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We need a post threat (best suited at the 5). How about Daniel Oturu?

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We need a post threat (best suited at the 5). How about Daniel Oturu? 

Post#1 » by finestrg » Mon Nov 8, 2021 2:47 pm

I see the 5 spot as a position we need to upgrade badly. Just can't go out there and play 4 on 5 offensively with either Mitch or Noel for most of the game, if not the entire game every night.

Mitch - I think it was a mistake to add more weight, esp. coming back from a foot injury (think about that for a sec -- did that make any sense? Who the heck puts on more weight ON PURPOSE when coming back from a foot injury??? i don't even understand how the team didn't tell him not to do that, so some of this part might be on them). Look, Mitch is who he is man -- limited offensively, we all know that, but at least in the past, he was much more spry, bouncy and quicker on defense. I understand he's still working his way back 100% and that may have something to do with it... First off right away, I don't see how adding the extra weight has helped him. This guy needed to add a drop-step, an up-an-under post move, a little baby hook shot, I dunno something offensively, not more weight. Needed to work on his FTs too, to be honest -- what's up with those line drive missiles he shoots at the line??? Jesus man -- how does either Mitch or the team think that's gonna work moving forward? All off-season he's had to work on this (this wouldn't have had any stress impact on the foot too btw), yet it doesn't look like he's worked on that at all. Just so awkward-looking out there (even his body language after getting hit with a foul call, shaking his head, etc. -- just so goofy-looking and awkward)....I'm willing to give him another 10 games or so just to round back into top aerobic condition -- he may not be there--I get it, so he needs to get there first (and maybe in the process, drop 5-10 lbs). Let's see if that could help him.. Bottom line with this guy -- I'm just praying he can get back to what he was before the foot injury -- I'll settle for that, where he gets his full wind back, etc.. If by that time, though, all we're seeing is more of the same -- I don't see how the heck we even entertain giving him any kind of a contract extension at big bucks or semi-big bucks. Even what Noel just got -- how do we even pay him that?!?

Speaking of Noel -- glad he's back, but another awkward, incomplete player. He and Mitch providing nothing on the offensive end is a huge problem for this team. Noel is a good defensive player, so want to give him credit there. Not only a very good shot-blocker, he's got lightning quick hands on D too, always looking to poke a ball loose, he gets a lot of deflections, etc.. I think this part of his game gets overlooked a little and he gets credit from me here... But then on offense, like Mitch there's not much there.. As good as his hands are on D, they're just as bad on O. You throw this dude a pass, and he fumbles it almost every time. And even if he does catch it. provided it's not a direct lob pass, what's he doing with it??? I like NN, but sadly ike Mitch, just no offensive moves to speak of at all.

Just take a quick look at this vid starting at the 2:24 mark. Look when Rose gets the ball at 2:28 -- Mitch doesn't even try to post up, and Randle's all the way out high elbow (because that's his game -- Randle's a freelancer 4 man out there on O who wants the ball 20-25' from the basket and wants to create, either for himself or for others. Not even trying to knock him, that's his game. But the point is he's not even a real post up player either). What option does Rose even have there but to create something out of nothing.


So what's the solution?

Can't go out and make any crazy moves to take on a lot of salary -- can't do that unless we're adding a star or a guy we're sure will have a big impact...However, we can still add to the puzzle in conservative ways, as in ok, if this doesn't work out, we're no worse for the wear and we move on, no harm done to the cap.

Daniel Oturu comes to mind immediately. And go ahead - I know I'm gonna hear some **** on this again, but F it, bring it!

I think right now, we have to admit that not drafting Daniel Oturu when we had a chance was a mistake. I can't believe they looked at that pick as "Veron Carey or trade it." Dude averaged something like 20/11/2.5 blocks in college...Where is it that they saw a guy who absolutely couldn't have helped them in the middle?? I mean maybe if we had kept that pick, we could've saved the money we used to sign Noel, or could very well save the money it'll take to re-sign Mitch eventually. Plus, we would've had a legit 6'10"/ 240 lb. long post-up-all-the-way-out-to-3 offensive big man, who also would've rebounded and protected the rim. What more could any team in need of help in the middle have asked for there with that pick at 33 a couple of years ago??? Look this kid needs work too, I get it, but just look at his game compared to Jericho Sims' game (I get he got picked about 25 slots higher in the 2nd round than Sims in different drafts, but man, so much more promising a big man than Sims in all areas, it's not even close. This guy should be part of our mix now, heck even part of our rotation. Almost a full year younger than Jericho Sims too btw.. I think Leon and co. have done a very good job reshaping this roster and being mindful of the cap, but sorry, this one little move we didn't execute on continues to bother me...Ok so rant over.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Knicks try to make a move to get him back RIGHT NOW. Just looking at his Wiki page -- I think he might be a FA. He got waived by a few different teams since we traded him to the Clippers on draft night a couple of years ago -- I believe waived by the Clippers, Memphis, and the Bulls. I think he's playing for the Windy City Bulls (the Bulls' G-League team) but don't think he has any ties to the Bulls' parent club. I say waive Wayne Selden and go get Oturu right now, at the very least. I wouldn't even mind seeing the Knicks waive Sims and replace him with Oturu. He's younger and flat out better/more skilled.


