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OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#461 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:03 pm

BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Everything is going to be a complete fcking mess in two months. You watch. I bet by November at the latest, the schools will be closing down again; businesses, restaurants, and bars will be closing down again until we can get the numbers back to some level of reasonableness. And who knows when that'll be, for Christ's sake.

I lost four relatives this year including my dad (100 years old!) and my closest cousin (69 years old) who was my fishing Guru and buddy. We were just talking about our lists of potential destinations to retire at. Neither died from COVID. I can't even watch the news anymore. Everything is out of our control and depressing. Next summer is going to be Hell.


Sorry man, I just saw this. I lost my dad a while ago, so I know how losing a dad and a friend hurts. Make next summer better. That's the only way. They'd want you to.

Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#462 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:13 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:Whats the data on the vaccinated being able to spread covid?


Well, old vaccine style is a mutated version of the virus that has been modified enough that won't get people sick while the body produces antibodies to fight that virus. There's a balance between being effective enough for the body to recognize the virus and not be harmed by vaccine.

The new one doesn't have the whole virus, it just has the spike proteins from the virus that is on the edge of the virus where it attached to our cells. So there's no cell to to infect anything, it's just the specific proteins of that virus that the body builds those antibodies to fight it.

So in theory, the new technology should be safer than the old because it doesn't actually contain the virus. The technology has powerful implications with how medicine and vaccines can work because it's a relatively novel tactic but undoubtedly there are some long term effect questions left to be answered.

Whatever it even is the probabilities of the vaccine spreading the virus I think it would be very difficult to get that data considering the lag in contracting it to symptoms while being contagious virtually the whole time. I'm not sure that is something that could be determined considering the circumstances.

I just listened to a podcast and some researchers have discovered a particular protein's 'hack code' to get into the cell. They think this may be a key to understanding how many of the various things that corrupt and mutate our body to make us sick so possibly search for a way to block them.

I don't know all the technical terms for what this scientist on the podcast was talking about this new derivative work on the process as he was commenting on the research he had learned about but I understand the layman's way to understand it so did my best to explain it.


Thanks Bro, I didn't know alot of that.

Actually, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines don't even contain the spike proteins. They contain mRNA. Inside the body, the mRNA assembles the spike proteins. So the body does the work of creating the proteins, and then it reacts to those proteins by creating antibodies.

Biotech companies have plans to use a similar method to make vaccines against cancers and other diseases. Because there is never any live virus (or cancer, for example) injected into the body, these vaccines don't risk an infection with the virus 9or cancer) we want to destroy. The spike proteins, by themselves, cannot actually enter cells or reproduce.

People used to die of smallpox. It's basically the first vaccine we ever had. Smallpox is gone in the wild.

There are still adults who are (partially) paralyzed form childhood polio, but no child should ever get polio again. The most effective polio vaccine was an oral solution dispensed on a sugar cube, so children would swallow it. Once they swallowed the vaccine, which contained a live, attenuated virus, the virus would multiply inside them and they would shed the virus in their stool. WIth their (inevitably) dirty hands, they shared it with their classmates and friends. So the polio vaccine was able to protect almost all children with only a large majority of children getting vaccinated. My wife now cares for a patient who is in his 50's and remains wheelchair bound from his childhood polio. His life is not a good one.

The researchers and scientists who developed the current Covid vaccines stand on the shoulders of all those who spent years developing those earlier vaccines, and others. They do not and never owed allegiance to any political party or system of beliefs, except for the belief they could save lives by strict adherence to the scientific method.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#463 » by Barcs » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:14 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Husband and wife both die of COVID leaving 5 children, including one newborn, parentless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/13/davy-daniel-macias-covid-19/


Jesus. This is heartbreaking.


Agreed, it's beyond heartbreaking at this point. A simple jab in the arm could have saved the family. Now these kids are going to be messed up for life because of bad parenting. It's sad because the main reason I got the vaccine was to reduce the risk to my nieces and nephews.
SELL THE TEAM, JIM!!! :curse:
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#464 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Everything is going to be a complete fcking mess in two months. You watch. I bet by November at the latest, the schools will be closing down again; businesses, restaurants, and bars will be closing down again until we can get the numbers back to some level of reasonableness. And who knows when that'll be, for Christ's sake.

