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Will Kemba and Fournier add wins?

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Will Kemba and Fournier will add a lot to our squad

No they wont add much to our winning percentage, we'll be about the same.
15
20%
No they will actually make us worse.
3
4%
Yes they will make us a little better with our winning percentage.
40
53%
Yes they will make us a lot better with our winning percentage
17
23%
 
Total votes: 75

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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#41 » by FrozenEnvelope » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:18 pm

Ask me again around Christmas. I honestly have no clue. On paper we got better but I've seen too many teams get worse for a number of reasons despite improving on paper during the offseason. I do think we if keep playing defense with the same energy and motor as last season, we should be OK.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#42 » by Kampuchea » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:27 pm

This year’s Knicks have more talent, however, it may not directly translate to wins. Last year we exceeded our talent level significantly. This year we may not exceed it to the same extent (injuries, opponents injuries) and as a result have a similar win rate.

Even if the regular season win rate is the same, you’d much rather enter the playoffs with this roster.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#43 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:57 pm

BadNewsBarnes wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:With the way thibs coaches I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up with the 1# seed!!!!!!


And then lose in the first round with a rotation of 9...


Lol probably!!!!!

But the ride will be fun!!!!!!
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#44 » by cgf » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:33 pm

I think we can improve as a team but see our winning% decrease a little. With everything going wrong for everyone last year, we were shockingly healthy, outside of Mitch. That's unlikely to be the case again.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#45 » by Gravy » Sat Sep 4, 2021 3:36 pm

Last year we went into the playoffs with Payton, Bullock and Noel starting. This year we added Kemba, Fournier and.. can we add Mitch too since he wasnt even available the 2nd half of the season.

Are there any other teams in the EAST that added this much talent in the offseason?
DeMar DeRozan and Lonzo Ball?
Lowry and Oladipo?
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#46 » by RHODEY » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:08 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:As much as I love RJ and IQ, we don't have a generational talent on our team.

Also, the Warriors had already won one playoff series, and had pushed one of the greatest teams of all-time (the 2012-13 Spurs) to the brink. The Knicks got completely wiped out by an inexperienced Atlanta Hawks team.


That was last years Knicks..A team that started Elfrid Payton, a team missing Mitch Robinson, No Kemba 19ppg , No Fournier another 19ppg scorer who by the way shot 48% from three with the Celts...not something the "average" starter in the NBA can do, no Duecem no Grimes...

The Warriors starting line-up featured arguably the two greatest shooters of all-time. Curry's #1. Klay's top 5. The Knicks' stars both ended last season with below league-average scoring efficiency.

Adding one mediocre starter in Fournier and Kemba with metallic knees is not gonna improve the efficiency of our starting 5 all that much. Maybe a little bit. Hopefully the added offense outweighs the defensive trade-off.

We're not the Warriors.

Yep the Warriors were amazing offensively, and you know what this Knicks team can be pretty good in that category..considering what we added and the upward trajectory of player like IQ and RJ...

and conversely those Warriors were pretty good defensively , this squad can be amazing on the defensive end. We got not one but 2 DPOY candidates on the squad. Thats 48 minutes of elite rim protection, we were #3 in that category last season, and now we add Deuce Mcbride who is lock down, Marcus Smart level...and we are just getting started.

The biggest reason the Hawks beat us down was the fact that they were able to double off Noel and Taj and take away Randle's left hand/drives to the rim. The Knicks didn't address that in the offseason, unless Obi starts getting minutes at the 5. We should be better prepared for this match-up with more shot creators on the team, I agree, but we still have some of the same issues (the biggest) that cost us in that series. The defense of our starting five got worse too.

Fournier is an average starter at the 2.

Off the top of my head, Beal, Harden, Lavine, Booker, Mitchell, Middleton, McCollum, SGA, Klay, Bogdanovic are all better than him. Fournier is in the next class with Hardaway, Trent, Hield, Sexton, Robinson and a couple others in my opinion. I guess you can say he's top 15 depending on where you rank him in that sub-group.

