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What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox?

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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#21 » by spree8 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:40 pm

Ray Williams wrote:Revisionist history, nobody was asking for us to draft DM, everybody wanted DSJ. All of a sudden, everyone wanted Mitchell now.



I remember there was a good amount of people on this board that wanted to draft him ahead of the other top players. Certainly not the majority, but def enough worth mentioning.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#22 » by TwitterFingers » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:44 pm

Ray Williams wrote:Revisionist history, nobody was asking for us to draft DM, everybody wanted DSJ. All of a sudden, everyone wanted Mitchell now.


The fans may have wanted DSJ, but we weren’t likely to draft him because his handlers weren’t transparent with his medical enough to our satisfaction.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#23 » by spree8 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:53 pm

As for the OP, yeah, KP probably would’ve stayed and we wouldn’t have been able to draft MPJr since DMitch broke out his rookie year (too bad Phil fell asleep) and KP was an All-Star… likely land in the Huerter-DiVincenzo range instead. 2019 there’s no RJ and we probably draft any one of the bums picked outside the top 14.

Who knows how we would’ve rounded out the roster after 2018. Doubt Randle would be here too with KP around.


???
Donovan Mitchell | Huerter or DiVincenzo
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Kristaps Porzingis
Mitchell Robinson



Where we really went wrong was not trading KP in 2017 when Phil wanted to. Dolan is phucked for that. I was calling for trading that dude since even before then… likened watchin him play to watching Shawn Bradley trying to play like Kevin Durant… accident waiting to happen. I’ll never forget the offers on the table…

Ben Simmons & #3 for KP & #8

Or

Devin Booker & #4 for KP & #8


Or

Jaylen Brown & #1 for KP


:noway:
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#24 » by moocow007 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:09 pm

iLLmatic860 wrote:Donavon Mitchell
Rj Barrett
Michae Porter Jr
Juluis Randle
Mitchell Robinson

6th Man
Tyrese Hali

Obviously our roster will prob look different but I can still dream lol


It's actually funny that if you talk about those 2 guys it's almost like repeating Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas all over again. Frank would have been the perfect Scott Layden pick (all substance no talent) and Knox the perfect Isiah Thomas pick (all talent no substance).

But I digress. As far as the Knicks picking Donovan Mitchell?

It's funny that vast majority of this board wanted Frank cause of his supposed higher potential as a true point guard. Not being a true point guard was something that a lot of folks had against Mitchell. And to be honest, as a big Louisville fan Mitchell's ability to run an NBA offense was definitely a concern for me as well. So would they have picked him instead? Yeah I don't know about that. The reality is that Mitchell turned out to be one of those rare players who does better in the NBA than he did in college. Hard to predict.

In all likelihood and based on reports the Knicks front office other than Phil Jackson was leaning towards Dennis Smith Jr so I seriously doubt they would have drafted Mitchell (or Bam or any of the other few hindsight guys). Malik Monk was the only other name that really got brought up in the rumor mill. And none of those 3 likely guys have done anything.

Now as far as Knox and 2018?

Sure SGA should have been the guy in hindsight but honestly his name wasn't really mentioned much at all in Knick rumor circles. The Knicks had just drafted their "PG of the future" (lol...see previous section) and the notion was that they were looking at Mikal Bridges as the most likely target up until the 11th hour when they went with Knox on account of his shooting potential and upside...and...well...the rumored Kentucky connection that had been attached to the Knicks well before the latest front office took control.

If it wasn't Knox it likely would have been Mikal Bridges. Better than Knox? For sure. But a foundation player? Not really.

What the above shows isn't so much that the Knicks can't draft, it's that even a lottery pick is a highly risky asset. The Knicks weren't the only team that passed on Mitchell. You can argue that 11 or 12 other teams also made that same mistake. SGA in 2018? 7 or 8 teams made the same mistake including at least 5 teams that picked before the Knicks did.

That's why if you get a chance at a sure thing (even if it costs more $ or assets to get) it may actually still make a lot more sense than rolling the lottery pick dice.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#25 » by dc » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:29 pm

Mitchell is basically a small SG that can be a playmaker in many instances.

But at then end of the day, he's a small guard. That's a strike against him in Phil Jackson's book. Phil preferred big guards. He thought of smaller guards as role players (Kerr, Paxson, Fisher).
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#26 » by ABOVE_THE_RIM » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:09 pm

-Dennis Smith Jr would have been the pick but I REALLY wanted Donovan Mitchell.
-Michael Porter Jr was the obvious pick.
-2019 if we couldn’t land Morrant or Zion I wanted to trade back for ATL’s 2 first round picks and take Cam Reddish & Hachimura.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#27 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 am

ABOVE_THE_RIM wrote:-Dennis Smith Jr would have been the pick but I REALLY wanted Donovan Mitchell.
-Michael Porter Jr was the obvious pick.
-2019 if we couldn’t land Morrant or Zion I wanted to trade back for ATL’s 2 first round picks and take Cam Reddish & Hachimura.

Let's be honest. Frank was a better pick than DSJ and a good choice for best player available. Spida wasn't in the frame - but, ldo would, so far, have been more useful.

On the other hand, MagaPJr was obviously a better hit-for-the-fence pick than Knox. It's not a top 3 pick - just aim for the max. I suppose the 1st-all-black FO went for a limited version of that, where they weren't prepared to risk their employment futures on risky medical reports. However that was a big mistake. Obv, Thibs makes it look worse than it probably really was.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#28 » by aggo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:18 am

if we did the right thing we could be in a very powerful position by actually being able to offer a team

Miles Bridges
or
Mikal Bridges

+ frps


for a star.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#29 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:45 pm

dc wrote:Mitchell is basically a small SG that can be a playmaker in many instances.