I lost four relatives this year including my dad (100 years old!) and my closest cousin (69 years old) who was my fishing Guru and buddy. We were just talking about our lists of potential destinations to retire at. Neither died from COVID. I can't even watch the news anymore. Everything is out of our control and depressing. Next summer is going to be Hell.


Sorry man, I just saw this. I lost my dad a while ago, so I know how losing a dad and a friend hurts. Make next summer better. That's the only way. They'd want you to.

Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.

His is an inspiring story - he lived over 99 years in reasonably good shape. That's great. I'm glad you were able to be with him during the years after 2014 - it's good to see someone who loves being alive at that age. I've sworn to myself that not even the Knicks would take that from me, although they may never win again if we all live to 100. For the past 10 years, after a difficult life for the previous 15 or 20 years, I've seriously tried to find what would make life happy and worth living. So far, I can say I wake up every morning grateful to be alive, but I'm not certain I could explain exactly why to others. So I keep on keeping on. I hope you learned that from your dad, too.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#465 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:28 pm

The Lamma wrote:Clyde mentioned the obligation to society which I want to talk about, in a way that's not being discussed as much. And that's people that are actually sick, going out and intermingling with society right now. Obviously this is exactly how and why other people also get sick, and it's infuriating that so many people just don't give a sht. Them doing so and other people's ignorance in the face of a clearly sick person is mind boggling. You move away from that person as fast as you can, but these idiots just don't do that.

I deal cards at a casino, and have gone from loving my job to hating it, because of covid. I'm stuck with the same guy sometimes for 8 hours. This past Saturday I had this fcking dude with this huge bag of cough drops that he slaps down on the table, and he just starts coughing immediately and consistently. So I interrogated the man, asked him if he'd been tested, yada yada. He shook his head quickly yes. When he went to the bathroom, the lady in the seat next to him said "I think he was lying. He lowered his eyes and couldn't look at you when he answered."

When he came back from the bathroom break I continued with it. I asked him what type of sickness he had and he had no answer, he just shook his head again. "There's more than one person here who is concerned with your health status, and the health status of ourselves being affected as a result. I'm feeling very nervous dealing to you right now." After saying this, he still wouldn't leave. I went as silent as a stone, making the situation as awkward as possible, hoping this would induce his exit. Eventually it did, after having to deal to him for an hour and 20ish.

Back to the original point of this. One of the things that really struck me about this was, none of the other players who were a witness to this, including the lady that believed he was lying about this, bothered to leave the table. This illustrated to me one of the big reasons why this country is in the shape it's in regarding covid. Someone who is audibly sick, who apparently doesn't know what sickness they have, is coughing near you during a pandemic, and you think "This is fine, I'll keep playing?" You get the hell away from that guy as soon as possible

Coughing and sneezing in particular eject a bazillion fcking germs. The masks help in this regard but don't go all the way. And this is why my job stresses me out so much now. It's prolonged exposure to strangers each day. We talked about viral load earlier in the thread. So in addition to the vax I take all the precautions: wearing 3m KN95 masks, using listerine on break, saline nose spray, and taking all the essential immune system enhancing vitamins, because there are breakthrough cases. Vaxed folks should not assume that we don't have covid if we are indeed sick. We need to still get tested to be sure.

People like this cough drop assh*le need to stay the fck home whether they get tested or not. Don't go out and make other people sick. It's fine for a sick person I think to handle necessities, just do so quickly. You need food, fine, grab it quickly and get the hell out of the store. But don't go to sports events, movies, casinos, or anywhere where you'll be around the same people for hours when you don't need to be there. Think of your fellow man. The Golden Rule

An obligation to society or to one's fellow human beings... as a young person, I always thought everyone felt that, but I learned as an adult it is not true. It is only when people feel an obligation to others that societies flourish. I hope that, despite the noise and the illness created by those who don't feel this way, enough of us will care enough to get us through this horrible plague.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#466 » by BKlutch » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:48 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
spree8 wrote:Whats the take on Regeneron/monoclonal antibodies? They’re giving them out for free like crazy in south Florida.


