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The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#381 » by cgf » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:10 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Zion is our most obvious pathway to a championship with his friend RJ already on the team.

I think that's the most important window of opportunity to prepare for as far as our future is concerned.


great, now i gotta watch rj for the next 6 years for the hope that zion comes after that.

Yes.

But then again he won't come so it'll all have been for nothing.

It's like edging.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#382 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:13 am

cgf wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
great, now i gotta watch rj for the next 6 years for the hope that zion comes after that.

Yes.

But then again he won't come so it'll all have been for nothing.

It's like edging.

I didn't know there was a word for it. I just assumed I was a genius.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#383 » by N8isScofield » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:01 am

ENYK wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
BowlRips wrote:
People have described and analyzed RJ in many ways, but one thing I have not heard is that he is "content" and have questions about his "mentality".
Is he going to be a bonifide all-star? He is still a flawed prospect? Whats his true ceiling? These are legitimate qualms. His mentality is not one of them.

You seem to confuse mentality with work ethic and maturity. He's a great kid and I want him to work out. I have no questions about his character or willingness to work hard. That doesn't change the fact that he can be extremely passive and disappear for long stretches. You want all that hard work to translate into a more consistently assertive and aggressive mindset on the court. There's literally nothing to get your panties in a wad about in that observation. :lol:


I don't even think it's passivity. He clearly has the work ethic to improve... He worked on his spot up outside shooting. He's now very effective with that, especially from the corner.

He's just so limited in terms of speed and athleticism. He plays a position that is all about foot speed, agility, and explosiveness in the modern NBA... and his drives, getting to his spots, it just all looks so painfully slow.

The only way to compensate for the physical limitations would be if he had Luka/Harden level skill and craftiness, but he doesn't and I don't see how a player develops that through hard work. Those guys are just unique basketball minds and talents.

He's a serviceable starter/role player, and the sooner the fanbase, media and FO resign themselves to that, the better.

Although as a Knicks fan I partially hope my rational self is completely wrong on this lol.

I agree that he lacks the crazy athletic ability and he's nowhere near as crafty as Luka or Harden but he's actually pretty decent at using his body and changing pace to get to the rim. He does that pretty reliably when he wants to assert himself. Where he's really limited is that he has no jump shot off the dribble. The spot up shooting has improved but he's useless as a scorer if he can't spot up or get to the rim. He has no inbetween game and no ability to step back like Harden or Luka. I do think this is something he can work on and improve significantly at but in the mean time I would like to see him be more assertive in the things he does well. That's something he could be doing now. The Hawks series was actually a great opportunity for him to look at how badly things were going for Randle and look to do the things he does well to pick up the slack. Instead he became the bad RJ that we've seen put up zero point halves by shying away from the ball. That's no good.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#384 » by Spree2Houston » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:18 am

god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

We're seeing the difference between a superstar and what Randle is with how Embiid has the Hawks looking completely helpless to guard him.

People also disregard teams like the Hornets for some reason, they have more talent than us to begin with and they're adding more. They get even a halfway decent center and they could pass us up too.

True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers, which is why they need to go all in for Lavine if the Bulls are listening to offers.


we need to tank again


Next year’s class sucks.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#385 » by Oscirus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:23 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Im not sure that people realize how top heavy the east is. Barring injury or extreme improvements the best we can hope for with everything going right is top 4



We're seeing the difference between a superstar and what Randle is with how Embiid has the Hawks looking completely helpless to guard him.

People also disregard teams like the Hornets for some reason, they have more talent than us to begin with and they're adding more. They get even a halfway decent center and they could pass us up too.

True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.

Numbers out of context are just that. Not only are most os those all stars/ cusp all stars, but they also have way better support systems then the knicks. Remove the three you highlighted and the two journeyman sfs and the lou williams clone and the knicks have jack ****.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#386 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:25 am

Spree2Houston wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers, which is why they need to go all in for Lavine if the Bulls are listening to offers.


we need to tank again


Next year’s class sucks.



Ty Ty Washington looks like what we need.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#387 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:29 am

Oscirus wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

We're seeing the difference between a superstar and what Randle is with how Embiid has the Hawks looking completely helpless to guard him.

People also disregard teams like the Hornets for some reason, they have more talent than us to begin with and they're adding more. They get even a halfway decent center and they could pass us up too.

