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OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#441 » by Zenzibar » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:00 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21



I'm telling you, alot of the people in my acquaintance circle, some who are pretty educated are not vaxxing. Want to know something, they have friends in the medical indistry who are down low recommending them not to.

Crazy world we're living in.


There are lots of so called high end communities around San Diego and LA where there are outbreaks of TB and other though conquered diseases because the fancy people there bought into some nonsense about not vaxxing.

It's not the Magatroids and religious fundamentalists that have turned into forms of fundamentalist freakazoids when it comes to political and social beliefs.

Just more signs of the decay of this society.



Is it really related? Isn't TB a volunteer jab?
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#442 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:08 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:

I'm telling you, alot of the people in my acquaintance circle, some who are pretty educated are not vaxxing. Want to know something, they have friends in the medical indistry who are down low recommending them not to.

Crazy world we're living in.


There are lots of so called high end communities around San Diego and LA where there are outbreaks of TB and other though conquered diseases because the fancy people there bought into some nonsense about not vaxxing.

It's not the Magatroids and religious fundamentalists that have turned into forms of fundamentalist freakazoids when it comes to political and social beliefs.

Just more signs of the decay of this society.



Is it really related? Isn't TB a volunteer jab?


It's not just TB. I'll hunt around for the article. There's an uptick in diseases people formerly thought completely conquered. And the places they show up are in fundamentalist religious concentrations and freaky new age wealthy types who think that stapling a piece of quartz to your head cures autism, or whatever the f*ck the anti vaxxers think.

There's right wing and religious magical thinking and theirs left wing magical thinking. All this stuff rises when the society is under duress and/or crumbling. Maybe it's just a cycle we are in, but I'm not so sure. Then again, it probably is because I've seen this rise in stupidity several other times over 40 years, but it's worse each time.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#443 » by DaGawd » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:54 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
Interesting. Have you heard that Moderna is looking to bundle the two vaccines: Flu and Covid boosters. Their stock actually jumped.

Me personally I’ve never taken a flu shot in my 30 years of living and luckily by the Grace of the man above I don’t really get sick with any thing too often. Coincidently actually last time I really got sick with the flu was late October 2019. Right before the pandemic really took off



You ever wondered if you caught covid and have had the anti-bodies in you all along?

I do wonder that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was honestly
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#444 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 pm

This isn't the article I was thinking of but close enough:

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/why-are-the-educated-more-likely-to-be-against-vaccines

It isn't always the "necks" or magatroids

Anti-vaxxers tend to congregate in urban centers, creating anti-vaccination hotspots in cities like Seattle, Portland, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Houston and Kansas City.

This has been true throughout history. In the 19th century, when the smallpox epidemic was raging across the country, anti-vaccination movements sprang up amongst the educated middle class in cities like Boston and Minneapolis.

It seems counterintuitive. We’d like to think that, along with an education, you gain an understanding of how vaccines work — or, at least, a certain respect for the medical experts who are recommending them. And polls have indeed shown that anti-vaccine views are inversely correlated with education levels.

But according to Peter Hotez, a vaccine scientist and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine, especially in urban areas, anti-vaxxers tend to be more affluent. They also come from regions of the country with the highest education rates, like college and tech towns. These anti-vaxxers have better access to the internet and more time to visit websites and chatrooms that already align with their belief system. Online and in books, they can find plenty of fuel to feed their fire. Amazon and Facebook, says Hotez, are some of the biggest providers of false information and anti-vaccination books.


Warring Tribes
Unfortunately, facts don’t often create incentives for us to stray from our chosen beliefs. Instead of using our education to identify the truth, we use it to rationalize conclusions that are already accepted by our chosen camp, says social neuroscientist Jay Van Bavel, director of the Social Perception and Evaluation Lab at New York University.

“People with more education tend to be more polarized,” adds Van Bavel.

In other words, if your tribe doesn’t believe in getting vaccinated, you’re unlikely to change your beliefs even if they might be inaccurate.

