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PG: Pistons vs Knicks

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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#101 » by mpharris36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:41 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:we need more from rj than Randle at this point or we’re just going to rely on Randle to bail us out with tough shots to win like he did last night. that was basically all we did last season as well. rj doesn’t look like he’s taking any leap this year. people hate it when we say this but it’s the truth, he’s just a good role player. i don’t see star


More so than his offense. I think the jump we need to see from RJ is on the defensive end. With the new acquisitions we are lacking a true perimeter defender in our rotation. I think guys like Kemba/Rose as well as Fournier/Burks and potential someone like IQ on some nights which you mentioned can hopefully bridge that gap to Julius just playing hero ball at the end of the game.

But I liked what I saw from RJ defensively so far. I think he had some great moments vs Beal and I think he defended Josh Jackson pretty well too.

Game 1 its likely like RJ will be either on Brown (if he's back from COVID) or Tatum. So his value this year IMO will be of a 2-way player.

his defense looks better but offensively he pretty much looks like the same player. i was hoping he would improve on that end so he can take a bigger role and take off some of the load off Randle but it doesn’t look like it’s happening. i hate that we have to rely on an aging kemba so much to help out Randle. we look like the same Knicks as last year with no kemba. just Randle bailing us out with extremely tough shots which is not how you want to win ideally.


Honestly though if we get 16-18 ppg again with +40% from 3 from RJ with him being relied on being our top perimeter/wing defender I think that is a pretty good step.

I mean we did pay Fournier a good chunk of money to be an additional scorer too. So if its not Kemba, fournier also has to pull his weight.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#102 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 pm

also i think bullocks defense has gotten overrated. i don’t recall this guy locking up elite players and I actually remember him getting lit up by stars quite often. i don’t really see a big drop off on defense with him gone. rj should be just as good there if not better and I think Fournier can be solid as the season goes on
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#103 » by mpharris36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:RJ had 6 assists last night too. I think that is a step in the right direction. Ultimately I would love for him to be a better finisher at the rim but simply making the right play in terms of getting his teammates involved is a step in the right direction as well. He set up Taj a few times for an easy basket.


RJ had a bad shooting game but still put up 12/7/6. He made some nice set-up passes. He seems like he's a 2-way swiss army knife player that can do a little bit of everything which is valuable right now. Just eye test, he looks a little better on the floor. His defense looks great. Just have to see how he progress's. He may not be a star overnight, but wouldn't rule him out getting there one day.


His defense looks really good to me and a lot will be on his plate in terms of being our best 2-way player. He's going to be guarding the best perimeter offensive player on most nights.

If 12/7/6 with good defense is going to be one of his "off" nights. I think thats a something I am willing to live with.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#104 » by HEZI » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm

RJ definitely looks like he improved on his jumper and free throws. Those were two of his biggest weaknesses and he looks like he’s worked and improved on them.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#105 » by mpharris36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:47 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:also i think bullocks defense has gotten overrated. i don’t recall this guy locking up elite players and I actually remember him getting lit up by stars quite often. i don’t really see a big drop off on defense with him gone. rj should be just as good there if not better and I think Fournier can be solid as the season goes on


I agree, I never considered Bullock a lock down defender. He was far from it but he usually took the best offensive perimeter player assignment. Regardless of effectiveness its still requires extra focus and effort to play on both ends. Bullock wasn't really required to do much offensive for us outside of space the floor.

For a 21 year old if the next step you are looking for is a 20 pt scorer that is also our best 2-way player that is on of the best players in the NBA, no?
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#106 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:47 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:we need more from rj than Randle at this point or we’re just going to rely on Randle to bail us out with tough shots to win like he did last night. that was basically all we did last season as well. rj doesn’t look like he’s taking any leap this year. people hate it when we say this but it’s the truth, he’s just a good role player. i don’t see star

I'm not expecting RJ to make that leap yet. If it ever happens, it'll materialize in year 4 or 5 in my opinion. He was rawer as a prospect than people thought, so it'll take him time.

Julius and RJ are quite similar as players, except Randle's further along in his development (and flat-out better) because of age. Maybe RJ will never catch up to him, maybe he will, I don't know.

But neither is efficient, nor athletic, nor can they finish at the rim, although Julius is better at it than RJ.

Bottom line is they both need to become more efficient in their respective roles. Julius as the star, RJ as a role player.

I guess I have higher expectations for Randle because of his age and his contract extension.

i have high expectations for RJ since we drafted him #3 overall and theres a lot of hype around him as a future star. it’s disappointing to see any growth in his game so far. his defense looks a little better but that’s about it. offensively we need him to be more than a role player or teams will just focus on Randle in the playoffs like the hawks did and we’ll be fked again


He improved a ton last year and the season didnt even start. How can you be disappointed in his growth?
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#107 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
More so than his offense. I think the jump we need to see from RJ is on the defensive end. With the new acquisitions we are lacking a true perimeter defender in our rotation. I think guys like Kemba/Rose as well as Fournier/Burks and potential someone like IQ on some nights which you mentioned can hopefully bridge that gap to Julius just playing hero ball at the end of the game.

