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Is Juluis Randle a fraud?

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Is Randle A Fraud?

Yes
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No
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Total votes: 101

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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#141 » by 2010 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:32 am

The Knick’ starting five is under the gun — holding the worst plus-minus in the league as a quintet. The minus-76 would rank as worst in NBA history if the season ended after 13 games.


“We had a great practice today, a great practice,” Rose said.

In an attempt to juice the quintet of Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, RJ Barrett, Julius Randle and Mitchell Robinson, Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau installed a little more play structure and less freelancing on Sunday. That freelancing mode may have resulted in an offense Fournier referred to as “stagnant.”


“The first group, they were doing a lot of play sets, moving the ball from one side to another, finding each other, talking,” Rose said. “That’s what we need. Especially on the road in the hostile environment where it’s hard. You got to be able to communicate and talk and be on the same page. That’s what we need.”

Thibodeau sounded like he is close, but not quite ready, to making a move if things don’t improve with the starting five…


“You want to make sure there’s a large enough sample size to tell you something,” Thibodeau said. “The first thing you ask [is] are we playing hard enough and executing properly? If what we’re doing is not good enough, that’s when you change.”

When asked directly by The Post if he’s mulling a lineup change for Monday’s game, Thibodeau said “no” but then added he had “a right to change my mind” in the near future.


The lack of chemistry between Walker and Randle, who both need the ball, is becoming evident.

“It’s easy to nitpick,” Thibodeau said. “In all fairness to Julius and Kemba, because of who they are, they probably get the brunt of what’s going on. The reality is we have to play well together as a group. It’s not one, two guys. We can say new guys, old guys. We can say first unit, second unit. We can say Kemba. The whole thing is we need our team as everyone together. That’s where the focus has to lie.”


The second unit plays with more speed with Rose pushing the ball more than Walker and Obi Toppin is a racehorse off the bench. In preseason, Thibodeau talked about picking up the pace for 48 minutes.

“We have to figure things out how we’re going to play,” Rose said unsolicited. “Are we going to run and be a fast-paced team or going to be a half-court team. It’s still early in the year to figure it out.”


https://nypost.com/2021/11/14/tom-thibodeau-makes-adjustments-to-fix-knicks-offense/
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#142 » by BugginOut » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:35 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
BugginOut wrote:This thread is going to look so stupid in a month, like every other reactionary thread this board makes

We got an allstar/all-NBA who is a guaranteed 20/10/5 every night on a below market contract.

Say what you want about Randle, but he is head and shoulders the best player on a winning team. If you want him to defer more get a player better than him. Every other player on this team, except Rose, looks scared to take a shot. Randle can’t force Kemba and Fournier to generate offense

Derrick Rose is our best player. All the regular season numbers point towards this, as does our record before and after the Rose trade, but it became crystal clear in the playoffs.

20-10-5 are raw numbers. If your scoring numbers are not efficient, and your assists are the byproduct of a style of play that's not actually conducive to team play, then these numbers are highly misleading. Westbrook's style of play has not been conducive to winning the last couple of years, yet he's been a 20-10-10 guy. Volume doesn't mean much when it's not accompanied by efficiency. Domantas Sabonis was also a 20-10-5 guy last year - is he a top 3 guy on a championship team? I don't think so. He's a 6th man on a great team imo.

All-Star, All-NBA are perception awards. They're in large part based on narratives - they're not necessarily rooted in facts.

Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer, David Lee, DeMarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond, Victor Oladipo all made All-NBA teams. None of these guys was a relevant NBA player in the grand scheme of things. History will not remember them. Their team simply overachieved one year, and one player had to get rewarded, however disproportionate. That's how it goes.

People fell for the hype with KP as well.

Julius is just another false prophet. He's KP part deux.

Last year Randle put up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency and was the top in almost every advance metric you can name. His stats translated to wins, no player you mentioned had a season close to the success Randle had except Oladipo and he fell off because of injuries.

Westbrook puts up numbers, but all the analytics show that his teams perform better without him. Randle was not like that last season.

Is Randle playing poorly this season? Yes. But so is our entire starting lineup and half the superstars in the league. Randle has still played a huge part in most of our wins so far and we still have a winning record.