Van Bavel says that humans evolved in small groups and were able to adapt, flourish and take over the globe based on an ability to cooperate with one another. Millions of years later, the groups we identify with are still our most valued asset for survival. Our reaction to certain scientific truths is not so dissimilar from that of politics. We want to signal to the group our cooperation, says Van Bavel. As a result, we’ll defend our camps even if we know certain positions to be wrong or even unethical.

Unlike many other species, there’s no greater punishment than being shunned or ostracized from the group. We’re so attuned to social standing that when we feel alone or separate from our perceived group, it causes changes to our brains. These changes can prompt the body to release the stress hormone cortisol, impact gene expression and even cause our IQs to temporarily plummet, says Van Bavel.


It ends on the optimistic note that this behavior doesn't change unless someone close to these groups gets sick and dies.

I guess we should be airlifting the covid infected into these pockets of resistance.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#445 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:00 pm

DaGawd wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Me personally I’ve never taken a flu shot in my 30 years of living and luckily by the Grace of the man above I don’t really get sick with any thing too often. Coincidently actually last time I really got sick with the flu was late October 2019. Right before the pandemic really took off



You ever wondered if you caught covid and have had the anti-bodies in you all along?

I do wonder that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was honestly


i'd look into an antibody test maybe? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html lots of providers offer it. not sure if you'd find that helpful. i know if i had suspicion i'd just have to know.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#446 » by Zenzibar » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:

You ever wondered if you caught covid and have had the anti-bodies in you all along?

I do wonder that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was honestly


i'd look into an antibody test maybe? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html lots of providers offer it. not sure if you'd find that helpful. i know if i had suspicion i'd just have to know.



Id be curious to know if your natural immunity lasts longer than the supposedly diminishing potency of the vaccine. Do you know?
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#447 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:55 pm

DaGawd wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Me personally I’ve never taken a flu shot in my 30 years of living and luckily by the Grace of the man above I don’t really get sick with any thing too often. Coincidently actually last time I really got sick with the flu was late October 2019. Right before the pandemic really took off



You ever wondered if you caught covid and have had the anti-bodies in you all along?

I do wonder that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was honestly


If you contracted covid your body produced antibodies to deal with it whether you got sick from it or not. Those antibodies will decline over time and probably disappear. They should provide some form of immunity for a period of 6-8 months with the added possibility of being more variable in its degree of protection compared to having gotten vaccinated.

You could also google and answer these basic questions for yourselves though
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#448 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:58 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
DaGawd wrote:I do wonder that. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was honestly


i'd look into an antibody test maybe? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html lots of providers offer it. not sure if you'd find that helpful. i know if i had suspicion i'd just have to know.



Id be curious to know if your natural immunity lasts longer than the supposedly diminishing potency of the vaccine. Do you know?


Damn good question.

So far studies are saying at least 6 months after infection. Could be up to a year. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139

Some interesting info in this and similar studies.

Key would be knowing your infection time. Maybe retest for antibodies in 6 months.

Antibody levels seem comparable with post-infection and vaccine. I’d still move carefully, but feeling healthy and having some antibodies could be reassuring.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#449 » by stuporman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:42 pm

Something to consider.... there are many lying about this policy.

To be clear, I'm no supporter of Biden, I think he's a right leaning corporate centrist that has done more to harm people than help them during his career including crafting and passing racist policies so don't confuse my clarifying the lies with me being a supporter of him or establishment Dems.

There is no vaccine mandate. The policy is if an employee didn't get fully vaccinated they are to be tested weekly. There is NO MANDATE to get a vaccine, just an osha protocol for vaccinated and unvaccinated employees that is in place to protect the employees.