:lol: Just want these ass wipes in Florida need; being injected with a super steroid. It’s an after the fact treatment for after you get a bad case of COVID. It’s very powerful steroid. Trump was on it after his symptoms became on bigly.

It’s not a prophylactic to my knowledge. In other words, it doesn’t act like a vaccine.

You gonna give ol’ Wingo some good news?

Here's what it really is —
Monoclonal antibodies are really just antibodies! Just like the antibodies our own bodies make to fight off disease, these are molecules that attack the virus and allow immune cells in the body to swallow and digest the virus, killing it.

"Monoclonal" means that these antibodies are all alike, clones, and they all fight the same thing: The SARS-COV2 virus that causes Covid-19. So yes, they are given after you're sick, and what they do is help knock down the virus, giving the body a chance to develop it's own immune response before you get to sick or die. Are they as effective as vaccines? Probably not, but they do work. Any they are freakin' expensive.

I think your decision years ago to attend law school was a wise one. :wink:
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#467 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:49 pm

BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
Sorry man, I just saw this. I lost my dad a while ago, so I know how losing a dad and a friend hurts. Make next summer better. That's the only way. They'd want you to.

Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.

His is an inspiring story - he lived over 99 years in reasonably good shape. That's great. I'm glad you were able to be with him during the years after 2014 - it's good to see someone who loves being alive at that age. I've sworn to myself that not even the Knicks would take that from me, although they may never win again if we all live to 100. For the past 10 years, after a difficult life for the previous 15 or 20 years, I've seriously tried to find what would make life happy and worth living. So far, I can say I wake up every morning grateful to be alive, but I'm not certain I could explain exactly why to others. So I keep on keeping on. I hope you learned that from your dad, too.


Yes, he taught me a lot over the years from the way but perseverance was probably the one thing that sticks out. He always would quote Thomas Edison, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."

Shortly after he left Albania at 18 for the University of Graz, in Austria, Albania became communist and put up "The Iron Curtain." If my father came back to Albania, he would not be allowed to return to Graz, to complete his medical school education, which was his dream. He and his parents decided that he was complete his education and they would send him money for his education. He never got to see his parents again.

Then during his time at Graz Univ., a "friend" begged him for what amounted to his tuition money with a promise to pay it right back, yada, yada, yada. So this bum never paid the money back and my dad had to work in the salt mines outside in Austria for work. When that work ran out, he took the boat to America, got a work visa, and worked with other Albanians washing and busing dishes until he saved enough money that he could complete a year of school. He did this 3 times, back and forth across the Atlantic.

After he graduated, he and my mom met and eventually got married. Dad took a job at the Temple Univ. School of Medicine in the pathology dept. while he studied for the NJ and NY state exams. He passed BOTH! The only Albanian doctor to ever do so! (Hey, I'll take it. It's more than I can say for myself. :lol:) He spoke 5 languages (Albania, Italian, German, French, and English) and studied/played the violin and viola beautifully. But most importantly, he was a good and kind man who treated everybody with respect. He stayed married to my mom for 67 years. He didn't drink booze, fool around behind my mom's back, or ever get physical with her or anyone. A gentleman's gentleman.

Sorry if I went on a little bit here. But it just started gushing out.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#468 » by stuporman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:57 pm

BKlutch wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Well, old vaccine style is a mutated version of the virus that has been modified enough that won't get people sick while the body produces antibodies to fight that virus. There's a balance between being effective enough for the body to recognize the virus and not be harmed by vaccine.

The new one doesn't have the whole virus, it just has the spike proteins from the virus that is on the edge of the virus where it attached to our cells. So there's no cell to to infect anything, it's just the specific proteins of that virus that the body builds those antibodies to fight it.

So in theory, the new technology should be safer than the old because it doesn't actually contain the virus. The technology has powerful implications with how medicine and vaccines can work because it's a relatively novel tactic but undoubtedly there are some long term effect questions left to be answered.

Whatever it even is the probabilities of the vaccine spreading the virus I think it would be very difficult to get that data considering the lag in contracting it to symptoms while being contagious virtually the whole time. I'm not sure that is something that could be determined considering the circumstances.

