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Is Juluis Randle a fraud?

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Is Randle A Fraud?

Yes
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67%
No
33
33%
 
Total votes: 101

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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#181 » by iLLmatic860 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:01 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Pretty much.

To be fair a lot of fans weren’t a fan of the Randle signing. He just won a lot of us over in the Covid season. So technically only one out of three seasons I’ve been a fan of Randle
So you're really fickle.

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I’m just loyal to homegrown talent. If hes gonna force dumb shots up, Then I consider that taking shine away from the young guys. To keep it real, I was happy he had a great season last uear because I felt like his trade value went up. I never envisioned Randle a part of our future but if we do find a legit 1st and 2nd option. Then I wouldnt mind

Randle has traits about him that are very likable. Hard worker, family man, his passion for the game. But Randle the basketball player can sure be fristrating to watch. If he can Replicate last years season then I dont mind that version of Randle at all
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#182 » by Zenzibar » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:22 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Guano wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Julius Randle's biggest weakness is the same weakness that Carmelo Anthony had before Knick fans ran Anthony out of town...he's not Lebron James (or similar caliber player). Just like Patrick Ewing's biggest weakness was that he wasn't Michael Jordan.



I think there is truth in this post and the other post that shed light on his actual play being problematic(selfish iso ball with bad effort and weak mentality at times). I think Randle put in the right spot with other really talented players that lift some of the weight off his shoulders can be a key winning player. If RJ turns into Kawhi like I was told he was going to around here it should alleviate some of the burden off Randle.


Yeah at it's core Randle is what he is right? He's a very talented offensive player that you probably don't want to be the no.1 option (and definitely not be CLEARLY the best player) on a top tier team. That's the reality Randle and the Knicks (still) are in. So it's easy to say that Randle should do this or that and the other thing better and be like a superstar player that this team needs. But no one should be expecting that anymore than anyone should have expected Carmelo Anthony to have the same type of impact as if Lebron had decided for NY instead of Miami. And yet fans keep falling into that trap. They look at their best player and expect (rather unrealistically) him to be able to do the things that the other teams best player does. And when he can't, the player sucks and trade him for a wing and a prayer (cause that obviously works).

For Randle to do well you need someone that can get him the ball in more situations where he's already on the move and near the basket. So he can use his terrific offensive feel to get easy shots. The Knicks? They need Randle to handle the ball and run the offense cause...again...they do NOT have anyone that is able to do that consistently. Elfrid Payton was the Knicks starting PG last season. Payton wouldn't even be the backup PG on the majority of the NBA teams. Walker was supposed to be a significant upgrade over Payton and so far he's just been an upgrade (in part cause you can't possibly be less of a starting PG than Elfrid Payton). And yet, fans want the Knicks and Randle to do what again? Let someone else run the offense OR for Randle to be Lebron James or Luka Doncic from an running the offense standpoint? The former is easier said than done. The later is the biggest problem that the Knicks have had for more than 2 decades...they simply have not been able to build a team where more than one star in his prime is on the team. And you simply cannot win in the NBA with just one star UNLESS that star is of a prime time Lebron James caliber player. And even then guys like Lebron and MJ couldn't do it by themselves. So why would anyone expect anything remotely close for Julius Randle?

Again I get fans for being upset. But being upset and blaming Randle for it is unfair. It's the front office's job to bring in talent so that each player is able to be put into best positions to do well. For the Knicks, Randle's "position" has and still is a Lebron James level "position". And that's just nuts cause he's not that type of talent. Which again goes back to every star that the Knicks have had since the 73 Knicks (Bernard King by himself, MRR by himself, Ewing by himself, Starbury by himself, Carmelo by himself and now Randle by himself). Got to be a little realistic here...

It's why I've kept on harping that this team is not enough and IF the plan is to really do something in the playoffs you need to be able to put your cards on the table and make a move for that 2nd star that is in his prime (so no...not Rose and not what we've seen of Walker). Get that top tier guard that can and should be doing the things that Randle so far has been forced to do and let Randle succeed by doing what he's best at doing rather more than what is realistically fair to expect him to be able to do. But instead we get the IHOP waffling where after every good/great win the Knicks don't need nothing and after every bad lost, blow up the team.