If you want to say last season was a fluke, fine you can have that opinion, but to discount what Randle did last season as empty stats is disingenuous.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#143 » by F N 11 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:38 am

People continue to defend Randle like he didn’t have the selfish tendencies last year. We were last in assist last year while he racked up most of them. Last year we won because of defense and Derrick Rose.

Randle is not in a slump ladies and gentlemen. Randle is just being who he has always been. 1 quarter every other game is not enough for me, sorry.

He got going because he got to do the most chucking, now that we have a better all around offensive team, he still wants to do the same things.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#144 » by KnicksGod » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:47 am

Above is right unfortunately. Fraud seems harsh and personal for a non-GT but the tendencies are what they are really. He's not gonna become aware and intangible. That's not happening.

The most alarming thing is how he does when he's going downhill. He starts doing too much and being even more random instead of showing poise and going back to what he can do well. That's a very bad sign.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#145 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:48 am

BugginOut wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
BugginOut wrote:This thread is going to look so stupid in a month, like every other reactionary thread this board makes

We got an allstar/all-NBA who is a guaranteed 20/10/5 every night on a below market contract.

Say what you want about Randle, but he is head and shoulders the best player on a winning team. If you want him to defer more get a player better than him. Every other player on this team, except Rose, looks scared to take a shot. Randle can’t force Kemba and Fournier to generate offense

Derrick Rose is our best player. All the regular season numbers point towards this, as does our record before and after the Rose trade, but it became crystal clear in the playoffs.

20-10-5 are raw numbers. If your scoring numbers are not efficient, and your assists are the byproduct of a style of play that's not actually conducive to team play, then these numbers are highly misleading. Westbrook's style of play has not been conducive to winning the last couple of years, yet he's been a 20-10-10 guy. Volume doesn't mean much when it's not accompanied by efficiency. Domantas Sabonis was also a 20-10-5 guy last year - is he a top 3 guy on a championship team? I don't think so. He's a 6th man on a great team imo.

All-Star, All-NBA are perception awards. They're in large part based on narratives - they're not necessarily rooted in facts.

Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer, David Lee, DeMarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond, Victor Oladipo all made All-NBA teams. None of these guys was a relevant NBA player in the grand scheme of things. History will not remember them. Their team simply overachieved one year, and one player had to get rewarded, however disproportionate. That's how it goes.

People fell for the hype with KP as well.

Julius is just another false prophet. He's KP part deux.

Last year Randle put up 24/10/6 on league average efficiency and was the top in almost every advance metric you can name. His stats translated to wins, no player you mentioned had a season close to the success Randle had except Oladipo and he fell off because of injuries.

Westbrook puts up numbers, but all the analytics show that his teams perform better without him. Randle was not like that last season.

Is Randle playing poorly this season? Yes. But so is our entire starting lineup and half the superstars in the league. Randle has still played a huge part in most of our wins so far and we still have a winning record.

If you want to say last season was a fluke, fine you can have that opinion, but to discount what Randle did last season as empty stats is disingenuous.

I didn't say it was empty stats. I just don't think his impact was as significant as you (and the people who voted for him for All-NBA) make it out to be based on the raw statistical numbers.

The Knicks were only +0.3 points per 100 possessions better with Randle on the floor. The Wizards actually were +1.2 points per 100 possessions better with Westbrook on the floor, so the numbers actually seem to disprove your theory.

And what success did Randle have that these other guys didn't have? The Knicks lost 4-1 in the first round, in a series that wasn't competitive. Randle pulled one of the most epic choke jobs by an All-Star in NBA history. I would agree that he accomplished more than Cousins, who didn't even make the playoffs.

Rose was our MVP last year. We were heading straight back to the lottery without him.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#146 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:13 am

Are people not seeing Thibs' lack of structured offence is at the root of this. He allows Randle to play this way. He doesn't create basic sets for the players but allows freelancing.

Rose is just the dominant player on the bench, but IQ plays with the same lack of structure Randle does and Burks does as well.

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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#147 » by aq_ua » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:24 am

2010 wrote:
The second unit plays with more speed with Rose pushing the ball more than Walker and Obi Toppin is a racehorse off the bench. In preseason, Thibodeau talked about picking up the pace for 48 minutes.

