ImageImageImageImageImage

Will Kemba and Fournier add wins?

Moderators: NoLayupRule, Deeeez Knicks, GONYK, K-DOT, Capn'O, mrpoetryNmotion, Jeff Van Gully, j4remi, King of Canada, mpharris36, Thugger HBC

Will Kemba and Fournier will add a lot to our squad

No they wont add much to our winning percentage, we'll be about the same.
15
20%
No they will actually make us worse.
3
4%
Yes they will make us a little better with our winning percentage.
40
53%
Yes they will make us a lot better with our winning percentage
17
23%
 
Total votes: 75

NYKat
General Manager
Posts: 9,534
And1: 2,893
Joined: Sep 30, 2009

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#121 » by NYKat » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:45 pm

So Bermans claiming that Perry was pushing for Derozan while Thibs was pushing for Fournier…


https://nypost.com/2021/09/09/could-free-agent-paths-not-taken-lead-to-regrets-for-knicks/

Turns out, according to two NBA sources, Perry was leaning toward a bolder pursuit, that of San Antonio standout swingman DeMar DeRozan. He made the All-Star Game his last three seasons in Toronto before being traded to the Spurs in 2018. DeRozan, though, would have cost more per season.

According to the sources, DeRozan had sincere interest in the Knicks, but instead ended up with a generous deal in Chicago – a three-year, $85 million package. The Knicks inked Fournier for four years, $78 million (with bonuses) while retaining a team option for the final season.


Two sources say Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau was instrumental in the team’s pursuit of Fournier, lobbying for him because of a strong endorsement from his former Orlando coach, Steve Clifford, as a tough-minded competitor. Also, Thibodeau leans more toward pure outside shooters like Fournier.

At this juncture, the feeling around the NBA is Thibodeau has more say in personnel than anyone in the Knicks front office.

It should be noted, however, that Thibodeau also likes healthy players, which Fournier’s recent list of maladies may challenge.


I think the Knicks got it right with Fournier, because of the spacing he provides and which further erodes my trust in Perry, but if Fournier becomes injury prone maybe Perry will have been proven right.
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
RealGM
Posts: 11,083
And1: 16,741
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#122 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:23 pm

NYKat wrote:So Bermans claiming that Perry was pushing for Derozan while Thibs was pushing for Fournier…


https://nypost.com/2021/09/09/could-free-agent-paths-not-taken-lead-to-regrets-for-knicks/

Turns out, according to two NBA sources, Perry was leaning toward a bolder pursuit, that of San Antonio standout swingman DeMar DeRozan. He made the All-Star Game his last three seasons in Toronto before being traded to the Spurs in 2018. DeRozan, though, would have cost more per season.

According to the sources, DeRozan had sincere interest in the Knicks, but instead ended up with a generous deal in Chicago – a three-year, $85 million package. The Knicks inked Fournier for four years, $78 million (with bonuses) while retaining a team option for the final season.


Two sources say Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau was instrumental in the team’s pursuit of Fournier, lobbying for him because of a strong endorsement from his former Orlando coach, Steve Clifford, as a tough-minded competitor. Also, Thibodeau leans more toward pure outside shooters like Fournier.

At this juncture, the feeling around the NBA is Thibodeau has more say in personnel than anyone in the Knicks front office.

It should be noted, however, that Thibodeau also likes healthy players, which Fournier’s recent list of maladies may challenge.


I think the Knicks got it right with Fournier, because of the spacing he provides and which further erodes my trust in Perry, but if Fournier becomes injury prone maybe Perry will have been proven right.

Perry has yet to figure out that there's only one basketball.

The guy doesn't value floor spacing or shooting.
Image
DrCoach
Head Coach
Posts: 6,203
And1: 3,102
Joined: May 24, 2014

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#123 » by DrCoach » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:53 pm

I think we are better but so did the east, any improvement will be marginal
Juggynaut
Analyst
Posts: 3,412
And1: 1,976
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
       

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#124 » by Juggynaut » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:45 pm

I'm with Coach Thibs, Fournier fits the team better as a 3rd/4th option. ISO players that can't space the floor is not winning basketball.
Image
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 49,923
And1: 44,541
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: NYCAA Wildcats

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#125 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:46 pm

RHODEY wrote:


For old times sake:

Image
Image
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 49,923
And1: 44,541
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: NYCAA Wildcats

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#126 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:52 pm

BugginOut wrote:
Here’s Kemba COOKING Trae Young and the Hawks. They can’t guard him. We add this Kemba and there is no way the Hawks are going to be able to slow him down.