I just listened to a podcast and some researchers have discovered a particular protein's 'hack code' to get into the cell. They think this may be a key to understanding how many of the various things that corrupt and mutate our body to make us sick so possibly search for a way to block them.

I don't know all the technical terms for what this scientist on the podcast was talking about this new derivative work on the process as he was commenting on the research he had learned about but I understand the layman's way to understand it so did my best to explain it.


Thanks Bro, I didn't know alot of that.

Actually, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines don't even contain the spike proteins. They contain mRNA. Inside the body, the mRNA assembles the spike proteins. So the body does the work of creating the proteins, and then it reacts to those proteins by creating antibodies.

Biotech companies have plans to use a similar method to make vaccines against cancers and other diseases. Because there is never any live virus (or cancer, for example) injected into the body, these vaccines don't risk an infection with the virus 9or cancer) we want to destroy. The spike proteins, by themselves, cannot actually enter cells or reproduce.

People used to die of smallpox. It's basically the first vaccine we ever had. Smallpox is gone in the wild.

There are still adults who are (partially) paralyzed form childhood polio, but no child should ever get polio again. The most effective polio vaccine was an oral solution dispensed on a sugar cube, so children would swallow it. Once they swallowed the vaccine, which contained a live, attenuated virus, the virus would multiply inside them and they would shed the virus in their stool. WIth their (inevitably) dirty hands, they shared it with their classmates and friends. So the polio vaccine was able to protect almost all children with only a large majority of children getting vaccinated. My wife now cares for a patient who is in his 50's and remains wheelchair bound from his childhood polio. His life is not a good one.

The researchers and scientists who developed the current Covid vaccines stand on the shoulders of all those who spent years developing those earlier vaccines, and others. They do not and never owed allegiance to any political party or system of beliefs, except for the belief they could save lives by strict adherence to the scientific method.


Yea, I didn't really want to get into how the vaccine instructs the body to build the spike proteins that the immune system them creates antibodies for. I felt like it was an unnecessary step in explaining what is happening with the vaccine but it's a very interesting technology for sure.

The mRNA process was developed about a decade ago by a chinese researcher working on a vaccine for the original SARS outbreak. I'm sure that would make conservatives heads explode since it's not America/Trump that developed it and it was someone chinese that did, let the conspiracies begi...um, continue.

It was largely ignored because by the time it was developed the outbreak was over and it languished until this pandemic broke out. One of the difficult challenges of it was getting the body to build a protein that wouldn't fold in on itself which changed the way the body built the effective antibodies to fight with.

The new derivative research of discovering the different types of 'hack codes' different proteins use to break into cells can lead to how to block those proteins. Which is why there's so much optimism about this technology being able to work on so many different types of afflictions we experience.

Also the speed at which they can develop for specific things has been shortened way down because it just depends on identifying the 'break in' proteins and then creating it specifically for that. This means other afflictions or variants can be developed for much quicker than the old method.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#469 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:07 am

BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Everything is going to be a complete fcking mess in two months. You watch. I bet by November at the latest, the schools will be closing down again; businesses, restaurants, and bars will be closing down again until we can get the numbers back to some level of reasonableness. And who knows when that'll be, for Christ's sake.

I lost four relatives this year including my dad (100 years old!) and my closest cousin (69 years old) who was my fishing Guru and buddy. We were just talking about our lists of potential destinations to retire at. Neither died from COVID. I can't even watch the news anymore. Everything is out of our control and depressing. Next summer is going to be Hell.


Sorry man, I just saw this. I lost my dad a while ago, so I know how losing a dad and a friend hurts. Make next summer better. That's the only way. They'd want you to.


my sincerest condolences to you both.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#470 » by BKlutch » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.

His is an inspiring story - he lived over 99 years in reasonably good shape. That's great. I'm glad you were able to be with him during the years after 2014 - it's good to see someone who loves being alive at that age. I've sworn to myself that not even the Knicks would take that from me, although they may never win again if we all live to 100. For the past 10 years, after a difficult life for the previous 15 or 20 years, I've seriously tried to find what would make life happy and worth living. So far, I can say I wake up every morning grateful to be alive, but I'm not certain I could explain exactly why to others. So I keep on keeping on. I hope you learned that from your dad, too.