We don't know what Kemba's gonna look like. We know his health is compromised. I highly doubt he will be able to average more than 20 minutes per game, let alone play all 82 games. There's a reason why Boston let him go so easily, despite them wanting to be competitive. It's one thing to recognize that he's a bargain on his new contract, it's another to view him as a 19 ppg scorer imo.

I don't expect McBride or Grimes to be NBA-ready and contribute in their first year. Smart is a generational perimeter defender, it's entirely unfair to expect Deuce to ever reach that level, let alone early in his career. We've been through it with Frank.

But I get it. You're optimistic about this team. I'm pessimistic about this team. That's fine. I just think we ought to be careful with our expectations because when high expectations aren't matched, then we tend to get emotional and look for scapegoats. Comparing this Knicks team to the 2014-15 Warriors is setting everybody up to fail.


Yeah gotta disagree.I think the biggest reason the Hawks beat us down was the lack of shot creating scoring options we had compared to them. JR and Rose were pretty much burnt from having to carry so much of the offensive load,. Noel had to start because no Mitch - whowould have guarded everyone much better, We fixed those problems IMO.

Regarding Fournier., I put him on the same level as Bogdan Bogdanović. So if you are going to include Bogdan in that top tier you can probably also put Evan there. But yes I'm optimistic and I believe we have solid reasons to be that way.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#47 » by knickabocker88 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:07 pm

If Fournier can fit into his role, it's a solid pickup.

I didn't watch the Celtics but by default the usage rate is gonna go down from what it was in Orlando. Look at G. Hayward went back to Utah version of himself when he got touches after he left Boston.

Kemba is based on his knee. If his knee is solid, then the lift will come back, the 3pt shooting and he's always been a solid decision maker.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#48 » by malik959 » Sat Sep 4, 2021 6:58 pm

With Knox improving we can become a championship contender................

Ok let me start over.

We have a deep team that has payers that play hard at each position. If one goes down we will continue to move without a stumble and thats whats great abut the team we have in place and that is something teams like the Pacers, Celtics, Hornets, Bulls, Heat, and Magic don't have. If someone in their starting lineup go down than they will seriously drop.

People act as if last year we didn't have injury problems too. We were without Mitch (our best defender) for half a season, forcing us to extend minutes to our starters. We had a point guard that did not pass and a center in our starting lineup who could not catch. Noel is a good defender in the key but not out on the perimeter like Mitch. In the playoffs Blaylock should have been cooking Young, but being that he doesn't score outside of 3 point shots all trae had do was guard the 3. With Fournier this is not possible. Trae can not guard any of our guards which puts him at a disadvantage.

I can see this team as a 45-48 win team and remain one of the best defensive teams. The only team that worries me is Milwaukee and Phoenix Brooklyn is never fully healthy, theaters are old and they too have players with injury concerns, mainly Davis and Bron. A lot of people talk about the Bulls, but DeRozen does not put fear in no one.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#49 » by Sark » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:15 pm

You also have to account for the inevitable injuries that happen with Thibs' teams. His teams usually do well in the first year or two, and then his players get injured due to him overplaying them.

Best case scenario is that we improve slightly. Most likely scenario is that we stay about even as last year.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#50 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Sep 4, 2021 10:52 pm

50 wins!

Get ‘er done
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#51 » by Jesus Juice » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:13 pm

It’s a tough question, I think Thibs coaches defense so strongly that he won’t just tolerate a lack there of for the offensive out put on the other side.. we know he is stubborn as a mule so it won’t change all of a sudden so in that regard I don’t foresee a terrible drop off from the effort we put forward last year. If that happens then we added wins..
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#52 » by 8516knicks » Sun Sep 5, 2021 1:27 am