He roasted Clit Capella a few times as well
Image
User avatar
BugginOut
Head Coach
Posts: 6,063
And1: 5,983
Joined: May 25, 2014
   

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#127 » by BugginOut » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:48 pm

Thank god for Thibs. DeRozan would of been a disaster and would have been typical old Knicks. Fournier is not the sexy name, but right now he is definitely a better winning basketball player.

Even though Thibs has a bad rap for his GM duties in Minnesota, after this season Thibs has definitely earned the right to have a big say in personnel decisions, as long as Rose is there to make sure the moves don’t mortgage our future. Let’s see how far Thibs can take this team once he gets his guys.
User avatar
aggo
General Manager
Posts: 9,773
And1: 1,634
Joined: Mar 14, 2006

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#128 » by aggo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:31 am

Derozan isnt a fit for this team because he cant play PF and i dont think we're in any position to experiment with him as PG for 30mpg.

those are his positions at this point in his career. he can still play SG/SF but he'd really need ot be paired with an elite ball handler/scorer who can force defensive rotations. But i dont really know if he's even ok as a kickout receiver at the 3pt line anymore.


hes just a bad fit for this team
User avatar
malik959
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,206
And1: 1,725
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Location: Alabama (from L.I)
     

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#129 » by malik959 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:41 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Our defense didn't suffer that much against Atlanta if we look at the numbers, although it felt like every Trae PNR led to a bucket.

The problem was that our centers couldn't make a play with the ball in their hands. That enabled McMillan to have Randle's primary defender take away his left hand, and funnel Randle to the help (Capela). We did not address that issue in the offseason. Mitch cannot make a play either, he's a rim finisher.

More shot creation helps, but doesn't address the biggest issue, which was Randle being taken away because of our centers' lack of versatility. If we replay the series now, the Hawks could still double Randle and stay home on our perimeter players. Fournier is not dominant enough as an ISO scorer to tilt the balance in our favor.

Which is why Obi needs to see minutes at the 5 and be developed as a 4/5 rather than strictly a 4 imo. More versatility, better spacing, more playmaking, more speed.


Some call the guy who set the record for FG% a rim runner, but there is a massive difference between him and Noel whom you can’t count on not to bobble the ball and lose the possession. You get the ball to Mitch and roughly two-thirds of the time he is going to score. And Mitch’s ability to receive the ball in motion is vastly superior to Noel’s. He can corral balls in the air that no one else around him can and then convert it which gives our offense an efficiency boost, especially on second shots.

I find the way people view Mitch to be way too rigid. His impact on the game is magnitudes above Noel. If he stays healthy we’ll be a threat to win any playoff series.

And as far as spacing and teams collapsing on Randle, Mitch creates MORE of a requirement for defenses to hedge the basket and back off from Randle than anyone else on the team. The fact that he’s a high percentage threat at the rim spreads our offense, does not compress it like I see so many (IMO) illogically stating that Mitch’s lack of offensive range ruins our spacing. Au contraire, it defines our threat down low with such specificity that teams can’t leave Mitch alone to double someone else or else he will score at will if his teammates recognize him.

Mitch is a major weapon on offense when surrounded by a roster proficient at shooting the three which pulls defenders out of zones and prevents them from packing the paint which ultimately makes Mitch even more viable as an offensive threat.

If Mitch stays healthy we will be a significantly better team.


So many different opinions. Where to start?
So, I agree with everyone here, to one degree or another. But not everyone entirely.

Sure, as fans we should temper our expectations, but a lot of the expectations are that the Knicks record will be about the same, but the team overall is better. I think it's better. Fournier is a more well rounded guard than Bullocks. The team will have Rose for a full year (hopefully), and will also have Kemba, who is much better than Payton. Even if he plays but 60 games.
A full season of Mitch should help, if we get it.