True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.

Numbers out of context are just that. Not only are most os those all stars/ cusp all stars, but they also have way better support systems then the knicks. Remove the three you highlighted and the two journeyman sfs and the lou williams clone and the knicks have jack ****.

The context is pretty self-evident.

Our best players are not efficient. The lead players for the top 4 teams in the East are all efficient. The offense runs through them, yet they manage to still be efficient. Our best players don't manage to do that. That puts a ceiling on our offensive efficiency as a team, hence inevitably a ceiling in terms of wins and losses.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#388 » by Oscirus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:33 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.

Numbers out of context are just that. Not only are most os those all stars/ cusp all stars, but they also have way better support systems then the knicks. Remove the three you highlighted and the two journeyman sfs and the lou williams clone and the knicks have jack ****.

The context is pretty self-evident.

Our best players are not efficient. The lead players for the top 4 teams in the East are all efficient. The offense runs through them, yet they manage to still be efficient. Our best players don't manage to do that. That puts a ceiling on our offensive efficiency as a team, hence inevitably a ceiling in terms of wins and losses.

Compare the supporting cast nd I can guarantee that they get better quality shots. I wont deny that the players highlighted are better than ours, doesnt change the fact that our supporting cast this year hurt us big time
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#389 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:41 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.

Numbers out of context are just that. Not only are most os those all stars/ cusp all stars, but they also have way better support systems then the knicks. Remove the three you highlighted and the two journeyman sfs and the lou williams clone and the knicks have jack ****.

The context is pretty self-evident.

Our best players are not efficient. The lead players for the top 4 teams in the East are all efficient. The offense runs through them, yet they manage to still be efficient. Our best players don't manage to do that. That puts a ceiling on our offensive efficiency as a team, hence inevitably a ceiling in terms of wins and losses.



The problem is Randle, we can sugarcoat it all we want, but the offense funneling through him so much shows up in passes per game where we ranked 22nd in the league, and when you combine that with shot clock usage it's really just ugly. Almost a quarter of our total shots came late (10.5%) to very late (10.4%) in the shot clock, meaning the ball isn't moving and when it finally does it's only doing so because the clock is winding down. We also have two players in RJ & Mitch who should be playing a two man game in the screen and roll, their numbers suggest it would be a very good pairing, but we never really run it for them.

We have a stand and watch Julius offense as though he were Luka, LeBron or Harden, and he dominates the ball at such an obscene level that he had more touches per game than Embiid, Dame, Curry, LaVine etc and a bunch of other monster players. I guarantee you that if we started Obi in place of Randle our offense as a whole would improve just because the ball would move around more, even if Obi's individual numbers don't show it. The ability to just get out the way to the space the floor, or make a timely cut and play off the ball would go a long way.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#390 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:48 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Numbers out of context are just that. Not only are most os those all stars/ cusp all stars, but they also have way better support systems then the knicks. Remove the three you highlighted and the two journeyman sfs and the lou williams clone and the knicks have jack ****.

The context is pretty self-evident.

Our best players are not efficient. The lead players for the top 4 teams in the East are all efficient. The offense runs through them, yet they manage to still be efficient. Our best players don't manage to do that. That puts a ceiling on our offensive efficiency as a team, hence inevitably a ceiling in terms of wins and losses.



The problem is Randle, we can sugarcoat it all we want, but the offense funneling through him so much shows up in passes per game where we ranked 22nd in the league, and when you combine that with shot clock usage it's really just ugly. Almost a quarter of our total shots came late (10.5%) to very late (10.4%) in the shot clock, meaning the ball isn't moving and when it finally does it's only doing so because the clock is winding down. We also have two players in RJ & Mitch who should be playing a two man game in the screen and roll, their numbers suggest it would be a very good pairing, but we never really run it for them.

We have a stand and watch Julius offense as though he were Luka, LeBron or Harden, and he dominates the ball at such an obscene level that he had more touches per game than Embiid, Dame, Curry, LaVine etc and a bunch of other monster players. I guarantee you that if we started Obi in place of Randle our offense as a whole would improve just because the ball would move around more, even if Obi's individual numbers don't show it. The ability to just get out the way to the space the floor, or make a timely cut and play off the ball would go a long way.