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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#2 » by DaGawd » Mon Nov 8, 2021 3:12 pm

See what we have with Sims
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#3 » by spree2kawhi » Mon Nov 8, 2021 3:28 pm

I loved when guard play dominated the block like Kobe‘s or Jordan‘s.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#4 » by robillionaire » Mon Nov 8, 2021 5:54 pm

Oh my god dude I’m glad I skimmed this to get to the Oturu part before I read the whole wall

Is he even still in the nba
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#5 » by finestrg » Mon Nov 8, 2021 8:02 pm

robillionaire wrote:Oh my god dude I’m glad I skimmed this to get to the Oturu part before I read the whole wall

Is he even still in the nba


Ok, I'll give you the Cliff's Notes version -- Mitch and Noel are too one dimensional. Both bring some things on D but both are inefficient on O. I'd love to add a post threat somehow, and as of right now, I don't want to add a lot of salary while we're still building this up. Our two best offensive bigs are Randle and Toppin and even they aren't legit post players. I think that type of added dimension could really help us by creating better balance offensively...I don't even know about resigning Mitch anymore, even for the money Noel just got from us (3 yrs/$27.720 mm). How do we justify paying two centers close to $60mm in combined salary and neither one of them can do anything offensively besides catch and dunk a lob pass? And that's assuming we can even get Mitch for that price -- I bet he thinks he deserves more than that and some team out there may want to give him more eventually.. That's fine -- just don't know if we should.

So without adding anymore significant salary at the moment or orchestrating some big trade where we'll have to give up a ton of these assets that we've worked so hard to accumulate (and that I'd like to keep around for a no-brainer trade for KAT or someone maybe, not for a 'maybe he'll work' type), what other players should we be looking at, on a different tier? That's where Oturu comes in for me. I looked earlier -- I don't think he's part of the Bulls roster at the moment (I could be wrong, but I don't think he's on their official 15-man, and I don't believe he's one of their two 2-way players either). He was waived by Chicago and decided to hang around and play for their GL affiliate. But as far as I can see, he's a FA, free to sign with anyone right now. This guy would be perfect -- again, 6'10" 240, long and skilled. He's got game offensively from the post all the way out to 3.. Plus, when you factor in his rebounding and his ability to protect the rim, I think he's pound for pound a better talent over Mitch, Noel and Sims. Heck, if we had Oturu right now, he'd be my starting 5 man, hands down.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#6 » by finestrg » Mon Nov 8, 2021 8:17 pm

DaGawd wrote:See what we have with Sims


I wouldn't mind waiting on him either perfect world, but to me, Daniel Oturu is a lot further along as a player over Sims in just about ever facet of the game. Almost a full year younger too. It's a swap I make yesterday. To me, you're talking about swapping out a player who one day could be Jarrett Allen (maybe) for a player who has the potential to be a hybrid of a more physical Myles Turner/Al Horford. And he's available right now. Or heck, cut Wayne Selden and keep both Oturu and Sims. Oturu is a guy I'd like to give out a two-way contract to though, and I know Sims has that (along with the promising big who used to play for SA), so if we ever entertained getting Oturu and we wanted to protect him with that same type of deal, we prob. would have to cut Sims to import this guy. Though I'm not sure on this... Bottom line for me though, we should in no way feel like we're married to Jericho Sims.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#7 » by knickstape21 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 9:54 pm

Didn’t read but if we had Myles Turner and SGA, I legit think we’d win it all…
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#8 » by F N 11 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 10:02 pm

Myles Turner tbh, there’s no space. Mitch be having guys getting doubled in the paint. Only way RJ can score in paint is if he uses Mitch as the roll guy to get him up outta there lol.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#9 » by finestrg » Tue Nov 9, 2021 12:27 pm

With Robinson out last night (fatigue, hip flexor) and Noel hurting now (back, knee), I think Oturu makes even more sense to take a flier on.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#10 » by prophet_of_rage » Tue Nov 9, 2021 5:42 pm

finestrg wrote:With Robinson out last night (fatigue, hip flexor) and Noel hurting now (back, knee), I think Oturu makes even more sense to take a flier on.
How long will they be out?

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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#11 » by moocow007 » Tue Nov 9, 2021 5:55 pm

Someone like Jonas Valanciunas (who signed with the Pelicans for 2 years $30 million) would have been a real nice fit for this team as the starting C. They could have signed him this past offseason and it would have cost them nothing in terms of assets.