I respectfully disagree with the 1 more star theory and I'll tell you why.

Last year Randle was fittingly rewarded for his outstanding play both by the NBA's recognition i.e. MIP, 2nd Team All-Pro, All-Star game. Also by the Team with his new 4 year contract.
The problem began as soon as the Team made the playoffs. It appears to me that Randle shouldered the responsibility of the Teams success in the playoffs and herein lies the problem.

Like any good team, the Hawks analytics probably showed that Randle either passes better moving right or left and provided him no outlets off a double teams while he moved in that particular direction. Stay with me here.

Randle feeling the heat to produce, became a Carmelo clone, same mamba mentality, that win or lose the fate rest with him. Many superstars have this makeup. But since Randle is not on this level, it isolated his teammates and they failed.

Fast forward to this season, the brass upgraded the offense and we have seen vast improvements with our young core. However, Randle has found it difficult to let this "I must carry the Team" mentality.

As he showed last night, if the ball is a "hot potato" and moves easily, he Randle can still get his shots. But the lingering on the perimeter to just shoot the ball, has affected RJ, Evan and Walker to a degree.

What I recommend is that Thibs lets Rose and Randle play more since it appears that Randle defers to Rose. Whatever time they can share on the court together will help Randle relax with that sht and allow others to touch the ball.

You ain't getting a better player than DRose, without gutting this nice team of their youth. Personally, I'm not with it.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#183 » by HEZI » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:17 pm

moocow007 wrote:
HEZI wrote:Do people really want to make that Melo comp because it only helps the case against Randle.

Melo went from being the main guy in NY to 3rd banana and failing in OKC to Houston and failing to out the league to now accepting vet min deals to come off the bench. And not only that but he had to do what folks in NY said he had to do which was lose weight and become more catch and shoot and defer to others.

So if you really want to make that comp then yes it’s a good one and we have every right to be on Randles case because how we were right about Melo we are right about Randle


You just described any top tier player that failed to win anything all by himself. Charles Barkley...failure and a bum. Heck by this analogy John Stockton and Karl Malone...even though they had each other...are failures and bums. And "we" were not even on the same page when it comes to Anthony so saying that makes no sense and assumptions that isn't valid. You realize that the consistently best player Carmelo Anthony had during his Knicks tenure was JR Smith right? JR Smith...this guy...

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Lets list names that Carmelo and Randle failed to win with

Damian Lillard
CJ McCollum
Russell Westbrook
Paul George
Chauncy Billups
Allen Iverson
Kenyon Martin
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Kristaps Porzingis
Anthony Davis
Jrue Holiday
Rajon Rondo

:lol:
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D'Angelo Russell/Terry Rozier
Andrew Wiggins/Sterling Brown/Damion Lee
Bruce Brown/Doug McDermott/David Nwaba
Draymond Green/Oshae Brissett/Naji Marshall
KAT/Christian Wood/Mike Muscala
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#184 » by Luv those Knicks » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:04 am

Sark wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:Imagine thinking a guy who can get you 21/10/5 not any given night a fraud. Stay sane RealGM lmao

I don’t understand why getting that guy well below is bad? He’s a borderline elite player on offense (that is inconsistent) and is finally not a sieve on D. I’m confused as to why he’s a fraud. He’s putting up nearly identical numbers.

Anyone who thought Randle was one of the 20 best guys in the league was obviously making themselves to be the fool.

Anywhere in that 20-30 range is where he would fit realistically.

If anyone has to pick it up, it’s RJ.

I dont think anybody had him as a top 20 player lmao



A lot of people did, considering that he was 2nd Team All NBA last year.


He was very close to a top 20 player last season, but not in the playoffs, obviously. A top 20 player - one season is very different than who he is now or for the remainder of his contract.

