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PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#261 » by GONYK » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:12 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
they could have just waited the one year he still had on his deal to further evaluate if it was just a fluke year. especially after how bad he was in the playoffs.


Yes, no argument there. They could have done that. Perhaps they should have.

I think it's too early to say they've definitely made the wrong decision. That comes down to two things:

1. If Randle can get back to some approximation of his efficiency from last season.
2. If Randle's contract enables or hinders us either in trades or signings due to its cap impact.

But they didn't double down on his extension and sacrifice all flexibility to put the the best team possible around him. They didn't overextend so they could "go for broke" with Randle as the tip of the spear.

They just continued to make improvements where it made sense.


The only improvements look like the two guards they drafted, but none of the signings are good values worth their contracts. IOW, if you want to move Kemba or Fournier or Randle you're eating some of their cost to get it done which usually means throwing in other players or picks


Burks isn't worth his contract? Rose? Noel, when healthy?

Randle and Fournier are underperforming, but the sample size is small. Randle's issue is effort and focus. Fournier's is just missing shots.

Kemba is making $8M. I'm not sure what level of production you expect from that salary. Payton was making $5M and Kemba is definitely better than him.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#262 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:15 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Yes, they extended him for significantly less than the MAX.

What's the alternative? Tanking?

If the Knicks cut Randle the day after the Hawks series, they would still need to put 15 players on the roster.

I don't understand how fielding a team that aims to be competitive with movable deals is synonymous with building around Julius Randle specifically.



You guys keep saying moveable deals, they are not movable until they are in the final year of the deal. The Magic gave Fournier away for 2 seconds, why would any team give up anything significant for him when he's got 2 full seasons left before a team option. The only tradeable players that teams may want are all our young players, even RJ, outside of that who is trading for these guys? The Sixers let Burks walk for nothing.


Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.

The team is built around Randle, them not committing to full 4 year deals doesn't make it any less true. These guys were brought in to help him as our featured player, and saying he took less than the max doesn't mean much when he's not even playing up to his current contract.


Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#263 » by GONYK » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:20 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You guys keep saying moveable deals, they are not movable until they are in the final year of the deal. The Magic gave Fournier away for 2 seconds, why would any team give up anything significant for him when he's got 2 full seasons left before a team option. The only tradeable players that teams may want are all our young players, even RJ, outside of that who is trading for these guys? The Sixers let Burks walk for nothing.


Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.

The team is built around Randle, them not committing to full 4 year deals doesn't make it any less true. These guys were brought in to help him as our featured player, and saying he took less than the max doesn't mean much when he's not even playing up to his current contract.


Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?


You're focused on Randle. My question is broader than that. I'm speaking more to the 3 year vision of the FO.

But to answer your question, they didn't build a competitive team around Randle, IMO. They built a team designed to be competitive. Randle is just one of the players on it.

If they wanted to build around Randle and maximize the window with him, there were other more expensive options on the table this summer that they chose not to pursue.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#264 » by duetta » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:20 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:Randle can't play with fans in the building. It was obvious last year. How he plays now is just who he is. This team needs another lockdown to have a chance of being good.


I think this is an assertion that could prove accurate. Not everybody can handle the attention and pressure.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#265 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:43 pm

Randle, Kemba and RJ
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#266 » by knicksNOTslick » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:47 pm

duetta wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:Randle can't play with fans in the building. It was obvious last year. How he plays now is just who he is. This team needs another lockdown to have a chance of being good.


I think this is an assertion that could prove accurate. Not everybody can handle the attention and pressure.

Randle misses key free throws in pressure situations. He definitely lets the moment get to him.

But that's something that can be fixed. He can get used to the pressure here and how he responds to adversity during this season is key.

You have to understand, Randle didn't make the playoffs til last year so what big games has he really played up to that point.

People here speak in too much absolutes like players can't get better or get used to pressure. Randle can still get better especially with more experience. He does need to get others involved though and not force things just like last game. He played well I thought despite the shooting struggles.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#267 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:53 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.



Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?


You're focused on Randle. My question is broader than that. I'm speaking more to the 3 year vision of the FO.

But to answer your question, they didn't build a competitive team around Randle, IMO. They built a team designed to be competitive. Randle is just one of the players on it.

If they wanted to build around Randle and maximize the window with him, there were other more expensive options on the table this summer that they chose not to pursue.


