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OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#221 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:29 pm

HerSports85 wrote:So unlike DSJ, Frank got an actual contract, not a camp invite.


DSJr has moved on from Bojangles to Oreos for breakfast
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#222 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:31 pm

MadGrinch wrote:The wild thing is Thibs did what is expected of him which was be a defensive guy ...but did it much better than expected , he turned the Knicks into a defensive powerhouse , they went from 23rd to 3rd in defense ...without Frank, so what did he need to play him for?

the team only went from 28th to 23rd on offense and most of that improvement was Derrick Rose.

The Mavs on the other hand are led by a generational talent on offense in Luka who literally had the most efficient offense in nba history at the time in 2020, but also a defense that 18th in the league , last season that defense slipped to 20th .

in addition KP has been mediocre , a sore spot for the Mavs especially in the playoffs,

as a player Frank's skillset matches up, he can sit in a corner and make 3s and has been among the league's best in corner 3s the last 2 seasons , he's good defender and the Mavs have poor defenders at the point guard , in addition KP has proven chemistry with him, the player line ups featuring them both were the Knicks best. KP was even campaigning for Frank to start as a rookie alongside him.

I honestly think whereas Frank was superfluous as a Knick, he starts for the Mavs, or he doesn't play at all, it makes little sense to play him with Brunson with whom they would need more offense from other spots and Ntiikina provides that inconsistently , but with Luka and KP he wouldn't need to do anything offensively besides shoot corner 3s and feed KP the ball,

so i think it works out for him and them.


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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#223 » by FreeSpiritNY » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:46 pm

He was horrible here. But wish him the best. I’ll eat my words if he becomes good there I doubt it though.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#224 » by Gravy » Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:24 pm

MadGrinch wrote:The wild thing is Thibs did what is expected of him which was be a defensive guy ...but did it much better than expected , he turned the Knicks into a defensive powerhouse , they went from 23rd to 3rd in defense ...without Frank, so what did he need to play him for?

the team only went from 28th to 23rd on offense and most of that improvement was Derrick Rose.

The Mavs on the other hand are led by a generational talent on offense in Luka who literally had the most efficient offense in nba history at the time in 2020, but also a defense that 18th in the league , last season that defense slipped to 20th .

in addition KP has been mediocre , a sore spot for the Mavs especially in the playoffs,

as a player Frank's skillset matches up, he can sit in a corner and make 3s and has been among the league's best in corner 3s the last 2 seasons , he's good defender and the Mavs have poor defenders at the point guard , in addition KP has proven chemistry with him, the player line ups featuring them both were the Knicks best. KP was even campaigning for Frank to start as a rookie alongside him.

I honestly think whereas Frank was superfluous as a Knick, he starts for the Mavs, or he doesn't play at all, it makes little sense to play him with Brunson with whom they would need more offense from other spots and Ntiikina provides that inconsistently , but with Luka and KP he wouldn't need to do anything offensively besides shoot corner 3s and feed KP the ball,

so i think it works out for him and them.

You believe they would start Frank over Tim Hardaway or Reggie Bullock?
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#225 » by Capn'O » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:56 pm

^They might start him over Bullock to give the bench some punch if they feel the SL has enough offense. Obv Bullock is better but maybe he becomes a Super Sub. I think Frank will get minutes in Dallas either way but we'll see. He's guaranteed nothing.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#226 » by moocow007 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:02 pm

Gravy wrote:
MadGrinch wrote:The wild thing is Thibs did what is expected of him which was be a defensive guy ...but did it much better than expected , he turned the Knicks into a defensive powerhouse , they went from 23rd to 3rd in defense ...without Frank, so what did he need to play him for?

the team only went from 28th to 23rd on offense and most of that improvement was Derrick Rose.

The Mavs on the other hand are led by a generational talent on offense in Luka who literally had the most efficient offense in nba history at the time in 2020, but also a defense that 18th in the league , last season that defense slipped to 20th .

in addition KP has been mediocre , a sore spot for the Mavs especially in the playoffs,

as a player Frank's skillset matches up, he can sit in a corner and make 3s and has been among the league's best in corner 3s the last 2 seasons , he's good defender and the Mavs have poor defenders at the point guard , in addition KP has proven chemistry with him, the player line ups featuring them both were the Knicks best. KP was even campaigning for Frank to start as a rookie alongside him.

I honestly think whereas Frank was superfluous as a Knick, he starts for the Mavs, or he doesn't play at all, it makes little sense to play him with Brunson with whom they would need more offense from other spots and Ntiikina provides that inconsistently , but with Luka and KP he wouldn't need to do anything offensively besides shoot corner 3s and feed KP the ball,

so i think it works out for him and them.

You believe they would start Frank over Tim Hardaway or Reggie Bullock?