On the one hand, the Knicks have put together a pretty good team. On the other hand, it's hard to build a legit contender when our best player is Julius Randle. It's tough to see how they move forward from here, but we've seen worse. This is one of the better Knicks teams and better overall setups contract wise and draftpick wise that we've had in a long time.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#185 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:31 am

I think the hate that Stephon Randlebury gets is unfair
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#186 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:32 am

I was hyped about Randle last year, but he feels more like the good player that smart teams flip into a better player if they can do it at the top of his value. Which the Knicks, of course, didn't do.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle is a fraud? 

Post#187 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:43 am

Rasho Brezec wrote:Can't blame a 3rd option for being asked to play 1st option and failing.


What option was he last year on the knicks? He had a pretty good year that year. Didn't the knicks go out and get some talent this offseason as well?
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#188 » by iLLmatic860 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:17 am

I want Randle off this team as soon as possible
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#189 » by RHODEY » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:43 am

iLLmatic860 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:To be fair a lot of fans weren’t a fan of the Randle signing. He just won a lot of us over in the Covid season. So technically only one out of three seasons I’ve been a fan of Randle
So you're really fickle.

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I’m just loyal to homegrown talent. If hes gonna force dumb shots up, Then I consider that taking shine away from the young guys. To keep it real, I was happy he had a great season last uear because I felt like his trade value went up. I never envisioned Randle a part of our future but if we do find a legit 1st and 2nd option. Then I wouldnt mind

Randle has traits about him that are very likable. Hard worker, family man, his passion for the game. But Randle the basketball player can sure be fristrating to watch. If he can Replicate last years season then I dont mind that version of Randle at all


Im not seeing the "hard worker" (or the passion) this season after he's secured the bag.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#190 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:59 am

thebuzzardman wrote:I was hyped about Randle last year, but he feels more like the good player that smart teams flip into a better player if they can do it at the top of his value. Which the Knicks, of course, didn't do.


Trade him to the Cape Cod Cranberry Growers Association. Crandle Juice or Crandies seems like a good bet
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#191 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:53 am

Let’s see what happens tomorrow night.
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#192 » by iLLmatic860 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:17 pm

RHODEY wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:So you're really fickle.

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I’m just loyal to homegrown talent. If hes gonna force dumb shots up, Then I consider that taking shine away from the young guys. To keep it real, I was happy he had a great season last uear because I felt like his trade value went up. I never envisioned Randle a part of our future but if we do find a legit 1st and 2nd option. Then I wouldnt mind

Randle has traits about him that are very likable. Hard worker, family man, his passion for the game. But Randle the basketball player can sure be fristrating to watch. If he can Replicate last years season then I dont mind that version of Randle at all


Im not seeing the "hard worker" (or the passion) this season after he's secured the bag.

Sadly I agree. He’s becoming one of my most hated Knicks of all time
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Re: Juluis Randle is a fraud 

Post#193 » by BKlutch » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:25 pm

iLLmatic860 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
iLLmatic860 wrote:I’m just loyal to homegrown talent. If hes gonna force dumb shots up, Then I consider that taking shine away from the young guys. To keep it real, I was happy he had a great season last uear because I felt like his trade value went up. I never envisioned Randle a part of our future but if we do find a legit 1st and 2nd option. Then I wouldnt mind

Randle has traits about him that are very likable. Hard worker, family man, his passion for the game. But Randle the basketball player can sure be fristrating to watch. If he can Replicate last years season then I dont mind that version of Randle at all


Im not seeing the "hard worker" (or the passion) this season after he's secured the bag.

Sadly I agree. He’s becoming one of my most hated Knicks of all time

I saw a team last night that kept on shooting good, open, mostly undefended 3's. And missing almost all of them.

Although everybody says we have no coach during the game, I can't imagine the worst coach not telling the team to give up on taking 3's if nobody's able to hit.

Why is it that Thibs didnt' just tell them to take midrange shots and drive on the hoop? To run PnR after PnR?