I'm not sure the Knicks falling to the Hawks entirely falls on Capella being able to double Randles left hand, end of story. I mean, I know eras are different, but back in the day, even the somewhat offensively challenged Knicks of the Ewing era could handle Pat being constantly doubled. Again, different era play wise, inside out, way less 3's etc.

The way I see it, that strategy worked, but it worked because the Knicks basically rolled out 2.5 complete offensive threats against the Hawks. Which ties into the Hawks just having more talent overall. Which they should because they were a year further into their rebuild. You can kind of figure the Knicks made the moves THIS year akin to the moves the Hawks made last year.
I don't like the Hawks and I hate the whiff of jockriding on them I see on here, but I'd say they've been more successful in their approach. It helps that they don't turn over their FO constantly, so Knicks a bit behind the 8ball their but oh well. Maybe they'll get 5 years of continuity out of this group.

So, basically, Randle, Rose and .5 of Barrett were all around threats. Noel is limited enough to not care about - agree there, and Bullocks you can defend with anyone, as long as that player stays home on his 3 point shot. That left Rose as the sole guy dangerous enough to get into the paint/create his own shot, since RJ...still a work in progress. He's easier to neutralize.

Adding Fournier is a big deal, even if he's a "middle tier" SG. Oh, and by the way, there are types to "middle tier". Like, we could group Trent and Hield with him, and they might be better shooters (is it by that much?) but I'd MUCH rather have Fournier, with his ability to drive, but especially his ability to pass and his team oriented mindset.
Just replacing Bullocks with Fournier gives the Hawks a harder time. Gets the defense moving more often.
Now add Kemba and the Knicks get 48 minutes of good PG play, instead of 30 fatigued minutes from Rose.

Would I like a 5 to stretch the floor? Sure, but not sure it's THAT needed, and I advocated for it, like signing Baynes or Olynyk over Noel or Taj. I think the idea of trying Obi at the 5 occasionally would have merit, if not for the fact that Obi gets pushed around by brolic SF's. Still, I'd agree that sacrificing 5-7 minutes out of Mitch/Noel/Taj to give Obi rotational time at C with Randle at PF is worth exploring in the regular season, so it could be used in the playoffs.
Hopefully, with the Knicks having an easier time scoring, Thibs might be more comfortable to experiment a little with that...but I doubt it.


I believe a lot of people are really underestimating how good of a player Fournier really is and what he brings to a team. Defensive wise Im really not worry about him, he is solid, not bad not great. But offensively he spreads the offense and move around on the court similar to how Ginobli use to play. He rarely stands still and consistently finds the open spots. Unlike Bullock he has more options than to just shoot or pass, he can create for himself and others. Unlike having Payton and Bullock both Kemba and Fournier move the ball very well and don’t miss open players. I believe RJ will Benefit most from this and we can see his stats increasing more due to the open looks. Heck try to put Trae Young on Fournier and he would get cooked. Trae is one of if not the worst defensive guard in the league and he was able to guard Bullock because all he does is stand on the three point line, SMDH.

When we had Mitch in the lineup Trae Young did not have a free pass to the lane because unlike Noel, Mitch is able to play defense outside the paint and does a great job cutting off Trae’s entry. I expected their defense to be good with Hunter and Capela + plus Cam when he’s healthy, but having Payton, Noel, and Bullock as starters did nothing but help them defend us. Kemba, Evan, and Mitch are huge upgrades over them.

Our key to having a great season is remaining healthy (Kemba + Mitch), but you can say the same thing with a lot of the top teams (Oladepo), (KI+Durant), (Lebron + Davis), (KP), (Jamal Murray), (Klay Thompson), (Myles Turner), (Kawhi), (Embiid), (Chris Paul). Recently all of these players have had problems remaining on the court, so at any given time a team can move up or down due to health. If we could remain healthy than we can be one of the top teams in the East. We have depth at every position for the first time in a century, but our coach needs to utilize that depth at the beginning of the season so that players don’t become burnt out.