So far this season? Valanciunas is averaging 19.5ppg, 13.9rpg, 2.7apg, 1.3bpg, 51.3%fg, 57.9%3pt, 88.9%ft. Valanciunas has always been a strong defender and now he's also got quite an offensive repertoire that extends out to 3pt range. $15 million a year would have been a steal but...yeah...we got Nerlens Noel for $9 million a year. :roll:

I had mentioned Valanciunas a few times on the NBNF podcast as a guy that I liked and thought would be an excellent fit.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#12 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:08 pm

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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#13 » by Richard4444 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:09 am

moocow007 wrote:Someone like Jonas Valanciunas (who signed with the Pelicans for 2 years $30 million) would have been a real nice fit for this team as the starting C. They could have signed him this past offseason and it would have cost them nothing in terms of assets.

So far this season? Valanciunas is averaging 19.5ppg, 13.9rpg, 2.7apg, 1.3bpg, 51.3%fg, 57.9%3pt, 88.9%ft. Valanciunas has always been a strong defender and now he's also got quite an offensive repertoire that extends out to 3pt range. $15 million a year would have been a steal but...yeah...we got Nerlens Noel for $9 million a year. :roll:

I had mentioned Valanciunas a few times on the NBNF podcast as a guy that I liked and thought would be an excellent fit.


But The Pelicans to get JV had to
- trade down from 10 to 17 in the last year draft.
- Give away 2022 lottery-protected pick

Or do you consider this price is only to unload 35/2 Adams contract?
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#14 » by Richard4444 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:17 am

I am getting pessimistic about Mitch.

Can we trade for any of these guys without giving away too many assets: Turner, JV, Allen, Holmes, TimeLord, Gafford, Nurkic (Although he is kind of injury-prone as well), Wood, Bamba?

Maybe if their team fails to compete this season, they could try a rebuild or retool and put them in the block.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#15 » by finestrg » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:01 pm

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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#16 » by finestrg » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:31 pm

Two adjustments I'd make right now -

(1) Jettison either Jericho Sims or Wayne Selden and sign Daniel Oruru. Oturu's about a year younger than Sims and much further along as a player with better skills, so this swap for a younger, more talented/more NBA-ready big man makes all the sense in the world to me.. Or, swap him in for Wayne Selden, who's basically window dressing on this team (this year's Theo Pinson). I think Selden is actually a decent player to be honest, but he has no role on this team at all except cheerleader. If there ever were a rash of injuries to our rotation wings, you would think guys like Grimes and even Knox would play ahead of Selden, and they're not even playing.

Otruru was waived by the Chicago Bulls on 9/27/2021. He's now an affiliate player playing for the Windy City Bulls in the GL. I had to look up 'affiliate player' just to be sure what that meant -- an affiliate player has no ties to the parent club and is technically a FA that is free to sign with any other NBA team. So this would be step one -- bring in Daniel Oturu on a low-cost/ultra low risk move just to see if we could uncover an NBA-ready 5 man that can score the ball and do other things like rebound the ball and protect the rim as well - I think this guy can do all of that! So i think Oturu over Sims or Selden would improve the roster.

And if we wanted to go a step further as far as beefing up talent in the middle, I still say Skal Labissiere would be a good get. I know we had him on the Westchester GL club for a little while last season and obviously didn't like what we saw (he even had several DNPs and as far as i knew, he was healthy), but this kid can play. Only 25, long and skilled offensively. And like Oturu, I think he would rebound and help protect the tin with that length. Also a FA.. When I was watching the game against the Cavs a few games back, watching Evan Mobley play, I immediately thought of Labissiere as a good comp.

Moves for Oturu and/or Labissiere are moves we should be looking at right now -- if they work out, great. If they don't, no harm no foul. Not like we'd be adding an major salary to the cap..

(2) Get Obi Toppin more mins. Thibs himself has even said the team plays well and looks better when Obi's on the floor. Ok, so get him more time now! Not only should he be getting all of the backup 4 mins when Randle's resting, but he needs to get mins at the 3 and also some at 5. If Fournier continues to basically be a non-factor for us out there, try Obi at the 3. I don't just want to hear people say he can't play 3 -- I need to see that he can't. And i think that's BS -- he can definitely play some 3. He's athletic and the handle looks greatly improved. Try it! What have we got to lose?
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#17 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:27 pm

Just make a "Is Mitch a bust/fraud?" thread.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#18 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:28 pm

finestrg wrote:Two adjustments I'd make right now -

(1) Jettison either Jericho Sims or Wayne Selden and sign Daniel Oruru. Oturu's about a year younger than Sims and much further along as a player with better skills, so this swap for a younger, more talented/more NBA-ready big man makes all the sense in the world to me.. Or, swap him in for Wayne Selden, who's basically window dressing on this team (this year's Theo Pinson). I think Selden is actually a decent player to be honest, but he has no role on this team at all except cheerleader. If there ever were a rash of injuries to our rotation wings, you would think guys like Grimes and even Knox would play ahead of Selden, and they're not even playing.