We started off last year like shyt and then we emerged with a tough, defensive minded team. This year, we weren't going any further than last year if we played the same. Maybe the team was told to keep on doing what they did so they could get some shots in and start scoring from 3. That didn't work, so later on, we started attacking again. Lo and behold, that opened up the 3 for Burks, the hot hand. Think this all happened with Julius out there crapping up the floor? Think again. He's purposely NOT doing what he did last year to get this team going in terms of offense. He was told to do this, and that's what's happening.

So far, the offense is sputtering. I don't see the coaching staff panicking, just us fans.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#194 » by gavran » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:26 pm

He is Sigmund Freud.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#195 » by RiseOfTheEmpire » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:10 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:My problem with Randle wasn't whether or not he's talented, it's that his game is so ball dominant and when he's off the ball he's actively trying to get it back, he's never cutting off ball, he's rarely setting screens for anyone other than the ball handler etc. He will gravitate towards whoever has the ball and try to set a screen even if they don't call for it, because he wants it back on the catch or on a repost, and when he does that he often brings his defender with him to kill whatever his teammate was thinking of doing. He doesn't pass to keep the offense moving, he passes with the sole purpose of trying to get an assist, it's why he runs so many DHO with Evan (Previously Bullock), and why so many of our shots come late in the clock (5th most frequent in shots coming 4-7 seconds on clock).

You cannot have a great functioning offense with Randle playing the way he plays and other players who need the ball, this year the starting 5 has a 104.9 offensive rating, last year with Payton/Bullock in the starting 5 we had a 109 ORTG, because the offense is so catered to Randle that it goes as he goes, and he's having a down year compared to last year. As bad as Kemba and Fournier are on defense, they are without question better offensive players than Payton and Bullock, yet our offense is even worse with them on the floor because Randle needs the ball. You could swap Randle with Obi in the 2nd unit and their offense would come grinding to a halt because you wouldn't have the movement that Obi brings, no cutting, no passing and the ball would stick to one person. That is just the fundamental problem of having such a ball dominant player who isn't a top 20 talent, you give the type of touches that Randle gets to a superstar, not to him. But, we let that genie out of the bottle and it is what it is at this point.



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It's so frustrating to see people talk, discuss, argue, debate, online, on tv, on the radio, about a myriad of issues but the obvious isn't stated. Most people are just watching the guy dribbling/shooting, so the off the ball stuff goes unnoticed. Randle is atrocious on this team, the way it's built. The eyes aren't deceiving, when he sits, the Knicks offense runs like water. Randle is of the Melo/AI mold, a guy you give the ball to and watch on offense, and go play hard for him on defense because you suck. It's why him and Peyton were buddies, why last year's team was better suited for him, like AI's Sixers. But unfortunately, in a normal season, with crowds, our All Star isn't that dude.

Good to see that at least one damn person sees this. When people show love to the Gallo/Amare team before Carmelo took over, or talk about Linsanity being the best Knicks basketball they've seen since the Ewing era, watch the team play minus Randle. That's what we are clamoring for....just some good, beautiful basketball...which these guys play in spurts, but Randle has to go All Star and **** it up. It sucks extra because we finally have a decent team and system that we have been dying for since the Melo years, just the wrong guy steering the ship again.

He took a back seat during the pre-season, it's why our offense looked so beautiful, free flowing and 3 point oriented. Guys got to where they wanted to go to get their best shot, now, Randle decides who gets a free shot. Ship his ass out, get Zion. Not only because he would fit this squad like a glove, but for the sake of the development of the rest of our young players.

Anybody who thinks Randle is conducive to playing winning basketball consistently, go watch a Suns game. It's disheartening to watch us mimic them, or the Warriors, etc, at times, and then know that our star is going to come in and it's going to come to a halt. The Garden crowd is starting to notice this....listen to them..
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#196 » by TrueWarrior » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:07 pm

The main issue with Julius is simple:

He’s usually either in hero Melo-mode or hes being passive.

Theres very little grey area with him.

Basketball is a simple game at its core. U have 3 options when u get the ball. Shoot, pass, or dribble. Shoot when ur open within range. Pass when somebody else has a better shot, or dribble when u want to take advantage of a mismatch or create a better shot opportunity for urself or somebody else. Move without the basketball also to create better shots. Plays give more structure to this formula but thats the gist of basketball.