I can't see them doing that at all...at all. They signed him to basically a 1 year slightly above minimum deal to see what they have (with the remaining years team options). Unless he's going to suddenly go against everything we've seen about him and explode in preseason and training camp, there's about as much chance Deuce McBride has of starting for the Knicks as Frank starting for the Mavs.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#227 » by Gravy » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:29 pm

Capn'O wrote:^They might start him over Bullock to give the bench some punch if they feel the SL has enough offense. Obv Bullock is better but maybe he becomes a Super Sub. I think Frank will get minutes in Dallas either way but we'll see. He's guaranteed nothing.

So, their version of the Payton-Rose maneuver :o
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#228 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:38 pm

Capn'O wrote:^They might start him over Bullock to give the bench some punch if they feel the SL has enough offense. Obv Bullock is better but maybe he becomes a Super Sub. I think Frank will get minutes in Dallas either way but we'll see. He's guaranteed nothing.


… except this year’s salary! :D
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#229 » by Capn'O » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:42 pm

Gravy wrote:
Capn'O wrote:^They might start him over Bullock to give the bench some punch if they feel the SL has enough offense. Obv Bullock is better but maybe he becomes a Super Sub. I think Frank will get minutes in Dallas either way but we'll see. He's guaranteed nothing.

So, their version of the Payton-Rose maneuver :o


:lol: something like that though it wouldn't be as much of a liability because he's not the lead guard. More like how the Spurs used to start guys like George Hill and Keith Bogans over Ginobili.

Mind you, this only works if he pulls his big boy pants up and doesn't totally blow chunks.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#230 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:47 pm

Locked On Knicks just did a podcast devoted to Frank. Interesting listen. Covers both sides.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#231 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:32 pm

Luka will be a nice complimentary piece next to Frank
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#232 » by Kampuchea » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:36 pm

Capn'O wrote:^They might start him over Bullock to give the bench some punch if they feel the SL has enough offense. Obv Bullock is better but maybe he becomes a Super Sub. I think Frank will get minutes in Dallas either way but we'll see. He's guaranteed nothing.


I see almost no chance that Frank is starting in Dallas over Reggie, would be shocking.

Bullock and his quick release 3's is going to be great with Doncic, he fits well next to ball-dominant players who draw attention and give him room for his quick shot.


Is Frank starting over Reggie just daydreaming or do people actually think it may happen?
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#233 » by moocow007 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:55 pm

My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys. And yes, I can be honest about anyone else as well if we want to discuss. Just that Frank seems to still be such a hot topic of discussion.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#234 » by Jay10 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:05 pm

moocow007 wrote:My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys.


You forgot Kristaps is also on their roster so the opposing teams can't just focus on Luka.

Frank and Reggie play different kinds of defense.

Frank stands his ground when defending the opposing ball handler, while Reggie is always backing up, which is literally allowing the ball handler to get to their spots on the court.

People like to use defensive stats when talking about Reggie's defense, but when you watch the game, he's always chasing the ball handler from being because he's always getting beaten off the dribble.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#235 » by robillionaire » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:15 pm

moocow007 wrote:My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys.


I appreciate the attempt to be realistic and honest, however I expect Frank to take the starting PG job from Luka by the end of the year, once they see how much his defense impacts games and when they see how great his chemistry is with KP, THJ, and Bullock. Luka might just be the odd man out if they don't want to give up 130 ppg. If the Mavs can't see this, Cuban should fire the entire front office and sell the team. If he was smart he would hire Clarence Gaines.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#236 » by moocow007 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:32 pm

robillionaire wrote:
moocow007 wrote:My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys.


I appreciate the attempt to be realistic and honest, however I expect Frank to take the starting PG job from Luka by the end of the year, once they see how much his defense impacts games and when they see how great his chemistry is with KP, THJ, and Bullock. Luka might just be the odd man out if they don't want to give up 130 ppg. If the Mavs can't see this, Cuban should fire the entire front office and sell the team. If he was smart he would hire Clarence Gaines.


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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#237 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:28 pm

moocow007 wrote:My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys. And yes, I can be honest about anyone else as well if we want to discuss. Just that Frank seems to still be such a hot topic of discussion.

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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#238 » by 2ThouTeninator » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:39 am

It is funny that the Mavs trolled us after drafting DSj and we drafted Frank. The wheel keeps on spinning, where it stops nobody knows.
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#239 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:43 am

robillionaire wrote:
moocow007 wrote:My take on Frank starting with the Mavs especially focused on the rationale that he proved he can be a real good 3 point shooter from the corner...

Yes. Frank shot a crazy percentage from 3 last season at an eye popping 47.9%. And yep most of them were corner 3's. Great right? But that percentage was only based on 48 total attempts last season and accounted for just 1.5 attempts per game. So I don't know that that's proof that he's now a 3 point shooter forget about a starting caliber 3 point shooter.