“We have to figure things out how we’re going to play,” Rose said unsolicited. “Are we going to run and be a fast-paced team or going to be a half-court team. It’s still early in the year to figure it out.”


https://nypost.com/2021/11/14/tom-thibodeau-makes-adjustments-to-fix-knicks-offense/

Certainly seems we win more when we play with pace and our half-court execution is poor. Seems the question is less of whether we should play with pace, and more about whether it's personnel that's preventing us from doing so.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#148 » by FlashFlood » Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:34 am

Those incentives shed some light on why Randle is looking to iso so much. Listen, I dont think Randle is a fraud. Far from it, he's got the physical tools and skillset to be an elite forward in the league. How many guys can handle the rock, shoot the 3, and run the offense? And he's usually solid on defense too.

My problem is the way Julius is trying to play. Thibs needs to rein in the iso-heavy offense. It wont generate points at the same rate as a modern uptempo 4-out offense. We see it already with the second unit.

If Toppin ever gets to play 35 minutes a game, we are going to hear 'FREE OBI' chants in the garden and it won't be a good look for Julius.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#149 » by NYKat » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:43 am

2010 wrote:
The Knick’ starting five is under the gun — holding the worst plus-minus in the league as a quintet. The minus-76 would rank as worst in NBA history if the season ended after 13 games.


“We had a great practice today, a great practice,” Rose said.

In an attempt to juice the quintet of Kemba Walker, Evan Fournier, RJ Barrett, Julius Randle and Mitchell Robinson, Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau installed a little more play structure and less freelancing on Sunday. That freelancing mode may have resulted in an offense Fournier referred to as “stagnant.”


“The first group, they were doing a lot of play sets, moving the ball from one side to another, finding each other, talking,” Rose said. “That’s what we need. Especially on the road in the hostile environment where it’s hard. You got to be able to communicate and talk and be on the same page. That’s what we need.”

Thibodeau sounded like he is close, but not quite ready, to making a move if things don’t improve with the starting five…


“You want to make sure there’s a large enough sample size to tell you something,” Thibodeau said. “The first thing you ask [is] are we playing hard enough and executing properly? If what we’re doing is not good enough, that’s when you change.”

When asked directly by The Post if he’s mulling a lineup change for Monday’s game, Thibodeau said “no” but then added he had “a right to change my mind” in the near future.


The lack of chemistry between Walker and Randle, who both need the ball, is becoming evident.

“It’s easy to nitpick,” Thibodeau said. “In all fairness to Julius and Kemba, because of who they are, they probably get the brunt of what’s going on. The reality is we have to play well together as a group. It’s not one, two guys. We can say new guys, old guys. We can say first unit, second unit. We can say Kemba. The whole thing is we need our team as everyone together. That’s where the focus has to lie.”


The second unit plays with more speed with Rose pushing the ball more than Walker and Obi Toppin is a racehorse off the bench. In preseason, Thibodeau talked about picking up the pace for 48 minutes.

“We have to figure things out how we’re going to play,” Rose said unsolicited. “Are we going to run and be a fast-paced team or going to be a half-court team. It’s still early in the year to figure it out.”


https://nypost.com/2021/11/14/tom-thibodeau-makes-adjustments-to-fix-knicks-offense/






I make it a point now to compare the written articles to actual video, just to see if/when/how media narratives are created.

I think Derrick Rose is a reporters dream, he is really honest and brings you behind the curtain.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#150 » by NYKat » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:47 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:Are people not seeing Thibs' lack of structured offence is at the root of this. He allows Randle to play this way. He doesn't create basic sets for the players but allows freelancing.

Rose is just the dominant player on the bench, but IQ plays with the same lack of structure Randle does and Burks does as well.

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Agreed…

Randle seems to welcome accountability, so I put a lot of the onus on coach to keep him line and crack down on him when he starts to exhibit bad habits
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#151 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:13 pm

Glad we threw so much money at Randle who finds it hard to adjust to playing with a normal competent PG, or at least the budget washed version the Knicks got.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#152 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:15 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:Are people not seeing Thibs' lack of structured offence is at the root of this. He allows Randle to play this way. He doesn't create basic sets for the players but allows freelancing.

Rose is just the dominant player on the bench, but IQ plays with the same lack of structure Randle does and Burks does as well.