I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#268 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:55 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You guys keep saying moveable deals, they are not movable until they are in the final year of the deal. The Magic gave Fournier away for 2 seconds, why would any team give up anything significant for him when he's got 2 full seasons left before a team option. The only tradeable players that teams may want are all our young players, even RJ, outside of that who is trading for these guys? The Sixers let Burks walk for nothing.


Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.

The team is built around Randle, them not committing to full 4 year deals doesn't make it any less true. These guys were brought in to help him as our featured player, and saying he took less than the max doesn't mean much when he's not even playing up to his current contract.


Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?


agreed. he's easily moveable two years from now because every expiring is. he's basically the new courtney lee ,who everyone thought was a great deal too, and then had to get attached to a much better player to be moved.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#269 » by GONYK » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:55 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?


You're focused on Randle. My question is broader than that. I'm speaking more to the 3 year vision of the FO.

But to answer your question, they didn't build a competitive team around Randle, IMO. They built a team designed to be competitive. Randle is just one of the players on it.

If they wanted to build around Randle and maximize the window with him, there were other more expensive options on the table this summer that they chose not to pursue.


I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.


Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.

We both agree that they didn't think they were competing for a ring with this team
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#270 » by TheGreenArrow » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Read on Twitter


Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#271 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:01 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
You're focused on Randle. My question is broader than that. I'm speaking more to the 3 year vision of the FO.

But to answer your question, they didn't build a competitive team around Randle, IMO. They built a team designed to be competitive. Randle is just one of the players on it.

If they wanted to build around Randle and maximize the window with him, there were other more expensive options on the table this summer that they chose not to pursue.


I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.


Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.



Come on man :lol:

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This is the most played starting lineup, including two of our new "big" acquisitions and it's statistically the worst lineup in the NBA that has played real minutes. And Thibs is starting them now because the FO doesn't want to admit it was wrong.

I'd be shocked if this team makes the playoffs, the Bucks, Celtics and Hawks are turning it around, and the Sixers will be fine once Embiid comes back.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#272 » by GONYK » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:06 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.


Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.



Come on man :lol:

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This is the most played starting lineup, including two of our new "big" acquisitions and it's statistically the worst lineup in the NBA that has played real minutes. And Thibs is starting them now because the FO doesn't want to admit it was wrong.

I'd be shocked if this team makes the playoffs, the Bucks, Celtics and Hawks are turning it around, and the Sixers will be fine once Embiid comes back.


This is a world where players can't shoot better, Thibs doesn't make any adjustments, and no potential roster tinkering is possible?

You want to call the time of death on this season, go for it. I won't argue with your POV on that front.

I'm not denying that there are dire warning lights every minute the starters are on the floor. That unit kind of disgusts me, TBH. I just think it's a little early to say this is all we'll ever be. We started poorly last year too and adjusted.

Like I said before, this all comes down to how much you trust Thibs to figure things out.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#273 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:13 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.



Come on man :lol:

Image



This is the most played starting lineup, including two of our new "big" acquisitions and it's statistically the worst lineup in the NBA that has played real minutes. And Thibs is starting them now because the FO doesn't want to admit it was wrong.

I'd be shocked if this team makes the playoffs, the Bucks, Celtics and Hawks are turning it around, and the Sixers will be fine once Embiid comes back.


This is a world where players can't shoot better, Thibs doesn't make any adjustments, and no potential roster tinkering is possible?

You want to call the time of death on this season, go for it. I won't argue with your POV on that front.

I'm not denying that there are dire warning lights every minute the starters are on the floor. That unit kind of disgusts me, TBH. I just think it's a little early to say this is all we'll ever be. We started poorly last year too and adjusted.

Like I said before, this all comes down to how much you trust Thibs to figure things out.



Thibs rarely makes adjustments, we talking about the same guy that started Payton last year? He's still playing this lineup almost 20 game sin when it clearly isn't working. Any other coach would have mothballed this lineup by now, which means either he's being pressured to play it or he doesn't use analytics.

Last year was a unique season in which there were no fans for 90% of it, and teams were missing players pretty regularly. I don't put a lot of stock into last year when the East has definitely improved.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#274 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:14 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.



Come on man :lol:

Image



This is the most played starting lineup, including two of our new "big" acquisitions and it's statistically the worst lineup in the NBA that has played real minutes. And Thibs is starting them now because the FO doesn't want to admit it was wrong.

I'd be shocked if this team makes the playoffs, the Bucks, Celtics and Hawks are turning it around, and the Sixers will be fine once Embiid comes back.


This is a world where players can't shoot better, Thibs doesn't make any adjustments, and no potential roster tinkering is possible?

