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Will Kemba and Fournier add wins?

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Will Kemba and Fournier will add a lot to our squad

No they wont add much to our winning percentage, we'll be about the same.
15
20%
No they will actually make us worse.
3
4%
Yes they will make us a little better with our winning percentage.
40
53%
Yes they will make us a lot better with our winning percentage
17
23%
 
Total votes: 75

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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#101 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Sep 9, 2021 11:26 am

Does anyone know how we stop Trae Young cuz we focusing allot of energy on things that don't stop him from scoring 30+pts and dishing out double digit assists. I don't know how our defense looked fine. This guy just killed us.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#102 » by Knicksfan1992 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 11:43 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:Does anyone know how we stop Trae Young cuz we focusing allot of energy on things that don't stop him from scoring 30+pts and dishing out double digit assists. I don't know how our defense looked fine. This guy just killed us.


The Knicks defense was fine in the playoffs. Our defensive rating was at 109.7 for those 5 games which is around a top 5 defense if you extrapolate for a regular season. Certainly good enough for us to win more than 1 game. Our offense was on the same level as OKC's during the regular season though :lol:
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#103 » by Iron Mantis » Thu Sep 9, 2021 1:06 pm

FreeSpiritNY wrote:
DLTGWH wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Noel's defensive contributions didn't matter much when Capela was doubling off of him to basically double Randle.

Even when Rose and IQ were sharing minutes at PG after Payton got benched, the Knicks were playing 4 shooters around our centers and it still didn't matter.

Watch this video:



Mitch doesn't solve this issue. He can't make plays with the ball either, and he actually has less range than Taj and Noel, and he's a worse free throw shooter than both of them. Yes, Mitch has better hands than Noel which helps with the catch, and he finishes around the rim better than Taj, but he's not putting fear into anyone's hearts offensively. The Hawks' gameplan would be the exact same with Mitch on the floor.

Fournier helps in that he can create his own shot - but that doesn't change anything about the fact that our best player (Randle) was rendered ineffective because of our lack of skill at center.


I know this is a Forny/Kemba thread -
But…Although Mitch and nerlins might fit within the same archetype as a rim runner, Mitch is significantly better at it. Mitch played half the games as nerlins last season but still finished with more dunks (84 to 76). He also completed at a higher % (.528 to .390). In your video at 5:05 in there a clip of nerlins being wide open with a lane to get to the rim for an dunk pass from randle but he just stands out in the wing. If you want you can verify stats if you want here:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_shooting.html

So yes Mitch might and nerlins are similar but i think Mitch puts a lot more pressure at the rim than nerlins and would losen rhe hawk def a bit more than your probably giving credit for. Then obviously the def effect Mitch brings to halting the hawks P/R which is an entire different conversation.


So your telling me that if Mitch was on the floor and basically zero’s out Clint along with being a better offensive rebounder and a bigger lob threat doesn’t solve our problem?

Did you really just say fourneir snd Kemba won’t help?

Our problem was everyone standing around and waiting for someone to do something. That isn’t happening this year.

We would dominate the hawks if we had this team last year.

Bullock did 0 in the playoffs. If Randle still sucked he has someone to iso or create and he likes to move around and so does Kemba. The thing is also now for the whole game you got a attacking guards who not only can attack but they can shoot and have amazing vision. I would rather them get 4 assist each than the lam me pass to the side assist where there is no creation.

I remember in one of their huddles, Nate was screaming to his team "take away their airspace!!...make them put the ball on the floor!!".

Who could put the ball on the floor and actually do something useful? Super easy way to neutralize the Knicks offense.

D.Rose was the only Knick successfully creating off the dribble that series, despite Capella lurking.

So for the reasons you mentioned, Fournier and Kemba should help tremendously in unlocking the offense.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#104 » by RHODEY » Thu Sep 9, 2021 8:43 pm

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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#105 » by seren » Thu Sep 9, 2021 9:14 pm

People underestimate both the floor and ceiling of this team. We replaced Bullock and Payton with Fournier and Kemba. Thibs can push this group all the way to conference finals.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#106 » by BugginOut » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:51 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:Does anyone know how we stop Trae Young cuz we focusing allot of energy on things that don't stop him from scoring 30+pts and dishing out double digit assists. I don't know how our defense looked fine. This guy just killed us.

The defense wasn’t the problem as Trae had a eFG% of 48% in the playoffs. The way to stop Trae is to tire him out by actually making him play defense on the other end. Reason why Hawks were able to beat us, and to some extent the Sixers, was that both teams had too many guards that were none scorers on the floor. Trae could hide and rest on Bullock, Payton, Simmons and Danny Green all series because none of these guys can create their own shot. It’s easy to put up 30 a game when you only have to play on one side of the floor.

Now that we have Kemba and Fournier we can actually exploit Atlanta’s biggest weakness which is Trae Young’s defense. Is Trae really going to slow down Cardiac Kemba, or be able to stop 6’7 Fournier from posting him up? If we score it doesn’t matter if he gets his 30/10 because he will just give up more on the other end.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#107 » by BugginOut » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:36 am


Here’s Kemba COOKING Trae Young and the Hawks. They can’t guard him. We add this Kemba and there is no way the Hawks are going to be able to slow him down.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#108 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:27 pm

BugginOut wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:Does anyone know how we stop Trae Young cuz we focusing allot of energy on things that don't stop him from scoring 30+pts and dishing out double digit assists. I don't know how our defense looked fine. This guy just killed us.

The defense wasn’t the problem as Trae had a eFG% of 48% in the playoffs. The way to stop Trae is to tire him out by actually making him play defense on the other end. Reason why Hawks were able to beat us, and to some extent the Sixers, was that both teams had too many guards that were none scorers on the floor. Trae could hide and rest on Bullock, Payton, Simmons and Danny Green all series because none of these guys can create their own shot. It’s easy to put up 30 a game when you only have to play on one side of the floor.