Reading and reacting to the defense. This is why Phil Jackson was so big into meditation and mindfulness, because in basketball u cannot play with an ego or force things. If ur a Shaq sometimes u can, but even Shaq passed out of double teams very well and such.

Randle needs to just play basketball. Stop thinking “ok now Im going to take over because Im the man” or “ok now Im going to just pass and get others involved”. It makes him predictable and easy to guard. Hes thinking rather than reacting as Clyde says.

We’ll see if he can figure this out. Last year kinda worked because we just surrounded him with defenders and let him be the man, but that obviously put a cap on the team since hes not MJ.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#197 » by knickstape4ever » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:40 pm

Repeating last year's performance was gonna be tough but I still had high expectations (even drafted him in both my fantasy leagues)

I do wonder what the effect of not having fans had on him. was that the reason he was so good?

I expect him to rebound, but idk about if he'll make it back to last years level

Selling high is something the Knicks never do (except w/ Mook), but maybe it would've been best to do so. this team looks like it's probably a 7/8 seed, which is a tough place to be in the NBA, but I'm still hoping they win: they need to because it's the path they committed themselves to
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#198 » by Ray Williams » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm

Randle is a poor man’s Al Harrington.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#199 » by moocow007 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:50 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Guano wrote:

I think there is truth in this post and the other post that shed light on his actual play being problematic(selfish iso ball with bad effort and weak mentality at times). I think Randle put in the right spot with other really talented players that lift some of the weight off his shoulders can be a key winning player. If RJ turns into Kawhi like I was told he was going to around here it should alleviate some of the burden off Randle.


Yeah at it's core Randle is what he is right? He's a very talented offensive player that you probably don't want to be the no.1 option (and definitely not be CLEARLY the best player) on a top tier team. That's the reality Randle and the Knicks (still) are in. So it's easy to say that Randle should do this or that and the other thing better and be like a superstar player that this team needs. But no one should be expecting that anymore than anyone should have expected Carmelo Anthony to have the same type of impact as if Lebron had decided for NY instead of Miami. And yet fans keep falling into that trap. They look at their best player and expect (rather unrealistically) him to be able to do the things that the other teams best player does. And when he can't, the player sucks and trade him for a wing and a prayer (cause that obviously works).

For Randle to do well you need someone that can get him the ball in more situations where he's already on the move and near the basket. So he can use his terrific offensive feel to get easy shots. The Knicks? They need Randle to handle the ball and run the offense cause...again...they do NOT have anyone that is able to do that consistently. Elfrid Payton was the Knicks starting PG last season. Payton wouldn't even be the backup PG on the majority of the NBA teams. Walker was supposed to be a significant upgrade over Payton and so far he's just been an upgrade (in part cause you can't possibly be less of a starting PG than Elfrid Payton). And yet, fans want the Knicks and Randle to do what again? Let someone else run the offense OR for Randle to be Lebron James or Luka Doncic from an running the offense standpoint? The former is easier said than done. The later is the biggest problem that the Knicks have had for more than 2 decades...they simply have not been able to build a team where more than one star in his prime is on the team. And you simply cannot win in the NBA with just one star UNLESS that star is of a prime time Lebron James caliber player. And even then guys like Lebron and MJ couldn't do it by themselves. So why would anyone expect anything remotely close for Julius Randle?

Again I get fans for being upset. But being upset and blaming Randle for it is unfair. It's the front office's job to bring in talent so that each player is able to be put into best positions to do well. For the Knicks, Randle's "position" has and still is a Lebron James level "position". And that's just nuts cause he's not that type of talent. Which again goes back to every star that the Knicks have had since the 73 Knicks (Bernard King by himself, MRR by himself, Ewing by himself, Starbury by himself, Carmelo by himself and now Randle by himself). Got to be a little realistic here...