But at then end of the day, he's a small guard. That's a strike against him in Phil Jackson's book. Phil preferred big guards. He thought of smaller guards as role players (Kerr, Paxson, Fisher).
Even at Louisville Mitchell showed flashes of NBA team running. The shorter shot clock, space and reliance on pick and roll means the athletic scorer will flourish as a pg in the league. Westbrook, Mitchell, SGA ... these types make the leap out of college.

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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#30 » by spree2kawhi » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:54 pm

Let's be real:
We'd have drafted DSJ instead of Frank and Mikal Bridges instead of Knox.

DSJ
RJ
Bridges
Randle
Mitch

I don't know. It's pointless. People here were on record celebrating Bridges as a bust. Now what?
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#31 » by br7knicks » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:22 pm

spree8 wrote:
Ray Williams wrote:Revisionist history, nobody was asking for us to draft DM, everybody wanted DSJ. All of a sudden, everyone wanted Mitchell now.



I remember there was a good amount of people on this board that wanted to draft him ahead of the other top players. Certainly not the majority, but def enough worth mentioning.



Go back to that draft thread, and I am on record saying Mitchell


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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#32 » by Oscirus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:55 pm

We were never going to draft mpj. Only a tanking team or a team like the nuggets could afford to draft him since he could barely even walk on draft day
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#33 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:12 pm

At one point I said Mitchell > Frank pre draft but DSJ was still my guy so I can’t say anything lol
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#34 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:38 pm

Mitchell's big calling cards at Louisville was his defense and big shot ability (both of which were absolutely elite). He really didn't look like what you would imagine an NBA PG to look like and his shooting was no good. To many it was hard to peg what his role would be in the NBA and there were enough people that thought he would struggle finding a role in the NBA other than a short SG that couldn't shoot. What scouts didn't pick up on with Mitchell was the same type intangibles that guys like Jimmy Butler had that more than can make up for their lack of a specific projection in NBA terms.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#35 » by ellobo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:36 pm

spree8 wrote:
Ray Williams wrote:Revisionist history, nobody was asking for us to draft DM, everybody wanted DSJ. All of a sudden, everyone wanted Mitchell now.



I remember there was a good amount of people on this board that wanted to draft him ahead of the other top players. Certainly not the majority, but def enough worth mentioning.


I wasn't that familiar with Mitchell, but I remember reading a lot of buzz from all kinds of media sources about him really being good and how he would be the steal of the draft -- the kind of thing you read and think, "Well, if people really think that then why isn't he going earlier?"

On the other hand, I was all in on SGA. To me, that was not only the obvious smart pick, but also a guy I just love to watch play and would love to watch and root for on my team. I wanted no part of Michael Porter Jr. due to health. I was convinced he would never play NBA basketball, but I would still take SGA over him today. Mikal Bridges I would have been okay with as a high-floor role-player with no star potential.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#36 » by aggo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:49 pm

you cant fualt anyone for passing on MPJ.

it was a medical issue
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#37 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:52 pm

aggo wrote:you cant fualt anyone for passing on MPJ.

it was a medical issue


Yeah that's kinda true. The Nuggets didn't have a need for anyone in the draft at that time so they could afford to basically use it on a gamble and if it doesn't work no big deal.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#38 » by Nazrmohamed » Yesterday 1:51 am

Let's face it. Had we not signed Frank everybody else wanted DSJ who did make second team all rookie. How'd we end up with both and both sucked? SmH

As for Knox, I was all over the Bridges bros that yr and wouldn't have drafted MPJ anyway.

Last draft I was all about Haliburton and Tyler Bey
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#39 » by frothbrain » Yesterday 2:00 am

Scott Perry is still the Knicks GM enjoy the next bust this summer.
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Re: What if we never drafted Frank and Kevin Knox? 

Post#40 » by NewKnicks » Yesterday 2:34 am

K-DOT wrote:If we didn't draft Frank, we would've taken DSJ or Malik Monk

I also don't think we'd have taken MPJ, much more likely Miles or Mikal Bridges. Outside shot we take SGA

Depending on who was making the decisions at the time. You have to go back to how people looked at them as prospects, not using hindsight knowing how the guys that we passed on turned out. It's a similar situation to why I don't blame the Cavs for not taking Giannis 1st in 2013 (cause that would not have been a realistic pick, no matter who was in charge), but you can blame Minny for picking Shabazz Muhammed one pick ahead of him

But going off the premise of this thread, if we take D Mitch, we're not picking in the top 10 (even assuming KP still gets injured), and likely he's enough to carry us to the playoffs the rest of the way. So good news we can't pick Knox, but at the same time, we pick too far back to take MPJ or SGA. And we're certainly not bad enough to draft RJ in 2019, again likely we make the playoffs with D Mitch, or at least come close. This also might change KP's mind, make him want to stay, so we either bring him back, or trade him for a different package (remember, we traded him to Dallas without shopping him around, so we might have gotten a better deal) so good odds no Randle, no Morris (and no Quick trade), and maybe even no Thibs

Roster probably looks more like

Some PG (too many variables to determine)
D Mitch
THJ
KP
Mitch Rob (assuming no injury)


I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly, but are you saying that we should not blame the Knicks front office for drafting Frank and Knox? If so, why not? Who else is to blame? Don't you expect more from your team's front office? They could have EASILY drafted any of those players on the list, and they should have. Hindsight is irrelevant. That's why you have scouting departments in the first place. To draft the right players that are available. But we're the Knicks, so we draft Knox and Frank instead.

If I read your post wrong, then I apologize.

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