There is NO MANDATE or any individual penalties from the government for employees.... so when the people who lie about this say the erroneous or deceptive things they do... correct them and laugh.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#450 » by Barcs » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:27 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


This is getting ridiculous. The "Vaccination is a personal choice" people are getting others killed. At this point we need to just let natural selection run its course. STOP prioritizing people who personally choose stupidity & paranoia over science & reason. There is no excuse for this with a vaccine being readily available. They live in complete fantasy land.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#451 » by Barcs » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:31 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Sounds like an actual plot from a Stephen King book.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#452 » by EMG518 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:52 pm

What's it like in NY right now. Are vaccination cards needed or can I visit family and get a slice at bleecker street pizza?
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#453 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:31 pm

Barcs wrote:
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

This is getting ridiculous. The "Vaccination is a personal choice" people are getting others killed. At this point we need to just let natural selection run its course. STOP prioritizing people who personally choose stupidity & paranoia over science & reason. There is no excuse for this with a vaccine being readily available. They live in complete fantasy land.


i understand your frustration here and i wish people would consider getting vaccinated if only for this reason. i'd avoid the inflammatory language on a forum where you hope to maybe help people see things your way. divisive venting isn't going to get anyone healthier. and we actually have people with differing viewpoints kind of listening to each other right now, which makes me proud.

the problem is you don't know how many COVID-19 patients to take into your ER and ICU until you have too many. you're charged with helping who comes to your door in need when they get there. emergency services are a first-come, first-serve and throughtput management game. basic supply chain and theory of constraints type ****.

of course, there is predictive modeling that can be applied to maybe limit how much you want to commit to COVID-19 to preserve opportunity to serve others. but doing so eventually requires you to turn away the COVID-19 patients. this is certainly not fair to people who need managed care for conditions other than COVID-19. like... don't have a stroke in south carolina right now. you're **** when we can't assure even a decent door-to-needle time because the first available ER and hospital bed might be several minutes or hours away instead of just down the street.

though, i probably wouldn't be as patient and even keel if it was my mom who couldn't get emergency care and passed away because the everyone hospital became a COVID-19 hospital. if most of us got vaccinated, there would still be some COVID-19 hospital need, but it wouldn't be the kind of volume that impacts throughput this way. very, very sad and scary. that's an everyone problem in all directions. it's not getting ridiculous. it's already there. def. unfortunately i spend most days knee deep in it.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#454 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:40 pm

stuporman wrote:Something to consider.... there are many lying about this policy.

To be clear, I'm no supporter of Biden, I think he's a right leaning corporate centrist that has done more to harm people than help them during his career including crafting and passing racist policies so don't confuse my clarifying the lies with me being a supporter of him or establishment Dems.

There is no vaccine mandate. The policy is if an employee didn't get fully vaccinated they are to be tested weekly. There is NO MANDATE to get a vaccine, just an osha protocol for vaccinated and unvaccinated employees that is in place to protect the employees.

There is NO MANDATE or any individual penalties from the government for employees.... so when the people who lie about this say the erroneous or deceptive things they do... correct them and laugh.


correct. vaccine mandate is a hot-button term for something that exists (almost?) nowhere.

i hate these kinds of arguments. but a lot of people who are OK with gay people not getting cakes from a business in the name of... business rights don't seem to have the same energy when private businesses also say they want everyone on-site to prove vaccination to make use of their resources. the answer for those people is usally to let the money speak -- except now. this is somehow different. am i missing something there?

people are largely conflating the concept of mandate with consequence -- a common misconception and sometimes shady strawman people use when discussing freedoms and rights. no one is going to make any american get a vaccine. there are no squads of american soldiers coming around and forcing a needle into your arm at gunpoint. but there are potential consequences to not getting one. you can't hang out here. you can't work there. health aside, you might not be able to go somewhere you like to go because that entity too has rights. where does one end and the other begin in this lovely american experiment?
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#455 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:57 pm

Barcs wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Sounds like an actual plot from a Stephen King book.


Nice call! Let’s keep tabs on that.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#456 » by stuporman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:56 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
stuporman wrote:Something to consider.... there are many lying about this policy.

To be clear, I'm no supporter of Biden, I think he's a right leaning corporate centrist that has done more to harm people than help them during his career including crafting and passing racist policies so don't confuse my clarifying the lies with me being a supporter of him or establishment Dems.

