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New York Yankees Thread

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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#301 » by KnicksGadfly » Fri Oct 8, 2021 12:06 pm

ccvle wrote:My point wasnt trying to cherry pick names but just to point out that most of the free agent signing ended up being pretty bad that it is hard to find names that you say "fk I wish the Yankees spent money to get him". Yes, there are a Charlie morton and Zach wheeler here and there every year but there are alot more names that Im gald we didn't get. I'm not trying to defend every one of Yankees decision as I agree there were many bad ones, just that I don't believe being cheap is the number One issue.


I agree. Cheapness isn’t the main thing. I just think it’s a reflection of ownership’s will to win. I’m getting Sarver vibes from the Steinbrenner’s now. Playoff team check. But most importantly, profits!

I gotta say, George did want to win but he did need to learn how to temper his impulses and be smart. So yea, ownership has to be smart, and I don’t doubt that. The current dude does have a finance background so he has some skillset. But if the owner is missing the will to win, I think what we get is the product we see on the field, and teams like the Dodgers outpacing us.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#302 » by Knicksfan1992 » Fri Oct 8, 2021 2:35 pm

ccvle wrote:My point wasnt trying to cherry pick names but just to point out that most of the free agent signing ended up being pretty bad that it is hard to find names that you say "fk I wish the Yankees spent money to get him". Yes, there are a Charlie morton and Zach wheeler here and there every year but there are alot more names that Im gald we didn't get. I'm not trying to defend every one of Yankees decision as I agree there were many bad ones, just that I don't believe being cheap is the number One issue.


Being cheap is 100% the biggest issue if you are by far the most wealthy team in a sport with no limit on spending and you are not utilizing it to its full effect. There's no real reason why the Yankees shouldn't have the highest payroll in the league every year. They print money hand over hand. Yes you can make bad signings but being too risk averse in FA has legit cost this team wins in the regular season which effects playoff posturing.

You can blame injuries, lack of development, etc. but you know what helps hedge against all of those issues? Actually spending money on dependable players and not hoping a few things pan out in your favor. The only players the Yankees pay semi-big - big money to are Stanton, LeMahieu, Hicks, Cole, and Chapman. There's no reason for that other than Cashman/Hal/Levine getting their rocks off to trying to win while still operating like a smaller big market.

They scoffed at Machado who was a top 3 MVP candidate in the COVID shortened year where we could have beaten the Rays had we had more hitting and who also would have had the 3rd highest OPS on the team this year and they refuse to spend on any dependable pitching besides Cole... Yes spending money doesn't necessarily mean anything if you don't spend it right, but it definitely helps widen your margin for error. Just reeks of an organization who wants to do what it can to get by. The C/B student who has A potential...
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#303 » by moocow007 » Fri Oct 8, 2021 2:55 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:It's not how much you spend...it is what you spend it on. We had half the lineup hitting Mendoza line or lower all year. The only quality consistent play we got was Judge/Stanton. Not enough to win it all.

I had fun being on the verge of collapse and fighting for the WC. Disappointed we didn't have a better season but...whatever. Get Theo to replace Cashman and fire Boone.


Bean Counter Hal should have just given $10 million per to Erik Neander to pry him away from Tampa (before he signed a multi-year deal to stay) so he can build Hal the NY version of the Rays who has a team salary of just $70 million.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#304 » by Jump Shot » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:10 am

Seems to be another Red Sox randomly win the World Series kind of year :/
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#305 » by blue and orange » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:41 am

Jump Shot wrote:Seems to be another Red Sox randomly win the World Series kind of year :/


Yep an organization that gets it, high average hitters no .200 hitters and fundamentals and this was supposed to be a rebuild year for Redsox. You can get cheaper deals like a **** Hernandez but no sign Aaron Hicks to a bigger deal lol.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#306 » by blue and orange » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:43 am

So Hernandez first name is offensive I just realized that lol.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#307 » by moocow007 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:01 pm

Think of what the Yankees could have gotten for Voit, Sanchez and Torres had Cashman traded them (like I suggested) when their trade value was at it's peak (or in Sanchez's case higher than now).

Personally I think maybe someone that is more fire and brimstone will be better off for this team to replace Boone. Guys that immediately pop to mind are Buck Showalter (once a Yankee always a Yankee?) and Bruce Bochy (always liked him). Aaron Boone? I just have no idea if anyone actually respects him or listens to him assuming what he's got to say is even worth listening to.

And definitely, stop the over reliance on analytics and the love affair with swing and miss guys that have no backbone for NY.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#308 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:51 am

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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#309 » by moocow007 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:50 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
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That's because Cashman refuses to trade anyone of real value even if they don't fit or seem to be off excess. Mix that with Hal Steinbrenner not willing to spend whatever it takes in free agency and you have an environment where you simply cannot make major term altering changes. So instead, what happens is they try to nickle and dime in trades and free agency, looking for luck to get them "steals" (which btw is basically what you do shopping at thrift stores...think about it).

Net result? There are only so many diamonds in the rough and lucky finds out there and chances are high that they aren't going to be of such impact value to carry you over the top. Both the Red Sox and Rays weren't afraid to trade "key" players, "popular" players, weren't about fan backlash. They had a long (none immediate) plan and focused on accomplishing that plan. They draft players well choosing high upside guys vs the Yankees preference for drafting safe closer to being able to fill in roster spots guys with low ceilings.

