spree8 wrote:E-Balla wrote:spree8 wrote:
This has been going on since we traded Ewing… one n done, new lotto odds, etc are no excuse for 20+ years of never truly trying this route.
I know times have changed n all, so current day it may be a bit different, but it’s still a reliable method. We just somehow always seem to fuq it up and end up right outside where we should’ve been by not fully committing to a rebuild.
02’ we pass on Amare and trade the pick for McDyess.
We were garbage in 03’… with a historic class, I remember being heated for still not embracing the rebuild n going full throttle to the top of the lotto… instead we ended up just outside of it and drafted Mike Sweetney.
05’ we traded our soul for Marbury the previous year and we ended up still being hot garbage because we had nothing outside of him… genius plan. We land the 8th pick… just 4 spots away from Cp3.
Same in 08’ with Steph… hiring a coach like D’Antoni at that point was premature. The wins he got us cost us a top player of all time.
15’ we lost a coin flip to Minny who got Towns… the 2 out of 3 meaningless wins we just had to get at the very end of the season instead of pulling the plug and securing that #1 spot… oh joy.
20’ fired a coach who was a perfect tank commander and promoted his assistant who ended up having twice the win record… lost a chance at LaMelo or Edwards there (looking at the records of the teams who landed them).
21’ We hire Thibs during a year we should’ve kept rebuilding.. surely that cost us a top pick in this draft. I’d say that’s more important than securing a coach like Thibs who is far from perfect.
Can’t forget all the years we traded our picks for trash only for them to land at the top of the lotto and get other teams perennial All-Stars and DPOY’s.
We’ve been so close to landing what we needed so many times, yet bad luck or whatever you wanna call it, has reared its ugly head and ruined it.
Regarding listing old teams that have won titles by getting their first superstar via the draft….
Warriors- drafted Steph 7th, then Klay n Dray
Cavs- drafted Kyrie #1, signed Lebron who they drafted initially @ #1, and traded their #1 pick for the 3rd star
Spurs- drafted Duncan #1, Kawhi 15th, DRob #1
Heat- drafted Wade #5, without him, Shaq, Lebron, and Bosh would’ve never came.
Mavs, Lakers, and Celtics all drafted Dirk (9th-foreign players weren’t looked at the same), Kobe (13th- high school), and Pierce (10th-projected higher) outside of the top of the lotto, but the point is that these franchises got their superstars in the draft (still near the top, and could’ve went higher if not for the times/era) and the rest followed.
The teams listed above are like 95% of the championship teams in the last 20 years.
It’s rare you get a superstar to come to an empty team. Lebron to LA doesn’t happen every day. The draft is far more likely to get you what you need.
You said Steph at 7 then Klay and Dray like Klay and Dray weren't later picks. Neither guy was top 10 iirc.
Cleveland also got LeBron in the FA and traded for Kevin Love their 3rd star.
With star movement maximized in the league the best position to be in is to have a lot of young assets you can trade, an overachieving coach, and a bunch of decent role players. Basically do what the Clippers and Nets did.
I said Steph at 7 because my main point is that the best way to get your superstar is the top of the draft. Getting Klay or your #2 at 11 is fine, but it’s rare to get your #1 outside the top 10.
Cleveland drafted Lebron #1 btw. Without that, he wouldn’t have went back there later on. They also drafted Kyrie #1, and used another #1 pick to trade for KLove. Without those 3 #1 picks, they wouldn’t have assembled that trio. It’s a testament to how important it is to be at the top.
Trading for our superstar hasn't worked out too well for us in the past either. We were stripped naked with the Melo trade, and we looked like fools with KD n Kyrie. We’re constantly used as leverage in free agency. That’s why I’m saying for NY especially, we need to forgo that route and try for ours at the top of the draft.
Well I think not grabbing KD and Kyrie was a great idea but the reason we ended up looking like fools is no one wants to be on the franchise with the most losses this millennium. Let's work on not being the worst NBA franchise of the 21st century, then maybe we'll start having opportunities to get good players. KAT grew up in Jersey and wants nothing to do with us, that's an issue with the franchise's reputation. Fix the franchise, fix the reputation.
Also Melo wasn't a superstar. Melo has made like 3 All NBA teams in his career? One before NY IIRC. He's an all star. The mistake we make is usually we don't grab tier 1 stars. We pay out the ass for Khris Middleton types and old injury prone guys. It's a new era though and tier 1 stars are demanding trades at least every year. No reason we can't be a competitive team for the next 3-4 years and hope down the line Zion asks out of NO or something like that.