You want to call the time of death on this season, go for it. I won't argue with your POV on that front.

I'm not denying that there are dire warning lights every minute the starters are on the floor. That unit kind of disgusts me, TBH. I just think it's a little early to say this is all we'll ever be. We started poorly last year too and adjusted.

Like I said before, this all comes down to how much you trust Thibs to figure things out.


i don't really think thibs has the power to bench kemba or fournier now. not this early. i'm sure leon and company want him to give their new backcourt some more time before giving up on it. not sure either player, or their agents, will take a benching well either. i'm sure both were promised starting roles. but looking at the schedule coming up and the rest of the east, one really bad month and it'll probably be too late for any adjustments to mean anything.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#275 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:14 pm

GONYK wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Yes, no argument there. They could have done that. Perhaps they should have.

I think it's too early to say they've definitely made the wrong decision. That comes down to two things:

1. If Randle can get back to some approximation of his efficiency from last season.
2. If Randle's contract enables or hinders us either in trades or signings due to its cap impact.

But they didn't double down on his extension and sacrifice all flexibility to put the the best team possible around him. They didn't overextend so they could "go for broke" with Randle as the tip of the spear.

They just continued to make improvements where it made sense.


The only improvements look like the two guards they drafted, but none of the signings are good values worth their contracts. IOW, if you want to move Kemba or Fournier or Randle you're eating some of their cost to get it done which usually means throwing in other players or picks


Burks isn't worth his contract? Rose? Noel, when healthy?

Randle and Fournier are underperforming, but the sample size is small. Randle's issue is effort and focus. Fournier's is just missing shots.

Kemba is making $8M. I'm not sure what level of production you expect from that salary. Payton was making $5M and Kemba is definitely better than him.


You missed my other post. I said keep Rose and Burks specifically unless they are absolutely required to grease the trade wheels.

Randle's issue is you can't build around him and he is phoning it in on defense. He got his bag and it sure looks like it.

I've also said in other posts Fournier can utilized. If not, trade him too.

Kemba is a bench player. But $8M is still cap space. Not sure he can be traded anyway, but it is not as critical to the cap so two years is not a disaster. Still if he can be flipped for something worthwhile I think you do it
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#276 » by BKlutch » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:15 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
You're focused on Randle. My question is broader than that. I'm speaking more to the 3 year vision of the FO.

But to answer your question, they didn't build a competitive team around Randle, IMO. They built a team designed to be competitive. Randle is just one of the players on it.

If they wanted to build around Randle and maximize the window with him, there were other more expensive options on the table this summer that they chose not to pursue.


I'm focused on him because they clearly built this team around him, got players that fit with his skillset, let him run our offense and signed him to the longest current deal on the team since he has the player option. Not sure why this is so hard to admit.


They thought they were building a competitive team, they built the team wrong and it's showing. There's no easy way out of this either.


Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.

We both agree that they didn't think they were competing for a ring with this team


.
.
What you say is only correct if you're trying to be objective. Most on the board right now are either being deeply negative or just feeling panicked that things aren't going well. And some are just enjoying stoking the flames.

Thibs has gone from COY to rancid dogmeat, Julius is worthless, and RJ will never have a shot. Even Fournier, who was consistently a good shooter, can't be in a slump. He's just lost it, and there is no hope for either him or the team to recover. Even Nerlens, who still has hands of stone, is a better offensive player than Mitch, who is weak with an injury prone body because he got his nose smashed. And so on and so on...

Well, this has certainly accomplished 2 things.
1. The end of useful critical analysis
2. One of the shortest PG threads after a loss ever
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My comments will probably get a response that either I don't see how badly the team has played, or I'm a crazed optimist something like NYK Mentality. Although it seems in vogue to see everything in life these days in terms of extremes — all or nothing, awesome or horrible, divine or totally evil — I don't believe kind of perspective is helpful in politics or in sports. So I hope everybody doing this is getting something out of it — feeling less anxiety, the joy of trolling, or even the thrill of making others feel even worse.

I just don't believe the world will come to an end during our next 6 games and I don't believe this grueling schedule means they will finish least in the East. For those who hate what I wrote, well, see you on the other side, my brothers. I have no idea when it will be, but there will be a day when we're all cheering together once again (with the exception, of course, of those few who never enjoyed winning).
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Last season: From 21 to 41 wins!
This season: Add Evan, Kemba, and Mitch, Obi has leveled up, and 3+ rookies!
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#277 » by prophet_of_rage » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:18 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

They gave Randle an extension and put a bunch of players around him, they are committed to him.