The Yankees not only need to replace Boone (who just doesn't seem able to get this team to play above and beyond themselves consistently) and Cashman (who was not the decision maker that built that last successful Yankees championship teams), they need a new owner that isn't afraid of using his teams largest revenue stream proportionately to said revenue instead of comparatively to what other smaller revenue teams outlay (it's not the same to be spending in the range of top spending teams when your team's revenue blows past those other teams...that's being cheap and spending just for fake hustle).

Just think of the guys that they could have should have traded who's value has tanked and who would honestly not have been missed had they been dealt. Torres, Sanchez, Voit, Frazier, Britton, Green, etc. And this isn't about hindsight.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#310 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:08 am

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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#311 » by moocow007 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:14 pm

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Say what you really feel Pete. :lol:

But he's kinda right. It does look like Gallo is the position player version of Sonny Gray. Fine when not wearing pinstripes but deer-in-the-headlights when wearing them.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#312 » by NYK Dolemite » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:13 am

moocow007 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
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Say what you really feel Pete. :lol:

But he's kinda right. It does look like Gallo is the position player version of Sonny Gray. Fine when not wearing pinstripes but deer-in-the-headlights when wearing them.


His beard covered the weak chin. Lost his confidence when he had to shave.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#313 » by moocow007 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:17 pm

NYK Dolemite wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
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Say what you really feel Pete. :lol:

But he's kinda right. It does look like Gallo is the position player version of Sonny Gray. Fine when not wearing pinstripes but deer-in-the-headlights when wearing them.


His beard covered the weak chin. Lost his confidence when he had to shave.


:lol:

The Yankees should seriously consider giving a MTQ test to any player they plan on acquiring. MTQ test is the no.1 preferred 'measure' of a persons mental toughness and ability to handle pressure.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#314 » by F N 11 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:29 pm

Go and get hitters. Stop settling for home run hitters who can’t do nothing else. And Oh, starting pitching. By starting pitching I mean, healthy starting pitching. I doubt we improve, the approach could not of only been on Marcus, it’s also the personal.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#315 » by moocow007 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:18 pm

Here's what I would suggest they try to do...

Trade Gallo

I honestly never understood the lust for Gallo from so many Yankee fans. He is the poster child of the type of hitter that the Yankees don't need more of. Gold glove defense? Sure. But Gallo will be a free agent after this upcoming season and with Scott Boras as his agent has already reportedly rejected a contract extension made by the Rangers that would have likely paid Gallo about $20 million a season.

If 'George' was in front of 'Steinbrenner' on the owners door at Yankee headquarters then sure. But when it 'Bean Counter' (er I mean 'Hal') it just does not make sense for the Yankees to basically carry an ill fitting Gallo who looked like the Sonny Gray of hitters for them for one season and then watch him leave cause they won't pay him.

There are teams out there they still love Gallo and with one year left on his contract at a cheap $9.5 million the Yankees should be able to get something in return that can either restock their farm system or be used to make trades for players that actually fit better and/or address other positions of (greater) need.

Who will play LF? The guy that currently has the largest contract on the Yankees and that actually showed he is a better hitter when he's also playing the field?

Trade Torres

This is what I suggested that they do BEFORE this past season of hopes and dashed dreams. I said he wasn't a SS and warned that if the Yankees cheapness forces him to play short that it will likely screw with his hitting. And I was right. Torres is not a SS and he never will be a SS. And honestly even as a 2B his defense is average at best and with SS a big black hole for the Yankees you simply cannot afford anything other than superior defense up the middle.

Hopefully and theoretically, Torres still has some significant value in the eyes of some front offices in baseball. Use it and move him to try to get something that actually fits (there's that word again right?).

DJL is your 2B. They paid him (rightfully so) and now they are stuck with him (in a good way). They already have way too many guys that should be playing 1B to suggest moving DJL, a career 2B to 1st (see fit). So with DJL your 2B for the forseeable future (and with Anthony Volpe, who MAY move to 2B?) in the wings you have no need for Torres (again he's NOT a SS).

Just as they should have looked to do before last season, see if there's a trade to be had for someone like Luis Castillo (who is also coming off a down year but actually would fit a perfect need for the Yanks) who there was a lot of talk about concerning Torres at the same point last season. Castillo had one of his worst seasons so far which should help keep him within reach of a Torres based package doable.

Trade Hicks

I have a theory that Hicks propensity for injury is actually a curse that some gypsy placed on him and that that curse is so strong that it actually spreads to those around him (LOL). But seriously Hicks has been a hot mess and is the posterchild of what trying to be too smart and cheap does. Wipe this mistake clean even if you have to pay half his remaining contract to find another team to take him. It doesn't matter if it looks like he's "finally going to be healthy". It's a mirage...he'll get injured again. Screw his cannon arm (which with all the injuries isn't cannon anymore) and screw the OBP (when you play only 50% of the games that your teammates have played your ability to get on base lessens in terms of meaning).

Who to replace him with? If they are going to go cheap then maybe giving Estevan Florial a more extended look is an option? After years of up and down injury plagued minor league career Florial looked pretty good both in the field and at the plate in limited playing time with the parent team. But if they don't feel that they can live with that, Starling Marte (someone they've been apparently interested in regularly) will be a free agent and is coming off a 6 year $31 million contract. Since he's a bit long in the tooth now you can probably get him for half those years at the same AAV? 3 years $16-17 million contract? Marte brings a very fiery energetic style of play with him and that's something that this team seems to be lacking.

