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The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#321 » by Oscirus » Wed Jun 9, 2021 11:16 pm

Marty McFly wrote:
sol537 wrote:Randle + Knox for Jalen Brown + Kemba + 16th Pick 2021 Draft

Who says no?

Mitch, Obi, Brown, RJ, Kemba (Rose 6th man)

We reset our clock a bit and go even younger (Kemba/Rose are just stopgaps)

16th, 19th, 21st, 32nd... should be able to find at least 1-2 really solid players to add to the mix.

That is a robbery in favor of the knicks, friend.

If they pull that off, Rose is executive of the year
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#322 » by dc » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:05 am

There is no reason the Celts need to trade Brown unless he's part of a package for a disgruntled superstar who will actually make the Celts better.

Brown and Tatum are plenty young. They have time to find the pieces to build around them, and both guys can likely still get better (tho Brown is closer to his ceiling).

If the Celts are still stuck in the same place 2 years from now, then I can see them making a move for the sake of shaking things up. For now, there is no need to trade him for the sake of saying they're doing things.

If the Knicks had Jaylen Brown, you guys wouldn't be looking for ways to trade him away unless a disgruntled superstar was coming in return.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#323 » by ENYK » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:13 am

dc wrote:There is no reason the Celts need to trade Brown unless he's part of a package for a disgruntled superstar who will actually make the Celts better.

Brown and Tatum are plenty young. They have time to find the pieces to build around them, and both guys can likely still get better (tho Brown is closer to his ceiling).

If the Celts are still stuck in the same place 2 years from now, then I can see them making a move for the sake of shaking things up. For now, there is no need to trade him for the sake of saying they're doing things.

If the Knicks had Jaylen Brown, you guys wouldn't be looking for ways to trade him away unless a disgruntled superstar was coming in return.


The only way the Celtics trade Jaylen Brown to the Knicks is if Jayson Tatum insists on playing with RJ, his fellow Dukie... not happenin' lol...

Where do you guys get these trade ideas?
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#324 » by dc » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:27 am

ENYK wrote:The only way the Celtics trade Jaylen Brown to the Knicks is if Jayson Tatum insists on playing with RJ, his fellow Dukie... not happenin' lol...

Where do you guys get these trade ideas?


People get these ideas because the Celts had sort of a tumultuous season and they're obviously having changes with their coaching/front office, so maybe they were thinking of making major changes.

But they're not dumb. If Brown/Tatum were the same ages as Kawhi/PG13 and they appeared kind of stuck where they are, then yeah I could definitely see them moving at least one of those guys, but both guys are young and they have time to figure things out.

Not to mention Brown is signed for 3 more years on a team friendly deal, LOL. Absolutely no reason to trade a young player like that unless a superstar is coming back the other way.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#325 » by malik959 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:43 am

We’ve won games on defense all season and have been the worst offense all season. Having a non shooting point guard, an inconsistent 2 in Bullock, and a 5 that doesn’t shoot outside the paint does hurt a team. If we had C.A.T, Ball, and Norman Powell or Fournier than we can spread the floor more evenly with more consistent shooter to help relieve pressure.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#326 » by N8isScofield » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:45 am

BowlRips wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:RJ makes me uncomfortable for the simple fact that he's far too content to disappear for entire quarters or halves. I really want him to pan out but there's something very disconcerting about a guy who is clearly supposed to be the second option continually deferring like he's the 6th. We see tiny flashes of a dog in him where he's had some big quarters or halves but he very rarely puts together 4 quarters of good, assertive basketball and even at his young age it's concerning from a mentality standpoint.


People have described and analyzed RJ in many ways, but one thing I have not heard is that he is "content" and have questions about his "mentality".
Is he going to be a bonifide all-star? He is still a flawed prospect? Whats his true ceiling? These are legitimate qualms. His mentality is not one of them.

You seem to confuse mentality with work ethic and maturity. He's a great kid and I want him to work out. I have no questions about his character or willingness to work hard. That doesn't change the fact that he can be extremely passive and disappear for long stretches. You want all that hard work to translate into a more consistently assertive and aggressive mindset on the court. There's literally nothing to get your panties in a wad about in that observation. :lol:
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Re: The uncomfortable 

Post#327 » by BKlutch » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:48 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Fury wrote:
Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.
DeRozan was an open court dunker and athlete coming out of USC. He had a pullups game but it wasn't automatic. He had an okay straight line handle but not a tight spaces handle. He wasn't a creative or effective passer, either. He was more agile than RJ and limber but not so much more.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk


RJ less agile and limber than this guy:

Image

Maybe if we squirted some oil into RJ like into the Tin Man, he'd be more agile? Dunno, could Tin Man hit 3's?
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#328 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:15 am

Marty McFly wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:We really need a #1 option. Randle and RJ are good complimentary pieces


They're aren't any available and if Randle is extended the knicks will have even less flexibilty to get one in the future.