I’m sorry But I don’t see what’s so good about the Lakers or The Nets. The Nets have a bunch of me first players. Blake Griffin and LA are washed and if anyone asked me to name a bench player of the top of my head I would draw blanks……… umm Patty Mills, there you go. They were one of the worst defensive teams giving up 114 ppl and did nothing to improve this. The Lakers have a lot of players past their prime. Howard, Jordan, Melo, and Mathews aren’t scaring anyone and Ellington has got to be the most inconsistent guard in this league.



My prediction in standings this year in the East:

Milwaukee
Brooklyn
New York
Chicago (Does DeRozan make this team better? Hard to say, but I’m glad we didn’t get him)
——————
Atlanta (did not improve this offseason to move up, still need a backup point guard)
Miami (I don’t se Oladepo staying healthy)
Philly (trading Ben is going to hurt being so late in the summer and their looking at trades with Cleveland/Sac
Boston
—————-
(PI) Indiana
(PI) Charlotte
Toronto
Orlando
Washington (Spencer Dinwiddie is their starter?? Lmao)
Cleveland
Detroit
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 49,923
And1: 44,541
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: NYCAA Wildcats

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#130 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:04 pm

malik959 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Some call the guy who set the record for FG% a rim runner, but there is a massive difference between him and Noel whom you can’t count on not to bobble the ball and lose the possession. You get the ball to Mitch and roughly two-thirds of the time he is going to score. And Mitch’s ability to receive the ball in motion is vastly superior to Noel’s. He can corral balls in the air that no one else around him can and then convert it which gives our offense an efficiency boost, especially on second shots.

I find the way people view Mitch to be way too rigid. His impact on the game is magnitudes above Noel. If he stays healthy we’ll be a threat to win any playoff series.

And as far as spacing and teams collapsing on Randle, Mitch creates MORE of a requirement for defenses to hedge the basket and back off from Randle than anyone else on the team. The fact that he’s a high percentage threat at the rim spreads our offense, does not compress it like I see so many (IMO) illogically stating that Mitch’s lack of offensive range ruins our spacing. Au contraire, it defines our threat down low with such specificity that teams can’t leave Mitch alone to double someone else or else he will score at will if his teammates recognize him.

Mitch is a major weapon on offense when surrounded by a roster proficient at shooting the three which pulls defenders out of zones and prevents them from packing the paint which ultimately makes Mitch even more viable as an offensive threat.

If Mitch stays healthy we will be a significantly better team.


So many different opinions. Where to start?
So, I agree with everyone here, to one degree or another. But not everyone entirely.

Sure, as fans we should temper our expectations, but a lot of the expectations are that the Knicks record will be about the same, but the team overall is better. I think it's better. Fournier is a more well rounded guard than Bullocks. The team will have Rose for a full year (hopefully), and will also have Kemba, who is much better than Payton. Even if he plays but 60 games.
A full season of Mitch should help, if we get it.

I'm not sure the Knicks falling to the Hawks entirely falls on Capella being able to double Randles left hand, end of story. I mean, I know eras are different, but back in the day, even the somewhat offensively challenged Knicks of the Ewing era could handle Pat being constantly doubled. Again, different era play wise, inside out, way less 3's etc.

The way I see it, that strategy worked, but it worked because the Knicks basically rolled out 2.5 complete offensive threats against the Hawks. Which ties into the Hawks just having more talent overall. Which they should because they were a year further into their rebuild. You can kind of figure the Knicks made the moves THIS year akin to the moves the Hawks made last year.
I don't like the Hawks and I hate the whiff of jockriding on them I see on here, but I'd say they've been more successful in their approach. It helps that they don't turn over their FO constantly, so Knicks a bit behind the 8ball their but oh well. Maybe they'll get 5 years of continuity out of this group.

So, basically, Randle, Rose and .5 of Barrett were all around threats. Noel is limited enough to not care about - agree there, and Bullocks you can defend with anyone, as long as that player stays home on his 3 point shot. That left Rose as the sole guy dangerous enough to get into the paint/create his own shot, since RJ...still a work in progress. He's easier to neutralize.