There is no vaccine mandate. The policy is if an employee didn't get fully vaccinated they are to be tested weekly. There is NO MANDATE to get a vaccine, just an osha protocol for vaccinated and unvaccinated employees that is in place to protect the employees.

There is NO MANDATE or any individual penalties from the government for employees.... so when the people who lie about this say the erroneous or deceptive things they do... correct them and laugh.


correct. vaccine mandate is a hot-button term for something that exists (almost?) nowhere.

i hate these kinds of arguments. but a lot of people who are OK with gay people not getting cakes from a business in the name of... business rights don't seem to have the same energy when private businesses also say they want everyone on-site to prove vaccination to make use of their resources. the answer for those people is usally to let the money speak -- except now. this is somehow different. am i missing something there?

people are largely conflating the concept of mandate with consequence -- a common misconception and sometimes shady strawman people use when discussing freedoms and rights. no one is going to make any american get a vaccine. there are no squads of american soldiers coming around and forcing a needle into your arm at gunpoint. but there are potential consequences to not getting one. you can't hang out here. you can't work there. health aside, you might not be able to go somewhere you like to go because that entity too has rights. where does one end and the other begin in this lovely american experiment?


Many conservatives have a double standard of freedom of beliefs, believe they have a 'right' to discriminate against others but also have the 'right' to not be discriminated against. They don't respect others beliefs because they believe this is their country that everyone else is ruining, destroying and stealing from them because their beliefs are the only ones that are to be respected.

They believe their beliefs and traditions are America's beliefs and traditions so everyone must assimilate to what they deem at any moment is what they believe and live their lives according whatever they want them to be. Of course they don't actually live according to them as they pick and choose when they want to use them to oppress or defend on the whims of their fickle minds.

All of this is rooted in their magical minded paradigm that doesn't require any evidence and any opposition to their belief of divine domination is just evidence that the others are evil demons opposed to god. There's no reasoning with them and no way to even exist in what they have decided is their country, others are not 'true Americans' so therefore need to be eradicated by any means possible.

I didn't make this up....this is what they believe and they will tell you all about it right here. This blog is called right wing watch and even though it seems like a plot to a horror movie it's horrifyingly real in the imaginations of these people who believe it so we now have to deal with it in our reality.

https://www.youtube.com/user/RWWBlog/videos
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#457 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:16 pm

Husband and wife both die of COVID leaving 5 children, including one newborn, parentless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/13/davy-daniel-macias-covid-19/
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#458 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Husband and wife both die of COVID leaving 5 children, including one newborn, parentless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/13/davy-daniel-macias-covid-19/


Jesus. This is heartbreaking.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#459 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:49 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Everything is going to be a complete fcking mess in two months. You watch. I bet by November at the latest, the schools will be closing down again; businesses, restaurants, and bars will be closing down again until we can get the numbers back to some level of reasonableness. And who knows when that'll be, for Christ's sake.

I lost four relatives this year including my dad (100 years old!) and my closest cousin (69 years old) who was my fishing Guru and buddy. We were just talking about our lists of potential destinations to retire at. Neither died from COVID. I can't even watch the news anymore. Everything is out of our control and depressing. Next summer is going to be Hell.


Sorry man, I just saw this. I lost my dad a while ago, so I know how losing a dad and a friend hurts. Make next summer better. That's the only way. They'd want you to.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#460 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:54 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:My protocol is pretty basic. I’m fully vaccinated so I’m maskless when I’m outdoors which is usually at one of the local parks or walking my dog in the immediate neighborhood.

If I’m going indoors, then I mask up.

If I was invited to attend an outdoor concert or ballgame, which I haven’t done since this pandemic began, I just probably wouldn’t go. I’m perfectly content to stay at home and ride this thing out. Plus, no shlepping to and from games and no dealing with ignorant fans.


Exactly what I do, too. My employer said anybody who shows up in the office without being fully vaccinated will be fired. They have made accommodations for unvaxxed people to do most things remotely, but we're around 90%+ at this point.
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