Pay someone to take Hicks contract by offering to eat half of it and sign Marte. Net difference could just be a few million more per to get a guy that actually can do something. And then you work in Florial as a super cheap backup OF/CF and finally let Gardner go (be a bench coach?).

Someone like Marte would be your stop gap that hopefully gets you close to the Martian in NY.

Let Gardner Go And...

Maybe with all the shakeup on the coaching staff, let Gardner be the bench coach with a potential future eye as the manager? Brett Gardner has been a great Yankee favorite but I think it's time to move on. Maybe see if he's willing to become the bench coach.

Even if they (do the right thing) and let Boone go I'm sure they can talk whoever replaces him to keep Gardner on as a coach.

Replace Boone

You can argue this any number of ways and Boone has managed to take really odd rosters put together by Bean Counter and Cashman to the playoffs (does the Wildcard count as playoffs?) but the reality is that he just doesn't seem to be able to make the sum better than the individual parts consistently. And isn't that the true measure of a great manager in any sport?

They can go any number of ways but I think for this team they need to go back to basics and look for a more "old school" manager that can get this mish mosh group of guys to fight and compete and be in attack mode more.

The 2 guys that I like the most that are apparently available and that have proven track records are former Giants manager Bruce Bochy and once a Yankee always a Yankee Buck Showalter. Now there's talk about why Showalter back to the Yankees will never happen (based on Buck wanting total autonomy to manage the team they way he wants and Cashman being the type that insists that his managers take "suggestions" from him and his "analysts") and Bochy is rumored to be a "west coast guy" at heart. But nothing is written in stone and things can be rectified (especially if Bean Counter grows a pair of man balls and fires Cashman).

Replace Cashman

While I'm sure Bean Counter sees Cashman as his perfect little front office bride, the reality is that if he's not going to authorize spending whatever it takes, it may be better off bringing someone into the front office that can build a better winner with a budget.

What he should have done was tried to swipe Erik Neander from the Rays (before Neander re-upped). Neander has been able to build better teams consistently while staying south of the Rays $70 or so million budget. Even if you pay Neander $20 million a year you'd still be saving about $120 million a year LOL.

All jokes aside, Cashman hasn't really ever done anything to push this team over the top and win a title. No he did not build the last Yankees dynasty (that was Gene Michael) and I don't know that I count 2009 as Cashman's "masterpiece" as he was reportedly forced to make moves that he would not have done otherwise.

Trade Gary Sanchez

They should have moved Sanchez well before now. But such as it is, they simply cannot keep moving forward where you have your backup catcher being the "personal catcher" for your top of the rotation guys.

It's time to cut the cord. Get whatever you can out of a deal. Sanchez still is not a catcher that can make your pitching staff better and the whole dynamic is just off when you have him on the roster and in the lineup.

Who to replace him with? There are a few different options IMO and the Yankees can go with any number of them.

Option 1 is to believe that one of the many catching prospects you have in the organization is your future and that you just need a stop gap for a couple years. The obvious best stop gap guy is the guy they probably should have looked at signing last offseason as a stop gap...Yadier Molina. He'll be free again. He's old but still from a pure catching expertise and running a staff goes he's top notch. Higashioka can continue to be your backup and with Molina aging should still get his fair share of playing time (which is what you want). Then hopefully in a couple years one of your many many catching prospects will be ready to step up.

Option 2 is a slight variation of Option 1. You still go with a stop gap approach but in this case the stop gap is so you can set your eyes on someone that is on another team that will hit free agency in a year that you can make a serious push for that could be a difference maker type. For this option the obvious immediately guy that comes to mind is Christian Vasquez of the Red Sox. Vasquez is an elite defensive catcher that is also a big game player, has pop and just is a winner type mentality.

Optin 3 is to make a trade for someone like Willson Contreras. The Cubs are still a long ways away from contending as they are currently in a rebuild. Contreras will be a free agent after next season. From an age, defense, offense point of view he's a perfect get for the immediate future and for the next half decade or so. So you focus on trying to make a trade with the Cubs. Costly? I mean you won't be able to get him for a bag of beans obvioulsy.

Bite the bullet and sign a real top of the rotation starter in free agency

Rather than tryin gmore of these Corey Kluber and Jameson Tailon thrift store shopping hoping to find a diamond acquisitions actually go take whatever money you have and go after guys that actually are still top of the rotation starters.

There are actually quite a few top of the rotation guys on the free agency market this offseason that would seem to be much better bets than anyone not named Gerrit Cole on the Yankees roster. Talking Max Scherzer, Carlos Rodon, Robbie Ray, Eduardo Rodriguez headline the guys that are possible exits from their current teams (Kershaw isn't going anywhere and Bauer is a hot mess that no one is going to touch).

With the Yankees resetting the tax threshold maybe a short term (super) high dollar contract for Scherzer? Even at 36 Sherzer is showing he's still an elite big game guy. You put him with Cole at the top of the rotation you can then afford the mish mosh of bargain basement and young up and comers to fill out the rest of the rotation. And because you're not talking a long term contract it keeps Bean Counter Hal from having to have nightmares about all the money locked up long term for some other guys.

Or if they feel they want to invest less (but still big) dollars for a longer term guy then going after a Rodon (only 28) would be an option. Rodon has elite stuff.

What about SS?