Everyone has a seemingly good take on this. But the real question is - Health. We need 60 plus games out of Kemba, Fournier and all our principle players and we need them ALL healthy for the playoffs including MITCH. Let's see him earn that next contract! If everything hums along nicely we might be looking at 47 wins and maybe (I said MAYBE) 2 playoff series wins.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#53 » by The Lamma » Sun Sep 5, 2021 1:58 am

It's kind of ironic that Kemba came at the tail end of all our FA signings, and yet it seems like much of our success this year hinges on whether he can stay healthy, and more importantly, whether he is ready to go come playoff time. It truly feels like our upside potential playoff wise is based on Kemba. Who is our best player at their peak? Roughly a tossup between him and Julius. But that goes to show how important he is. Everything else is more of a known quantity, with the possible exception of the unknown upside tick of RJ this year.

Looking at you, Thibsy.

Please don't ride Kemba to the ground during the reg season. I love you as a coach in most ways, but your tendency to override players for regular season wins makes me want to have a remote control with you regarding Kemba this season.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#54 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:07 am

We certainly have way more talent than we did last year. We’re actually probably 13 deep depending on if Grimes and McBride are NBA players and I think they are. The most exciting thing about this team is we’ll actually have normal NBA spacing. It’s going to weird having 4 guys that can shoot on the floor at the same time all the time.

Whether that translate into more wins? I’m not so sure. The most important thing to determine that is Kemba’s health. Even with the East being better if Kemba can give you 65 games we probably win more games. If he can’t? We probably end up being worse, unless RJ makes another big jump.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#55 » by Mister Ed » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:55 am

5 win improvement - based on the new guards and Mitch full season. 46-26.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#56 » by RHODEY » Sun Sep 5, 2021 3:43 am

I predict that we get 53 wins ...


Much improved offense
Much improved depth -
Familiarity - we resigned a bunch of players Kemba and Evan already have good chemistry
Elite Defense -This is what we were . Now with a bulked up motivated Mitch , backed by Noel - No other team has that level of rim protection for 48 minutes What we lose with Kemba ...Mitch and Noel will cover...Fourneir is not a bad defender to begin with , Thibs will make him above average IMO

Duece - will be special IMO and he will show this. Grimes could too
IQ OBI, RJ wil all be even better..
Throw in a rested Rose and Burks who can easily explode for 20 points on a given night.


I don't think we'll have to worry about anybody because this team doesn't worry about anybody. We aint scared...but let me tell you we will be a problem for most teams.
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#57 » by br7knicks » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:13 pm

i think last year was an anomaly. we shouldn't look at wins as a means of success vs failure. need to look at how the team plays , and what the playoffs looks like this time.


but yes, as long as healthy, they improve the team vs. getting wins
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#58 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:25 pm

Mister Ed wrote:5 win improvement - based on the new guards and Mitch full season. 46-26.


That’s only 72 games FYI
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#59 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Sep 5, 2021 12:30 pm

RHODEY wrote:I predict that we get 53 wins ...


Much improved offense
Much improved depth -
Familiarity - we resigned a bunch of players Kemba and Evan already have good chemistry
Elite Defense -This is what we were . Now with a bulked up motivated Mitch , backed by Noel - No other team has that level of rim protection for 48 minutes What we lose with Kemba ...Mitch and Noel will cover...Fourneir is not a bad defender to begin with , Thibs will make him above average IMO

Duece - will be special IMO and he will show this. Grimes could too
IQ OBI, RJ wil all be even better..
Throw in a rested Rose and Burks who can easily explode for 20 points on a given night.


I don't think we'll have to worry about anybody because this team doesn't worry about anybody. We aint scared...but let me tell you we will be a problem for most teams.


It really comes down to coaching now. There are no dominant teams in the NBA these days so any team can break through if they click and have enough talent. We have that, so it largely comes down to health and coaching for us, not what other teams are doing respectively

I feel our supporting staff behind Thibs may be among the best in the league now seeing how decisively most of our roster leveled up last season. So for me it comes down to Thibs and whether he removes his butt plug and goes with the flow a little more. This is a roster that demands playing more than 8 or 9 guys a night so I want to see a more fluid rotation that responds to the situation and plays the hot hand

Whatever happened with Payton last season was the primary black mark on Thib’s season. There was little reason for him to be playing as much as he did. Now there will be no excuse as the depth is there
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Re: Will Kemba and Fournier add wins? 