It's why I've kept on harping that this team is not enough and IF the plan is to really do something in the playoffs you need to be able to put your cards on the table and make a move for that 2nd star that is in his prime (so no...not Rose and not what we've seen of Walker). Get that top tier guard that can and should be doing the things that Randle so far has been forced to do and let Randle succeed by doing what he's best at doing rather more than what is realistically fair to expect him to be able to do. But instead we get the IHOP waffling where after every good/great win the Knicks don't need nothing and after every bad lost, blow up the team.


I respectfully disagree with the 1 more star theory and I'll tell you why.

Last year Randle was fittingly rewarded for his outstanding play both by the NBA's recognition i.e. MIP, 2nd Team All-Pro, All-Star game. Also by the Team with his new 4 year contract.
The problem began as soon as the Team made the playoffs. It appears to me that Randle shouldered the responsibility of the Teams success in the playoffs and herein lies the problem.

Like any good team, the Hawks analytics probably showed that Randle either passes better moving right or left and provided him no outlets off a double teams while he moved in that particular direction. Stay with me here.


I think you're overthinking things trying to find a nugget that somehow uniquely implies that had the Knicks had another player of similar level other than Randle that things would have been different. They asked Nate McMillan how he planned to stop the Knicks (this was with the Knicks looking like the clear best bet to win the series heading in). McMillan looked at the camera, shrugged his shoulder and in a deadpan manner said "uh...stop Julius Randle?".

Reality is the Knicks had one player that had superior talent to his position (sad but true). They had one player that essentially carried them through the regular season. Everyone and their mom knew that. The Knicks had, at every other position, guys that performed above or well above their expectations (talent set, historical performance, reasonable expectations, etc.). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to stop the Knicks. Nate McMillan, being a veteran NBA player and long time coach knows that the playoffs is a whole different animal from the regular season and that players that played beyond their abilities (everyone else on the Knicks more so than Randle TBQH) that it's a whole lot harder come playoff time. So you go at the guy that would most reasonably be able to replicate the regular season performance (Randle, not anyone else on the team) with pretty much everything you got and dare the other guys to beat you.

McMillan did that and the Knicks (not just Randle) collapsed. Again, Randle wasn't the only one that collapsed even though that's what the popular narrative some folks appear to be trying to spin here. The entire team collapsed (and if you don't buy that then that tells you how bad the rest of the team was if, without a very good but not great player like Randle, they weren't able to do anything). Randle just so happened to be the lead domino and the only domino that McMillan tipped.

Randle feeling the heat to produce, became a Carmelo clone, same mamba mentality, that win or lose the fate rest with him. Many superstars have this makeup. But since Randle is not on this level, it isolated his teammates and they failed.


The Knicks without Randle wouldn't have even been anywhere near the playoffs last season.

So to imply that his teammates would have done anything other than embarrass themselves like Randle did just doesn't make sense. And yet folks still seem to want to push that narrative that had Randle passed more and gotten his teammates involved that they would have had a chance against the far more talented and mismatch nightmare that was the Hawks (who also was heading into the playoffs on a steam roller). The Knicks one chance was the same one that lead them to even what they did in the regular season...Randle being able to carry the load. He didn't. Once that happened the Knicks had no shot at all.

The Knicks last season without Randle was the absolute least talented team in the NBA. You need talent to win no matter how hard we want to believe otherwise.

Fast forward to this season, the brass upgraded the offense and we have seen vast improvements with our young core. However, Randle has found it difficult to let this "I must carry the Team" mentality.


The brass upgraded with what? A potentially shot Kemba Walker and a good tertiary offensive player in Evan Fournier who has looked like **** on both ends of the floor? And you want to blame Randle for that?

As he showed last night, if the ball is a "hot potato" and moves easily, he Randle can still get his shots. But the lingering on the perimeter to just shoot the ball, has affected RJ, Evan and Walker to a degree.


Walker and Fournier have been in the league long enough to not be babies. RJ's biggest personality characteristic that says he should be able to develop into a fine player is his confidence and ability to shrug off the negatives. To again, as with Carmelo Anthony, that these other seasoned and/or proven professional athletes would so willingly cowtail to a guy that is clearly not Lebron James level is way out there. I know you guys don't see it this way but that's what it is. Just think about it objectively here.