Yes, he taught me a lot over the years from the way but perseverance was probably the one thing that sticks out. He always would quote Thomas Edison, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."

Shortly after he left Albania at 18 for the University of Graz, in Austria, Albania became communist and put up "The Iron Curtain." If my father came back to Albania, he would not be allowed to return to Graz, to complete his medical school education, which was his dream. He and his parents decided that he was complete his education and they would send him money for his education. He never got to see his parents again.

Then during his time at Graz Univ., a "friend" begged him for what amounted to his tuition money with a promise to pay it right back, yada, yada, yada. So this bum never paid the money back and my dad had to work in the salt mines outside in Austria for work. When that work ran out, he took the boat to America, got a work visa, and worked with other Albanians washing and busing dishes until he saved enough money that he could complete a year of school. He did this 3 times, back and forth across the Atlantic.

After he graduated, he and my mom met and eventually got married. Dad took a job at the Temple Univ. School of Medicine in the pathology dept. while he studied for the NJ and NY state exams. He passed BOTH! The only Albanian doctor to ever do so! (Hey, I'll take it. It's more than I can say for myself. :lol:) He spoke 5 languages (Albania, Italian, German, French, and English) and studied/played the violin and viola beautifully. But most importantly, he was a good and kind man who treated everybody with respect. He stayed married to my mom for 67 years. He didn't drink booze, fool around behind my mom's back, or ever get physical with her or anyone. A gentleman's gentleman.

Sorry if I went on a little bit here. But it just started gushing out.

Sorry don't be sorry, it's a great story! It's the kind of thing we all need to hear - and you were lucky enough to be a part of this wonderful man's life.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#471 » by stuporman » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:09 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.

His is an inspiring story - he lived over 99 years in reasonably good shape. That's great. I'm glad you were able to be with him during the years after 2014 - it's good to see someone who loves being alive at that age. I've sworn to myself that not even the Knicks would take that from me, although they may never win again if we all live to 100. For the past 10 years, after a difficult life for the previous 15 or 20 years, I've seriously tried to find what would make life happy and worth living. So far, I can say I wake up every morning grateful to be alive, but I'm not certain I could explain exactly why to others. So I keep on keeping on. I hope you learned that from your dad, too.


Yes, he taught me a lot over the years from the way but perseverance was probably the one thing that sticks out. He always would quote Thomas Edison, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."

Shortly after he left Albania at 18 for the University of Graz, in Austria, Albania became communist and put up "The Iron Curtain." If my father came back to Albania, he would not be allowed to return to Graz, to complete his medical school education, which was his dream. He and his parents decided that he was complete his education and they would send him money for his education. He never got to see his parents again.

Then during his time at Graz Univ., a "friend" begged him for what amounted to his tuition money with a promise to pay it right back, yada, yada, yada. So this bum never paid the money back and my dad had to work in the salt mines outside in Austria for work. When that work ran out, he took the boat to America, got a work visa, and worked with other Albanians washing and busing dishes until he saved enough money that he could complete a year of school. He did this 3 times, back and forth across the Atlantic.

After he graduated, he and my mom met and eventually got married. Dad took a job at the Temple Univ. School of Medicine in the pathology dept. while he studied for the NJ and NY state exams. He passed BOTH! The only Albanian doctor to ever do so! (Hey, I'll take it. It's more than I can say for myself. :lol:) He spoke 5 languages (Albania, Italian, German, French, and English) and studied/played the violin and viola beautifully. But most importantly, he was a good and kind man who treated everybody with respect. He stayed married to my mom for 67 years. He didn't drink booze, fool around behind my mom's back, or ever get physical with her or anyone. A gentleman's gentleman.

Sorry if I went on a little bit here. But it just started gushing out.


Amazing story, thank you for sharing.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#472 » by BKlutch » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:11 am

I've just realized something - the bright, caring, honest, good people here - the ones who show awareness of others' lives — they make it a whole lot better being here. There are a number of you — thanks to all of you!
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#473 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:13 am

BKlutch wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Well, old vaccine style is a mutated version of the virus that has been modified enough that won't get people sick while the body produces antibodies to fight that virus. There's a balance between being effective enough for the body to recognize the virus and not be harmed by vaccine.