Post#60 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Sep 5, 2021 2:18 pm

RHODEY wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
That was last years Knicks..A team that started Elfrid Payton, a team missing Mitch Robinson, No Kemba 19ppg , No Fournier another 19ppg scorer who by the way shot 48% from three with the Celts...not something the "average" starter in the NBA can do, no Duecem no Grimes...


Yep the Warriors were amazing offensively, and you know what this Knicks team can be pretty good in that category..considering what we added and the upward trajectory of player like IQ and RJ...

and conversely those Warriors were pretty good defensively , this squad can be amazing on the defensive end. We got not one but 2 DPOY candidates on the squad. Thats 48 minutes of elite rim protection, we were #3 in that category last season, and now we add Deuce Mcbride who is lock down, Marcus Smart level...and we are just getting started.

The biggest reason the Hawks beat us down was the fact that they were able to double off Noel and Taj and take away Randle's left hand/drives to the rim. The Knicks didn't address that in the offseason, unless Obi starts getting minutes at the 5. We should be better prepared for this match-up with more shot creators on the team, I agree, but we still have some of the same issues (the biggest) that cost us in that series. The defense of our starting five got worse too.

Fournier is an average starter at the 2.

Off the top of my head, Beal, Harden, Lavine, Booker, Mitchell, Middleton, McCollum, SGA, Klay, Bogdanovic are all better than him. Fournier is in the next class with Hardaway, Trent, Hield, Sexton, Robinson and a couple others in my opinion. I guess you can say he's top 15 depending on where you rank him in that sub-group.

We don't know what Kemba's gonna look like. We know his health is compromised. I highly doubt he will be able to average more than 20 minutes per game, let alone play all 82 games. There's a reason why Boston let him go so easily, despite them wanting to be competitive. It's one thing to recognize that he's a bargain on his new contract, it's another to view him as a 19 ppg scorer imo.

I don't expect McBride or Grimes to be NBA-ready and contribute in their first year. Smart is a generational perimeter defender, it's entirely unfair to expect Deuce to ever reach that level, let alone early in his career. We've been through it with Frank.

But I get it. You're optimistic about this team. I'm pessimistic about this team. That's fine. I just think we ought to be careful with our expectations because when high expectations aren't matched, then we tend to get emotional and look for scapegoats. Comparing this Knicks team to the 2014-15 Warriors is setting everybody up to fail.


Yeah gotta disagree.I think the biggest reason the Hawks beat us down was the lack of shot creating scoring options we had compared to them. JR and Rose were pretty much burnt from having to carry so much of the offensive load,. Noel had to start because no Mitch - whowould have guarded everyone much better, We fixed those problems IMO.

Regarding Fournier., I put him on the same level as Bogdan Bogdanović. So if you are going to include Bogdan in that top tier you can probably also put Evan there. But yes I'm optimistic and I believe we have solid reasons to be that way.

Our defense didn't suffer that much against Atlanta if we look at the numbers, although it felt like every Trae PNR led to a bucket.

The problem was that our centers couldn't make a play with the ball in their hands. That enabled McMillan to have Randle's primary defender take away his left hand, and funnel Randle to the help (Capela). We did not address that issue in the offseason. Mitch cannot make a play either, he's a rim finisher.

More shot creation helps, but doesn't address the biggest issue, which was Randle being taken away because of our centers' lack of versatility. If we replay the series now, the Hawks could still double Randle and stay home on our perimeter players. Fournier is not dominant enough as an ISO scorer to tilt the balance in our favor.

Which is why Obi needs to see minutes at the 5 and be developed as a 4/5 rather than strictly a 4 imo. More versatility, better spacing, more playmaking, more speed.
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