Adding Fournier is a big deal, even if he's a "middle tier" SG. Oh, and by the way, there are types to "middle tier". Like, we could group Trent and Hield with him, and they might be better shooters (is it by that much?) but I'd MUCH rather have Fournier, with his ability to drive, but especially his ability to pass and his team oriented mindset.
Just replacing Bullocks with Fournier gives the Hawks a harder time. Gets the defense moving more often.
Now add Kemba and the Knicks get 48 minutes of good PG play, instead of 30 fatigued minutes from Rose.

Would I like a 5 to stretch the floor? Sure, but not sure it's THAT needed, and I advocated for it, like signing Baynes or Olynyk over Noel or Taj. I think the idea of trying Obi at the 5 occasionally would have merit, if not for the fact that Obi gets pushed around by brolic SF's. Still, I'd agree that sacrificing 5-7 minutes out of Mitch/Noel/Taj to give Obi rotational time at C with Randle at PF is worth exploring in the regular season, so it could be used in the playoffs.
Hopefully, with the Knicks having an easier time scoring, Thibs might be more comfortable to experiment a little with that...but I doubt it.


I believe a lot of people are really underestimating how good of a player Fournier really is and what he brings to a team. Defensive wise Im really not worry about him, he is solid, not bad not great. But offensively he spreads the offense and move around on the court similar to how Ginobli use to play. He rarely stands still and consistently finds the open spots. Unlike Bullock he has more options than to just shoot or pass, he can create for himself and others. Unlike having Payton and Bullock both Kemba and Fournier move the ball very well and don’t miss open players. I believe RJ will Benefit most from this and we can see his stats increasing more due to the open looks. Heck try to put Trae Young on Fournier and he would get cooked. Trae is one of if not the worst defensive guard in the league and he was able to guard Bullock because all he does is stand on the three point line, SMDH.

When we had Mitch in the lineup Trae Young did not have a free pass to the lane because unlike Noel, Mitch is able to play defense outside the paint and does a great job cutting off Trae’s entry. I expected their defense to be good with Hunter and Capela + plus Cam when he’s healthy, but having Payton, Noel, and Bullock as starters did nothing but help them defend us. Kemba, Evan, and Mitch are huge upgrades over them.

Our key to having a great season is remaining healthy (Kemba + Mitch), but you can say the same thing with a lot of the top teams (Oladepo), (KI+Durant), (Lebron + Davis), (KP), (Jamal Murray), (Klay Thompson), (Myles Turner), (Kawhi), (Embiid), (Chris Paul). Recently all of these players have had problems remaining on the court, so at any given time a team can move up or down due to health. If we could remain healthy than we can be one of the top teams in the East. We have depth at every position for the first time in a century, but our coach needs to utilize that depth at the beginning of the season so that players don’t become burnt out.

I’m sorry But I don’t see what’s so good about the Lakers or The Nets. The Nets have a bunch of me first players. Blake Griffin and LA are washed and if anyone asked me to name a bench player of the top of my head I would draw blanks……… umm Patty Mills, there you go. They were one of the worst defensive teams giving up 114 ppl and did nothing to improve this. The Lakers have a lot of players past their prime. Howard, Jordan, Melo, and Mathews aren’t scaring anyone and Ellington has got to be the most inconsistent guard in this league.



My prediction in standings this year in the East:

Milwaukee
Brooklyn
New York
Chicago (Does DeRozan make this team better? Hard to say, but I’m glad we didn’t get him)
——————
Atlanta (did not improve this offseason to move up, still need a backup point guard)
Miami (I don’t se Oladepo staying healthy)
Philly (trading Ben is going to hurt being so late in the summer and their looking at trades with Cleveland/Sac
Boston
—————-
(PI) Indiana
(PI) Charlotte
Toronto
Orlando
Washington (Spencer Dinwiddie is their starter?? Lmao)
Cleveland
Detroit


Agree with your take about the playoffs.

I mean, playing Payton, Noel and Bullocks is basically playing 2.5 vs 5 on offense.