But let's assume that his 3 point shooting really did drastically improve sufficient to be a bench 3 and D type player. We now need to try to determine whether that 1.5 attempts per game will translate if he were to move into the starting lineup and take an average number of attempts that a starting 3&D player takes (which in today's NBA is roughly 6 3-point attempts a game).

We're talking about transitioning from a situational only when you see the opportunity bench shooter to someone that actually has to shoot in volume and with opposing defenses more focused on you. One of the things about shooting 3's is the getting good looks at the basket right? It's basketball 101.

So what creates good open looks? One of the main things about starting caliber SG's is that they can score...not just shoot...but score. Talking about their ability score on multiple levels. It forces opposing defenders and defenses honest, leaving them guessing and not allowing the defenders/defensives to focus on defending that offensive player one way. Right?

To which, while Frank shot a heck of great 47.9% from 3 last season, he shot an absolutely abysmal 19.4% from 2. That is just brutal. It really highlighted the fact that he simply could not create anything offensively other than shooting a 3.

Now if we are going to assume that the 47.9% is for real (or near real) we should be fair and assume that that 19.4% from 2 is also quite real (or near real). At which point, a starting caliber SG that shoots only 19.4% from 2? I don't know of any starting SG that basically can't do anything but shoot 3's. And before anyone mention a guy like Danny Green (3&D guy that started most of his career that wasn't spectacular offensively), the lowest 2 point % Green ever managed in a season was 37.6%.

Will having Luca Doncic on the team help get Frank better (quicker) looks from the corner? Sure. But Luca can only do so much when his backcourt running mate can't do anything for himself off the dribble. Not only that, it now allow opposing teams to focus more of the defense on him. Realize the Mavs offense (especially in crunch time) is basically just Luca CLEARLY the most dominant player. Now you want to replace a guy like THJr who, as many faults as he has, actually is a scorer, for a guy (Frank) that has never shown he can even be a scorer off the bench? Just because of his defense? But even if so, ok, Reggie Bullock's defensive rating and DBPM was better than Franks last season. So he would be getting the starting nod (with THJr coming off the bench to provide bench offense...which they really don't need actually) over Frank cause Bullock at least actually showed he can take volume 3's befitting what a starting caliber player needs to take and make.

So again, Frank starting is a pie in the sky hope. Can he? Sure. Anything can happen. Quentin Grimes can turn out to be the Dillon Brooks (also a 2nd round pick who looks like he may be on his way to be a future star) and the Knicks would have struck gold in the 2nd round.

And no this is not an attempt to deface the greatness that is (or will be) Frank. It's about trying to be realistic and honest here guys.


I appreciate the attempt to be realistic and honest, however I expect Frank to take the starting PG job from Luka by the end of the year, once they see how much his defense impacts games and when they see how great his chemistry is with KP, THJ, and Bullock. Luka might just be the odd man out if they don't want to give up 130 ppg. If the Mavs can't see this, Cuban should fire the entire front office and sell the team. If he was smart he would hire Clarence Gaines.


Finally, a dose of realism from you
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Re: OT: Frank Ntilikina to the mavs!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Post#240 » by MadGrinch » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:32 am

Gravy wrote:
MadGrinch wrote:The wild thing is Thibs did what is expected of him which was be a defensive guy ...but did it much better than expected , he turned the Knicks into a defensive powerhouse , they went from 23rd to 3rd in defense ...without Frank, so what did he need to play him for?

the team only went from 28th to 23rd on offense and most of that improvement was Derrick Rose.

The Mavs on the other hand are led by a generational talent on offense in Luka who literally had the most efficient offense in nba history at the time in 2020, but also a defense that 18th in the league , last season that defense slipped to 20th .

in addition KP has been mediocre , a sore spot for the Mavs especially in the playoffs,

as a player Frank's skillset matches up, he can sit in a corner and make 3s and has been among the league's best in corner 3s the last 2 seasons , he's good defender and the Mavs have poor defenders at the point guard , in addition KP has proven chemistry with him, the player line ups featuring them both were the Knicks best. KP was even campaigning for Frank to start as a rookie alongside him.

I honestly think whereas Frank was superfluous as a Knick, he starts for the Mavs, or he doesn't play at all, it makes little sense to play him with Brunson with whom they would need more offense from other spots and Ntiikina provides that inconsistently , but with Luka and KP he wouldn't need to do anything offensively besides shoot corner 3s and feed KP the ball,

so i think it works out for him and them.

You believe they would start Frank over Tim Hardaway or Reggie Bullock?


I think its more about need vs. who is better ...and its worth noting Timmy didn't start the majority of games for the Mavs last season anyway(30 starts of 70 games played) I don't think you'd say Josh Richardson or Finney-Smith were the better player even though the started more often.
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