Yes, they extended him for significantly less than the MAX.

What's the alternative? Tanking?

If the Knicks cut Randle the day after the Hawks series, they would still need to put 15 players on the roster.

I don't understand how fielding a team that aims to be competitive with movable deals is synonymous with building around Julius Randle specifically.



You guys keep saying moveable deals, they are not movable until they are in the final year of the deal. The Magic gave Fournier away for 2 seconds, why would any team give up anything significant for him when he's got 2 full seasons left before a team option. The only tradeable players that teams may want are all our young players, even RJ, outside of that who is trading for these guys? The Sixers let Burks walk for nothing.

The team is built around Randle, them not committing to full 4 year deals doesn't make it any less true. These guys were brought in to help him as our featured player, and saying he took less than the max doesn't mean much when he's not even playing up to his current contract.
The cap is set to spike again. These contracts will be ridiculously small soon enough.

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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#278 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:21 pm

GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Wrong for what?

It's too early to say they won't make the playoffs. That's really the main goal in the short term in terms of performance.



Come on man :lol:

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This is the most played starting lineup, including two of our new "big" acquisitions and it's statistically the worst lineup in the NBA that has played real minutes. And Thibs is starting them now because the FO doesn't want to admit it was wrong.

I'd be shocked if this team makes the playoffs, the Bucks, Celtics and Hawks are turning it around, and the Sixers will be fine once Embiid comes back.


This is a world where players can't shoot better, Thibs doesn't make any adjustments, and no potential roster tinkering is possible?

You want to call the time of death on this season, go for it. I won't argue with your POV on that front.

I'm not denying that there are dire warning lights every minute the starters are on the floor. That unit kind of disgusts me, TBH. I just think it's a little early to say this is all we'll ever be. We started poorly last year too and adjusted.

Like I said before, this all comes down to how much you trust Thibs to figure things out.


Worst defensive starting unit in NBA history is pretty damning, don't you think?

Thibs has his work cut out for him, that's for sure
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#279 » by Gravy » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:21 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:Randle can't play with fans in the building. It was obvious last year. How he plays now is just who he is. This team needs another lockdown to have a chance of being good.

Most of the team cant play at the Garden they have a much better road record against tougher teams. They might play better against the Bulls on the road than the Rockets at home, its crazy.
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Re: PG: Uplifting Victory! 11/20 

Post#280 » by prophet_of_rage » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:22 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
GONYK wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You guys keep saying moveable deals, they are not movable until they are in the final year of the deal. The Magic gave Fournier away for 2 seconds, why would any team give up anything significant for him when he's got 2 full seasons left before a team option. The only tradeable players that teams may want are all our young players, even RJ, outside of that who is trading for these guys? The Sixers let Burks walk for nothing.


Who said anything about significant? These deals are easy to get off of if we need to, either as a pieces in a larger trade to fill salary or quickly clear cap space.

The Magic getting to move off of Fournier the minute they wanted to, at a similar salary to what he's making now, kind of proves that.

The team is built around Randle, them not committing to full 4 year deals doesn't make it any less true. These guys were brought in to help him as our featured player, and saying he took less than the max doesn't mean much when he's not even playing up to his current contract.


Do you think the Knicks think this is a contending roster with Randle as the alpha? That's really the only question that matters.

If the answer is yes, then sure, they f*cked up.

If the answer is no, which I think it is, then they didn't do anything other than try and be competitive with Julius while they bide their time for a bigger fish to hit the market.

But I'll ask again, what is the alternative? I concede that they could have held off on the extension. That's totally valid. But they probably would have still made all the other moves, because they want to remain competitive.


The Magic were able to dump Fournier because his contract was expiring at the end of the season, it gave the team trading for him a chance to see what he had, and they decided to move on. He has 2 full seasons left on his deal after this one, that is not an easily movable player.


The answer is no, and they should have let him play out this season, there was no reason to lock him up when we did. A shrewd/smart front office doesn't that, especially not after the playoff series he had. Nobody would have faulted the front office for taking a wait and see approach to Randle. The alternative was realizing he had a career year in a contract year and putting him in competition with the lottery pick who plays the same position as him. Do you think he'd be as lazy on defense right now if he weren't locked into a deal and had Obi breathing down his neck?

If your team isn't a contender with Randle, why build a competitive team around him? You're delaying the inevitable. If this season ends with us in the lottery then resigning him was a mistake, right?
What do you think the Knicks goals are?

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