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It's weird because I always thought the Bulls offense of Thibs had a decent amount of structure and plays they ran. I mean, all pro teams will have guys doing some amount of read and react but maybe that's incorrect.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#153 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:37 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Are people not seeing Thibs' lack of structured offence is at the root of this. He allows Randle to play this way. He doesn't create basic sets for the players but allows freelancing.

Rose is just the dominant player on the bench, but IQ plays with the same lack of structure Randle does and Burks does as well.

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It's weird because I always thought the Bulls offense of Thibs had a decent amount of structure and plays they ran. I mean, all pro teams will have guys doing some amount of read and react but maybe that's incorrect.


Noah’s passing was a huge factor. You could give him the ball at the top of the key and he’d find the open man. They were mostly hockey assists, but it freed up the backcourt to go off the ball during a set

It is possible Thibs think Julius can function in a simllar manner. An interesting point made in the threads (don’t remember who) was his assist number mahy mask a reluctance to get the hockey assist. I don’t know if that is precisely true, but you could say when he is going rogue his assists are then mostly due to dumping the ball when defenses converge on him playing ISO which results in him jacking a contested shot, turning it over or getting it to an open man.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#154 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:23 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:Are people not seeing Thibs' lack of structured offence is at the root of this. He allows Randle to play this way. He doesn't create basic sets for the players but allows freelancing.

Rose is just the dominant player on the bench, but IQ plays with the same lack of structure Randle does and Burks does as well.

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It's weird because I always thought the Bulls offense of Thibs had a decent amount of structure and plays they ran. I mean, all pro teams will have guys doing some amount of read and react but maybe that's incorrect.
The Bulls offence was pre-Thibs learning modern offence from the Warriors. Back then he had Rose freelance and Noah create out of the high post until Jimmy got good and then there was friction between Butler and Rose for the ball.

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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#155 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:44 pm

DaGawd wrote:The Knicks fan base is the definition of toxic lol.. turn on you in a second when things don’t go well


Pretty much.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#156 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:45 pm

Julius Randle's biggest weakness is the same weakness that Carmelo Anthony had before Knick fans ran Anthony out of town...he's not Lebron James (or similar caliber player). Just like Patrick Ewing's biggest weakness was that he wasn't Michael Jordan.
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#157 » by iLLmatic860 » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:51 pm

moocow007 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:The Knicks fan base is the definition of toxic lol.. turn on you in a second when things don’t go well


Pretty much.

To be fair a lot of fans weren’t a fan of the Randle signing. He just won a lot of us over in the Covid season. So technically only one out of three seasons I’ve been a fan of Randle
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#158 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:58 pm

iLLmatic860 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:The Knicks fan base is the definition of toxic lol.. turn on you in a second when things don’t go well


Pretty much.

To be fair a lot of fans weren’t a fan of the Randle signing. He just won a lot of us over in the Covid season. So technically only one out of three seasons I’ve been a fan of Randle
So you're really fickle.

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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#159 » by Handledatruth » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:12 pm

moocow007 wrote:Julius Randle's biggest weakness is the same weakness that Carmelo Anthony had before Knick fans ran Anthony out of town...he's not Lebron James (or similar caliber player). Just like Patrick Ewing's biggest weakness was that he wasn't Michael Jordan.


I dont think he is a fraud and voted no on this, but to say he is not Lebron James is an oversimplification. Randle deliberately does things that make it harder to have a good offensive flow and he does this because it is what he's most comfortable with. Couple that with his inconsistent lack of defensive focus when dealing with some of the more potent shooters (mainly three and D wings) and you see issues that are hard to fix. You sick a Deandre Hunter type on him during a playoff series and it becomes difficult to watch. None of this makes him a fraud, but there are bigger holes in his game that are hard to compliment with role players. With Melo and Ewing there were blueprint type of players to put around them for success. What is that for Randle? We sacrificed defense for more scorers and now that seems to be an issue too.
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#160 » by strummer » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:35 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Pretty much.

To be fair a lot of fans weren’t a fan of the Randle signing. He just won a lot of us over in the Covid season. So technically only one out of three seasons I’ve been a fan of Randle
So you're really fickle.

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Randle's performance is fickle, so therefore his support is as well.

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