Now that we have Kemba and Fournier we can actually exploit Atlanta’s biggest weakness which is Trae Young’s defense. Is Trae really going to slow down Cardiac Kemba, or be able to stop 6’7 Fournier from posting him up? If we score it doesn’t matter if he gets his 30/10 because he will just give up more on the other end.


You can drain spaghetti better with Trae than a sieve.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#109 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:32 pm

will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#110 » by RHODEY » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:52 pm

Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Well we've brought back most f the same crew and added 2 players that had their own special chemistry going on in Boston...
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#111 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:07 pm

Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#112 » by rajajackal » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:25 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


what people don't realize is that RJ is taking over as an upgrade to bullock while kemba and fournier replace payton and RJ in the backcourt
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#113 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:33 pm

rajajackal wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


what people don't realize is that RJ is taking over as an upgrade to bullock while kemba and fournier replace payton and RJ in the backcourt


But who will replace NYKnickMentality?
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#114 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:58 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
rajajackal wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


what people don't realize is that RJ is taking over as an upgrade to bullock while kemba and fournier replace payton and RJ in the backcourt


But who will replace NYKnickMentality?


List me 20 posters who will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#115 » by -YogiBiz- » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:12 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
rajajackal wrote:
what people don't realize is that RJ is taking over as an upgrade to bullock while kemba and fournier replace payton and RJ in the backcourt


But who will replace NYKnickMentality?


List me 20 posters who will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


1. thebuzzardman
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20. " "
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#116 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:18 pm

Well replacing 2 guys on the starting lineup can potentially shake up the chemistry. But yeah I agree, Thibs will have everyone clicking sooner than later.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#117 » by RHODEY » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:43 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


Look at you ...making me sound all important :P
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#118 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:54 pm

RHODEY wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:will highly depend on chemistry.

As much as we lacked talent last year, our chemistry was high making us overachieve.


Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


Look at you ...making me sound all important :P


your fro is swelling
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#119 » by RHODEY » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:16 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Chemistry is largely spelled "Thibs"

Plus, as Rhodey states, a lot of the team is coming back.

The "chemistry" matters to the degree you think Bullocks was essential in that regard, because we'll assume you don't mean Elf.

It's possible Fournier/Kemba upset a balance of some kind, but I don't think so.


Look at you ...making me sound all important :P


your fro is swelling


LOL..
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#120 » by aggo » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:24 am

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
aggo wrote:dude

kemba 17/6 is replacing a guy who put up 10/4
fournier 18/4/4 is replacing a guy who put up 10/1


the real question is whether kemba is completely shot or if he can play 70+ games but only at 25mpg.


This.

It kind of irks me that people don't think they'll make the Knicks better. With health being a concern for Kemba, which you covered.

But it's not just the stats, which I know that you know, I'm just expanding on your post.

Bullocks better than Fournier on defense. I get that. But Fournier isn't a terrible defender. But on offense, it's just not close, and it's not about the points, and I wouldn't care if Bullocks averaged 15 and Fournier 18, though Reggie didn't average 15 because he CAN'T.
Bullocks is basically a Novak at the 3 with D. A lesser Kyle Korver. A better Ellingthong. He does one thing well and it's shoot 3's. Mostly better at the spot up, but he'd cut some, but no one is confusing him with Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, Hondo Havlicek or even Doug F*cking McDermott in that regard. Fournier is a much more well rounded bball player. At least at the level of THJr, but with an actual bball IQ. He does a bit of everything and does them all well, but especially moves the ball and moves himself. And he can score and get his in a variety of ways. Bullock got his points one way. Well, about 98% of them. That alone makes the team better.

Then add Kemba over Payton? A dynamic guard capable of scoring all over the floor over a guy who couldn't shoot?

Team will be much better. Again, the wins might not jump up, because the east is better and maybe the Knicks got lucky in their streak etc. As Clyde_Style stated, a Thibs team should be prepared every night so maybe those regular season wins weren't so flukey after all.

Anyway, Knicks would have won 47 games if they went .500 in the 10 games not played. I'd say the new players are worth 3-5 wins, but again, lots of variables. Knicks will win between 47 and 52 games.


I also think not only did the starting lineup get an upgrade, but people are forgetting that the Knicks may have had the best 2nd unit in the league last year and that whole squad is still here and had major growth potential with IQ/Toppin in their 2nd years.

The Knicks projected unit this year is likely to include the below 4:

Rose
IQ
Burks
Toppin


Last year that group posted a net rating of a whopping +14 together over a not insignificant 352 possessions...

Taking a macro look at it if you just filter lineups for when Rose and Quickley shared the floor, then the Knicks absolutely murdered teams...They shared the court for 893 possessions and had a net rating of +16.5! :o So even if Kemba and Fournier are having rough nights you can put in Rose and Quickley and expect the team to not miss a beat on a given night.

Basically the Knicks found a way to upgrade the starting unit while keeping one of the best benches in the league together around.

I think the depth of this team is the biggest reason to be bullish on them going into this season while hopefully they can squeeze the last bit of juice out of a former all-star's legs in his late prime.


One thing you touched on which I think people are definitely not realizing is that if IQ and/or Toppin improve next year we're talking about a vastly superior team.

IQ put up 11ppg off the bench. If he gets to 15ppg plus another assist?

My real dark horse would be Toppin actually. I really think Mitch is overrated and Thibs used Toppin at C a little at the end of the year and we saw that his defense wasn't completely awful. I wouldn't be surprised at all a meaningful % of Obi's minutes next year would be played at C. If he proves he can atleast be an average defender at C that would be a tremendous boost to the team and his career.

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