But I liked what I saw from RJ defensively so far. I think he had some great moments vs Beal and I think he defended Josh Jackson pretty well too.

Game 1 its likely like RJ will be either on Brown (if he's back from COVID) or Tatum. So his value this year IMO will be of a 2-way player.

his defense looks better but offensively he pretty much looks like the same player. i was hoping he would improve on that end so he can take a bigger role and take off some of the load off Randle but it doesn’t look like it’s happening. i hate that we have to rely on an aging kemba so much to help out Randle. we look like the same Knicks as last year with no kemba. just Randle bailing us out with extremely tough shots which is not how you want to win ideally.


Honestly though if we get 16-18 ppg again with +40% from 3 from RJ with him being relied on being our top perimeter/wing defender I think that is a pretty good step.

I mean we did pay Fournier a good chunk of money to be an additional scorer too. So if its not Kemba, fournier also has to pull his weight.

rj is good at what he does as a role player. just want him to be more than that since we drafted him #3. we need him to be able to get buckets on his own. he’s still the same. jacking up spot up 3’s or driving to the rim which he’s not really good at.

tbh I have my doubts about Fournier showing up every night. I get streaky vibes from him
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#108 » by rajajackal » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:54 pm

now that he's got his 3 ball down, RJ just has to polish his middy and he'll be fine
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#109 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:58 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:also i think bullocks defense has gotten overrated. i don’t recall this guy locking up elite players and I actually remember him getting lit up by stars quite often. i don’t really see a big drop off on defense with him gone. rj should be just as good there if not better and I think Fournier can be solid as the season goes on


I agree, I never considered Bullock a lock down defender. He was far from it but he usually took the best offensive perimeter player assignment. Regardless of effectiveness its still requires extra focus and effort to play on both ends. Bullock wasn't really required to do much offensive for us outside of space the floor.

For a 21 year old if the next step you are looking for is a 20 pt scorer that is also our best 2-way player that is on of the best players in the NBA, no?

for a third year wing that was picked 3rd in his draft I am expecting some ability to create shots off the dribble. don’t really see it. he just screams good role player. will hit the open 3 and play defense.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#110 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:02 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:I'm not expecting RJ to make that leap yet. If it ever happens, it'll materialize in year 4 or 5 in my opinion. He was rawer as a prospect than people thought, so it'll take him time.

Julius and RJ are quite similar as players, except Randle's further along in his development (and flat-out better) because of age. Maybe RJ will never catch up to him, maybe he will, I don't know.

But neither is efficient, nor athletic, nor can they finish at the rim, although Julius is better at it than RJ.

Bottom line is they both need to become more efficient in their respective roles. Julius as the star, RJ as a role player.

I guess I have higher expectations for Randle because of his age and his contract extension.

i have high expectations for RJ since we drafted him #3 overall and theres a lot of hype around him as a future star. it’s disappointing to see any growth in his game so far. his defense looks a little better but that’s about it. offensively we need him to be more than a role player or teams will just focus on Randle in the playoffs like the hawks did and we’ll be fked again


He improved a ton last year and the season didnt even start. How can you be disappointed in his growth?

the season already started with the way Thibs is playing the starters :lol:

it’s disappointing that he still can’t create off the dribble. and I’m not the only one who feels that way. you think we’re “trolling” when we call him a good role player but what exactly makes him as a future super star if he can’t create his own shot?
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#111 » by mpharris36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:02 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:his defense looks better but offensively he pretty much looks like the same player. i was hoping he would improve on that end so he can take a bigger role and take off some of the load off Randle but it doesn’t look like it’s happening. i hate that we have to rely on an aging kemba so much to help out Randle. we look like the same Knicks as last year with no kemba. just Randle bailing us out with extremely tough shots which is not how you want to win ideally.


Honestly though if we get 16-18 ppg again with +40% from 3 from RJ with him being relied on being our top perimeter/wing defender I think that is a pretty good step.

I mean we did pay Fournier a good chunk of money to be an additional scorer too. So if its not Kemba, fournier also has to pull his weight.

rj is good at what he does as a role player. just want him to be more than that since we drafted him #3. we need him to be able to get buckets on his own. he’s still the same. jacking up spot up 3’s or driving to the rim which he’s not really good at.

tbh I have my doubts about Fournier showing up every night. I get streaky vibes from him


I think you are selling him short on just calling him a role player. Mikal Bridges is a role player (and a very good one for that fact).

RJ nearly avg 18 ppg last year. If he adds being a top tier 2-way player I wouldn't call that a role player. I mean he was a couple pts and assists from putting up Khris Middelton type per game production as a 20 year old last year. I see that as pretty solid growth.