I would take chances on guys like Lavine or Sexton and see what they can do under Thibs. Also I don’t see how extending Randle gives us less flexibility to get one.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#329 » by ENYK » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:15 am

dc wrote:
ENYK wrote:The only way the Celtics trade Jaylen Brown to the Knicks is if Jayson Tatum insists on playing with RJ, his fellow Dukie... not happenin' lol...

Where do you guys get these trade ideas?


People get these ideas because the Celts had sort of a tumultuous season and they're obviously having changes with their coaching/front office, so maybe they were thinking of making major changes.

But they're not dumb. If Brown/Tatum were the same ages as Kawhi/PG13 and they appeared kind of stuck where they are, then yeah I could definitely see them moving at least one of those guys, but both guys are young and they have time to figure things out.

Not to mention Brown is signed for 3 more years on a team friendly deal, LOL. Absolutely no reason to trade a young player like that unless a superstar is coming back the other way.


Yeah, Brown is great and that Brown-Tatum tandem is no joke. They're just a few years and a good, non-Kemba, point guard away from being the 2nd best team in the East (depending on what happens with the Nets).

We'd be immensely fortunate if RJ takes that leap and develops into a Brown-like player.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#330 » by ENYK » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:18 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:We really need a #1 option. Randle and RJ are good complimentary pieces


They're aren't any available and if Randle is extended the knicks will have even less flexibilty to get one in the future.

I would take chances on guys like Lavine or Sexton and see what they can do under Thibs. Also I don’t see how extending Randle gives us less flexibility to get one.


I don't know how to feel about Lavine. The advanced stats say he's a net negative for his team... And the Knicks would definitely have to find ways to hide him on defense. That said, pre-CP3 Booker was subject to the same speculation...
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Re: The uncomfortable 

Post#331 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:23 am

BKlutch wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:DeRozan was an open court dunker and athlete coming out of USC. He had a pullups game but it wasn't automatic. He had an okay straight line handle but not a tight spaces handle. He wasn't a creative or effective passer, either. He was more agile than RJ and limber but not so much more.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk


RJ less agile and limber than this guy:

Image

Maybe if we squirted some oil into RJ like into the Tin Man, he'd be more agile? Dunno, could Tin Man hit 3's?


I think he was lacking the heart to take 3's
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#332 » by ENYK » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:24 am

N8isScofield wrote:
BowlRips wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:RJ makes me uncomfortable for the simple fact that he's far too content to disappear for entire quarters or halves. I really want him to pan out but there's something very disconcerting about a guy who is clearly supposed to be the second option continually deferring like he's the 6th. We see tiny flashes of a dog in him where he's had some big quarters or halves but he very rarely puts together 4 quarters of good, assertive basketball and even at his young age it's concerning from a mentality standpoint.


People have described and analyzed RJ in many ways, but one thing I have not heard is that he is "content" and have questions about his "mentality".
Is he going to be a bonifide all-star? He is still a flawed prospect? Whats his true ceiling? These are legitimate qualms. His mentality is not one of them.

You seem to confuse mentality with work ethic and maturity. He's a great kid and I want him to work out. I have no questions about his character or willingness to work hard. That doesn't change the fact that he can be extremely passive and disappear for long stretches. You want all that hard work to translate into a more consistently assertive and aggressive mindset on the court. There's literally nothing to get your panties in a wad about in that observation. :lol:


I don't even think it's passivity. He clearly has the work ethic to improve... He worked on his spot up outside shooting. He's now very effective with that, especially from the corner.

He's just so limited in terms of speed and athleticism. He plays a position that is all about foot speed, agility, and explosiveness in the modern NBA... and his drives, getting to his spots, it just all looks so painfully slow.

The only way to compensate for the physical limitations would be if he had Luka/Harden level skill and craftiness, but he doesn't and I don't see how a player develops that through hard work. Those guys are just unique basketball minds and talents.

He's a serviceable starter/role player, and the sooner the fanbase, media and FO resign themselves to that, the better.