The new one doesn't have the whole virus, it just has the spike proteins from the virus that is on the edge of the virus where it attached to our cells. So there's no cell to to infect anything, it's just the specific proteins of that virus that the body builds those antibodies to fight it.

So in theory, the new technology should be safer than the old because it doesn't actually contain the virus. The technology has powerful implications with how medicine and vaccines can work because it's a relatively novel tactic but undoubtedly there are some long term effect questions left to be answered.

Whatever it even is the probabilities of the vaccine spreading the virus I think it would be very difficult to get that data considering the lag in contracting it to symptoms while being contagious virtually the whole time. I'm not sure that is something that could be determined considering the circumstances.

I just listened to a podcast and some researchers have discovered a particular protein's 'hack code' to get into the cell. They think this may be a key to understanding how many of the various things that corrupt and mutate our body to make us sick so possibly search for a way to block them.

I don't know all the technical terms for what this scientist on the podcast was talking about this new derivative work on the process as he was commenting on the research he had learned about but I understand the layman's way to understand it so did my best to explain it.


Thanks Bro, I didn't know alot of that.

Actually, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines don't even contain the spike proteins. They contain mRNA. Inside the body, the mRNA assembles the spike proteins. So the body does the work of creating the proteins, and then it reacts to those proteins by creating antibodies.

Biotech companies have plans to use a similar method to make vaccines against cancers and other diseases. Because there is never any live virus (or cancer, for example) injected into the body, these vaccines don't risk an infection with the virus 9or cancer) we want to destroy. The spike proteins, by themselves, cannot actually enter cells or reproduce.

People used to die of smallpox. It's basically the first vaccine we ever had. Smallpox is gone in the wild.

There are still adults who are (partially) paralyzed form childhood polio, but no child should ever get polio again. The most effective polio vaccine was an oral solution dispensed on a sugar cube, so children would swallow it. Once they swallowed the vaccine, which contained a live, attenuated virus, the virus would multiply inside them and they would shed the virus in their stool. WIth their (inevitably) dirty hands, they shared it with their classmates and friends. So the polio vaccine was able to protect almost all children with only a large majority of children getting vaccinated. My wife now cares for a patient who is in his 50's and remains wheelchair bound from his childhood polio. His life is not a good one.

The researchers and scientists who developed the current Covid vaccines stand on the shoulders of all those who spent years developing those earlier vaccines, and others. They do not and never owed allegiance to any political party or system of beliefs, except for the belief they could save lives by strict adherence to the scientific method.


thanks for all this info, y'all.

zenzibar, to answer your question, vaccinated people can get and spread COVID-19. getting it is unlikely but can happen. but the idea is that the viral load should be much lower in a vaccinated person, so while they can spread it, it's not as easy as a higher viral load case that you would see from someone who is not vaccinated. honestly, the virus wouldn't be able to sustain if most people were vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Fully%20vaccinated%20people%20with,the%20virus%20to%20others.

Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.


simply put, it would be too difficult for the virus to replicate in vaccinated hosts to continue. meanwhile, allowing it to get to endemic status as we are only opens up the door for further mutations and worse things.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#474 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:57 am

I'm hearing and reading more stories about ICUs overflowing with unvaccinated people causing hospitals to cancel 50-70% of scheduled surgeries and turn away people with serious issues, some of whom have subsequently died because no one would admit them

At what point does the hippocratic oath get put to the test here?

Do you start turning away the unvaccinated in order to help someone else who may die from a completely different illness or condition?

This is getting really serious now. The unvaccinated are derailing our healthcare system. Shouldn't there be some accountability because of this?
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#475 » by stuporman » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:41 am

Clyde_Style wrote:I'm hearing and reading more stories about ICUs overflowing with unvaccinated people causing hospitals to cancel 50-70% of scheduled surgeries and turn away people with serious issues, some of whom have subsequently died because no one would admit them

At what point does the hippocratic oath get put to the test here?

Do you start turning away the unvaccinated in order to help someone else who may die from a completely different illness or condition?

This is getting really serious now. The unvaccinated are derailing our healthcare system. Shouldn't there be some accountability because of this?