The notion that any one player can so negatively impact every other player WHILE also being allowed to go nuts by not just any head coach but a head coach like Tom Thibodeau is nuts. The notion that Randle doing what he's doing is actually hindering other players like Walker and Fournier is silly cause, once again, he is NOT Lebron James and does not wield the type of clout that Lebron like players get from teammates. So unless we're implying that Randle is threatening the other players and Thibs with physical violence (cause he obviously is bigger than them) the narrative that Randle (like Anthony) is doing anything more than simply just not enough (because they're forcing things trying to do their best with very little help) for what a team like this needs is again way out there.

If we actually try to accept that Randle is a very talented but ultimately limited player and not the super star caliber player (I agree, do you?) that this team needs then and only then maybe we can realize that Randle's play so far this season has been regular **** instead of some sort of catastrophic **** folks are making it out to be. Fans are making Randle the escapegoat here when the escapegoat should be (the same one it's been for 20+ years)...the front office.

So yes, absolutely, Randle has looked like crap. Why? Maybe he's shell shocked from the Hawks series still. Maybe it's because other teams (the better teams in the NBA) have been reading Nate McMillan's handbook on "how to stop a talented but not superstar talented player on a low talent team with a predictable offense and win games"? It's really not that hard to figure out what the Knicks do offensively and how to stop them. I know fans want to believe that somehow that if they "simply" just replace Randle or get rid of Randle that things will be rosey. They won't. Things will suck cause the rest of the team is not talented.

That's why we keep going through this same routine. Knicks front office gets one very talented player (not superstar talent) and can't add any more significant talent, try to win even though they should know better and then when they can't (which should be to no one's surprise and yet it apparently still is) fans turn on the defacto most talented but not superstar talented player. Rinse, repeat.

What I recommend is that Thibs lets Rose and Randle play more since it appears that Randle defers to Rose. Whatever time they can share on the court together will help Randle relax with that sht and allow others to touch the ball.


Problem with that is Rose can't barely play 25 minutes and looks dead legged every other game so far this season. And we already see that Walker can't play any game of a back-to-back and has no bounce in his game. Those things are not Randle's fault and it's nothing he can help with. Rose is already loaded to the max with his role and needs coming off the bench with the minutes he can manage. Why? Cause they don't have any alternatives to what they need Rose for. So to try to get Rose more involved is just simply not realistic.

Same with Walker. There's a reason why the Celtics, who rarely pass up on talent, were so willingly to give such a talented player like Walker money to go away. Folks can say chemistry all they want but Danny Ainge has never let talent go unless that talent was shot (see Isaiah Thomas). Ainge being so eager to buyout Walker was a red flag that I mentioned when everything was happening. I was also hoping for the best, but it's not unlikely that the Celtics (who also apparently had intel as early as 2017 that Isaiah Thomas' hips were degrading and would put his future in doubt...Celtics traded Thomas to the Cavs in 2018) knew the deal with Walker (as in he's shot).

Again, it's not about deferring. It's about talent. Not talent that was (Rose and Walker) or talent that may become (RJ and any of the other young guys), but talent here and now (which is very very little).

You ain't getting a better player than DRose, without gutting this nice team of their youth. Personally, I'm not with it.


Let's be very honest here, the Knicks youth aren't all that nice...compared to how nice the other teams youth are. So not being with it why? Because you like youth of any sort? Wing and a prayer that somehow one or maybe more of those guys will turn out to be a solid player similar to what you can sign in free agency?

IF they have a chance at adding a top tier talent then they should consider it IMO. The young talent the Knicks have is honestly not projected to be top tier NBA talent down the road (that's IMHO). And if you get a chance to spin quantity for quality you do it. But if there isn't anything available and the take is that the Knicks FO doesn't feel like they can do anything to improve then sure, tank away is another option.
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Re: Is Juluis Randle a fraud? 

Post#200 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 pm

Ray Williams wrote:Randle is a poor man’s Al Harrington.


His van says “Free Randy”
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