My worry moving forward in a rematch is that if RJ doesn't improve his shot off the bounce, then they'd just have Trae Young guard RJ, since he's already better than Bullock at putting it on the floor, but is he THAT much better? At least a quick pick would free RJ against Trae, plus he could post him up and again, I think his handle is adequate enough right now that he could abuse the mismatch enough to make it work, though hopefully he's better. I'd feel more confident then.
Image
seren
RealGM
Posts: 23,389
And1: 3,331
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#131 » by seren » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:30 pm

Derozan doesn’t fill any need. We got lucky with that one. Chicago will be worse with him on the floor.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 13,447
And1: 8,515
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#132 » by RHODEY » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:28 pm

aggo wrote:Derozan isnt a fit for this team because he cant play PF and i dont think we're in any position to experiment with him as PG for 30mpg.

those are his positions at this point in his career. he can still play SG/SF but he'd really need ot be paired with an elite ball handler/scorer who can force defensive rotations. But i dont really know if he's even ok as a kickout receiver at the 3pt line anymore.


hes just a bad fit for this team


He isnt a fit because he cant shoot from range.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 13,447
And1: 8,515
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#133 » by RHODEY » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:33 pm

malik959 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Some call the guy who set the record for FG% a rim runner, but there is a massive difference between him and Noel whom you can’t count on not to bobble the ball and lose the possession. You get the ball to Mitch and roughly two-thirds of the time he is going to score. And Mitch’s ability to receive the ball in motion is vastly superior to Noel’s. He can corral balls in the air that no one else around him can and then convert it which gives our offense an efficiency boost, especially on second shots.

I find the way people view Mitch to be way too rigid. His impact on the game is magnitudes above Noel. If he stays healthy we’ll be a threat to win any playoff series.

And as far as spacing and teams collapsing on Randle, Mitch creates MORE of a requirement for defenses to hedge the basket and back off from Randle than anyone else on the team. The fact that he’s a high percentage threat at the rim spreads our offense, does not compress it like I see so many (IMO) illogically stating that Mitch’s lack of offensive range ruins our spacing. Au contraire, it defines our threat down low with such specificity that teams can’t leave Mitch alone to double someone else or else he will score at will if his teammates recognize him.

Mitch is a major weapon on offense when surrounded by a roster proficient at shooting the three which pulls defenders out of zones and prevents them from packing the paint which ultimately makes Mitch even more viable as an offensive threat.

If Mitch stays healthy we will be a significantly better team.


So many different opinions. Where to start?
So, I agree with everyone here, to one degree or another. But not everyone entirely.

Sure, as fans we should temper our expectations, but a lot of the expectations are that the Knicks record will be about the same, but the team overall is better. I think it's better. Fournier is a more well rounded guard than Bullocks. The team will have Rose for a full year (hopefully), and will also have Kemba, who is much better than Payton. Even if he plays but 60 games.
A full season of Mitch should help, if we get it.

I'm not sure the Knicks falling to the Hawks entirely falls on Capella being able to double Randles left hand, end of story. I mean, I know eras are different, but back in the day, even the somewhat offensively challenged Knicks of the Ewing era could handle Pat being constantly doubled. Again, different era play wise, inside out, way less 3's etc.

The way I see it, that strategy worked, but it worked because the Knicks basically rolled out 2.5 complete offensive threats against the Hawks. Which ties into the Hawks just having more talent overall. Which they should because they were a year further into their rebuild. You can kind of figure the Knicks made the moves THIS year akin to the moves the Hawks made last year.
I don't like the Hawks and I hate the whiff of jockriding on them I see on here, but I'd say they've been more successful in their approach. It helps that they don't turn over their FO constantly, so Knicks a bit behind the 8ball their but oh well. Maybe they'll get 5 years of continuity out of this group.

So, basically, Randle, Rose and .5 of Barrett were all around threats. Noel is limited enough to not care about - agree there, and Bullocks you can defend with anyone, as long as that player stays home on his 3 point shot. That left Rose as the sole guy dangerous enough to get into the paint/create his own shot, since RJ...still a work in progress. He's easier to neutralize.