To say that this is a once in a millennium free agency class at SS is an understatement LOL. You have 4 all-star caliber in their prime proven SS hitting free agency (would have been 5 if Francisco Lindor didn't extend with the Mets).

And hopefully everyone finally agrees that Gleyber Torres is not a SS?

What to do, what to do?

The way I see it the Yankees can go in 2 directions here. The obvious one is realize how rare this opportunity is and how important the SS position in, figure out which one they like and go after him. All it will cost you is money (and a compensatory draft pick). If this was the old Yankees this would have been about as easy an option as you can get. Either Trevor Story or Corey Seager would be getting measured for pinstripes shortly after the world series is over.

But since we got Bean Counter in charge, the other option is to accept and just be honest with your fanbase that you aren't going to spend all that money (that you have to spend) and put your eggs into the basket that one of your young prospects (Volpe or Perazza) is your future at SS and (as with catcher) look for a stop gap. The obvious stop gap guy is the guy that they reportedly had been trying to get in pinstripes for near half a decade now...Andrelton Simmons. Simmons can probably give you 2 or 3 more years of quality SS play (defense more so than offense) as you eventually move one of those guys in and hope they are your next Derek Jeter.

So in one hypothetical scenario (the cheap one...aka the more likely one) you'll have something like this:

C - Contreras (his contract will still be real cheap for the upcoming season)
1B - Rizzo
2B - DJL
SS - Simmons (super duper cheap compared to the big name SS free agents)
3B - Urshela (pocket change contract status still)
RF - Judge (still cheap relatively speaking)
CF - Marte (his current year AAV if was assume that we can carry it over to the new contract is VERY cheap)
LF - Stanton
DH - Voit (yeah yeah frayed relationship but Voit is as cheap a productive 1B as you can get in baseball...and cheap matters to Bean Counter Hal)

Potential batting order - DJL, Judge, Rizzo, Stanton, Contreras, Voit, Marte, Urshela, Simmons

Waiting in the wings would be your (hopefully future cornerstone guys) to replace your stop gap guys. Talking about Volpe (possible move to 2B, Dominguez (CF) and Perazza (SS)...and maybe one of the catching prospects. That would project the over the 4 most important positionals (up the middle).

SP - Cole, Sherzer (big AAV but short years), Castillo,...then whatever else currently on the roster or in the farm

The one big ticket expense would be Scherzer but it won't be anywhere like Stanton or Cole in length. Everyone else (assuming you can get Rizzo for his last AAV) will be either extremely or relatively cheap.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#316 » by Phish Tank » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:08 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Spoiler:
Here's what I would suggest they try to do...

Trade Gallo

I honestly never understood the lust for Gallo from so many Yankee fans. He is the poster child of the type of hitter that the Yankees don't need more of. Gold glove defense? Sure. But Gallo will be a free agent after this upcoming season and with Scott Boras as his agent has already reportedly rejected a contract extension made by the Rangers that would have likely paid Gallo about $20 million a season.

If 'George' was in front of 'Steinbrenner' on the owners door at Yankee headquarters then sure. But when it 'Bean Counter' (er I mean 'Hal') it just does not make sense for the Yankees to basically carry an ill fitting Gallo who looked like the Sonny Gray of hitters for them for one season and then watch him leave cause they won't pay him.

There are teams out there they still love Gallo and with one year left on his contract at a cheap $9.5 million the Yankees should be able to get something in return that can either restock their farm system or be used to make trades for players that actually fit better and/or address other positions of (greater) need.

Who will play LF? The guy that currently has the largest contract on the Yankees and that actually showed he is a better hitter when he's also playing the field?

Trade Torres

This is what I suggested that they do BEFORE this past season of hopes and dashed dreams. I said he wasn't a SS and warned that if the Yankees cheapness forces him to play short that it will likely screw with his hitting. And I was right. Torres is not a SS and he never will be a SS. And honestly even as a 2B his defense is average at best and with SS a big black hole for the Yankees you simply cannot afford anything other than superior defense up the middle.

Hopefully and theoretically, Torres still has some significant value in the eyes of some front offices in baseball. Use it and move him to try to get something that actually fits (there's that word again right?).

DJL is your 2B. They paid him (rightfully so) and now they are stuck with him (in a good way). They already have way too many guys that should be playing 1B to suggest moving DJL, a career 2B to 1st (see fit). So with DJL your 2B for the forseeable future (and with Anthony Volpe, who MAY move to 2B?) in the wings you have no need for Torres (again he's NOT a SS).

Just as they should have looked to do before last season, see if there's a trade to be had for someone like Luis Castillo (who is also coming off a down year but actually would fit a perfect need for the Yanks) who there was a lot of talk about concerning Torres at the same point last season. Castillo had one of his worst seasons so far which should help keep him within reach of a Torres based package doable.

Trade Hicks

I have a theory that Hicks propensity for injury is actually a curse that some gypsy placed on him and that that curse is so strong that it actually spreads to those around him (LOL). But seriously Hicks has been a hot mess and is the posterchild of what trying to be too smart and cheap does. Wipe this mistake clean even if you have to pay half his remaining contract to find another team to take him. It doesn't matter if it looks like he's "finally going to be healthy". It's a mirage...he'll get injured again. Screw his cannon arm (which with all the injuries isn't cannon anymore) and screw the OBP (when you play only 50% of the games that your teammates have played your ability to get on base lessens in terms of meaning).

