team getting another star or at least some good players. We are not trading Randle to get prospects to develop. And there are not many stars in the market. The only way I see getting rid of Randle is getting others stars to his place (something like LAC did with Tobias Harris and Nets did with Dlo).
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#316 » by Ghetto Gospel » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:29 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Fury wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Id love that trade and would say yes immediately. I dont see why the suns would do it since randle is one of those that needs the ball in his hands to be effective which would be problematic for you guys me thinks.


Bridges looks nice playing as the 4th or 5th option, but on the Knicks, after signing an 80 million dollar deal or whatever, hell no. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. He didn't even have a good series vs. the Lakers either. Randle is way better than Bridges.


This is why I ask. Bridges is our tied for our 3rd option. We usually don't really run plays for Ayton and he gets his off broken plays and cleaning up garbage. If Randle is fine handling that 3rd seat and can still put up similar numbers as now(I think he can with CP3) Suns can run the west for the next few years. You guys think he's too ball dominant to keep this up w/o the offense running through him?


On the suns, he'd just be a souped up jae crowder. You guys already have 2 superior ball handlers & playmakers. The cp3/booker + ayton pnr is still far superior to the randle version so really if you want to maximize what he does, you'd have to bring him off the bench like ginobili. It's questionable if he'd even be willing to make that sacrifice because most nba stars don't want to
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#317 » by sol537 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:08 pm

Randle + Knox for Jalen Brown + Kemba + 16th Pick 2021 Draft

Who says no?

Mitch, Obi, Brown, RJ, Kemba (Rose 6th man)

We reset our clock a bit and go even younger (Kemba/Rose are just stopgaps)

16th, 19th, 21st, 32nd... should be able to find at least 1-2 really solid players to add to the mix.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#318 » by nedleeds » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:02 pm

sol537 wrote:Randle + Knox for Jalen Brown + Kemba + 16th Pick 2021 Draft

Who says no?

Mitch, Obi, Brown, RJ, Kemba (Rose 6th man)

We reset our clock a bit and go even younger (Kemba/Rose are just stopgaps)

16th, 19th, 21st, 32nd... should be able to find at least 1-2 really solid players to add to the mix.

The Celtics front office has to be hospitalized from laughing so hard and spraining their wrists hanging up. Brown at his age is more valuable than anything on our roster. Kemba is a bad contract but he's not dead money, Knox is. Randle is decent value on this one remaining year but then he might just revert to the 6 prior years.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#319 » by Marty McFly » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:14 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:We really need a #1 option. Randle and RJ are good complimentary pieces


They're aren't any available and if Randle is extended the knicks will have even less flexibilty to get one in the future.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#320 » by Marty McFly » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:15 pm

sol537 wrote:Randle + Knox for Jalen Brown + Kemba + 16th Pick 2021 Draft

Who says no?

Mitch, Obi, Brown, RJ, Kemba (Rose 6th man)

We reset our clock a bit and go even younger (Kemba/Rose are just stopgaps)

16th, 19th, 21st, 32nd... should be able to find at least 1-2 really solid players to add to the mix.

That is a robbery in favor of the knicks, friend.

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