As much as they deserve getting turned away at the hospitals since they refused to do the simplest of things by getting the vaccine, they denied that the medical community that was telling them the best advice to get it and completely forsaking every common sense precautions to prevent their falling ill I cannot endorse doing so.

Although, that doesn't mean there should be no repercussions for their decisions beyond what the virus will do to their body and their families. I would support financial and legal consequences for people who refused to get vaccinated and then caught covid. Especially if their hospitalization were harming others who did get it and suffered health effects because they were displaced by those who didn't get it.

I couldn't tell you what those consequences would amount to but I wouldn't criticize too vigorously even if they were more onerous than I would see fit.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#476 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:07 am

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I'm hearing and reading more stories about ICUs overflowing with unvaccinated people causing hospitals to cancel 50-70% of scheduled surgeries and turn away people with serious issues, some of whom have subsequently died because no one would admit them

At what point does the hippocratic oath get put to the test here?

Do you start turning away the unvaccinated in order to help someone else who may die from a completely different illness or condition?

This is getting really serious now. The unvaccinated are derailing our healthcare system. Shouldn't there be some accountability because of this?


As much as they deserve getting turned away at the hospitals since they refused to do the simplest of things by getting the vaccine, they denied that the medical community that was telling them the best advice to get it and completely forsaking every common sense precautions to prevent their falling ill I cannot endorse doing so.

Although, that doesn't mean there should be no repercussions for their decisions beyond what the virus will do to their body and their families. I would support financial and legal consequences for people who refused to get vaccinated and then caught covid. Especially if their hospitalization were harming others who did get it and suffered health effects because they were displaced by those who didn't get it.

I couldn't tell you what those consequences would amount to but I wouldn't criticize too vigorously even if they were more onerous than I would see fit.


The issue becomes one of how to best allocate and distribute limited medical resources. For example, there was the recent case of a husband, whose wife has cancer, can't get treatment because the only hospital in the area if filled up with COVID patients who got the virus bc they didn't take it seriously. I get his anger.

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#477 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 am

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#478 » by robillionaire » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:43 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Thanks BK. I made my decision to leave Philadelphia and return to LI back in 2014 in great part because my dad was beginning to have serious medical issues. At that time, it was mostly falling down along with cognitive episodes like almost setting fire to the house.

We got to spend a lot of time together which I will always cherish. I got to care for him and we got to tell the other how much we loved them. I wouldn’t trade this time with him for anything in the world. He suffered the last 6 months but he never gave in. He had a strong will to live. He was 100 when he passed.

His is an inspiring story - he lived over 99 years in reasonably good shape. That's great. I'm glad you were able to be with him during the years after 2014 - it's good to see someone who loves being alive at that age. I've sworn to myself that not even the Knicks would take that from me, although they may never win again if we all live to 100. For the past 10 years, after a difficult life for the previous 15 or 20 years, I've seriously tried to find what would make life happy and worth living. So far, I can say I wake up every morning grateful to be alive, but I'm not certain I could explain exactly why to others. So I keep on keeping on. I hope you learned that from your dad, too.


Yes, he taught me a lot over the years from the way but perseverance was probably the one thing that sticks out. He always would quote Thomas Edison, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."

Shortly after he left Albania at 18 for the University of Graz, in Austria, Albania became communist and put up "The Iron Curtain." If my father came back to Albania, he would not be allowed to return to Graz, to complete his medical school education, which was his dream. He and his parents decided that he was complete his education and they would send him money for his education. He never got to see his parents again.

Then during his time at Graz Univ., a "friend" begged him for what amounted to his tuition money with a promise to pay it right back, yada, yada, yada. So this bum never paid the money back and my dad had to work in the salt mines outside in Austria for work. When that work ran out, he took the boat to America, got a work visa, and worked with other Albanians washing and busing dishes until he saved enough money that he could complete a year of school. He did this 3 times, back and forth across the Atlantic.