Who to replace him with? If they are going to go cheap then maybe giving Estevan Florial a more extended look is an option? After years of up and down injury plagued minor league career Florial looked pretty good both in the field and at the plate in limited playing time with the parent team. But if they don't feel that they can live with that, Starling Marte (someone they've been apparently interested in regularly) will be a free agent and is coming off a 6 year $31 million contract. Since he's a bit long in the tooth now you can probably get him for half those years at the same AAV? 3 years $16-17 million contract? Marte brings a very fiery energetic style of play with him and that's something that this team seems to be lacking.

Pay someone to take Hicks contract by offering to eat half of it and sign Marte. Net difference could just be a few million more per to get a guy that actually can do something. And then you work in Florial as a super cheap backup OF/CF and finally let Gardner go (be a bench coach?).

Someone like Marte would be your stop gap that hopefully gets you close to the Martian in NY.

Let Gardner Go And...

Maybe with all the shakeup on the coaching staff, let Gardner be the bench coach with a potential future eye as the manager? Brett Gardner has been a great Yankee favorite but I think it's time to move on. Maybe see if he's willing to become the bench coach.

Even if they (do the right thing) and let Boone go I'm sure they can talk whoever replaces him to keep Gardner on as a coach.

Replace Boone

You can argue this any number of ways and Boone has managed to take really odd rosters put together by Bean Counter and Cashman to the playoffs (does the Wildcard count as playoffs?) but the reality is that he just doesn't seem to be able to make the sum better than the individual parts consistently. And isn't that the true measure of a great manager in any sport?

They can go any number of ways but I think for this team they need to go back to basics and look for a more "old school" manager that can get this mish mosh group of guys to fight and compete and be in attack mode more.

The 2 guys that I like the most that are apparently available and that have proven track records are former Giants manager Bruce Bochy and once a Yankee always a Yankee Buck Showalter. Now there's talk about why Showalter back to the Yankees will never happen (based on Buck wanting total autonomy to manage the team they way he wants and Cashman being the type that insists that his managers take "suggestions" from him and his "analysts") and Bochy is rumored to be a "west coast guy" at heart. But nothing is written in stone and things can be rectified (especially if Bean Counter grows a pair of man balls and fires Cashman).

Replace Cashman

While I'm sure Bean Counter sees Cashman as his perfect little front office bride, the reality is that if he's not going to authorize spending whatever it takes, it may be better off bringing someone into the front office that can build a better winner with a budget.

What he should have done was tried to swipe Erik Neander from the Rays (before Neander re-upped). Neander has been able to build better teams consistently while staying south of the Rays $70 or so million budget. Even if you pay Neander $20 million a year you'd still be saving about $120 million a year LOL.

All jokes aside, Cashman hasn't really ever done anything to push this team over the top and win a title. No he did not build the last Yankees dynasty (that was Gene Michael) and I don't know that I count 2009 as Cashman's "masterpiece" as he was reportedly forced to make moves that he would not have done otherwise.

Trade Gary Sanchez

They should have moved Sanchez well before now. But such as it is, they simply cannot keep moving forward where you have your backup catcher being the "personal catcher" for your top of the rotation guys.

It's time to cut the cord. Get whatever you can out of a deal. Sanchez still is not a catcher that can make your pitching staff better and the whole dynamic is just off when you have him on the roster and in the lineup.

Who to replace him with? There are a few different options IMO and the Yankees can go with any number of them.

Option 1 is to believe that one of the many catching prospects you have in the organization is your future and that you just need a stop gap for a couple years. The obvious best stop gap guy is the guy they probably should have looked at signing last offseason as a stop gap...Yadier Molina. He'll be free again. He's old but still from a pure catching expertise and running a staff goes he's top notch. Higashioka can continue to be your backup and with Molina aging should still get his fair share of playing time (which is what you want). Then hopefully in a couple years one of your many many catching prospects will be ready to step up.

Option 2 is a slight variation of Option 1. You still go with a stop gap approach but in this case the stop gap is so you can set your eyes on someone that is on another team that will hit free agency in a year that you can make a serious push for that could be a difference maker type. For this option the obvious immediately guy that comes to mind is Christian Vasquez of the Red Sox. Vasquez is an elite defensive catcher that is also a big game player, has pop and just is a winner type mentality.

Optin 3 is to make a trade for someone like Willson Contreras. The Cubs are still a long ways away from contending as they are currently in a rebuild. Contreras will be a free agent after next season. From an age, defense, offense point of view he's a perfect get for the immediate future and for the next half decade or so. So you focus on trying to make a trade with the Cubs. Costly? I mean you won't be able to get him for a bag of beans obvioulsy.

Bite the bullet and sign a real top of the rotation starter in free agency

Rather than tryin gmore of these Corey Kluber and Jameson Tailon thrift store shopping hoping to find a diamond acquisitions actually go take whatever money you have and go after guys that actually are still top of the rotation starters.

There are actually quite a few top of the rotation guys on the free agency market this offseason that would seem to be much better bets than anyone not named Gerrit Cole on the Yankees roster. Talking Max Scherzer, Carlos Rodon, Robbie Ray, Eduardo Rodriguez headline the guys that are possible exits from their current teams (Kershaw isn't going anywhere and Bauer is a hot mess that no one is going to touch).