Although as a Knicks fan I partially hope my rational self is completely wrong on this lol.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#333 » by Ghetto Gospel » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:25 am

ENYK wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
They're aren't any available and if Randle is extended the knicks will have even less flexibilty to get one in the future.

I would take chances on guys like Lavine or Sexton and see what they can do under Thibs. Also I don’t see how extending Randle gives us less flexibility to get one.


I don't know how to feel about Lavine. The advanced stats say he's a net negative for his team... And the Knicks would definitely have to find ways to hide him on defense. That said, pre-CP3 Booker was subject to the same speculation...


which advanced stats are you looking at? i just took a quick look and they have him as a net positive on his team thanks to his offense. his defense isn't so bad that he needs to be hidden. it does however force RJ to guard the opposing teams best wing player which is a bit concerning but hopefully his defense improves over the summer
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Re: The uncomfortable 

Post#334 » by BKlutch » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:36 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
RJ less agile and limber than this guy:

Image

Maybe if we squirted some oil into RJ like into the Tin Man, he'd be more agile? Dunno, could Tin Man hit 3's?


I think he was lacking the heart to take 3's

Not fair! That's a Straw Man argument.
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Re: The uncomfortable 

Post#335 » by BKlutch » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:38 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
RJ less agile and limber than this guy:

Image

Maybe if we squirted some oil into RJ like into the Tin Man, he'd be more agile? Dunno, could Tin Man hit 3's?


I think he was lacking the heart to take 3's

Yeah, what a loser. Hope Dorothy ditched him.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#336 » by BugginOut » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:41 am

Knicks fans never root for their own players. It’s one of the reasons no one wants to play here, our players don’t get love.

It happened to Pat, it happened to Melo and now it’s happening to Randle
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#337 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:42 am

Ghetto Gospel wrote:
ENYK wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I would take chances on guys like Lavine or Sexton and see what they can do under Thibs. Also I don’t see how extending Randle gives us less flexibility to get one.


I don't know how to feel about Lavine. The advanced stats say he's a net negative for his team... And the Knicks would definitely have to find ways to hide him on defense. That said, pre-CP3 Booker was subject to the same speculation...


which advanced stats are you looking at? i just took a quick look and they have him as a net positive on his team thanks to his offense. his defense isn't so bad that he needs to be hidden. it does however force RJ to guard the opposing teams best wing player which is a bit concerning but hopefully his defense improves over the summer

Yeah, there's no advanced stat that really paints anybody as a net positive or a net negative without taking context into consideration...

Lavine is an elite scorer in the NBA. Not just in terms of volume but also in terms of efficiency. His scoring efficiency is on par with the best players in the NBA. It's defense and more importantly decision-making where he's lacking, and he's never had the opportunity to play with a half-decent point guard or playmaker in his entire NBA career besides Ricky Rubio his first couple of years in the league, and Rubio's not exactly a Hall-of-Famer.

Put Lavine on a good team with some playmakers and a solid defensive identity, and he's taking off.

Lavine is a special talent, but he's more of a ceiling raiser than a floor raiser.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#338 » by Marty McFly » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:56 am

BugginOut wrote:Knicks fans never root for their own players. It’s one of the reasons no one wants to play here, our players don’t get love.

It happened to Pat, it happened to Melo and now it’s happening to Randle


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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#339 » by Marty McFly » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:03 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:We really need a #1 option. Randle and RJ are good complimentary pieces


They're aren't any available and if Randle is extended the knicks will have even less flexibilty to get one in the future.

I would take chances on guys like Lavine or Sexton and see what they can do under Thibs. Also I don’t see how extending Randle gives us less flexibility to get one.


RJ has a QO in two years. I don't think that's enough for the knicks to find at 1st option before you start paying your second and third options 20+ million a year.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#340 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 am

BugginOut wrote:Knicks fans never root for their own players. It’s one of the reasons no one wants to play here, our players don’t get love.

It happened to Pat, it happened to Melo and now it’s happening to Randle

Randle had below-average scoring efficiency in a career year and - if we're being honest - completely wet the bed in the playoffs.

Julius is not anywhere NEAR Pat or Melo as a player, and he's eligible for a max extension this summer (or next).

We can appreciate all the positives he brought to this moribund franchise this past season and still question whether or not he can be part of the long-term solution. This situation reminds me of Amar'e, without the injury concerns.

I personally don't blame Randle for our playoff exit fyi, and I don't think his performance against Atlanta is a reflection of who he is as a player. But it exposed some concerning weaknesses that deserve to be put under a microscope ahead of his extension imo.
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