After he graduated, he and my mom met and eventually got married. Dad took a job at the Temple Univ. School of Medicine in the pathology dept. while he studied for the NJ and NY state exams. He passed BOTH! The only Albanian doctor to ever do so! (Hey, I'll take it. It's more than I can say for myself. :lol:) He spoke 5 languages (Albania, Italian, German, French, and English) and studied/played the violin and viola beautifully. But most importantly, he was a good and kind man who treated everybody with respect. He stayed married to my mom for 67 years. He didn't drink booze, fool around behind my mom's back, or ever get physical with her or anyone. A gentleman's gentleman.

Sorry if I went on a little bit here. But it just started gushing out.


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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#479 » by stuporman » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:53 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I'm hearing and reading more stories about ICUs overflowing with unvaccinated people causing hospitals to cancel 50-70% of scheduled surgeries and turn away people with serious issues, some of whom have subsequently died because no one would admit them

At what point does the hippocratic oath get put to the test here?

Do you start turning away the unvaccinated in order to help someone else who may die from a completely different illness or condition?

This is getting really serious now. The unvaccinated are derailing our healthcare system. Shouldn't there be some accountability because of this?


As much as they deserve getting turned away at the hospitals since they refused to do the simplest of things by getting the vaccine, they denied that the medical community that was telling them the best advice to get it and completely forsaking every common sense precautions to prevent their falling ill I cannot endorse doing so.

Although, that doesn't mean there should be no repercussions for their decisions beyond what the virus will do to their body and their families. I would support financial and legal consequences for people who refused to get vaccinated and then caught covid. Especially if their hospitalization were harming others who did get it and suffered health effects because they were displaced by those who didn't get it.

I couldn't tell you what those consequences would amount to but I wouldn't criticize too vigorously even if they were more onerous than I would see fit.


The issue becomes one of how to best allocate and distribute limited medical resources. For example, there was the recent case of a husband, whose wife has cancer, can't get treatment because the only hospital in the area if filled up with COVID patients who got the virus bc they didn't take it seriously. I get his anger.



It's definitely something that shouldn't be ignored. So what are your solutions? I already spoke of my perspective.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Delta Variant+ thread 

Post#480 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:21 am

This journalist writes about having a breakthrough infection despite 2 Pfizer vaccines, the second one this past April, AND infected his 67 dad, etc.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/12/1036356773/i-got-a-mild-breakthrough-case-heres-what-i-wish-id-known?utm_source=pocket-newtab

The test results that hot day in early August shouldn't have surprised me — all the symptoms were there. A few days earlier, fatigue had enveloped me like a weighted blanket. I chalked it up to my weekend of travel. Next, a headache clamped down on the back of my skull. Then my eyeballs started to ache. And soon enough, everything tasted like nothing.

As a reporter who's covered the coronavirus since the first confirmed U.S. case landed in Seattle, where I live, I should have known what was coming, but there was some part of me that couldn't quite believe it. I had a breakthrough case of COVID-19 — despite my two shots of the Pfizer vaccine, the second one in April.

I was just one more example of our country's tug and pull between fantasies of a post-COVID-19 summer and the realities of our still-raging pandemic, where even the vaccinated can get sick.

Not only was I sick, but I'd brought the virus home and exposed my 67-year-old father and extended family during my first trip back to the East Coast since the start of the pandemic. It was just the scenario I had tried to avoid for a year and a half. And it definitely was not the summer vacation I had anticipated.

Where did I get it? Who knows. Like so many Americans, I had loosened up with wearing masks and social distancing after getting fully vaccinated. We had flown across the country, seen friends, stayed at a hotel, eaten indoors and, yes, even went to a long-delayed wedding with other vaccinated people.

I ended up in quarantine at my father's house. Two rapid antigen tests (taken a day apart) came back negative, but I could tell I was starting to feel sick. After my second negative test, the nurse leveled with me. "Don't hang your hat on this," she said of the results. Sure enough, a few days later the results of a PCR test for the coronavirus (this one sent to a lab) confirmed what had become obvious by then.

It was a miserable five days. My legs and arms ached, my fever crept up to 103 and every few hours of sleep would leave my sheets drenched in sweat. I'd drop into bed exhausted after a quick trip down to the kitchen. To sum it up, I'd put my breakthrough case of COVID-19 right up there with my worst bouts of flu. Even after my fever cleared up, I spent the next few weeks feeling low.

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