With the Yankees resetting the tax threshold maybe a short term (super) high dollar contract for Scherzer? Even at 36 Sherzer is showing he's still an elite big game guy. You put him with Cole at the top of the rotation you can then afford the mish mosh of bargain basement and young up and comers to fill out the rest of the rotation. And because you're not talking a long term contract it keeps Bean Counter Hal from having to have nightmares about all the money locked up long term for some other guys.

Or if they feel they want to invest less (but still big) dollars for a longer term guy then going after a Rodon (only 28) would be an option. Rodon has elite stuff.

What about SS?

To say that this is a once in a millennium free agency class at SS is an understatement LOL. You have 4 all-star caliber in their prime proven SS hitting free agency (would have been 5 if Francisco Lindor didn't extend with the Mets).

And hopefully everyone finally agrees that Gleyber Torres is not a SS?

What to do, what to do?

The way I see it the Yankees can go in 2 directions here. The obvious one is realize how rare this opportunity is and how important the SS position in, figure out which one they like and go after him. All it will cost you is money (and a compensatory draft pick). If this was the old Yankees this would have been about as easy an option as you can get. Either Trevor Story or Corey Seager would be getting measured for pinstripes shortly after the world series is over.

But since we got Bean Counter in charge, the other option is to accept and just be honest with your fanbase that you aren't going to spend all that money (that you have to spend) and put your eggs into the basket that one of your young prospects (Volpe or Perazza) is your future at SS and (as with catcher) look for a stop gap. The obvious stop gap guy is the guy that they reportedly had been trying to get in pinstripes for near half a decade now...Andrelton Simmons. Simmons can probably give you 2 or 3 more years of quality SS play (defense more so than offense) as you eventually move one of those guys in and hope they are your next Derek Jeter.

So in one hypothetical scenario (the cheap one...aka the more likely one) you'll have something like this:

C - Contreras (his contract will still be real cheap for the upcoming season)
1B - Rizzo
2B - DJL
SS - Simmons (super duper cheap compared to the big name SS free agents)
3B - Urshela (pocket change contract status still)
RF - Judge (still cheap relatively speaking)
CF - Marte (his current year AAV if was assume that we can carry it over to the new contract is VERY cheap)
LF - Stanton
DH - Voit (yeah yeah frayed relationship but Voit is as cheap a productive 1B as you can get in baseball...and cheap matters to Bean Counter Hal)

Potential batting order - DJL, Judge, Rizzo, Stanton, Contreras, Voit, Marte, Urshela, Simmons

Waiting in the wings would be your (hopefully future cornerstone guys) to replace your stop gap guys. Talking about Volpe (possible move to 2B, Dominguez (CF) and Perazza (SS)...and maybe one of the catching prospects. That would project the over the 4 most important positionals (up the middle).

SP - Cole, Sherzer (big AAV but short years), Castillo,...then whatever else currently on the roster or in the farm

The one big ticket expense would be Scherzer but it won't be anywhere like Stanton or Cole in length. Everyone else (assuming you can get Rizzo for his last AAV) will be either extremely or relatively cheap.


Putting this in spoiler only because it's very lengthy, but I agree with a lot of what you said.

1) Agree with trading Gallo (and especially the MTQ you mentioned in the previous posts). In fact, I'm a big proponent of instilling a 100K or less philosophy within the entire organization. If I could, I'd incentivize contracts with the goal of 100 Ks or less (obviously wouldn't be based on gross totals, but say 1 K every 7-8 ABs isn't a bad start). But you can't have a 200K hitter in your lineup and expect to win. Also agree about instilling Stanton as the LF.

2) Agree with trading Torres & Hicks too. Probably not getting much value for Hicks, but I figure you can attach him in a Torres deal and just accept the loss.

3) In addition to everything else you mentioned, I suggest firing Cressey and bringing some real strength and conditioning people. I want a whole revamp of everything. I figure Hicks & Voit actually spent way too much time in the gym trying to bulk up and that's why they've been so injury prone. We got Judge & Stanton to take on more yoga this past offseason and that actually worked.

4) I really want Hal the Accountant to sell the team, but that won't happen.

5) The MTQ should be mandatory for all current and prospective players.

6) I want changes to occur across the entire organization, including the minors. There has been a lot of regression down there too.

7) Change our pitcher philosophy to incorporate a 7 inning doctrine for starters.

8) Stop making players pull happy across the entire organization.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#317 » by Grover » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:45 am

moocow007 wrote:Here's what I would suggest they try to do...

Trade Gallo

I honestly never understood the lust for Gallo from so many Yankee fans. He is the poster child of the type of hitter that the Yankees don't need more of. Gold glove defense? Sure. But Gallo will be a free agent after this upcoming season and with Scott Boras as his agent has already reportedly rejected a contract extension made by the Rangers that would have likely paid Gallo about $20 million a season.

If 'George' was in front of 'Steinbrenner' on the owners door at Yankee headquarters then sure. But when it 'Bean Counter' (er I mean 'Hal') it just does not make sense for the Yankees to basically carry an ill fitting Gallo who looked like the Sonny Gray of hitters for them for one season and then watch him leave cause they won't pay him.

There are teams out there they still love Gallo and with one year left on his contract at a cheap $9.5 million the Yankees should be able to get something in return that can either restock their farm system or be used to make trades for players that actually fit better and/or address other positions of (greater) need.

Who will play LF? The guy that currently has the largest contract on the Yankees and that actually showed he is a better hitter when he's also playing the field?