His TS% took a huge leap last year from 48% to nearly 54%. If he can get closer to league avg 56-57% while maintaining his near 18ppg this year which I think is possible. Plus being our best 2-way player. I think that is great growth for a 21 year old kid especially for where he was as a rookie.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#112 » by JohnStarksTheDunk » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:11 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
RJ had a bad shooting game but still put up 12/7/6. He made some nice set-up passes. He seems like he's a 2-way swiss army knife player that can do a little bit of everything which is valuable right now. Just eye test, he looks a little better on the floor. His defense looks great. Just have to see how he progress's. He may not be a star overnight, but wouldn't rule him out getting there one day.


Yep, in a sort of Michael Finley way.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#113 » by KnicksFTW » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:12 pm

Give it time...

I think we need to give till January to see if RJ can show us more than hitting corner 3s.

He needs to add some finesse to his game.

He has a few moves to the basket that the defense reads; he needs to be more patient and understand how the defender is guarding him and adjust based on that. I've never seen this dude even try a pump fake. If you have that corner 3 down, pump fake on the close out, take a step in and hit an easy 2.

His handles and finishing ability needs work but for now since we got weapons, there will be some growing pains and not at the cost of the W/L column.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#114 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:13 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:we need more from rj than Randle at this point or we’re just going to rely on Randle to bail us out with tough shots to win like he did last night. that was basically all we did last season as well. rj doesn’t look like he’s taking any leap this year. people hate it when we say this but it’s the truth, he’s just a good role player. i don’t see star

I'm not expecting RJ to make that leap yet. If it ever happens, it'll materialize in year 4 or 5 in my opinion. He was rawer as a prospect than people thought, so it'll take him time.

Julius and RJ are quite similar as players, except Randle's further along in his development (and flat-out better) because of age. Maybe RJ will never catch up to him, maybe he will, I don't know.

But neither is efficient, nor athletic, nor can they finish at the rim, although Julius is better at it than RJ.

Bottom line is they both need to become more efficient in their respective roles. Julius as the star, RJ as a role player.

I guess I have higher expectations for Randle because of his age and his contract extension.

i have high expectations for RJ since we drafted him #3 overall and theres a lot of hype around him as a future star. it’s disappointing to see any growth in his game so far. his defense looks a little better but that’s about it. offensively we need him to be more than a role player or teams will just focus on Randle in the playoffs like the hawks did and we’ll be fked again

Thibs now has the option to play multiple guys who can create their own shot if RJ doesn't have it going.

Rose, Kemba, IQ, Burks, Fournier... I don't think he'll hesitate to bench RJ if he can't provide the level of shot creation the team needs.

It's true we must keep high (but realistic) expectations for RJ. I just always thought it would take him longer to get there than advertised. If he still can't finish at the rim or doesn't show any semblance of shot creation by year 4, then I'll start to worry. His movements seem more fluid this preseason by the way, so I think he's starting to get more comfortable.

Neither RJ nor Randle has excuses to be inefficient this year, I'll put it that way.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#115 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:14 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i have high expectations for RJ since we drafted him #3 overall and theres a lot of hype around him as a future star. it’s disappointing to see any growth in his game so far. his defense looks a little better but that’s about it. offensively we need him to be more than a role player or teams will just focus on Randle in the playoffs like the hawks did and we’ll be fked again


He improved a ton last year and the season didnt even start. How can you be disappointed in his growth?

the season already started with the way Thibs is playing the starters :lol:

it’s disappointing that he still can’t create off the dribble. and I’m not the only one who feels that way. you think we’re “trolling” when we call him a good role player but what exactly makes him as a future super star if he can’t create his own shot?


Its fair if you dont think he will be a star or if you dont like his game. But you guys are def trolling when you call him RJ Bullocks or say to trade him in every thread :lol:

Maybe he will never be great at creating his own shot off the dribble or iso'ing. But he can still be a good player and key contributor by doing a bunch of things. I dont know what everyone's defintion of a role player is, but think he can be more then that....a really good starter at the least. He did improve a ton already too so I just wouldnt sleep on him to keep on improving...just may not all happen at once.
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#116 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:17 pm

Mount Rushmore of RJ haters

1. Wingo
2. DaGawd
3. Elfrid Payton
4. 3toheadmelo
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#117 » by DaGawd » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:17 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:also i think bullocks defense has gotten overrated. i don’t recall this guy locking up elite players and I actually remember him getting lit up by stars quite often. i don’t really see a big drop off on defense with him gone. rj should be just as good there if not better and I think Fournier can be solid as the season goes on

This trae young cooked him and whoever else we put on him in the playoffs. Bullock is no lockdown defender. RJ should easily be able to match what he brought on that end
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#118 » by damedash09 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:19 pm

Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play
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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#119 » by mpharris36 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:20 pm

damedash09 wrote:Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play


Grimes a better player than RJ?

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Re: PG: Pistons vs Knicks 

Post#120 » by DaGawd » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:21 pm

damedash09 wrote:Look like a copy of last season relying on randle

Rj is hit or miss - my bold prediction is that grimes will be the better player . He needs to play

I really think he can be way better than RJ offensively
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