There's value in having a player who can create his own shot at the end of the shotclock like Julius though. Neither Obi, RJ or Mitch can create his own shot, so you would see that line-up struggle to get points imo. The Knicks also got a bunch of points off of Randle's playmaking, which was unlocked by the threat of his scoring.

But yeah realistically Julius isn't good enough to warrant having that many touches, or - and perhaps more importantly - holding on to the ball for so long. One has to wonder how he would adapt to a #2 role on a winning team, since having fewer touches would probably negate his best skill (his passing) to some extent.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#391 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:03 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The context is pretty self-evident.

Our best players are not efficient. The lead players for the top 4 teams in the East are all efficient. The offense runs through them, yet they manage to still be efficient. Our best players don't manage to do that. That puts a ceiling on our offensive efficiency as a team, hence inevitably a ceiling in terms of wins and losses.



The problem is Randle, we can sugarcoat it all we want, but the offense funneling through him so much shows up in passes per game where we ranked 22nd in the league, and when you combine that with shot clock usage it's really just ugly. Almost a quarter of our total shots came late (10.5%) to very late (10.4%) in the shot clock, meaning the ball isn't moving and when it finally does it's only doing so because the clock is winding down. We also have two players in RJ & Mitch who should be playing a two man game in the screen and roll, their numbers suggest it would be a very good pairing, but we never really run it for them.

We have a stand and watch Julius offense as though he were Luka, LeBron or Harden, and he dominates the ball at such an obscene level that he had more touches per game than Embiid, Dame, Curry, LaVine etc and a bunch of other monster players. I guarantee you that if we started Obi in place of Randle our offense as a whole would improve just because the ball would move around more, even if Obi's individual numbers don't show it. The ability to just get out the way to the space the floor, or make a timely cut and play off the ball would go a long way.

There's value in having a player who can create his own shot at the end of the shotclock like Julius though. Neither Obi, RJ or Mitch can create his own shot, so you would see that line-up struggle to get points imo. The Knicks also got a bunch of points off of Randle's playmaking, which was unlocked by the threat of his scoring.

But yeah realistically Julius isn't good enough to warrant having that many touches, or - and perhaps more importantly - holding on to the ball for so long. One has to wonder how he would adapt to a #2 role on a winning team, since having fewer touches would probably negate his best skill (his passing) to some extent.



The points the Knicks get off Randle aren't from ball movement, they're just plays where he drives and if he doesn't have it he kicks it out late and the person catching has very little options other than to shoot, the other play is the DHO between him and Bullock. There's a benefit to isolation scorers, but it's not like he was elite at that either, he was in the 58th percentile on the season, we had a great defense that could mask his wasted possessions, but in the playoffs it was mask off.


His offense is more suited to coming off the bench and being the hub of that, I don't think he can be a number 2, it's not like he's an efficient scorer when you break down his numbers in conjunction with touches. Guys like LaVine & Beal don't touch the ball as much as him and aren't as involved in every possession as he is, yet they both score more than him. I'm not saying RJ is a number 2, but I have a lot more faith in him being able to be someone who can score within the flow of an offense without needed to dominate the ball. Guys like Randle aren't in the flow of an offense guys, with Randle on the court could you ever see us having an offense with the ball whipping around like the Jazz? I just can't see it, and we opened Pandora's box empowering him this year.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#392 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:26 am

Marty McFly wrote:
BugginOut wrote:Knicks fans never root for their own players. It’s one of the reasons no one wants to play here, our players don’t get love.

It happened to Pat, it happened to Melo and now it’s happening to Randle


Cap.
Only semi. Fans lose patience quite quickly. Ewing hated the fans. Melo ... not sure. Julius won't get a long leash.

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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#393 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:33 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
NewKnicks wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
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Haha. Obviously I meant Malik. It's late. I do miss Michael, tho.


:D I know you did. If you're going to lose games, you got a have at least one colorful character on your team. I, for one, will be forever grateful for the beatdown he put on Melo on his first return to the Garden with OKC. Especially since Greenie was still with us back then. I thoroughly enjoyed watching her eat crow. (I betcha that was a good wake-up call for Melo which - eventually - precipitated the evolution of his game. And, in all seriousness, I was happy to see an old man make the necessary adjustments to become a more team-oriented player. Of course, it never happens when the player is with US.

Beas was kind like Free Candy, except better.

Vernon Maxwell comes to mind. Maybe he was before your time.
Mad Max going into the stands and throwing weights at teammates.