Trade Torres

This is what I suggested that they do BEFORE this past season of hopes and dashed dreams. I said he wasn't a SS and warned that if the Yankees cheapness forces him to play short that it will likely screw with his hitting. And I was right. Torres is not a SS and he never will be a SS. And honestly even as a 2B his defense is average at best and with SS a big black hole for the Yankees you simply cannot afford anything other than superior defense up the middle.

Hopefully and theoretically, Torres still has some significant value in the eyes of some front offices in baseball. Use it and move him to try to get something that actually fits (there's that word again right?).

DJL is your 2B. They paid him (rightfully so) and now they are stuck with him (in a good way). They already have way too many guys that should be playing 1B to suggest moving DJL, a career 2B to 1st (see fit). So with DJL your 2B for the forseeable future (and with Anthony Volpe, who MAY move to 2B?) in the wings you have no need for Torres (again he's NOT a SS).

Just as they should have looked to do before last season, see if there's a trade to be had for someone like Luis Castillo (who is also coming off a down year but actually would fit a perfect need for the Yanks) who there was a lot of talk about concerning Torres at the same point last season. Castillo had one of his worst seasons so far which should help keep him within reach of a Torres based package doable.

Trade Hicks

I have a theory that Hicks propensity for injury is actually a curse that some gypsy placed on him and that that curse is so strong that it actually spreads to those around him (LOL). But seriously Hicks has been a hot mess and is the posterchild of what trying to be too smart and cheap does. Wipe this mistake clean even if you have to pay half his remaining contract to find another team to take him. It doesn't matter if it looks like he's "finally going to be healthy". It's a mirage...he'll get injured again. Screw his cannon arm (which with all the injuries isn't cannon anymore) and screw the OBP (when you play only 50% of the games that your teammates have played your ability to get on base lessens in terms of meaning).

Who to replace him with? If they are going to go cheap then maybe giving Estevan Florial a more extended look is an option? After years of up and down injury plagued minor league career Florial looked pretty good both in the field and at the plate in limited playing time with the parent team. But if they don't feel that they can live with that, Starling Marte (someone they've been apparently interested in regularly) will be a free agent and is coming off a 6 year $31 million contract. Since he's a bit long in the tooth now you can probably get him for half those years at the same AAV? 3 years $16-17 million contract? Marte brings a very fiery energetic style of play with him and that's something that this team seems to be lacking.

Pay someone to take Hicks contract by offering to eat half of it and sign Marte. Net difference could just be a few million more per to get a guy that actually can do something. And then you work in Florial as a super cheap backup OF/CF and finally let Gardner go (be a bench coach?).

Someone like Marte would be your stop gap that hopefully gets you close to the Martian in NY.

Let Gardner Go And...

Maybe with all the shakeup on the coaching staff, let Gardner be the bench coach with a potential future eye as the manager? Brett Gardner has been a great Yankee favorite but I think it's time to move on. Maybe see if he's willing to become the bench coach.

Even if they (do the right thing) and let Boone go I'm sure they can talk whoever replaces him to keep Gardner on as a coach.

Replace Boone

You can argue this any number of ways and Boone has managed to take really odd rosters put together by Bean Counter and Cashman to the playoffs (does the Wildcard count as playoffs?) but the reality is that he just doesn't seem to be able to make the sum better than the individual parts consistently. And isn't that the true measure of a great manager in any sport?

They can go any number of ways but I think for this team they need to go back to basics and look for a more "old school" manager that can get this mish mosh group of guys to fight and compete and be in attack mode more.

The 2 guys that I like the most that are apparently available and that have proven track records are former Giants manager Bruce Bochy and once a Yankee always a Yankee Buck Showalter. Now there's talk about why Showalter back to the Yankees will never happen (based on Buck wanting total autonomy to manage the team they way he wants and Cashman being the type that insists that his managers take "suggestions" from him and his "analysts") and Bochy is rumored to be a "west coast guy" at heart. But nothing is written in stone and things can be rectified (especially if Bean Counter grows a pair of man balls and fires Cashman).

Replace Cashman

While I'm sure Bean Counter sees Cashman as his perfect little front office bride, the reality is that if he's not going to authorize spending whatever it takes, it may be better off bringing someone into the front office that can build a better winner with a budget.

What he should have done was tried to swipe Erik Neander from the Rays (before Neander re-upped). Neander has been able to build better teams consistently while staying south of the Rays $70 or so million budget. Even if you pay Neander $20 million a year you'd still be saving about $120 million a year LOL.

All jokes aside, Cashman hasn't really ever done anything to push this team over the top and win a title. No he did not build the last Yankees dynasty (that was Gene Michael) and I don't know that I count 2009 as Cashman's "masterpiece" as he was reportedly forced to make moves that he would not have done otherwise.

Trade Gary Sanchez

They should have moved Sanchez well before now. But such as it is, they simply cannot keep moving forward where you have your backup catcher being the "personal catcher" for your top of the rotation guys.

It's time to cut the cord. Get whatever you can out of a deal. Sanchez still is not a catcher that can make your pitching staff better and the whole dynamic is just off when you have him on the roster and in the lineup.

Who to replace him with? There are a few different options IMO and the Yankees can go with any number of them.