Adding Fournier is a big deal, even if he's a "middle tier" SG. Oh, and by the way, there are types to "middle tier". Like, we could group Trent and Hield with him, and they might be better shooters (is it by that much?) but I'd MUCH rather have Fournier, with his ability to drive, but especially his ability to pass and his team oriented mindset.
Just replacing Bullocks with Fournier gives the Hawks a harder time. Gets the defense moving more often.
Now add Kemba and the Knicks get 48 minutes of good PG play, instead of 30 fatigued minutes from Rose.

Would I like a 5 to stretch the floor? Sure, but not sure it's THAT needed, and I advocated for it, like signing Baynes or Olynyk over Noel or Taj. I think the idea of trying Obi at the 5 occasionally would have merit, if not for the fact that Obi gets pushed around by brolic SF's. Still, I'd agree that sacrificing 5-7 minutes out of Mitch/Noel/Taj to give Obi rotational time at C with Randle at PF is worth exploring in the regular season, so it could be used in the playoffs.
Hopefully, with the Knicks having an easier time scoring, Thibs might be more comfortable to experiment a little with that...but I doubt it.


I believe a lot of people are really underestimating how good of a player Fournier really is and what he brings to a team. Defensive wise Im really not worry about him, he is solid, not bad not great. But offensively he spreads the offense and move around on the court similar to how Ginobli use to play. He rarely stands still and consistently finds the open spots. Unlike Bullock he has more options than to just shoot or pass, he can create for himself and others. Unlike having Payton and Bullock both Kemba and Fournier move the ball very well and don’t miss open players. I believe RJ will Benefit most from this and we can see his stats increasing more due to the open looks. Heck try to put Trae Young on Fournier and he would get cooked. Trae is one of if not the worst defensive guard in the league and he was able to guard Bullock because all he does is stand on the three point line, SMDH.

When we had Mitch in the lineup Trae Young did not have a free pass to the lane because unlike Noel, Mitch is able to play defense outside the paint and does a great job cutting off Trae’s entry. I expected their defense to be good with Hunter and Capela + plus Cam when he’s healthy, but having Payton, Noel, and Bullock as starters did nothing but help them defend us. Kemba, Evan, and Mitch are huge upgrades over them.

Our key to having a great season is remaining healthy (Kemba + Mitch), but you can say the same thing with a lot of the top teams (Oladepo), (KI+Durant), (Lebron + Davis), (KP), (Jamal Murray), (Klay Thompson), (Myles Turner), (Kawhi), (Embiid), (Chris Paul). Recently all of these players have had problems remaining on the court, so at any given time a team can move up or down due to health. If we could remain healthy than we can be one of the top teams in the East. We have depth at every position for the first time in a century, but our coach needs to utilize that depth at the beginning of the season so that players don’t become burnt out.

I’m sorry But I don’t see what’s so good about the Lakers or The Nets. The Nets have a bunch of me first players. Blake Griffin and LA are washed and if anyone asked me to name a bench player of the top of my head I would draw blanks……… umm Patty Mills, there you go. They were one of the worst defensive teams giving up 114 ppl and did nothing to improve this. The Lakers have a lot of players past their prime. Howard, Jordan, Melo, and Mathews aren’t scaring anyone and Ellington has got to be the most inconsistent guard in this league.



My prediction in standings this year in the East:

Milwaukee
Brooklyn
New York
Chicago (Does DeRozan make this team better? Hard to say, but I’m glad we didn’t get him)
——————
Atlanta (did not improve this offseason to move up, still need a backup point guard)
Miami (I don’t se Oladepo staying healthy)
Philly (trading Ben is going to hurt being so late in the summer and their looking at trades with Cleveland/Sac
Boston
—————-
(PI) Indiana
(PI) Charlotte
Toronto
Orlando
Washington (Spencer Dinwiddie is their starter?? Lmao)
Cleveland
Detroit


Nice post but I dont see the Bulls vaulting over all those teams by just adding Demar and Ball...I actuall ythink they could implode due to expectations.

I agree that the Lakers are overated. Nets are scary but they have to prove they can stay healthy, defend before I gift them a ring

Return to New York Knicks