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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#394 » by Buttah304 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:31 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Im not sure that people realize how top heavy the east is. Barring injury or extreme improvements the best we can hope for with everything going right is top 4



We're seeing the difference between a superstar and what Randle is with how Embiid has the Hawks looking completely helpless to guard him.

People also disregard teams like the Hornets for some reason, they have more talent than us to begin with and they're adding more. They get even a halfway decent center and they could pass us up too.

True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.


DeRozan 2019-2020: 60.1 TS%
DeRozan 2020-2021: 59.3 TS%

This has the making of an M Night movie doesn’t it
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Re: The uncomfortable 

Post#395 » by Marty McFly » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:32 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Marty McFly wrote:
BugginOut wrote:Knicks fans never root for their own players. It’s one of the reasons no one wants to play here, our players don’t get love.

It happened to Pat, it happened to Melo and now it’s happening to Randle


Cap.
Only semi. Fans lose patience quite quickly. Ewing hated the fans. Melo ... not sure. Julius won't get a long leash.

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Ewing hated the fans since Georgetown. Melo was just the lighting rod for the FO. and Julius definitely won't if he's our number 1 option for sure.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#396 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 am

N8isScofield wrote:
ENYK wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:You seem to confuse mentality with work ethic and maturity. He's a great kid and I want him to work out. I have no questions about his character or willingness to work hard. That doesn't change the fact that he can be extremely passive and disappear for long stretches. You want all that hard work to translate into a more consistently assertive and aggressive mindset on the court. There's literally nothing to get your panties in a wad about in that observation. :lol:


I don't even think it's passivity. He clearly has the work ethic to improve... He worked on his spot up outside shooting. He's now very effective with that, especially from the corner.

He's just so limited in terms of speed and athleticism. He plays a position that is all about foot speed, agility, and explosiveness in the modern NBA... and his drives, getting to his spots, it just all looks so painfully slow.

The only way to compensate for the physical limitations would be if he had Luka/Harden level skill and craftiness, but he doesn't and I don't see how a player develops that through hard work. Those guys are just unique basketball minds and talents.

He's a serviceable starter/role player, and the sooner the fanbase, media and FO resign themselves to that, the better.

Although as a Knicks fan I partially hope my rational self is completely wrong on this lol.

I agree that he lacks the crazy athletic ability and he's nowhere near as crafty as Luka or Harden but he's actually pretty decent at using his body and changing pace to get to the rim. He does that pretty reliably when he wants to assert himself. Where he's really limited is that he has no jump shot off the dribble. The spot up shooting has improved but he's useless as a scorer if he can't spot up or get to the rim. He has no inbetween game and no ability to step back like Harden or Luka. I do think this is something he can work on and improve significantly at but in the mean time I would like to see him be more assertive in the things he does well. That's something he could be doing now. The Hawks series was actually a great opportunity for him to look at how badly things were going for Randle and look to do the things he does well to pick up the slack. Instead he became the bad RJ that we've seen put up zero point halves by shying away from the ball. That's no good.


He does have that ability to change speeds to get himself into the lane, but once he gets there he seems to lack that second burst to explode at the rim. He has to either use his body to bully the other player out of the way, which he did well most of the season, or he has to use his BBIQ to find angles, which he is also adept at doing at times. It seems to me that he's missing that extra sizzle to his offensive game.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#397 » by N8isScofield » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
N8isScofield wrote:
ENYK wrote:
I don't even think it's passivity. He clearly has the work ethic to improve... He worked on his spot up outside shooting. He's now very effective with that, especially from the corner.

He's just so limited in terms of speed and athleticism. He plays a position that is all about foot speed, agility, and explosiveness in the modern NBA... and his drives, getting to his spots, it just all looks so painfully slow.

The only way to compensate for the physical limitations would be if he had Luka/Harden level skill and craftiness, but he doesn't and I don't see how a player develops that through hard work. Those guys are just unique basketball minds and talents.

He's a serviceable starter/role player, and the sooner the fanbase, media and FO resign themselves to that, the better.

Although as a Knicks fan I partially hope my rational self is completely wrong on this lol.