Otruru was waived by the Chicago Bulls on 9/27/2021. He's now an affiliate player playing for the Windy City Bulls in the GL. I had to look up 'affiliate player' just to be sure what that meant -- an affiliate player has no ties to the parent club and is technically a FA that is free to sign with any other NBA team. So this would be step one -- bring in Daniel Oturu on a low-cost/ultra low risk move just to see if we could uncover an NBA-ready 5 man that can score the ball and do other things like rebound the ball and protect the rim as well - I think this guy can do all of that! So i think Oturu over Sims or Selden would improve the roster.

And if we wanted to go a step further as far as beefing up talent in the middle, I still say Skal Labissiere would be a good get. I know we had him on the Westchester GL club for a little while last season and obviously didn't like what we saw (he even had several DNPs and as far as i knew, he was healthy), but this kid can play. Only 25, long and skilled offensively. And like Oturu, I think he would rebound and help protect the tin with that length. Also a FA.. When I was watching the game against the Cavs a few games back, watching Evan Mobley play, I immediately thought of Labissiere as a good comp.

Moves for Oturu and/or Labissiere are moves we should be looking at right now -- if they work out, great. If they don't, no harm no foul. Not like we'd be adding an major salary to the cap..

(2) Get Obi Toppin more mins. Thibs himself has even said the team plays well and looks better when Obi's on the floor. Ok, so get him more time now! Not only should he be getting all of the backup 4 mins when Randle's resting, but he needs to get mins at the 3 and also some at 5. If Fournier continues to basically be a non-factor for us out there, try Obi at the 3. I don't just want to hear people say he can't play 3 -- I need to see that he can't. And i think that's BS -- he can definitely play some 3. He's athletic and the handle looks greatly improved. Try it! What have we got to lose?


I need to see a Daniel Oturu scouting/highlights video first.
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#19 » by Nazrmohamed » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:59 pm

Thing about the Center position is there are very few versatile bigs and that's why Embiid is so awesome. They seemingly all fit into certain archetypes. For instance our guys are all rim runners. Plenty of teams do great with those types and many can generate 12pts easy and consistently running pick and roll all day long. Along with that you'll get excellent rebounding. But then we wish for a guy who can space the floor. Passing big men and them in many cases those lack the defense. The guy I like isn't gonna be the star of your team but I think he's versatile enough where you get a bit of everything and that's Miles Turner. What you you guys think of him
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Re: We need a post threat (best suited at the 5) 

Post#20 » by finestrg » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 am

Nazrmohamed wrote:Thing about the Center position is there are very few versatile bigs and that's why Embiid is so awesome. They seemingly all fit into certain archetypes. For instance our guys are all rim runners. Plenty of teams do great with those types and many can generate 12pts easy and consistently running pick and roll all day long. Along with that you'll get excellent rebounding. But then we wish for a guy who can space the floor. Passing big men and them in many cases those lack the defense. The guy I like isn't gonna be the star of your team but I think he's versatile enough where you get a bit of everything and that's Miles Turner. What you you guys think of him


I like Turner a lot but here's the thing --- the salary cap is slightly over $112.4 million. Per Hoopshype, the Knicks are currently a little over $120.05 million this season with the additions we made. Turner's current deal pays him $18mm this year and next. So with the Knicks being over the cap, we'd have to deal $18mm in salary to add him, give or take slightly. And then think about the picks Indy would also want included.

I'm just petrified of adding significant salary as we've be burned so many times in the past and it's set the team back years in order to dig out from the trouble we've gotten ourselves into. Cap management is probably the most important thing to be mindful of in the NBA when building a team. Once you cap yourself out, and god forbid you compound the problem by adding even more salary with the leeway provided in different ways, forget about it -- if you don't get that 100% right, you're cooked, maybe for years to come. That just scares the piss outta me now...It's why I'd love to try low cost options first. I'd love to see them take a shot on Oturu. Talking about the difference between a major trade with so many moving parts vs. cutting either a Wayne Selden or Jericho Sims and adding Oturu for what, $500k? I like that option much better for us right now. And what if we strike oil and Oturu winds up being just as good or even better than Turner? What if he turns into a better version of Al Horford? I'm not the sharpest tool in the drawer but I'd like to think I know talent when I see it and this kid Oturu checks off so many boxes, more boxes than Jericho Sims imho. If we added Oturu, I think pound for pound he'd quickly become our best 5 man on the roster. Take the shot here, Leon!

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