Option 1 is to believe that one of the many catching prospects you have in the organization is your future and that you just need a stop gap for a couple years. The obvious best stop gap guy is the guy they probably should have looked at signing last offseason as a stop gap...Yadier Molina. He'll be free again. He's old but still from a pure catching expertise and running a staff goes he's top notch. Higashioka can continue to be your backup and with Molina aging should still get his fair share of playing time (which is what you want). Then hopefully in a couple years one of your many many catching prospects will be ready to step up.

Option 2 is a slight variation of Option 1. You still go with a stop gap approach but in this case the stop gap is so you can set your eyes on someone that is on another team that will hit free agency in a year that you can make a serious push for that could be a difference maker type. For this option the obvious immediately guy that comes to mind is Christian Vasquez of the Red Sox. Vasquez is an elite defensive catcher that is also a big game player, has pop and just is a winner type mentality.

Optin 3 is to make a trade for someone like Willson Contreras. The Cubs are still a long ways away from contending as they are currently in a rebuild. Contreras will be a free agent after next season. From an age, defense, offense point of view he's a perfect get for the immediate future and for the next half decade or so. So you focus on trying to make a trade with the Cubs. Costly? I mean you won't be able to get him for a bag of beans obvioulsy.

Bite the bullet and sign a real top of the rotation starter in free agency

Rather than tryin gmore of these Corey Kluber and Jameson Tailon thrift store shopping hoping to find a diamond acquisitions actually go take whatever money you have and go after guys that actually are still top of the rotation starters.

There are actually quite a few top of the rotation guys on the free agency market this offseason that would seem to be much better bets than anyone not named Gerrit Cole on the Yankees roster. Talking Max Scherzer, Carlos Rodon, Robbie Ray, Eduardo Rodriguez headline the guys that are possible exits from their current teams (Kershaw isn't going anywhere and Bauer is a hot mess that no one is going to touch).

With the Yankees resetting the tax threshold maybe a short term (super) high dollar contract for Scherzer? Even at 36 Sherzer is showing he's still an elite big game guy. You put him with Cole at the top of the rotation you can then afford the mish mosh of bargain basement and young up and comers to fill out the rest of the rotation. And because you're not talking a long term contract it keeps Bean Counter Hal from having to have nightmares about all the money locked up long term for some other guys.

Or if they feel they want to invest less (but still big) dollars for a longer term guy then going after a Rodon (only 28) would be an option. Rodon has elite stuff.

What about SS?

To say that this is a once in a millennium free agency class at SS is an understatement LOL. You have 4 all-star caliber in their prime proven SS hitting free agency (would have been 5 if Francisco Lindor didn't extend with the Mets).

And hopefully everyone finally agrees that Gleyber Torres is not a SS?

What to do, what to do?

The way I see it the Yankees can go in 2 directions here. The obvious one is realize how rare this opportunity is and how important the SS position in, figure out which one they like and go after him. All it will cost you is money (and a compensatory draft pick). If this was the old Yankees this would have been about as easy an option as you can get. Either Trevor Story or Corey Seager would be getting measured for pinstripes shortly after the world series is over.

But since we got Bean Counter in charge, the other option is to accept and just be honest with your fanbase that you aren't going to spend all that money (that you have to spend) and put your eggs into the basket that one of your young prospects (Volpe or Perazza) is your future at SS and (as with catcher) look for a stop gap. The obvious stop gap guy is the guy that they reportedly had been trying to get in pinstripes for near half a decade now...Andrelton Simmons. Simmons can probably give you 2 or 3 more years of quality SS play (defense more so than offense) as you eventually move one of those guys in and hope they are your next Derek Jeter.

So in one hypothetical scenario (the cheap one...aka the more likely one) you'll have something like this:

C - Contreras (his contract will still be real cheap for the upcoming season)
1B - Rizzo
2B - DJL
SS - Simmons (super duper cheap compared to the big name SS free agents)
3B - Urshela (pocket change contract status still)
RF - Judge (still cheap relatively speaking)
CF - Marte (his current year AAV if was assume that we can carry it over to the new contract is VERY cheap)
LF - Stanton
DH - Voit (yeah yeah frayed relationship but Voit is as cheap a productive 1B as you can get in baseball...and cheap matters to Bean Counter Hal)

Potential batting order - DJL, Judge, Rizzo, Stanton, Contreras, Voit, Marte, Urshela, Simmons

Waiting in the wings would be your (hopefully future cornerstone guys) to replace your stop gap guys. Talking about Volpe (possible move to 2B, Dominguez (CF) and Perazza (SS)...and maybe one of the catching prospects. That would project the over the 4 most important positionals (up the middle).

SP - Cole, Sherzer (big AAV but short years), Castillo,...then whatever else currently on the roster or in the farm

The one big ticket expense would be Scherzer but it won't be anywhere like Stanton or Cole in length. Everyone else (assuming you can get Rizzo for his last AAV) will be either extremely or relatively cheap.


With nearly $150M committed to salaries and estimated benefits, while excluding around $$80M in arbitration raises, it’s intelligent selling season. There’s a short free blurb looking at the Yankees money dilemma on baseballtradevalues.com that is worth a read.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#318 » by GEOLINK » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:37 pm

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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#319 » by moocow007 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:46 pm

GEOLINK wrote:
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Cashman needs his scapegoat for the upcoming season when the Yankees once again fail to make it past the wildcard.
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Re: New York Yankees Thread 

Post#320 » by Rich Rane » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:43 pm

GEOLINK wrote:
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