I agree that he lacks the crazy athletic ability and he's nowhere near as crafty as Luka or Harden but he's actually pretty decent at using his body and changing pace to get to the rim. He does that pretty reliably when he wants to assert himself. Where he's really limited is that he has no jump shot off the dribble. The spot up shooting has improved but he's useless as a scorer if he can't spot up or get to the rim. He has no inbetween game and no ability to step back like Harden or Luka. I do think this is something he can work on and improve significantly at but in the mean time I would like to see him be more assertive in the things he does well. That's something he could be doing now. The Hawks series was actually a great opportunity for him to look at how badly things were going for Randle and look to do the things he does well to pick up the slack. Instead he became the bad RJ that we've seen put up zero point halves by shying away from the ball. That's no good.


He does have that ability to change speeds to get himself into the lane, but once he gets there he seems to lack that second burst to explode at the rim. He has to either use his body to bully the other player out of the way, which he did well most of the season, or he has to use his BBIQ to find angles, which he is also adept at doing at times. It seems to me that he's missing that extra sizzle to his offensive game.

Agreed but I don't think he's less athletic than someone like Harden. He's less skilled but you can work on skills. I would love it if he'd seek Harden out in the offseason and see if he's amenable to working out together. Before anyone loses their mind, I'm not saying he can become Harden but for me that's the guy who is the template for what is possible without elite athleticism or just unnatural shot making ability like what Steph possesses. RJ should be seeking to become whatever percentage of James Harden he can. I know in interviews with his skills coach they've talked about their philosophy being to focus on one thing per offseason to hone it as much as possible rather than devoting less attention to multiple things so I hope this offseason there's a focus on getting the shooting percentage off the dribble up so that guys can't just sit on the drive. It's easy to defend a guy with no inbetween game if he's just ok at driving, spotting up or both. I would like to see RJ add that extra layer to his scoring repertoire to make up for what he lacks in terms of raw, freak athleticism or truly special shooting.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#398 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:11 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Im not sure that people realize how top heavy the east is. Barring injury or extreme improvements the best we can hope for with everything going right is top 4



We're seeing the difference between a superstar and what Randle is with how Embiid has the Hawks looking completely helpless to guard him.

People also disregard teams like the Hornets for some reason, they have more talent than us to begin with and they're adding more. They get even a halfway decent center and they could pass us up too.

True shooting percentage this past regular season:

Sixers: Embiid 63.6%, Simmons 58.4%, Harris 59.7%
Nets. Durant 66.6% (think it's a coincidence if you want to), Harden 61.9%, Irving 61.4%
Bucks: Antetokounmpo 63.3%, Holiday 59.2%, Middleton 58.8%
Hawks: Young 58.9%, Bogdanovic 61.6%

ALL above league average (57.2%) in scoring efficiency. ALL of them.

Now look at the Knicks:
Randle 56.7% BELOW AVERAGE
Barrett 53.5% BELOW AVERAGE
Rose 56.5% BELOW AVERAGE

This is very sad and very concerning. Just don't be surprised when the Knicks miss the playoffs next year. We do not have the foundation to compete with any of these teams, let alone when the Knicks regress to the mean.

We need more efficient scorers.


Embiid is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most talented player in the NBA. SImmons and Harris would both be, at least, the 2nd most talented player on the Knicks.
Durant had Harden AND Irving, Harden had Durant and Irving, Irving had Durant and Harden. Any of these 3 guys would be without question the best player on this team.
Greek Freak is arguably the 2nd or 3rd most talented player in the NBA. Holiday and Middleton would both be the 2nd most talented player on the Knicks.
Young is one of the most efficient volume scorers in the NBA and had a team that was built by the same architect that built the record breaking Warriors championship teams, a team that accentuated his strengths and hid his weaknesses about as well as you possibly can.

We need more talent. It's easy to be more efficient if you actually can get the ball in better shooting situations, not have the opposing teams thrown 3 guys at you every time you touch the ball cause you don't have to worry about the other players on the team and when you just have more other guys on the team that are just way way better.

You take any of those guys and put them on the Knicks and my guess is that everyone else would become more efficient on offense cause everyone else then don't need to be relied upon to do more than they should be relied upon offensively.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#399 » by Kampuchea » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:18 pm

Wait? Randle and RJ aren't as efficient as the best players in the NBA or as players on stacked teams? That is amazing.
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Re: The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ) 

Post#400 » by DaGawd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:20 pm


RJ the least efficient in the paint lol
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